The Biggest Hoax Of All Time?

toapat

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super_smash_jesus said:
I agree mostly with your statements. The earth is on a cycle, and the earth is technically "rebounding" from the last ice age around 12,000 years ago. It was cold, it gets warmer, thats how she rolls. However, it is hard to dismiss Carbon dioxide as a culprit of warming entirely, as it is adding to the extra heat, but not significantly. The decomposition of organic matter adds more CO2 to the atmosphere than all the cars on the planet running at the same time, so obviously the anthropogenic effects are minimal at best.

There is always something that generates a lot of interest in the world, right now it happens to be climate change. But most people that go "green" don't know the basics behind it to begin with. Methane is a higher cause of greenhouse gasses, just not in the abundance of CO2, yet it does more damage. Want to get rid of methane, then you will have to kill off half of the planets population, because it is emitted from our main food sources, rice, sheep, and cattle.

While I don't think global warming is the problem most people have made it out to be, I feel there are still good things coming from it. With emissions being monitored, there is less pollutants contaminating water or habitats that could destroy a species viability, so if that is the result of people over-emphasizing global warming, I can live with it.
my solution, while insane, would work: nuke india and china (no one alive in either country),bam, half the world's population gone
 

Samoftherocks

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TheLivingDaylights said:
That is not what I said. We are having a negative effect on our planet, but global warming is not one of those effects. What I am saying is that we don't need the lie of global warming in order to mave us protect the enviorment. I would know, I live in front of a Six-Acre wetland, and when the tide brings in trash, I pick it up. I'm not worried that the Earth is going to catch fire if I don't, I just don't want the trash making my planet ugly.
The other benefit to your picking up trash (very commendable) is that animals don't eat it. Don't you think that working to alliviate the problem of littering as being potentially symptomatic of the global environmental issues we face at large is worth the effort? Your statement that we should "sit back and enjoy the ride" doesn't exactly jive with your conservationist efforts around your home.

Just because someone says "we need to do something" doesn't automatically make them greedy or self-centered. Why is it that so many one side of the political spectrum view "truth" spoken by the other side as manipulative, status seeking, and fit to be ignored?
 

AfricanSwallow

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Yikes. Another one of these.


Global warming exists, and it is one of the only things that modern scientists have reached a consensus about.

Every so often we have a post like this, or some obscure scientific paper that challenges the notion that man-made climate change is happening, and all are swiftly debunked or exposed as illegitimate science.

Simply put, the idea that people are not causing climate change fails the tried and true what-is-more-likely test:

That there is a vast global conspiracy to make people think the Earth is getting warmer, and the conspiracy is re-enforced by people that somehow cause desertification, species extinction and polar ice caps to melt to continue the charade?

Or, that man made climate change is a reality that every single professional meterological organization, the UN, the governments of all the 1st and 2nd world nations all recognize and believe will impact the Earth - and our species, Homo Sapiens - negatively unless we begin to do something about it.

"Sit back, relax, and enjoy the show" is nothing but self indulgent laziness.
Unwilling to consider changing the unsustainable decadent lifestyle we now have, you are very much part of the problem, rather than the solution.

As far as: "adapt or die".
This is the most truthful statement in this post, although I'm sure it was completely by accident on his part.
Either we adapt to the reality of a changing environment as a result of our wildly unsustainable and reckless standard of living... and start to do things a little differently.....

... or we, and a great deal of the life that exists on this planet now, will die.

It might take some time, but it is certainly an inevitability at our current pace.
 

TheLivingDaylights

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super_smash_jesus said:
cuddly_tomato said:
super_smash_jesus said:
cuddly_tomato said:
The Sahara WAS a jungle just 5000 years ago. A mere single degree of Celcius temperate difference was enough to turn it into a desert.

Human pollution is changing the climate by that much per century, and accelerating it.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f4/Instrumental_Temperature_Record.png

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bc/2000_Jahre_Temperaturen-Vergleich.png

The biggest hoax are the governments who, rather than actually do make economic sacrifices for the sake of the environment, have managed to pull the wool over the eyes of supposedly educated people.
and don't quote wikipedia as fact too often, that will come back and bite you in the ass more often than not.
http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/graphs/Fig.A2.txt

NASAs data was used to compile that information.



The worlds temperature has risen half a degree in 50 years - fact.

Now that might not sound like too much, but imagine filling a kettle the size of the earth, and then trying to heat it up by half a degree. That is how much extra energy is in the earths air, oceans, and surface layers right now, and why we are getting more severe storms with higher frequency.

Yes, it has happened in the past. But it is happening now because of us. It isn't a hoax, it is pure fact. And it has never, as far as we know, happened in the past at such a fast rate change unless brought on by a major environmental catastrophe such as a super-volcano or meteor strike.
While the earth may be heating up, the timeline of your graph only goes back to the 60's, and generally proves about as much as "An Inconvenient Truth" does, which is not much in the grand sense of how old the Earth actually is. Look at the cycles from 3 million years back, and you will see that we are not even close to temperatures there once was. Was it human involvement back then that "caused" the increase in temperature? I am going to guess no.

Also, saying that something is Fact about Global warming is a no-no. There has been no undisputed evidence one way or the other. While some agencies like to point out that we are causing warming, there are 2 other agencies saying their data is not credible, and vice versa.

I have been in enough environmental classes, and worked at an environmental lab to know enough from both sides that human involvement cannot be attributed to the increase in temperature as a solid fact, however, it cannot also be proven that we didn't increased the rate of the temperature. It is just one of those topics that will get noweher before the people lose interest, or find another hot button topic.
Hallelujah!Hallelujah!

See what happens when you try to beat someone's actual knowledge with Wikipedia facts? You get Owned!
 

sheic99

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Megawizard said:
One of the coldest winters we've ever had. Yup; global warming.
That's the reverse side of global warming, which is why the term is now climate change. The summers are hotter, the winter's are colder and worse storms happen more frequently.
 

radioedit420

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I've always felt that Global Warming was just a natural occurrence that would happen, go away, and come back some day. As in the great warming before an Ice age. I feel that no matter what we do, it was going to happen, and then go away. I'm not saying pollution and greenhouse gases have nothing to do with it, just maybe because of them, this heating will be worse/longer, but in theory then the 'Global cooling' would be about the same.

**Nothing that we are witnessing is new to this planet. It has all happened before, for IMO nature is a cycle. Now we may have scratched the infected rash, making it worse, but it was going to happen IMO.
 

Hunde Des Krieg

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alloneword said:
Megawizard said:
One of the coldest winters we've ever had. Yup; global warming.
My sentiments exactly!

Look I'm not denying that we as humans have sped up whatever inevitable cycle that the earth undergoes, but to say that we've sped it up to a point where our generation, or even the next three generations needs to live in fear because of it.... Thats a little extreme.

I can guarantee that somewhere (probably in multiple places) there is some guy(or girl) sitting in the fetal position rocking back and forth muttering about the ice caps melting and killing us all.

Yes, the earth it getting warmer.

Yes, humans have probably contributed to the speed at which it is happening.

Yes, it's happened six times before almost wiping out all life on the planet.

So what? We've frakked ourselves out of this one. If this is going to happen, its going to happen. If that just so happens to mean that the human race gets obliterated in the process then we probably deserve it for sending Earth down this road in the first place.
It is very silly to think we will be obliterated by global warming. Our current civilization and society very well might, but we will adapt. We always do. Our species has survived everything from Ice ages, to super volcano eruptions to speculated ancient meteor impacts. Events that eliminated hundreds of other species. We will make it one way or another.
 

nolongerhere

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Nov 19, 2008
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TheLivingDaylights said:
That is not what I said. We are having a negative effect on our planet, but global warming is not one of those effects. What I am saying is that we don't need the lie of global warming in order to mave us protect the enviorment. I would know, I live in front of a Six-Acre wetland, and when the tide brings in trash, I pick it up. I'm not worried that the Earth is going to catch fire if I don't, I just don't want the trash making my planet ugly.
I'm liking you more and more. I see beaches near where I live, and they're covered in other peoples rubbish all the time. It's awful, especially when you see animals that have died eating it. There are many ways in which we damage the enviroment, but I don't think we have a massive effect on global warming.
 

Onyx Oblivion

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Sep 9, 2008
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All we have to do is make a giant air conditioner and put it into space.

Problem solved.
 

bad rider

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Dec 23, 2007
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cuddly_tomato said:
super_smash_jesus said:
cuddly_tomato said:
The Sahara WAS a jungle just 5000 years ago. A mere single degree of Celcius temperate difference was enough to turn it into a desert.

Human polution is changing the climate by that much per century, and accelerating it.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f4/Instrumental_Temperature_Record.png

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bc/2000_Jahre_Temperaturen-Vergleich.png

The biggest hoax are the governments who, rather than actually do make economic sacrifices for the sake of the environment, have managed to pull the wool over the eyes of supposedly educated people.
and don't quote wikipedia as fact too often, that will come back and bite you in the ass more often than not.
http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/graphs/Fig.A2.txt

NASAs data was used to compile that information.



The worlds temperature has risen half a degree in 50 years - fact.

Now that might not sound like too much, but imagine filling a kettle the size of the earth, and then trying to heat it up by half a degree. That is how much extra energy is in the earths air, oceans, and surface layers right now, and why we are getting more severe storms with higher frequency.

Yes, it has happened in the past. But it is happening now because of us. It isn't a hoax, it is pure fact. And it has never, as far as we know, happened in the past at such a fast rate change unless brought on by a major environmental catastrophe such as a super-volcano or meteor strike.
1883 -.24 -.25
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1883_eruption_of_Krakatoa
I looked at the data. In 1883 the eruption of mount Krakatoa occured. What the fuck does this have to do with the data you may ask? Well this Volcanoe's eruption created a sound wave that could be heard in reportedly in England, and changed how the sky looked, but looking at the data there was little or no immediate change. Now how can a volcanoe that pumped enough carbon dioxide into the ozone to happily kill thousands. So why is it the temps beforehand and after this cataclysmic event don't look off. I'd like to say nyahha, but there isn't any evidence beforehand and to claim an instantaneous effect would be hard. Was that study peer reviewed and are there any prior dates to 1880?

Edit: Also I'm sure I hearda good deal of talk about sunspot actgivity, I mean despite several disclaimers It's had the closest correlation to just be coincidental. Sorry I can't find the graph It was a newspaper article by two Australian blokes I think.

Note: Everytime I hear about global warming someone pulls out a chart and shows me that they carbon and temp look the same. If you look at sunspots It is the same so this always makes me question them. Especially as I would like to see an experiment which proves it, instead of just two lines look similar.
 

Samoftherocks

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Delicious said:
I don't think we have nearly as grand of an effect as we think we do it. We might have a small one, yes, but it is probably going to happen whether we happen to be here or not. The difference is when.

Hurray human egotism!
The whales would have a different opinion.
 

cuddly_tomato

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Nov 12, 2008
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super_smash_jesus said:
cuddly_tomato said:
super_smash_jesus said:
cuddly_tomato said:
The Sahara WAS a jungle just 5000 years ago. A mere single degree of Celcius temperate difference was enough to turn it into a desert.

Human polution is changing the climate by that much per century, and accelerating it.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f4/Instrumental_Temperature_Record.png

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bc/2000_Jahre_Temperaturen-Vergleich.png

The biggest hoax are the governments who, rather than actually do make economic sacrifices for the sake of the environment, have managed to pull the wool over the eyes of supposedly educated people.
and don't quote wikipedia as fact too often, that will come back and bite you in the ass more often than not.
http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/graphs/Fig.A2.txt

NASAs data was used to compile that information.



The worlds temperature has risen half a degree in 50 years - fact.

Now that might not sound like too much, but imagine filling a kettle the size of the earth, and then trying to heat it up by half a degree. That is how much extra energy is in the earths air, oceans, and surface layers right now, and why we are getting more severe storms with higher frequency.

Yes, it has happened in the past. But it is happening now because of us. It isn't a hoax, it is pure fact. And it has never, as far as we know, happened in the past at such a fast rate change unless brought on by a major environmental catastrophe such as a super-volcano or meteor strike.
While the earth may be heating up, the timeline of your graph only goes back to the 60's, and generally proves about as much as "An Inconvenient Truth" does, which is not much in the grand sense of how old the Earth actually is. Look at the cycles from 3 million years back, and you will see that we are not even close to temperatures there once was. Was it human involvement back then that "caused" the increase in temperature? I am going to guess no.
That is rather like saying that because we didn't make the dinosaurs go extinct, we had nothing to do with the extinction of the dodo. Just because global warming has occured without us before doesn't mean we aren't responsible for it now.

Also, yes the earth heated up in the past, and cooled, and heated, and cooled... but we weren't there to see it. We don't know what effect it will have on our the eco-system we all depend on. If we only had a ten or twenty million humans... ok. No problem. Let's just move to Canada or Siberia. But how the fuck are we to feed and provide water for six thousand million humans if we turn the earth into a desert?

super_smash_jesus said:
Also, saying that something is Fact about Global warming is a no-no. There has been no undisputed evidence one way or the other. While some agencies like to point out that we are causing warming, there are 2 other agencies saying their data is not credible, and vice versa.
I just showed you evidence. Show me any evidence the earth is not heating up. The only people who have, thus far, presented evidence in this thread are people advocating the "global warming is happening" fact theory. The fact the opposition can't produce similar evidence is very telling.

super_smash_jesus said:
I have been in enough environmental classes, and worked at an environmental lab to know enough from both sides that human involvement cannot be attributed to the increase in temperature as a solid fact, however, it cannot also be proven that we didn't increased the rate of the temperature. It is just one of those topics that will get noweher before the people lose interest, or find another hot button topic.
Global warming and environmental destruction is the biggest challenge humanity faces. And the longer we go without acting, the worse the situation will be. Even if you don't believe in these facts theories, what is the harm in trying to live around the natural world instead of destroying it?

If we act on my advice and I am wrong, we loose nothing. If we act on your advice and you are wrong, we loose everything.

bad rider said:
1883 -.24 -.25
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1883_eruption_of_Krakatoa
I looked at the data. In 1883 the eruption of mount Krakatoa occured. What the fuck does this have to do with the data you may ask? Well this Volcanoe's eruption created a sound wave that could be heard in reportedly in England, and changed how the sky looked, but looking at the data there was little or no immediate change. Now how can a volcanoe that pumped enough carbon dioxide into the ozone to happily kill thousands. So why is it the temps beforehand and after this cataclysmic event don't look off. I'd like to say nyahha, but there isn't any evidence beforehand and to claim an instantaneous effect would be hard. Was that study peer reviewed and are there any prior dates to 1880?
The carbon dioxide released into the atmosphere by Krakatoas eruption was, to a large extent, off-set by the sulphur dioxide it released (which reflects the suns rays). In fact if you read your link you will see the earth cooled for the year after...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1883_eruption_of_Krakatoa#Global_climate

Also, the amount of carbon released by that volcano is pretty small compared to human carbon emissions.

Look at what happened to the atmosphere, straight after the Industrial Revolution...

 

CIA

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TheLivingDaylights said:
Incorrect, the temperature was changed, but that was by the Earth's rotation and the new amount of sun exposure, not the temperature alone. You are twisting words, my friend.
Cite your sources please. I want to know were you get your information.
 

sgtshock

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Feb 11, 2009
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Maybe global warming is real, but it isn't nearly as big of a threat as people make it out to be. The earth simply goes into periods of hotter and cooler temperatures periodically, and even if humans are contributing to it, it isn't enough for it to be apparent. Show me all the easily manipulatable charts and statistics you want, but until I walk outside in January with a t-shirt and shorts, I'm remaining a skeptic.

Other things:
-Even if it does turn out that Global Warming is a true threat, how are we supposed to stop it without seriously hampering the economy and way of life? If we really wanted to end our CO2 emmisions, it would take a lot more than hybrid cars. If we're actually screwing ourselves over, its probably already too late anyway.
-People will say that almost all scientists agree that global warming is real. Maybe so, but if you were a scientist, what do you think would happen to your grant money if you spoke out against the scientific consensus? A lot of money is in the 'green' field, so your theories wouldn't be popular regardless of their credibility.
 

Nylarathotep

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Dec 11, 2008
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cuddly_tomato said:
That is rather like saying that because we didn't make the dinosaurs go extinct, we had nothing to do with the extinction of the dodo. Just because global warming has occured without us before doesn't mean we aren't responsible for it now.
Didn't we eat all the Dodos?

And introduce species that also eated them?
 

bad rider

The prodigal son of a goat boy
Dec 23, 2007
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cuddly_tomato said:
Also, the amount of carbon released by that volcano is pretty small compared to human carbon emissions.

Look at what happened to the atmosphere, straight after the Industrial Revolution...

Good point, however can you prove that global warming exsists without using correlation graphs. It implys causation without proof. (Sorry it just seems thats where your arguement is coming from.)

Edit: Hold on a minute the section covering the Global warming part on wikipedia is busted.... So I can't check the study can someone who has a wikipedia account edit It as I would like a citation.