The Big Picture: With Great Power

[Jennacide]

I just want to say that while a lot of the outcry directed at Anita Sarkissian announcing her videos was sexist, mysognist nonsense, that too often it's glared over that thinking individuals like myself also did not want her doing it. Not because I don't believe there is something that could be said, but because I don't want Anita being the one to do it. There are many other notable feminists in the games sector that are well spoken, and will attempt to have an actual dialogue with people. Anita is the worst kind of militant feminist, the kind that make it so when I tell people I'm a feminist, they assume that means I burn my bra, hate pornography with a passion, and don't bathe.

Anita's videos are lazy in message, mostly letting her get on a soapbox without any actual attempt at discussion, and cherry pick things without giving both sides of a story. We deserved a better voice for the issues of sexual objectification of women in games and the over-use of certain tropes in games, while commenting on why it has become that way and when it's sometimes acceptable.

 

[TheDrunkNinja]

Whoa, lotta backlash with this one, eh Bob?

Well, for my two-cents, I'd say that I agree with everything you just said whole-heartedly. However, I believe the problem people seem to be taking with it is the fact you're kinda preaching to the choir on this one. Everything came down to "We should do something about this!" rather than "Here's what we should do guys..."

It comes across as raising awareness of a problem that we're already well aware of and currently fighting. You'll just get weird looks if you start yelling that a war is going on when we're all deep in the trenches. We're aware, so maybe instead of the preaching, could we maybe spitball some possible solutions?

 

[LittleRedCircles]

I am not a feminist. I do think that equality is important and I sure wish things like rape (all kinds) and slut shaming (all kinds) would go away, but I'm not expecting guys to stop loving breasts or ogling half-naked women, and I'm certainly not expecting that the video game industry is suddenly going to start making games featuring strong, non-objectified female protagonists just in the name of equality. Video game companies are not interested in equality. They are not interested in social justice. They are interested in making money. The video game industry exists entirely in a capitalist bubble in which they find (to an extent) a formula, and as long as that formula continues to make them oodles and gobs of money, they are going to continue following it. I don't begrudge the video game industry for continuing to feature men saving/objectifying/kidnapping scantily-clad women. Whatever, they're making their money and if I'm offended by something I can vote with my dollah bills.

However, Bob is not wrong. There are a lot of arguments here that seem to be falling right in line with what he's saying. Yes, previously "on top" groups have a history of stealing, cheating, oppressing, etc. What Bob is saying is that we have an opportunity to change all of that. Everybody who idolizes geek culture won't fall in line, but that's their choice, and it's not wrong for us to give them that choice.

And for those of you saying "Geek culture is not a group," while you may be technically right, it doesn't change the fact that the world perceives us as such, and that can be used or abused depending on how much malevolence and hatred you have for the world at large.

I used to be an active member of several online communities that primarily dealt with "geek culture." I found it to be enriching and intellectually challenging, and I'd be lying if I said some of my best friends didn't come from online-only discussions of Batman or Final Fantasy. However, over the last few years I have decreased my Internet participation to a depressing minimum. It has been brutal watching the loudest and angriest among us dominate conversation after conversation, essentially halting all of the debate and discussion that previously made my time on the Internet so much fun. Even innocuous topics eventually (faster and faster, lately) devolve into vicious bouts of name-calling and mentally-blocked, stubborn, "this is not up for discussion" answers from people.

I feel that these loud, angry people are missing the point. And frankly, it's exhausting to read that kind of reactionary, hate-fueled garbage. It is creating and encouraging a toxic environment.

If you don't feel like you need to be a superhero going out and "saving the world" from oppression and injustice, then don't do that. I don't mean to get all afternoon special on you, but for a lot of people, all we have control over is how we communicate our ideas to others. It's incredibly sad to me that so many people allow their hatred to fester and take over the way they talk to people.

 

[Axolotl]

We deserved a better voice for the issues of sexual objectification of women in games and the over-use of certain tropes in games, while commenting on why it has become that way and when it's sometimes acceptable.

Well it doesn't really matter if you "deserved" someone better, Anita is the only one so far willing to invest the time and money so for that she's the face of feminism in video games. You don't have to like it but you pretty much need to accept that it's just the way things are.

 

[Sovereignty]

I really hate how all the "white knights" are advocating for these special treatments of the target demographic they feel is persecuted.

Equality isn't treating a girl nicer than you would a guy on Xbox live. It's treating her the SAME way you'd treat everyone else.

The internet has ALWAYS been a cesspool. You're free to express opinions society finds taboo without any repercussion. Say something the 'community' doesn't like and you can just leave it and find another one. I'm so sick of this bullshit. You don't want equality amongst everyone. You want special treatment.

 

[rembrandtqeinstein]

Looks like Bob's annual voter registration drive for the democratic party is well underway. Note how he proudly emphasized the word "progressive". You could just hear him puffing out his feathers on that one.

Here is one small response to this mess.

1. Someone can use gay and fag in a negative way without hating homosexuals. There is a whole episode of southpark about it.
2. The reason women are generally unwelcome in predominantly male venues is because the presence of women require that men change their behavior. Either the men want to get laid thus stress out over presenting the "right" image
[footnote]Note that men who think that how they act around women determines whether or not they get laid are sadly in need of an education.[/footnote]. Or they stress out over saying something wrong that could bring about an expensive sexual harassment charge/lawsuit. Just look at donglegate as an example. Men having a private conversion at a mostly male conference lost their jobs because a woman heard them, was "offended", and determined that her being offended justified her in ratting them out.
3. people who expect others to change because they are "offended" but not harmed need to harden the fuck up, sticks and stones and all that
For reference click the first link http://lmgtfy.com/?q=%22offended%22+steve+hughes

 

[Guiltyone]

Great video, Bob! You are so right. Nerds can be the worst kind of bully. I see it every time a popular video game goes free-to-play (for example): there is a fresh stream of new players, many of whom are not "hardcore gamers", and the established game community meets them with hate, bile and contempt. What a shame.

 

[Symbio Joe]

On the one hand there are people who do not suffer memory loss:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/the-big-picture/2709-Magneto-Was-Right
On the other hand reading through of some of the reactions...
Magneto was right.

 

[Something Amyss]

Umm okay not sure what that on this week.

I think this is a slow burn thing. This has really been building up for quite some time.

 

[DerangedHobo]

Looks like Bob's annual voter registration drive for the democratic party is well underway. Note how he proudly emphasized the word "progressive". You could just hear him puffing out his feathers on that one.

Here is one small response to this mess.

1. Someone can use gay and fag in a negative way without hating homosexuals. There is a whole episode of southpark about it.
2. The reason women are generally unwelcome in predominantly male venues is because the presence of women require that men change their behavior. Either the men want to get laid thus stress out over presenting the "right" image
[footnote]Note that men who think that how they act around women determines whether or not they get laid are sadly in need of an education.[/footnote]. Or they stress out over saying something wrong that could bring about an expensive sexual harassment charge/lawsuit. Just look at donglegate as an example. Men having a private conversion at a mostly male conference lost their jobs because a woman heard them, was "offended", and determined that her being offended justified her in ratting them out.
3. people who expect others to change because they are "offended" but not harmed need to harden the fuck up, sticks and stones and all that
For reference click the first link http://lmgtfy.com/?q=%22offended%22+steve+hughes

So much this, I don't like women in my online games because it's just like being in a public place, It's like you always have to watch your tongue. If I have a good rape joke I can't say that around a woman because they will probably complain to the admins I will get my ass banned in a heartbeat but I can say it around guys because 99% of the time they will either find it funny or just not care. I mean look at all the times comedians have gotten sued or bad press over a joke, all of those hecklers that sue them are women, male hecklers just act belligerent and drunk and get thrown. Women being in my game and actively showing everyone that they are a woman changes the environment, I don't like being restrained on the internet the one last place in the world where I can get on my soap box and say the most racist, offensive despicable stuff without repercussion. If that's sexist then I love sexism because I wouldn't have it any other way.

 

[Dangit2019]

"User received a warning for this post."

Jebus kwaist the moderators are horrible on this website.

It was low content. You can't just post a picture without any addition to the discussion.

 

[Goliath100]

We deserved a better voice for the issues of sexual objectification of women in games and the over-use of certain tropes in games, while commenting on why it has become that way and when it's sometimes acceptable.

Well it doesn't really matter if you "deserved" someone better, Anita is the only one so far willing to invest the time and money so for that she's the face of feminism in video games. You don't have to like it but you pretty much need to accept that it's just the way things are.

No we don't. We don't need to accept anything because they "are". If so, change will never come. We can fight, win over their mind one by one. By logic and well made argument. So you can see why it's sad that Sarkeesian, a real straw feminist in her own right, is the "face of feminism" in video games.

 

[Foolery]

Good grief. What was the point of this? Can't people just enjoy a video game, comic book, movie, board game, D&D, etc? Yes. Yes, they can. But there's no need to tie any of those to politics. Eh. Good luck with your ridiculous and strange crusade Bob.

 

[Mr. Omega]

Looks like Bob's annual voter registration drive for the democratic party is well underway. Note how he proudly emphasized the word "progressive". You could just hear him puffing out his feathers on that one.

Weirdest Big Picture so far. It started out as a history lesson on geek culture then turned into yet another american liberal rant against the patriarchy (that's popular to do at the moment) and then finished by preaching some kind of left liberal geek ideology.

Ok, I'm just curious, but maybe one of you two can answer me.

When the fuck did "Don't be an asshole" and "Consider other people" become exclusively liberal positions as opposed to generally good advice?

 

[MooShoo]

No we don't. We don't need to accept anything because they "are". If so, change will never come. We can fight, win over their mind one by one. By logic and well made argument. So you can see why it's sad that Sarkeesian, a real straw feminist in her own right, is the "face of feminism" in video games.

Nah, using logic against radicals has never worked.

 

[xaszatm]

Wow...Thank you internet. You are trying to prove to the world the every negative stereotype we have is not just true, but that we are proud of it. This has to be the most depressing comment list I have ever seen...

I really hate how all the "white knights" are advocating for these special treatments of the target demographic they feel is persecuted.

Equality isn't treating a girl nicer than you would a guy on Xbox live. It's treating her the SAME way you'd treat everyone else.

The internet has ALWAYS been a cesspool. You're free to express opinions society finds taboo without any repercussion. Say something the 'community' doesn't like and you can just leave it and find another one. I'm so sick of this bullshit. You don't want equality amongst everyone. You want special treatment.

So...because it was always a cesspool, we should be proud of it? We should be proud that online gaming is full of misogynistic, racist, homophobic garbage? The fact that we are trying to get rid of this is a bad thing? Is really asking people to think before they open their mouths special treatment? To show common decency? To realize that other people are PEOPLE? I literally cannot comprehend your thinking. Maybe I'm too naive, but I thought that the Cross Assault guy was wrong. That mean-spirited name calling WASN'T part of our culture and if it was, SHOULDN'T be. But here I'm seeing that it is something we should be proud of?!? And when anyone wants people to not to such a thing is "White Knighting?" "Giving Special Treatment?"

Looks like Bob's annual voter registration drive for the democratic party is well underway. Note how he proudly emphasized the word "progressive". You could just hear him puffing out his feathers on that one.

Here is one small response to this mess.

1. Someone can use gay and fag in a negative way without hating homosexuals. There is a whole episode of southpark about it.
2. The reason women are generally unwelcome in predominantly male venues is because the presence of women require that men change their behavior. Either the men want to get laid thus stress out over presenting the "right" image
[footnote]Note that men who think that how they act around women determines whether or not they get laid are sadly in need of an education.[/footnote]. Or they stress out over saying something wrong that could bring about an expensive sexual harassment charge/lawsuit. Just look at donglegate as an example. Men having a private conversion at a mostly male conference lost their jobs because a woman heard them, was "offended", and determined that her being offended justified her in ratting them out.
3. people who expect others to change because they are "offended" but not harmed need to harden the fuck up, sticks and stones and all that
For reference click the first link http://lmgtfy.com/?q=%22offended%22+steve+hughes

1. Yes, someone can. Someone can use those words without hating homosexuals. However, it must also be said that words have consequences. Saying terms like fag and gay in such hateful manner can and will be taken in the same manner one says N***** and C*****.
2. Okay, so that is a good excuse for their behavior? The fact that they are afraid of what they might say might offend women? That speaks to a bigger social problem.
3. The reason people ask people to watch what they say is because of history. Stick and stones may break bones, but words can show underlining hatreds. Just look at America during the civil rights movement when words BECAME sticks and stones. Watch how watching a black person hang became like a family gathering. Watch the casual misogyny many senators make when restricting women's rights. The thing with words is, if you say it enough times, you start to believe its true, and that can take humanity to truly dark places.

 

[Imperator-Zor]

I agree with this statement Bob.

Also, people who use the term "White Knight" as a negative descriptor for people with enlightened views on gender should get off the keyboard and either get an education or get a job more suited for their fetal alcohol syndrome effected brains like sweeping the floor.

Zor

 

[Brad Gardner]

I'm confused. I always thought it was the job of the impowered to suppress others. Also ever since humanity decided to stay in one place it's been tradition to step on the people below you as you are stepped from above. I thought that was breed into us.

And yes, this is flame bait. Truthful bait but still.

 

[DerangedHobo]

1. Yes, someone can. Someone can use those words without hating homosexuals. However, it must also be said that words have consequences. Saying terms like fag and gay in such hateful manner can and will be taken in the same manner one says N***** and C*****.
2. Okay, so that is a good excuse for their behavior? The fact that they are afraid of what they might say might offend women? That speaks to a bigger social problem.
3. The reason people ask people to watch what they say is because of history. Stick and stones may break bones, but words can show underlining hatreds. Just look at America during the civil rights movement when words BECAME sticks and stones. Watch how watching a black person hang became like a family gathering. Watch the casual misogyny many senators make when restricting women's rights. The thing with words is, if you say it enough times, you start to believe its true, and that can take humanity to truly dark places.

Words like '******' and (I have no clue what the other one is) are only offensive when people perceive them as offensive, Doug Stanhope does a great bit which basically boils down to "You're going to teach people that certain noises you can make with your mouth are horrific and just the worse thing you can do? How fucking weak are you?". To put it bluntly, I like the cock and it sickens me that people will campaign and get defensive and offended when someone says "That's so gay", it's pathetic. In a truly free society with true free speech you can say whatever you like and offend nobody, that is a utopia, 'Free speech' today is a mockery. You're top of the food chain and you let a word or some hick fuck's stupid meaningless opinion offend your equally meaningless feelings?

I have nothing to add to your second point apart from this, there is sexism on both sides, the topic has been done to death and the only way out is just adopt a free for all mentality, each to their own. You aren't going to fix women getting offended or males acting like dicks.

All that horror and genocide and murder in the past is, in the past. It happened and most of the time most of the people who persecuted it are dead. As a new generation why don't we learn to laugh at the atrocities that have happened and get over such stupid mundane bullshit like 'bad words'. It's stupid.

 

[chozo_hybrid]

Why can't we all just get along? I have never understood all the BS that surrounds the geek culture, I've always striven to rise above it. Show people stuff about it and enlighten them, so they too can enjoy new things. Stop being elitist and trying to shove out those that you deem "do not fit in with the group" like people do.