The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim - Dawnguard Review
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Really don't know whether I want to get this or not. I'm just worried the DLC is going to be like every other quest in Skyrim: Talk to guy, go to city, talk to another guy, go to another city. The pattern repeats, so that I don't get into quests, I just watch a load of loading screens.
But Vampireeeeee!! Hard choice.
But Vampireeeeee!! Hard choice.
They literally send you from one corner of the map to the other about 15 times.JasonBurnout16 said:
It's like the KOTN but going from Anvil to Cheydinhall and back for every quest. I usually don't fast travel, but I couldn't see the value in walking past the same land marks 15 times.
See that's what I hate about a lot of the current open world games. You get given a quest by someone saying something like "Oh he just wandered out of town, he'll be in the local forest", then you check your map and it turns out that 'near town' is about a twenty minute walk away through some mountains and past a lake or something. It's quite similar to Kingdoms of Amalur in that respect - that game is ridiculous for sending you miles away for pointless quests.Soopy said:
QUESTION: Are any new monsters introduced? I don't mind about spoilers, I just want to know if there is added variety.
It's not a problem with sandbox games as such, more so developers using that as a padding aid to make the quest seem longer. I mean, if the quests in Skyrim all happened directly outside the city you got them from, the game would be 50% shorter. And it is if you fast travel.JasonBurnout16 said:
Yes, there are new monsters. Gargoyles, armoured trolls and some new Charus monsters to name a few.
So apparently no one played far enough to get the exploding crossbow bolts. That's part was pretty badass.
I mined a shellbug. I hated myself immediately. Why would the game trick me into that? So evil.Soopy said:
Oh and I play Dawnguard, not vampire. Purely because I'm a werewolf, who now have a proper perk tree and it's actually advantageous to play as one now. And there were these mentions of 'Totems' in the perks, and since I have no werewolf abilities, there must be some sort of quest associated.
My brother plays vampire, I play werewolf - it's usually how we handle multiple choice storylines. I'm good guy, he's bad guy. His vampire lord seems more suited to levelling up in combat, but it didn't look as satisfying as cutting a gory swathe across Skyrim as a werewolf, where I gained perks from devouring the corpses of, first the people, then the animals I killed.
And...seemingly randomly - my brother created a Breton female archer/spellcaster, and after an awkward debacle in the Riverwood inn, a courier showed up. In his underwear.
"I've got a package here. Your hands only."
Now those look like vampires. Not the bullshit "Our skin gets paler and we can eat people's necks in their sleep" bullshit that TES has had going for awhile. This is Nosferatu stuff.
Looks good. Too bad it's not out on PC yet :l
Looks good. Too bad it's not out on PC yet :l
$20 seems a fair price to me when you compare Dawnguard to other Bethesda add-ons. It's not as large and expansive as Shivering Isles (which was $30), but it's much more interesting and substantial than Knights of the Nine and a lot of the Fallout 3/NV dlc.
I actually found the first half of the dlc up to and including the Soul Cairn to be really quite dull. However, the second half of the dlc was quite superb, especially the part where you travel to the Forgotten Vale. Skyrim never looked so darn pretty!
I actually found the first half of the dlc up to and including the Soul Cairn to be really quite dull. However, the second half of the dlc was quite superb, especially the part where you travel to the Forgotten Vale. Skyrim never looked so darn pretty!
If you go back to the companions and do some quests with, eh... I forgot her name... the red head werewolf gal (if she isn't dead). She gives you a few quests over time that earn you totems.Thyunda said:
The totems change a few things (there are 4 I think), but more often then not they make it worse. For example, 1 totem changes your howl so instead of making enemies flee it allows you to see enemies through walls, but this actually makes using a werewolf more difficulty since the terror howl enabled you to fight multiple enemies and feed during fights. The new perk tree might actually improve that, but I have yet to see whats on it.
OT: Skyrim seems to have garnered a lot of anti-fans on this site. The game seems to be doing tremendously well and I'm really looking forward to this DLC... I hope Beth keep adding free content, some of those stealth additions shown in the game jam would be most welcome. Also, enchanted arrows, make it happen.
I will say at the very least Bethesda FINALLY put an NPC in the game that didn't feel like a mannequin. Serana I found to be very interesting with some actual depth to her. Plus it helps that she's voiced by Laura Bailey (a.k.a. Catherine, Chun-li, Platinum the Trinity, and a BILLION anime voices) who actually puts some emotion and effort into her lines.
It's frustrating that the first DLC for Skyrim assumes that everyone loves or wants to be a vampire. Vampires are lame.
I love the idea of being vampire hunter. That just sounds like it could've been a B.A. experience... but in Skyrim it is not.
It would've been nice if the Dawnguard had some sort of powers to make them worth playing as much as the vamp.
I love the idea of being vampire hunter. That just sounds like it could've been a B.A. experience... but in Skyrim it is not.
It would've been nice if the Dawnguard had some sort of powers to make them worth playing as much as the vamp.
In theory, sure. In practice, the only reason you make that claim is because that's what you're told. Nothing that happens in the game ever proves that claim; nothing really demonstrates that you are, in fact, the incarnation of anything other than a badass. The Dovahkiin can prove he/she is that thing because of the Shouts. The Nerevarine has no such concrete claim. You're basically just told, "You're this guy. Trust me." And that's that.Soopy said:
As for antagonists, if you want to compare Alduin with Dagoth, at least Alduin is present in the game. 99% of Morrowind's plot is spent running around doing seemingly arbitrary things that you only know are necessary because people swear to you that they are; you don't even meet the big bad until about five minutes before you kill him, much less interact with him in any significant way. Alduin might be an inconsistently present threat, but Dagoth Ur is comatose by comparison to the dragon's activity. Could just as well "defeat" him by keeping the mountain sealed off and ignoring it as far as I could ever tell by playing the game. Alduin may only be flying around waking up dead dragons, but at least it's something you can see happening.
Yeah, I'm torn on whether I like the shout system or not. On the one hand, it makes playing non-mage characters have a lot more variety compared with the previous games (in which playing a warrior/rogue consists solely of "continue swinging until dead"). On the other, it really does strip down the merits of magic, particularly coupled with the already much streamlined magic system compared with past games in the series (though, granted, I kinda hated the old magic system, so while I recognize the oversimplification taking place, I can't say I mourn the loss of the old build-your-own-spells feature overmuch).shintakie10 said:
As a story mechanic, however - which is why I brought it up - they do indisputably mark you as That Guy for purposes of being their chosen person for the plot, as compared with just some helpful adventurer who happens to be saving the world (see above re: Nerevarine).
What you're describing is a very simple, mainstream-friendly plot, which is probably why we were given just that in Skyrim. Morrowind's story was a lot better than Skyrim's. It had craft, style, emotion, depth, intrigue, mystery and so on that was missing or fell flat in Skyrim. The Dovahkiin is the first player character who is a superman. The Nerevarine and the Champion of Cyrodiil were just badass dudes fulfilling a prophecy. I think that is a much better story but the superman approach has broader appeal.Shjade said:
I agree to some extent. They had an explanation for why you had to unite the Great Houses and such but it was kind of weak and it wasn't expressed in gameplay. You can take Nibani Maesa and Caius Cosades' word that it's a practical necessity but the player does not experience any evidence of that. I also agree that Elder Scrolls games do not lend themselves to race-against-the-clock storytelling, which is what they have done in III, IV, and V. If you know you can't do it justice then don't do it. But it wasn't emphasized nearly as much in Morrowind.
However, I think Morrowind's approach to the Nerevarine had a lot more craft and style than Skyrim's Dovahkiin and was way more emotionally rewarding. Basically all the things you are criticizing are things I liked. There were elements of mystery and discovery in Morrowind. No one knew if the prophecy was real or if you were it's fulfillment. Not even the player knew until you received Azura's blessing and met the failed Nerevarines. Even then, many remained skeptical including the Blades themselves. This doubt left room for political intrigue, mystery and more rewarding challenges. The mystery, skepticism, and divided loyalties made the story better, not worse. Skyrim missed an opportunity by not doing this, but I guess they couldn't copy Morrowind too closely. Not everyone believes you are the Nerevarine, and that made the story more exciting.
On the other hand, you know you are because you piece it together before being flatly told. You fulfill the prophecies as you go, you wield his artifacts that only he can wield, and finally a freaking Daedric Prince tells you so and makes you it's champion. You have the powers the Nerevarine is supposed to possess like resistance to all diseases including the dreaded corprus. That was a pretty clear and dramatic demonstration. It may not have been as dramatic as the dragon shouts but it wasn't ambiguous either. And like I said, you're not supposed to be superman. Just a badass.
In Morrowind you spent your time fighting an active and dangerous Sixth House Cult. You even get accosted and attacked in cities by sleepers and dreamers. You certainly saw all that happening. There's nothing wrong with saving the big-bad for the final showdown as long as it's built up properly and given interesting relevance to the audience, which it was.
When you finally became the Nerevarine, it was very rewarding because it not only resolved a mystery but also served as pay-off for all your work so far. In Skyrim you just kind of get it at the beginning. And you don't even know or care what a Dragonborn is because the game did not build up to it like in Morrowind. It wasn't exactly an emotional high point. I can't think of any emotional high points in Skyrim to be honest, even though it was packed with interesting stuff. Maybe Sovengarde, but that was more about the concept. All it really had was the appeal of being superman. I liked Skyrim's story, honest I did. It just doesn't compare to Morrowind.
Ah, I knew I'd forgotten things. Disease resistance when facing a foe whose major strength seems to be disease certainly is a pretty good thing! Maybe I'm just too pragmatic a person, but from my point of view the whole Nerevarine thing was never all that big an issue because, well, it was irrelevant. Most of the tasks given were things anyone seemed capable of doing with proper training and experience, so I pretty much assumed it didn't matter if people calling me Nerevarine were right or not - same things getting done either way. Legends based on kernel of truth, etc.Rooster Cogburn said:
As for the other bit, though, I can't say I interpret being attacked by crazies as a representation of a big bad thing doing bad things. Crazy people do crazy stuff; if it wasn't for Dagoth Ur it'd be for something else. For all I knew their cult was based on something that didn't even exist anymore, much less pose a threat to anyone. It's hard to be motivated to combat an antagonist that isn't...well, antagonizing. I was happy to kill the cultists and dreamers when they wanted to kill me, sure, but all that told me is crazies wanted to kill me.
I think the major point we both agree on is Bethesda's choice of driving plots for their TES games has been...ill-advised, let's say. "Really, this dragon-raising business is that urgent, is it? It can't wait for me to spend a few months bailing out miners' daughters from being kidnapped by fanatics or chilling with cannibals in a cave? ...oh, it can wait? Cool, I'll get back to you on that Dovahkiin thing, then." Yeah, that's some compelling stuff. -.-
I think we're just looking for different things in the story. I like the fact that you are not a superman in Morrowind. You're just an adventurer who gets caught up in larger things and discovers power within himself/herself. The tasks given to you were suitably epic, you just have to understand that the Nerevarine is about fulfilling prophecy. It's not a magic cape. To me that would cheapen it.Shjade said:
The people who attacked you were driven to madness by Dagoth Ur's evil powers and the Sixth House Cult. If you didn't stop it from spreading, everyone would become his corprus beasts or dead. He had extensive fortifications all over Vvardenfell and about a third of it was lost to his abominations. And they were pretty frickin' scary. I mean this kind of relates to the ticking clock thing- nothing is that threatening because in the back of your mind you know Balmora isn't really about to erupt in violence. But it's not like the threat was totally absent.
I understand why Bethesda writes stories that way. Obviously, the easiest and laziest way to create drama is to threaten that the world is going to blow up like now. I actually liked the story in Fallout 3 a lot because they didn't do that for once.