The Big Picture: With Great Power

[theultimateend]

So you're saying that instead of hypocritically embracing an atmosphere of exclusion that we have defined ourselves as the victims of, geeks ought to try to fight the demon that has plagued us for so long?

You're a madman, Mr. Chipman! A madman!

It certainly worked for African American Culture.

You won't catch them viciously fighting against gay rights.

It blows my mind.

I think that's just the thing. Once people get into a position of power they pick up the reigns of the people they fought against in the first place.

Maybe something about us all being the same at the core or whatever. I dunno.

Be nice. That's my advice.

 

[Corvo-Attano-77]

Playing video games and watching Star Trek movies does not a geek make. Especially current games and Star Trek movies, which are a far cry from what they used to be when geek wasn't mainstream.

Also I have to post this here:

 

[Arif_Sohaib]

Giving power to a persecuted people has several times resulted in them abusing it and sometimes still try to act persecuted.

I am going to catch a lot of flack for this but look at Israel. Every time someone dares to look at Palestine in a good or even neutral light they start shouting antisemitism. Remember when Google changed its Palestine site to Google Palestine instead of Palestinian Territories? They weren't even supporting any stance, they were just following UN convention.
The Holocaust happened more than 60 years ago and more than just the Jewish people suffered in it(the Gypsies are still discriminated against) and everyone responsible for it is dead and now discrimination is over yet if you even offer constructive criticism to Israel, you are a Nazi.

And for a more obscure reference, look up what happened when Indians/Pakistanis thought they had won the 1857 war of independence. Or the rebels in Libya today.

But the movie industry took a long time to mature, segregate audience by age, gender and likes and make separate kind of movies for different audience so the gaming industry will do the same soon. But it needs time to mature and not get beaten with a bat. You beat it with a bat, you get a very defensive Iran and Israel, you give it time to mature, you get a moderate and peaceful Malaysia.
By this I mean just sneak the acceptance in there instead of making it the focus of all or even most marketing and discussion.

 

[I.Muir]

People won't like the removal of that persecuted sort of rebel underdog status. Especially if they find it's because people are trying to emulate the characters of the big bang theory.

It's funny that some of the people who contributed to the abuse of those they deemed as geeks are now enjoying many things previously geeky.

Also I was with you Bob on the whole not being a dick on the internet until you brought up Anita. A person who has received nothing but profit by inviting trolls then portraying herself as a victim or modern feminism 101. There is a wrong way and a right way to critique somebody's "opinion" and what the internet did was typical and wrong but in this case I can hardly sympathize. You don't start with a conclusion and then attempt to find evidence for it. Anita won't find solutions to the "misogyny" that is apparently everywhere, if she did she would be out of a job. Her own thesis leaves any female protagonists that might arise hilariously unable to show feats of emotional or physical strength because this apparently means they are acting like a male fill in. How then are you supposed to make a character seem strong but human which many have trouble with already, I don't know. Also nobody really want's the protagonist to be pathetic, fragile or anything resembling sinji really.

 

[Deadagent]

I agree with your comment as a whole, but I gotta say this part doesn`t feel right. I saw that video and thought that guy was a complete idiot. He kept trying to defend fiction with fiction, claiming things in games justified themselves within the game`s own context. Real world don`t work that way.

So, what you're saying is that, if woman is harmed in a video game or any other medium, It's sexist regardless of narrative context. Aka its never ok ho harm a female in ANY way shape or form but it's ok to go ballistic on an army of men. Do you even think this trough before you write or do you just copypaste Anitas bullshit thinking that it's undeniable fact?

 

[Imp_Emissary]

Thank God for you Bob.[sub](Don't tell Jim I said that. He'll get jealous. ;D)[/sub]

I think we as a community really do have an opportunity to make a place where all can be welcome, regardless of who/what they are.
It won't be easy, but most things that are worth having are also worth the effort you have to put in to have them.

Good luck with the book!

I'm telling him you said that....

>Asking for geek culture to be more inclusive and caring towards anyone who's suffered discrimination.
>"Whiteknighting"

If treating other members of this culture as human beings, even if they're not the people you'd normally associate with, is wrong, then I don't want to be here. I can't help but wonder if people like you may be part of the problem....

D: No! Don't do that! If you do he'll get us both! Me for giving praise to someone else, and you for being a tattle tail.

No wonder about that last bit. They are the problem.
That said, there are three things wrong with that persons post(other than what you said).

1. It's just a picture, low content. ;p

2. If all you have to do to be a "white knight" is say Anita's name, then I think that covers everyone on the internet.(side note: That explains why some people are trying to not say her name though. ;p)

3. That picture only makes Bob/being a white knight seem cool.

 

[Smokescreen]

Yup. Do better: this is the command.

 

[StriderShinryu]

In connection to the Tropes vs Women reference, I don't take Alisia Sarkeesian seriously.

Watch her episode, then Facts vs Women and you'll see why.

While Thunderf00t's videos made rational counterpoints to Sarkeesian's videos, and that's a great start, we shouldn't forget the maelstrom of troll fire that arose after she announced her kickstarter

The side of the gaming community driven by compassion & perspective is ever growing, but there is still work to be done



Movie Bob, excellent video

This is very much the truth. It's not a question about whether you agree with Sarkeesians perspective on games/culture, it's about whether you actually respect her right to give her opinion in the first place. You may not feel that the games industry and/or culture at large are misogynist but that doesn't give you any more right to play the extreme violent victimization card towards those who do. Part of being intelligent and wise is realizing that others can have their own opinions that you may not agree with and, in fact, it's perfectly okay to let them speak their piece without needing to argue.

 

[TheRightToArmBears]

However, they're both fairly distinct and share less musically and fashionwise (which matters with regards to mainstream acceptance) with other subgenres. Yes, technically they're metal, but I certainly wouldn't say that hair metal shared the same spirit...

But who really cares?

I've loved all kinds of metal since I was about 12 years old. The problem is, as with the "geek culture" thing, people who define their identity as part of the "metal community" or whatever.

Who gives a shit? It's all music. I remember back in the 80s and early 90s, when I was teased for liking rap music like Public Enemy, because metal was the popular thing in my area. But I also loved metal. And jazz. And pop. And I was a nerd who loved to read.

The whole thing with sub-genres and sub-cultures is bullshit to me. It's all just music.art/culture. Why do you have to define things so narrowly? We are humans, not categories on a library shelf. People change. Someone who was once "PUNK 4 EVA" might become a techno fan later in life. The labels are stupid.

Why do I define things so narrowly? I don't- whilst I do think there are a lot of silly subgenres that can be done away with, some things are still different and it's natural that I'll have my preferences. People really loving metal and identifying themselves as metalheads isn't the same as putting down other genres because they're not metal, I hate that (especially as it gives all of us a bad name), I just identify a lot with metal. It's nice to feel like a part of something bigger. I understand why being super-passionate about metal might seem silly to people who view it as just another genre, but I love metal, it's more than just other music to me and I can't really explain why without sound very silly and very illogical.

 

[RJ Dalton]

I think what's mostly likely is a continuation of the the trend for abused children to grow up to be abusers.

 

[Dangit2019]

Geek 3.0 = bronies.

Oh God, and then we're back at square one.

 

[Baresark]

He is right about a lot of things. My one problem is the constant use of the term "we" in this video. I have nothing to do with a lot of the bad things about geek culture. I almost hate the idea of a "geek culture". At least he didn't use the term "community", that drives me nuts worse than anything. Great video besides that whole "We" thing.

My parents used to do the same thing in reference to black and white society, native americans, anything that separated what my family superficially was to what other people and families are superficially were/are. It happens all the time in the media. "We" treated a,b, and c poorly, "we" should not be surprised there are repercussions. How about I am not part of the racist, homophobic, xenophobic, sexist or any other negative words ending is -ist and -ic. I cannot take responsibility for what other people do. Will I combat it as I see it? Yes (in real life, it's a waste of energy to fight it on the internet). Is it my job to run around the world finding it just to be combated? No, it's not.

 

[Baresark]

I think what's mostly likely is a continuation of the the trend for abused children to grow up to be abusers.

That is an interesting statement. People have choice, most abused children do not grow up to be abusers. There may be a statistically enhanced chance that it can happen compared to people with no abuse history in their family, but it mostly doesn't happen.

 

[Phuctifyno]

So, what you're saying is that, if woman is harmed in a video game or any other medium, It's sexist regardless of narrative context. Aka its never ok ho harm a female in ANY way shape or form but it's ok to go ballistic on an army of men.

lol. None of that is what I`m saying. You`re ignoring the real argument in the exact same way Thunderf00t did in his video.

Fiction. Thunderf00t was defending fiction on fictitious premises. Any writer can come with any reason to contextually justify anything they want. The problem doesn`t exist within the fiction, especially not on a story-by-story basis; it exists in the real world, where all stories co-exist, and more importantly, where the writers and audience live. Any individual writer can dream up a hundred brilliant reasons to have a woman harmed in his or her story; in and of itself, that`s fine. The problem is, specifically in gaming, that so many writers (not all, but mostly male) are thinking up the same things without thinking through its cause (the real cause for they`re writing it, not the fictional cause they invented for it happening in their story), its overuse (male on male violence is more common, but is portrayed differently), or its ramifications (for a mistakenly estimated mostly male audience).

Do you even think this trough before you write or do you just copypaste Anitas bullshit thinking that it's undeniable fact?

Please clean up your feces. This is a public recreational facility and no one wants to see that.

 

[Seldon2639]

Bob misunderstands the geek culture as being one that was "against persecution", but that's never what geek culture was about. Being a geek was just as much about having an insular minority which believed itself to be superior to all others as football or anything else. It wasn't "OMG the football players don't like me, so I'll be friends with everyone else" it was "to hell with the football players, and everyone else, they aren't smart enough/mature enough to understand how awesome D&D is." And we loved the superiority (as Bob has talked about) of our knowledge. We're the ones who like whispering to someone "this is what's about to happen" and then feel good about ourselves when it happens. We like feeling like our knowledge is exclusive.

He's ignoring that the "I may be a geek, but at least I'm not..." has always been a part of our subculture. I may be into Star Trek, but at least I'm not a D&D geek. I may be into D&D but at least I'm not an anime geek. I may be into anime, but at least I'm not a LARPer. It only gets worse the closer any of those groups get to actually being mainstream.

And we want it to be exclusive, because there is a certain sense of "I suffered from being a geek, and now a whole lot of people are bandwagoning because it's popular. Screw you, I liked Dr. Who back when it sucked."

 

[Ishal]

Geek 3.0 = bronies.

Oh God, and then we're back at square one.

Oh c'mon... its not that bad is it? We're a stable bunch of fans who love and tolerate?! Right.. RIGHT? BROHOOF

Captcha: do more sit-ups

Fuck off captcha I already ran 3 miles today. Jesus Christ. What was I saying? Oh yeah love and tolerate... wait...

 

[MCerberus]

Geek 3.0 = bronies.

Oh God, and then we're back at square one.

The weird part is that the Bronies are a geek sub-culture that goes counter to the Baysplosion/Spungargleweewee/why is everything gritty mainstreaming. In essence, it's what filled the void (along with Adventure Time) of people wanting to reject the dark (literally) and angry hate of a post-9/11 world. Brightly colored horses with old-school gags and rubber skeletons... okay!

 

[IndianaJonny]

Huh, made me think: there may be folks out there who feel out of place/awkward when they can't contribute to a discussion about superheroes with friends, colleagues, family etc. Can't say I ever saw that coming. "The Geek shall inherit the Earth", I guess.