The Big Picture: The Devil & Mr. Parker

[ironlordthemad]

I just read the hulk comics because... well... HULK SMASH!
And it also means I don't have to bother with any of the intertangled web of the universes, which is what I think puts others off of the comics. Think about the back story of the marvel universe. Go onto the Marvel Wikia and then search for something you don't know about or just start clicking links. (if you do know marvel then just try and suspend your marvel-ness and look at it like a noob would)
Time yourself and see how long it takes you to get lost.
A shiney cookie goes to the person who lasts longer than 5 minutes.
I did this for three nights straight and still got confused with all the inter-mingling story lines and plots despite reading everything I could see from start to finish.
And its not because its a finely crafted work of art. Its because its a mess.
A well made story is like a spiders web, linking points between strong individual strands.
From my perspective the Marvel universe is like someone grabbed several spiderwebs, layered them one on top of another and rolled them into a ball.
Can you imagine trying to get into that as a new comer? Nearly impossible. The problem with these universes is that they are too big too get into. Too big for their own good.
Its like if I told someone to get into the Forgotten Realms world in DnD.
One of the world's main good guys has 20+ 300+ page novels for himself. Not to mention a few cameos and then there are satellite groups and entirely new works to expand the world.
The reason people favour the movies is because they provide a quick in and out into the world. Enough to entertain them but not enough to confuse them.
Its also the reason why hardcore fanboys hate the movies of the characters they love. They love the small details and intricacies that have to be left out too get the movie to a wider audience without being a three hour epic.

Just my view on all this.

 

[Saarai-fan]

Wow, I thought Bob was going to talk more about the upcoming Spiderman film, that retcon's the past three films, and do some more well deserved bashing to it. Well, hearing him talk about One More Day was ok as well.

But as for One More Day, I agree with a lot of that fans that the whole thing was an ass pull. To be honest, I've kind of gotten used to Peter Parker being married to Mary Jane. Heck, I was hoping that sometime they would have a kid, and we'd see what it would be like for him to be a superhero and a new dad to a kid he had with a hot supermodel (and no, the Spidergirl comic alternate universe doesn't count, as it's not a part of the official Marvel universe and Peter Parker quit the superhero business in that countinuity). If they did that, maybe we'd see some new interesting story decisions and plots. But no, the creators of the comic are so attached to the glory old days of Spiderman being single, having problems with various love interests, and their own personal dislike for MJ despite fans mostly liking her, that they had to retcon the whole marriage thing to make themselves happy. Maybe sometime in the near future, they'll retcon it again and have the two married once more. With a kid on the way and an expy of Quesada being killed in the comic when it happens, or Mephisto posing as an expy of Quesada getting his butt kicked somehow to force him into undoing the whole crap.

 

[MrhalfAwake]

Linkara didn't like this either, and really this was a massive brainfart for both sides IMO

Linakra's a screechy voiced tool, who knows jack shit about anything but pretends to be an expert while hiding behind bad early 90s image comics and free hand outs

 

[Unnamedenemy]

Personally, I despised OMD because it completely reversed the growth of the characters to 20 years ago. If they wanted to end the marriage, here's and idea: Mephisto offers to undo the past, but Peter refuses. Aunt May dies, and true to his character, Peter blames himself and is inconsolable. He feels that his choices have destroyed his and MJ's lives. He becomes distant and eventually pushes MJ out of his life entirely. I'm thinking that then she either leaves him (which is kinda what he's after) or he divorces her in the hope that she can still salvage her life after Tony Stark realizes that they are separated. This would allow Marvel to continue to move the story forward without resorting to the idiotic "magic retcon". Spidey would still have to deal with the consequences of his choices, his relationship with his superhero peers (particularly Stark) wouldn't be just wiped away, and he would get to keep his evolved powers like the organic webs and stingers. Because honestly, spider-man was about to go places it never had before and Quesada decided that would be a bad thing. Moron.

 

[Calvar Draveir]

Well I like Brand new day better than anything else spidey-related in the 200s, so I don't even care. Marvel has done weirder things. Getting Brand new day was worth it, I like peter more now that he doesn't have everything together again.

 

[Necromancer1991]

Linkara didn't like this either, and really this was a massive brainfart for both sides IMO

Linakra's a screechy voiced tool, who knows jack shit about anything but pretends to be an expert while hiding behind bad early 90s image comics and free hand outs

Your point being what exactly, it's not like we pay to watch his videos, and besides he's still entertaining as hell, secondly what does that have to do with this? Really though I mean the whole event is just stupid IMO, I mean hell he actually talks to Aunt May after she dies and she tells him NOT to revive her.

 

[ProtoChimp]

Oh how I fucking LOATHE Joe Quesada, I don't care if I spelt that twat's name wright or wrong.

 

[Ashoten]

Yeah I think it would have been more interesting if Mifisto let Aunt May and Peter remmember everything. So that way Aunt May could commit suicide over the knowledge of what Peter had done for her life. leaving Peter to wallow in self pity just in time for Mifisto to show up and mock and him with Aunt Mays soul. That sounds more like the kind of thing the devil would do.

 

[Warachia]

the big picture had its lens cap on.
Finally one that I could enjoy, here's an interesting bit bob, if you could write something off that was two peoples happiest moments, with no cost to yourself, and a slight gain to them, would you? I know I would. People tend to underplay marriage a lot, just remember that a lot of people DON'T think like you do and many DON'T consider it a ball and chain. I can really see why Mephisto would want to destroy the marriage though.

 

[BlumiereBleck]

Couldn't they just kill him off like CA?

 

[Canadamus Prime]

Wow, I had no idea Mephisto was such a moron. Remind me to make a deal with him sometime.

 

[MrhalfAwake]

Linkara didn't like this either, and really this was a massive brainfart for both sides IMO

Linakra's a screechy voiced tool, who knows jack shit about anything but pretends to be an expert while hiding behind bad early 90s image comics and free hand outs

Your point being what exactly, it's not like we pay to watch his videos, and besides he's still entertaining as hell, secondly what does that have to do with this? Really though I mean the whole event is just stupid IMO, I mean hell he actually talks to Aunt May after she dies and she tells him NOT to revive her.

Id find Hell far more entertaining than someone spout memes and steal other peoples gags

 

[CK76]

The main issue with comics is they lack integrity. Any shift in sales or trends and characters can be killed, brought back or changed to the whim of an editor. It is only a matter of time before any super hero endures a arc or period that is poor. One More Day shows, simply put, that events you read in comics often lack any importance or consequence because "magic" can be used to wipe any slate clean. Why would anyone care about what they're reading when the people producing it don't?

 

[SamElliot'sMustache]

Two things I wanted to say:

1) I wish this video was more than a summary of what happened and the reaction, because I think "One More Day" cuts into a lot of what's wrong with the comics industry. Marvel's collective reaction to the marriage since it's inception has been strange at best, and downright toxic at worst. It's resulted in no less than 3(!!) of the most critically reviled storylines in the character's history (Clone Saga, the Mackie-Byrne run from '99-'00, and One More Day itself), hampered at least two great runs on the character (Paul Jenkins, who had the unfortunate task of cleaning up after Mackie-Byrne, only to get side-swiped a few years later by the runup to One More Day, which ruined J. Michael Strackyzinski's run more directly), and did more long-term damage to the character than just letting the marriage be would have. It's also showed how lazy, possibly emotionally challenged, the editors and most of the writers really are in that they're unable/unwilling to come up with interesting stories based around a married couple (which isn't that hard if you actually get relationships), or at least write a decent story about splitting them up that wasn't convoluted or reeked of editorial gimmickery. Which brings me to...

...2) It's even more telling that when Joe Quesada was asked on Newsarama why, considering his rather public hatred of the marriage, he didn't just simply have a story that ended with Peter and MJ's divorce, he replied, and I quote:

[D]ivorcing them to me sends out completely the wrong message. Imagine you?re a mom and you?re buying little Bobby or little Betty Spidey Adventures or maybe Spidey Loves MJ and you?re watching the news one day and the broadcaster looks right at you and says, ?Spider-Man is getting divorced, more on that after these messages.? Let?s just say that as a parent, I?d be upset by the sound bite, I could only imagine how the rest of the world would feel?.

And also said to CBR:

Sure, divorce is a reality of life, but Peter Parker and Spider-Man are not the types of characters that would do that. Spider-Man is a worldwide icon and is considered one of the good guys, like Superman.

So, let me get this straight, Mr. Quesada: having two adults who may have loved each other at one point, but don't anymore for whatever reason do the responsible thing and end a relationship 'sends the wrong message,' and imply that only 'bad guys' get divorces, but having them make a deal with the Devil is perfectly fine!? Speaking as the son of a woman who has twice divorced, I find this mindset way more offensive than two fictional characters getting a divorce (and I'm agnostic, what do you think fundamentalist Christians would think of this?). In fact, since the Spider-Man comics, to say nothing of Marvel in general, have a history of tackling drugs, politics, racism, the plight of the poor and so many other tough subjects, a divorce would have fit in pretty well with the kind of stories that Marvel used to do well. Marvel editorial's decision to not go there shows them for the toothless hacks they really are.

Personally I blame Civil War, but then again it and House of M pretty much undid all the comics I'd been reading since I started reading comics again (around 2000, 2001) so all these retcons were a big "Fuck You" to the stories I'd been reading for 5 years, you know THE STORIES I WAS READING WHEN I EFFECTIVELY STARTED READING COMICS, hence I cried "well fuck this" and stopped reading comics.

Good on you Marvel

I'm sorry you gave up on comics. I got back into comics because of Marvel's output from 2000-2005, and felt the same frustration in the years since. I just instead switched to more indie books (like Chew, easily the best comic I've read in a long time), so there are options if you ever want to get back into the medium.

 

[PrinceofPersia]

Well proving once again why I stopped reading Marvel and DC comics a LOOOOONG time ago. These companies have proven once again that they are all hacks that couldn't write a decent human story to save their collective rear ends. Man I hate retcons and reboots so much.

 

[LogicNProportion]

I liked The Scarlet Spider...

 

[Formica Archonis]

I didn't read OMD myself, heard a lot second hand, so please pardon any stupidity on my part:

All the way through what I heard about OMD, I was expecting Mephisto to reveal that Aunt May had some sort of terminal disease that was going to kill her in 24 hours so all Peter's idiotic deal-making did was buy her "one more day" - a day he now had to decide if he was going to spend with the wife he was losing forever or the mother-figure he was losing forever. That is the sort of epic-level ironic-Hell dick move I expect out of Satan, whether or not he's subbed out for Mephisto or Asmodeus or Folger's Crystals or something.

Because that was about the only thing that would've made sense: A sort of morality play about how obsession and inability to let go leads to greater loss. Especially the way JMS wrote the thing, which even being retold second-hand oozes of "I was forced to write this, I think it's stupid too."

 

[Monkey King]

First of all, I thought we had "Ultimate Spiderman" because people wanted a younger, single, more approachable hero, not one mired in 40 years of continuity; but as the Ultimate Universe got off message (it pretty much looks like regular marvel, with more grit and swearing, and a few male characters now female), I guess they felt the need to retcon.

Part of the problem, at least from what I've seen in Marvel, is this need for a "Blockbuster" event every year or so. Just in recent memory you had the Avengers break up, reform with different "aka popular" members, only to break up during the Civil War. Then, while that was winding down, you had Secret Invasion, which lead directly to Dark Reign (villians acting as heroes, under Norman Osborn), which brings us to the Heroic era.
Not included in that was "House of M", which was an attempt to correct the "mutants will be the dominate species in 100 years" that was comingout of the X books, and World War Hulk, which brought us a very angry Hulk (and hulk spinoffs, like Red Hulk and She-Redhulk). Oh, and there as a TON of changes in space in the marvel universe. For a while, it seemed that marvel was destroying itself and recreating it every year. You can't do that with a static continuity. So, there was a need to hit at least one "RESET" button EVERY time they did it.

And if you think this whole Spiderman thing is crap, you should see all the Retcon they've done to Wolverine: at one point, it was believed he was raised by wolverines! (and don't get a die hard X fan started on "Bone Claws"!