Bob, I value your opinions as a critic, probably too much as I ingest almost all of your videos and reviews. That said, I frequently disagree with your point of view and especially when it comes to Spider-man.
Here, however? I very much enjoyed your opinion and to be honest I'm relieved you feel the way you do, though I'm not sure how I feel about the fact that you haven't read it yet. I'm not sure if that says poor things about your professionalism or the state of story-telling in the industry
First off I'm going to talk about the issue itself. I think it's great. It was a joy to read, watching Spider-Man and Octavius butt their heads intellectually but in reversed body roles, as they pull out all new dirty tricks on each other and attempt to outwit their opponent in a wide-spanning battle of strategy. There is also plenty of opportunity for humourous dialogue that pokes fun at the situation and genuinely touching moments in the form of Peter's memories where we get call backs to some of the best parts of Spider-Lore. Aside from the creepy parts between Ock-Spidey and MJ, which I'll get to in a minute.
But all in all the issue was just damn well-written by Slott as Bob predicted, displaying a masterful grasp of a wide range of characters.
Now, to deal with other things, such as what this pleasant forumite has said;
SilverHammerMan said:
-snip-
This was not a fitting ending for the character as far as I'm concerned, and to see why you need look no further than the recent death of Peter Parker over in Marvel's Ultimate comics. The way Ultimate Peter Parker went out was pure Spider-Man; alone, forsaken and abandoned by all the other superheroes, fighting and winning against his greatest enemies to protect his loved ones even at the cost of his own life. It was dignified, tragic, emotional, and effective. It was a pitch perfect sendoff to the character.
By contrast, here Spider-Man goes out with a whimper, having been outwitted and defeated by the guy who's really only his arch-nemesis when the Green Goblin is unavailable, and dies basically hoping that the guilt trip he downloaded into Ock's head will somehow make a stone cold murderer, a man who months previously tried to kill almost the entire population of the planet in order to be remembered as history's greatest monster, into someone who won't use his stolen body to destroy everything that Peter Parker cares about. Bull. Shit. Peter Parker wouldn't accept that, he wouldn't let that happened, that's like his whole deal, that when the universe shafts him yet again Peter Parker turns around and says "No, fuck YOU!" and keeps fighting because people depend on him. I simply cannot buy that the same Peter Parker from that classic scene in the flooding tunnel where he almost gives up but then pushes himself to the breaking point to save Aunt May, would allow Doc Ock to walk away with the potential that he would hurt Spidey's friends and family. I simply cannot buy it.
-snip-
The whole rape thing. Seriously, it is massively creepy and wrong, and the reaction from Marvel editor Stephen Wacker to the controvesy has been especially disappointing. Wacker essentially said that it wasn't an issue and that people who were offended where looking to be offended, which, no they weren't Stephen, you're just a tone deaf idiot who let rape implications get into your flagship character's book. This isn't even the first time something like this has come up, the Chameleon story that Bob praised in the video featured Chameleon masquerading as Peter and having sex with one of his love interests, before Marvel hastily backtracked and claimed that the two had merely made out after people called them on treating rape by fraud as a joke in their comic. This is a huge deal that speaks volumes about the way that women and the subject of rape are treated in comics.
I mean, for the record I don't think that Marvel and Dan Slott are actually going to go ahead with an MJ/Spider-Ock romance, but even the implication is skeevy, and as KoDOmega mentioned any relationship that the "new" Spidey gets into will be on shaky ethical grounds.
-aaaaand final snip-
Okay so I'm gonna talk about these two issues.
1 - Issue 700 as an end for Spider-Man
2 - Implications of Rape
1 - I completely agree with the point of view being portrayed by several enthusiasts here. Now you can say that issue 700 doesn't end the character in a dignified way or in a way that does him justice and all that malarkey. I take a different standpoint. It just plain doesn't end the character. It fails in that regard. Spider-Man is a fucking freight train of pop culture significance that has been rolling for fifty years now. Fifty. Fucking. Years. You do not simply derail a character like that in such a flippant way as this. That is essentially the problem with writers in the comic industry who think they can sway the direction of these iconic leviathans in the space of their run, as opposed to just working on the small elements.
If issue 700's twist presented itself as a new story arc as opposed to THE END OF SPIDER-MAN it would have been swallowed far better by audiences. It even works better with the idea that Peter Parker is still alive somewhere. That creates story potential for how Pete gets free, and if he does - Is he a better spider-man than Ock, the Superior Spidey? Imagine Peter awakening from a coma in Ock's body months later to find the world in love with the Superior Spider-man. He now has to decide whether or not it's right to want his title back - Is he doing it for the greater good or for self-gain? Hell, Dan Slott could spin that shit into gold.
Everyone is basically ignoring the story potential of Moriarty being in the body of Sherlock here because of terrible attempt to kill Peter Parker.
Wait no, I phrased that poorly. It wasn't terrible, it was weak - Insufficient. Forgettable. This is
not the death of Peter Parker. Crumpled and forgotten in a villain's body? Completely unrecognised by his family and friends? Where is Aunt May falling to pieces? Where are the people he's fought his whole life to protect quaking with rage at his killer? Where is the funeral over-flowing with those who finally, post-humously appreciate this hero? In other words,
where is everything that happened when Ultimate Spider-Man died?
What I'm saying is that this "end" isn't bad, that's not the problem. The premise isn't bad, the writing isn't bad. If it was that simple, that'd be okay. It lacks conviction. I get the idea that Slott wasn't all that dedicated to killing off Peter at all. I've read all of Slott's run and if I know the writer, this is
not how he would approach killing Spider-Man. He would include far more spectacle and make it far more memorable. But he didn't because his agenda was clearly to set up an interesting new story arc rather than toss another plot twist into the "To be retconned" in-pile.
I would almost think that Spidey's "death" was an editorial mandate thrown in to make issue 700 pack a larger punch. In my opinion, Superior Spider-man could be seen as one of the classic Spider-Man storylines, up there with Kraven's Last Hunt, the death of Gwen Stacy, Venom, et cetera - IF it wasn't going to be associated with a flippant and premature "death" for spidey that is so easily going to be rendered undone.
Now, part two.
2 - Rape Implications
Yeah, this was just a poor choice. Beyond poor, it was dumb. Whether or not they actually apply or not is a non-issue. Whether or not Marvel is going to pursue the plot-line of Doc Ock
manipulating MJ or Carlie or anyone into a sexual situation, which assume and hope to God that they won't, it was just a very poor choice to even include the possibility both from a marketing and narrative standpoint.
In terms of a narrative choice? The entire scene between Ock-Spidey and MJ is creepy as all hell. What's more, this is essentially the moment when MJ and Peter's romance is finally fulfilling the promise to be rejuvenated and THAT'S how they decide to do it? With a creepy old super-villain secretly in his body? What?!
I'll be honest, this is how I came into issue 700; I hadn't had a chance to get or read 698 or 699 because I'm so damn cut off from comics. I'd remained spoiler free until then but I had to buy issue 700 because I'm a spidey fan and it's sort of important, so I caught up on the spoilers and just launched into Spidey 700. And holy crap. That's what was waiting for me on the first page? MJ being seduced by Ock through Spider-man's body? Eurgh. It wasn't easy to get me back on board with the idea of the story arc. It is just tonally dissonant with the rest of story arc. This is a story about an
evil super-villain with robotic octopus arms using a golden octobot to swap brains with Spider-Man.
Things that are okay to include with the above premise; Super-villain team ups. Robots. Brightly coloured costumes. Classic Hero/Villain dialogue. Emotional flashbacks & test of character integrity.
Things that are generally not okay to include with the above premise: Curiously specific deals with the Devil and scenes that are suggestive of rape. Seriously.
And from a marketing standpoint it's a bad fucking decision because hello? Joe McNobody who doesn't frequently read comics probably only knows a few things about spider-man. Spider-bite origin, death of Uncle Ben, flamboyant supervillains, red-headed girlfriend. So if it IS your girl to appeal to this guy and get his pocket change, then it's not going to help to further convolute an already over-written and downright confusing romance.
So all-in-all? There are mis-steps here. But curiously, I think these mis-steps lie as a direct result of how the story was packaged. If this was just a story twist with an unknown conclusion it would be getting nothing but praise. But because the numbers lined up, this had to be a big fucking landmark in Spidey-history so everyone was expecting something to redefine/end Spider-man's story which seems to be the third or fourth time something in Marvel has been FOREVER REDEFINED AND CHANGED this week. The best stories, of course, don't have to rely on spectacle or grandiose display to be good or memorable. All they need is a simple, strong premise like a super-villain viewing the world through a superheroes eyes. Unfortunately in this case that story idea has been overwhelmed with trashy, forgettable spectacle that no one is going to appreciate.