The Big Picture: Words for Nerds

[Rect Pola]

Anyone ever think the Internet would be a nicer place without forums (or maybe just far less convenient to dive into)? They are in many ways the root of how The Internet forms a collective opinion and weaponizes it. What if people were forced to keep how they took news to themselves (or at least take a lot longer to let snap ideas gel into thoughts). Yes we'd lose the solidarity and boons from it, but we'd also go without the chaff that is being discussed by people in MovieBob's position.

 

[Eternal_Lament]

That should apply just as much to the bronies as the people who don't like it. After all "it's just a show" so stop posting pics, videos and quotes from it, right?

It's not worth it to express immense hate for a show.

But it is definitely worth it to express love for one.

Call it a double standard all you want. But love should always get better precedence than hate.

I think there are several exceptions to that rule. Such as Creed or Justin Bieber, does the love for them really take precedence over the hate for them?

Anyways, to the video: Maybe it's just because I wasn't really bullied (trolled for sure, but not bullied), but I don't see the logic of comparing bad online behaviour to real-life school bulying. They are inherintly different on the one level that, unlike RL Bullying, online bullying can be ignored. Don't like a forum you're going to? Don't go to that forum. You get hateful or bullying emails? Get a new adress and switch over only the contacts you want. Somone bothers you on Facebook or Twitter? Block them. That's the difference here. For the most part regular bullying can't be ignored, barring certain extreme solutions (such as when Rebecca Black had to be taken out of school and is now home-schooled because of RL bullying going on at her school), and as such the few solutions available show how problamatic RL bullying can be. Online bullying, because it can be ignored easily, as such isn't as effective or as serious. Yeah, everyone can be a dick online, but I thought that's been generally accepted? I also thought that it's been generally accepted that the people who are likely to cause the biggest issues anyways are also the first ones to get banned, so why does it matter, clearly if one is going to such extremes that they get banned everywhere they go, they are either just doing it for attention (in which case you ignore them) or they are very young and are prbably just immature (in which case you ignore them). I'd say some more about the video, but it really doesn't need adressing at this point.

 

[idodo35]

one
but bob its batman!
two
yea console wars are stupid
three and four
totally agree
five
someone had to say that... you are right

 

[Mikeyfell]

I agree with your points, except for the long post one. There's a time and a place for them, sure, but there's always a place for them. If you don't want to read a long post, don't, but some people like to go through an argument in great detail and others like to poke through that big detailed mess and come with counter-points. Why is that "doing it wrong"?


I've said it before and I'll say it again. The LCP rule is not about the amount of words you post, it's what you say with them. It's true that it's not always been like that, but I've never moderated a post just because the word count was low. I have however done so for meaningless "this^" posts and the "I'll just leave this here:" posts Bob mentioned. However keep in mind that this is a grey area, for more information feel free to check the Moderation FAQ. [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.309173-Moderation-FAQ]

That's not actually true.
If there was a way to view the history of posts I've reported you could tell that that wasn't the case.

I've read posts that were half a page of text where the entire post was "I fount a typo in your post, that means you're wrong."

That's low content, that's fluff, I call it negative content. but they never get moderated.
It is only word count and bad words the mods are looking for.


I'm sure you've seen threads where the OP asks a question with a binary answer. In that case people who answer in one or two words are being the most efficient and yet the first 3 pages of those threads are littered with unjust perma-bans.
Conversely you'll get people who answer the question then type "This is space filler so the mods don't ban me" which has no content, but they're always safe.

Either way the rules are broken and the mods are lazy, it has to stop.

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

Plus its easier for them to bully on the internet, no real fear of retaliation. Well, not physical retaliation anyway. Same reason kids talk shit online but never to your face.

 

[Susan Arendt]

I hate to say it, but you're doing it wrong.

I get that this is kind of your job right now. But you need to stop taking the internet culture so seriously. It's not meant to be taken seriously. Everything here is in good fun. Even if it can appear mean spirited to certain groups of people.

I disagree with the "it's the internet, so it doesn't mean anything" philosophy. It may have been true once upon a time when only a minority of people used the internet for fun or communication, but it's become so ubiquitous that it's simply unreasonable and unfair to expect people to just put up with mean-spirited or otherwise jerkish behavior.

Not everything is "in good fun." Some people enjoy the opportunity to be spiteful, cruel, and angry - and even those who don't actually mean any harm often don't think about how their words might impact the person reading them.

If you take what people say seriously, then you deserve it really. Because it's not hard to figure out the general facetiousness that goes on if you pay attention.

And I think you may be giving people too much credit for actually being facetious when they're being nasty. Tacking "just kidding!" on to the end of something doesn't make it a joke, necessarily.

You're certainly right that much of the genuine humor to be found in online circles is based in sarcasm and/or cynicism, but the idea that people "deserve it" when they feel hurt by someone attacking them is straight up bullying behavior.

 

[Solo-Wing]

Ponies are exempt?
[HEADING=1]IT BEGINS![/HEADING]

 

[jessegeek]

Okay, as someone who is:
1) A Bat-fan to the point of owning the Batman Encyclopaedia (it exists and is awesome)
2) A massive nerd
3) Female
4) Mixed race

I agree with a lot of what MovieBob was saying. Yeah, Batman's amazing, and some of the Batman memes are really funny. However, if we make him a memetic 'code-for-awesome' one-note character we will spoil the actual awesome of the character by looking at all writers' interpretations of him as a serious character with wry netizen troll-faces and just take the piss.

Also, memes are hilarious, but if you don't use them judiciously they just become unfunny and can be used as a sort of get-out clause when debating online with someone you know belongs to a different background to you. Having an entire argument that comprises of 'get back in the kitchen ***** and make me a sammich' isn't funny, it's just moronic.

Cheers to MovieBob for being the voice of reason.

 

[cdstephens]

Uh, is nerd culture even the victim nowadays? At least from my viewpoint, bullying people who are into "nerd culture" simply because of the aforementioned nerd culture has gone down quite a bit, especially if you consider the fact that nerd culture is becoming mainstream. For example, everyone likes the Dark Knight, not just nerds. Everyone plays Modern Warfare, not just nerds. Everyone plays on the Wii, not just nerds. I just got into college, and throughout my education I have never seen any group of people that could be classified as nerds be bullied or marginalized for their nerdy interests. Hell, one of the English classes at my school read Watchmen. Combined with the fact that nerds of the past control the technology and entertainment history (*cough* Bill Gates *cough*) and that being brainy leads to better education, which leads to better jobs, which leads to more money, it's hard to make the case that nerds are still the victim of society.

 

[Geo Da Sponge]

Ponies are officially sanctioned by Movie Bob? Huzzah! The fun has been doubled!

I'm almost surprised he didn't mention furries at the end there considering they seem to one of those groups that everyone likes to dump crap on.

Oh joy, ANOTHER whining episode?

Mantonio, stop cheapening Worgen's fucking awesome avatar.

EDIT: Almost forgot... Whining? Movie Bob is not whining, he is complaining! Would you like to hear whining?

Thiiiis is whining! Uhhhh, these movies are so bad, they're going to flop, couldn't you have made them better? Awww, it's awful and they're so nasty! Why didn't you clean up the effects first, they're giving me physical paaain, and my workloads getting heavy, why do I have to do it?!?

 

[TheAmazingHobo]

Very nice, good points.
Especially the one about not using the nerd-mindset to justify spewing jokes about races or sex or generally using inflamatory, degrading stereotypes.

The point is of course utterly undermined by being posted next to Zero Punctuation and Jimquisition, so I feel I can be forgiven for completly and utterly ignoring the moral lesson at hand.

 

[lord.jeff]

I hate to say it, but you're doing it wrong.

I get that this is kind of your job right now. But you need to stop taking the internet culture so seriously. It's not meant to be taken seriously. Everything here is in good fun. Even if it can appear mean spirited to certain groups of people.

I disagree with the "it's the internet, so it doesn't mean anything" philosophy. It may have been true once upon a time when only a minority of people used the internet for fun or communication, but it's become so ubiquitous that it's simply unreasonable and unfair to expect people to just put up with mean-spirited or otherwise jerkish behavior.

Not everything is "in good fun." Some people enjoy the opportunity to be spiteful, cruel, and angry - and even those who don't actually mean any harm often don't think about how their words might impact the person reading them.

If you take what people say seriously, then you deserve it really. Because it's not hard to figure out the general facetiousness that goes on if you pay attention.

People respond to things differently, to assume everyone you meet on the internet, which is most the world at this point, is in on this everything is for the lolz joke is extremely arrogant, and to not be able to see things from that person side after they were insulted, jokingly or not they were still attacked, is just shallow.

 

[Giest4life]

Bob, how could you not allude to Nietzsche: "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you" (BGE, 146). I'll leave it at that.

 

[Orks da best]

I've heard Bob off-handedly mention ponies like four times now. He needs to go ahead and make an episode about it.

No. No. Definitely no. Those people don't need any more goddamned ammunition, and the threads don't need a new influx of fucking ponies.

Goodness. So much hate.

It's just a show. Leave it alone.

I don't recall revealing my feelings towards the show, so quit projecting.
And, yes, I am petitioning to "leave it alone".

In summation, lolwut?

aye aye aye.... the hate is unbeliveable, it seems ponies is a byword for hate nowdays....

but yes moviebob should make an epoisde about ponies, or the hub at least, please bob, do you want to rumors to grow?

 

[sir.rutthed]

I hate to say it, but you're doing it wrong.

I get that this is kind of your job right now. But you need to stop taking the internet culture so seriously. It's not meant to be taken seriously. Everything here is in good fun. Even if it can appear mean spirited to certain groups of people.

I really hate to be "that guy", but it doesn't matter if it's all in good spirit or not after a certain point. Take for example the 'Insanity Wolf' meme. Holy shit there's some crazy psychotic stuff purported by that meme and nobody seems to care one bit because it's supposed to be funny. It's not even really satire because there's no underlying subtext, it's just crazy shit that has no purpose other than a shock laugh and the internet as a whole disregards anyone who disagrees with the consensus. That's just one example but there's lots more. Saying something is all in good fun only works when you say it in reference to a close group of friends who know you're not actually a racist asshole.

 

[Eabus]

When Zoidberg scuttles he does not move, the universe does.

 

[Giest4life]

EDIT: Double post; The Escapist let me Ninja myself...

 

[GeorgW]

I agree with your points, except for the long post one. There's a time and a place for them, sure, but there's always a place for them. If you don't want to read a long post, don't, but some people like to go through an argument in great detail and others like to poke through that big detailed mess and come with counter-points. Why is that "doing it wrong"?


I've said it before and I'll say it again. The LCP rule is not about the amount of words you post, it's what you say with them. It's true that it's not always been like that, but I've never moderated a post just because the word count was low. I have however done so for meaningless "this^" posts and the "I'll just leave this here:" posts Bob mentioned. However keep in mind that this is a grey area, for more information feel free to check the Moderation FAQ. [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.309173-Moderation-FAQ]

That's not actually true.
If there was a way to view the history of posts I've reported you could tell that that wasn't the case.

I've read posts that were half a page of text where the entire post was "I fount a typo in your post, that means you're wrong."

That's low content, that's fluff, I call it negative content. but they never get moderated.
It is only word count and bad words the mods are looking for.


I'm sure you've seen threads where the OP asks a question with a binary answer. In that case people who answer in one or two words are being the most efficient and yet the first 3 pages of those threads are littered with unjust perma-bans.
Conversely you'll get people who answer the question then type "This is space filler so the mods don't ban me" which has no content, but they're always safe.

Either way the rules are broken and the mods are lazy, it has to stop.

As for your first point, you're right, I can't check your reporting history so can't really say anything there. Regarding the binary threads, there's a difference between simply answering the question and putting reasoning behind it. It entirely depends on the thread itself, some threads can be locked for provoking low content responses. For example, I once saw a thread where someone asked for ides for names or something like that. Posting a name there is providing to the thread and isn't low content. However if a thread would state "Do you prefer Coke or Pepsi?" (A thread that would get locked FYI) and someone would just answer "Coke" that's low content. This is a discussion forum, not a poll. We do have a poll option for threads, and if all your post amounts to is a stat point in that poll then why even bothering commenting if you can be just as well represented by a number in that poll?

Also, that space filler stuff is a sure fire way to get an infraction if I see it. I hate that stuff and shows complete lack of understanding of our Rules of Conduct. Unfortunately most people don't report that, which means it doesn't get mod attention.

It is also worth noting that there are differences between sub-forums. The FG and the RP forums are exempt from low content, and the featured comment threads (like this one) and the R&P forums are harsher regulated.

If you have any more questions or complaints I'd be happy to address them in PMs (don't want to derail the thread) and keep in mind that if anyone feel they've been unjustly infracted we have an appeal system and I encourage you to use it. Everyone makes mistakes, mods too.

 

[Agayek]

No. No it's not.

"In good fun" is the bully excuse. This is exactly what Bob is talking about.

I think you're misinterpreting his post. It's less "it's fun for me so I should do whatever I want" and more "none of it is serious, quit being butthurt". Honestly, he's right there. The vast majority of cases of racism, homophobia, elitism, etc that I've seen on the internet have been lacking any real bite or meaning behind it. Most of my "internet friends" throw around slurs with reckless abandon, yet not a single one is actually racist, sexist or whatever else. None of it is meant to be taken seriously or to be offensive.

 

[Dango]

I'm really sick of the sarcastic, cynical personality being a part of nerd culture, especially now that nerd culture is becoming mainstream and hipsters are adopting the same mentality, without any of the bullying that caused it.