The Big Picture: This Episode is Part of the Problem

SNCommand

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Not expecting much out of the new sequel trilogy to be honest, I saw the casting and it looked rather dull, most of them are from the original trilogy, which means screentime will have to be designated to them, I had expected perhaps the main actors and the droids to show up, but when even Chewbacca is to show up I think it's perhaps a bit too much, and then it's the new actors, where the supposed villain looks like the most bland alternative they can pick, if it just turns into some young adult sith showing up with some superweapon of sorts I will be disappointed
 

Nghtgnt

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May 30, 2010
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Dear MovieBob,

I would love an episode about Big Trouble in Little China.

That is all.

 

SnowWookie

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Nov 22, 2012
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Jasper van Heycop said:
Case in point: the original Star Wars Trilogy, George Lucas' original ideas were, frankly, awful and the entire trilogy was saved by good editing (Episode IV) and good writers (Episode V). Then they let him have free reign on the prequels and look how that turned out *shudders*.

At least with this new trilogy we get a director that is passable overall, with a few moments of greatness.
I completely disagree. Lucas has great ideas. Lightsabers, Death Star, Vader being Lukes dad... all Lucas. Where he falls down is executing those ideas. He can't write dialogue and he's not a great director either (witness the same boring conversation shots in the prequels).

Abrhams is the opposite. He's technically competent, can do semi-decent characters, but he completely fails to grasp the grander scheme of things.

Honestly, I'd give Star Wars to Edgar Wright.
 

KiramidHead

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So the announcement of the cast the day before doesn't count as news? One would think the additions of Andy Serkis, Max von Sydow, and a slew of virtual unknowns would be enough, but apparently it's just a "god damn photograph."
 

Redd the Sock

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It's hard not to sympathize with the mindset. Weird Al supposedly got most of the lyrics for The Saga Begins just from the trailers and other marketing material, which, well, when you look at it, yeah, we all kind of knew 90% of that movie going in. Even when you dismiss the marketing, too much fiction and too many people trying can seem to piece together a lot of plots and twists before they come up. We pretty much knew SHIELD was going down. We knew mystery guy was Kahn. Right now, given the number of people trying, episode 7 is probably out there as a theory based on random guessing by now. The death in Harry Potter 6, I'm amazed more people didn't see that coming It's not difficult to understand that a lot of the allure of going to the movie has been replaced with the anticipation. Yeah, a Mandarian or "death" of agent Coulson slips though now and again, and the number of projects having to adhere to adaptation canon doesn't help (anything in Amazing Spider-Man 2) but rue surprise is rare these days.

What worries me is the twist potential, especially given the series here. Empire had one of the greatest movie twists of all time, and you see directors try and repeat it or outdo it with little success. You just get a sinking feeling Abrahms and others in production what to repeat that, and it has a very good chance of being far lamer than they think it is.
 

wfpdk

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honestly, bob, i think you should talk about big trouble in little china town more.
 

Flunk

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Nobody actually observes "Star Wars Day". It's basically a Big Bang Theory only type thing. I've been doing my part, if anyone mentions it I punch them in the face. I suggest everyone else does the same.

Let's just see if the new movies are any good before we throw them under the bus. All the side-channel junk in the world isn't going to make the movies any better or worse.
 

JimB

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SnowWookie said:
[George Lucas] can't write dialogue and he's not a great director either (witness the same boring conversation shots in the prequels).
When Han Solo and Lando Calrissian are arguing about who should fly the Millenium Falcon in Return of the Jedi, I have always wondered if Billy Dee Williams and Harrison Ford were even in the same room, because they only appear in like one camera shot together, and after that it's just close-ups of their talking heads. Do you think that might have been bad camerawork instead?
 

Aiddon_v1legacy

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I do think Abrams' mystery box just isn't working all that much. I mean, hell, people figured out Cumberbatch was Khan in no time despite him being white as a sheet. Plus the thing is ALL stories have secrets, that's the point of them. Nowadays, you're best off just accepting reality and getting over the fact that that age of the unknown can't come back. Pretty much the only company that even get away with that anymore is Nintendo.
 

vagabondwillsmile

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Murphyrmurphy0 said:
I for one remember a time when information about a movie was in large part geared to get you excited about the movie. Not to inform you about about the movie. For example you might hear a catch phrase in a trailer, you've heard it a hundred times before the movie is released, but upon actually viewing the film that one particular line is different. a different camera angle, an alternative take on the reading, completely different context from how it was presented to you in advertising. I for one take this moment as a breath of fresh air, an active nudge on my opinion towards suspension of disbelief. I can do this because it allows me to dismiss the advertising as advertising. Take the days of future past as an example ( i'd say spoilers, but the fact that this isn't a spoiler is the point) I watched a trailer where they "revealed" that magneto was held under the pentagon, and we see him raise and drop a baseball stadium. What I saw, I have no doubt, will be identical to what I see in the film. This isn't your two favorite characters spouting a cool line just before they start charging at each other only to have the shot end a moment before they contact each other. Advertisement should give you a sense, not of what the movie actually is, but a sense of WHY YOU WANT TO SEE IT. I see magneto lifting the stadium, cut, I can't wait to see what he's doing, where this goes, why he's doing it. On the opposite I only see the stadium fall, cut, I can't wait to see why how and who made this all happen. Giving me both, I can't wait to see those special effects???
Sure why is still there, but that's a race that's advertises the start, shows the finish, and tells you to come see the race. To me all this does is imply a lack of confidence in your film. Even movies that are doing this properly still have a lapse in discipline when it comes to keeping the reveal in the theater. Take Hercules for example ( the rock version) One trailer, does a good job of portraying the film with a somewhat serious or at least dramatic context. This movie WILL NOT BE THAT. It will have children giving light comic relief to compliment one liners and catch phrases that portray Hercules as a teen cool super hero. BUUUTTT, the advertising has created appeal for a much wider audience. Don't get me wrong it's still guilty of this times fallacies( if he has the nemean lion on his head, Don't show me the nemean lion )however over-all even with a story that i'm very familiar with, I'm still mostly in the dark as to how this film will feel and play out. So far JJ has not made these mistakes, he is using the popular media to create that speculation, prediction, and debate that normally comes from good advertising, without advertising. How? " the extended universe no longer counts, all new films are now canon. " I want to be in the dark, I want it to force you to speculate on larger themes and send you into undefined territory. I can only dream to meet a character that is interested, important to the story, and most importantly I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT !!!. I was ultimately disappointed with Prometheus, But that one trailer had me giddy to sit in that theater. With the high rate of reboots and ripoffs I understand the appeal of wanting to know if a movie is worth your money before hand. Bottom line: Tell me I'm going to see something new, I go to the theater excited to find out. Tell me what is new, I go into the theater hoping you didn't mess it up. As a long time fan of your show I can tell you with certainty. When you say we just don't know enough about this movie to know for sure, That's when I'm paying the closest attention.
Agreed, I really hate previews where by the end it's like, "Welp no reason to see the movie I guess." Also, the worst case of line changing I can think of is the "Skiddoosh" in Kung Fu Panda. In the preview it happens with the belly bump (which is the perfect moment it seems). In the actual film though it happens with the finger hold. Or Indian Jones' "Part Time" bit is different in the preview from the film for Chrystal Skulls. I could be wrong, but I seem to recall that sometimes a production company or an ad firm apart from the film studio will be contracted out to develope previews and such. Sometimes they are given material from old edits, or they mix material on their own differently from how it will be in the final product.
 

MrBaskerville

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I usually don´t check much information about movies before i see them, i read reviews to discover what movies are out there at the moment, but i never follow the development religiously. I just don´t think it matters that much, i love movies but we won´t see Star Wars until 2015 and maybe a trailer near winter time, until then i don´t really care since it´s so far into the future. I´d much rather look into the stuff that releases soon or the stuff that i missed.
 

Azuaron

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Am I the only one that actually watched Abrams' TED talk? The whole point of the mystery box is that you do not look in the box. He's had that magic shop box since he was, like, 8, and he knows he'll be disappointed if he sees what's in the box.

You hear that? He knows he'll be disappointed if he sees what's in the box. The idea if the mystery box is not hiding information until the right moment, it's hiding information forever and letting people's imaginations fill in the gaps, something that, it turns out, Abrams isn't very good at (he's too much of a show off and likes to show you the "incredible" thing in his box).

Actual mystery box movies/tv:


Cloverfield. What the hell was that monster?
Lost, up until the last episode, at which point the box was opened and everyone was disappointed.


Things that were not mystery box (as defined in the TED talk):


Any movie Abrams has directed or written


Now, his whole marketing tactic where he tries to keep a lid on production... that's still the thing it is, but can we please stop calling it "mystery box marketing" because it's initially similar (if ultimately opposite)?

This casual ignorance of what concepts mean is how we get things like the new Man of Steel movie: Superman's basically just Batman but if Batman had god-like powers, right? Brood brood brood.
 

xaszatm

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Sep 4, 2010
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ShadowGandalf01 said:
I prefer movie creators to not give away too much. I like to be surprised at the movies, not be going, oh this must be the part where *twist* happens.

For example: Captain America: The Winter Soldier. I would've been gobsmacked to learn the identity of the Winter Soldier while watching the movie, but instead, it was given away, by me reading the film synopsis. Why?

So really, the less I know/find out about Star Wars 7, the better. I've learned to tread VERY carefully around the internet to avoid things I'd rather not find out.

(I've been avoiding all the Godzilla trailers since the teaser already sold me. I don't need to see anything else about it)
Probably because that's not the twist of Captain America: The Winter Soldier? Hell, the early reveal of the Winter's Soldier's identity completely blindsided the REAL twist of the movie.

That Hydra was a part of Shield since the beginning

OT: With that stated, if you really want to hide your movie, to what Marvel has been doing for its previous movies. Pretend to hid something incredibly obvious then blindside them with another twist. Everyone was surprised by Iron Man 3's and Winter Soldier's twits, so you can keep a secret. You just need to know who your audience is and lead them in a different direction.
 

Gunnyboy

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Sep 25, 2010
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Sick of entitled fans, and journalists, who feel like they're "owed" news. You're going to see it anyway; it's better to know as little as possible. Nolan and Spielberg do the same
 

iamscottevil

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I just wanted to tell moviebob that I see you included C3PO's mystery box for the stormtroopers in the video edit. Very sneaky. Also, does anyone else think that Marsha Lucas' contributions to star wars being erased from history is an appropriate topic now that feminism and media is a bigger topic?
 

inkheart_artist

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Jan 22, 2009
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I can't say I really care whats going on with Star Wars anymore. After all those shitty games and cartoons came out after the new trilogy, I just completely lost interest. Three movies that I thought were pretty cool as a kid are just not enough motivation to keep up with the sludge they're pushing out 30 years after the fact.

On another note, why isn't the big picture showing up in any of the feeds in this new layout? It's my Tuesday ritual to watch this show. I hope the Escapist isn't trying to phase it out.
 

SonOfVoorhees

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Read on another site that JJ should make a Mass Effect movie. I wouldnt trust JJ to make a sandwich. Fucked up star trek and now he will probably do the same to Star Wars.
 

Arcane Azmadi

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Jan 23, 2009
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I think this episode nicely highlighted the paradox of the internet age of movie anticipation. I fully engage in the reveals and teasers and leaked information to build up anticipation for an upcoming movie, but at the same time I ALSO miss being able to go into a movie with no idea what to expect so everything I see is surprising and unexpected and my reaction can be "whoa, didn't see that coming" rather than "cool, there's that awesome bit from the trailer". It's contradictory and confusing.

ShadowGandalf01 said:
I prefer movie creators to not give away too much. I like to be surprised at the movies, not be going, oh this must be the part where *twist* happens.

For example: Captain America: The Winter Soldier. I would've been gobsmacked to learn the identity of the Winter Soldier while watching the movie, but instead, it was given away, by me reading the film synopsis. Why?
Well as Bob pointed out in his review of the movie (I think), the real twist of the movie wasn't the identity of the Winter Soldier (who, let's face it, was really only playing a supporting role in the movie named after him) but
the fact that Hydra was not only still around, but deeply embedded inside of S.H.I.E.L.D.
Now THAT twist absolutely blew my mind. I was sitting in the cinema literally gobsmacked, because I had absolutely no idea it was coming.
 

Kameburger

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Apr 7, 2012
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This whole mystery box thing might be cool when you are working on new IP but I think Abrams thing of "this isn't a remake of Star Trek 2......OH! Fooled you! It is!" Approach to twists is kinda silly. I think a few people mentioned the Winter Soldier Reveal, but the truth is when you are dealing with this IP why both hiding it? I mean its not hard to get spoiled. I found out who the winter soldier was before I knew who the winter soldier was. The reason for that was that, I really got back into comics around Civil War, and before that I hadn't really read any Captain America before then.

So J.J. Abrams who admittedly makes pretty inoffensive (not amazing) movies, shouldn't bother trying to fool us with twists before the movie comes out simply because it just ends up with him lying about what he's doing but in such an obvious way that everything surrounding what he does just comes across as contrived and pointless.