The Gay Community.
- Thread starter Valen_Starwalker
- Start date
I doubt I have anything very insightful to say about this topic, but I haven't really seen this problem in many of my gay friends. I actually see it a lot more in "bisexuals" (bisexuals in quotes because some of them seem to be bisexual in name only). And no, I'm not saying "all bisexuals are like this" or something like that. I just see it as more common in the people I've met. And yes, I'd gladly tell you whatever I find observably more common in any gender, group, race, etc. No, I'm not claiming it to be the way it really is or saying it should inform your opinions of individuals in a group. It's anecdotal information, do with it what you like.
I do agree that it's pretty shitty to post "heterosexual couples are more likely to beat their kids" on FB. I wouldn't post "gay men in the US are statistically more likely to have aids" on my Facebook feed, even if it is true. If it was tongue in cheek, I could see it working, but I'd have to question if it was. Inflammatory statistical data spewed without context hardly ever amounts to bridges being built. It's like this one friend of mine who constantly posts these "tattoo acceptance in the workplace" photos. It's mostly just images accompanied by arrogant quips against nameless strawmen who don't like tattoos and broad satistical data or something. I HAVE a couple of tattoos and I found it aggravating after a while.
I do agree that it's pretty shitty to post "heterosexual couples are more likely to beat their kids" on FB. I wouldn't post "gay men in the US are statistically more likely to have aids" on my Facebook feed, even if it is true. If it was tongue in cheek, I could see it working, but I'd have to question if it was. Inflammatory statistical data spewed without context hardly ever amounts to bridges being built. It's like this one friend of mine who constantly posts these "tattoo acceptance in the workplace" photos. It's mostly just images accompanied by arrogant quips against nameless strawmen who don't like tattoos and broad satistical data or something. I HAVE a couple of tattoos and I found it aggravating after a while.
Right, that would be assuming they were right to "gaybash" for those reasons in the first place... Them simply being true of some people does not A) Excuse hate-mongering or B) Allow for blame of the victim. What you are saying is akin to this(however this will be a simplified version to highlight the flaw): "I hate you for being gay... AND YOU ADMIT TO BEING GAY! Therefore I am right to hate you for it."FitScotGaymer said:
Obviously, do not "bash away".
I'm gay myself. There are assholes in any group of people. For me, though, it's the people that make being gay the most important thing about themselves that annoy me the most out of the gay community. If you're fighting for equality and to be treated like everyone else, maybe, I don't know, act like everyone else and don't isolate yourself from the rest of society based on the sole characteristic that you want society to not treat you differently for.
Guh.
Really, being gay shouldn't matter. It shouldn't be your defining characteristic. It's not mine. If being gay is the most interesting thing about you, you're not a very interesting person.
Guh.
Really, being gay shouldn't matter. It shouldn't be your defining characteristic. It's not mine. If being gay is the most interesting thing about you, you're not a very interesting person.
I can't be arsed to read anything after the OP, but I simply find it funny there is apparently a "gay community" when the idea of a unified "straight community" would be considered laughable. People are different, straight or gay. Find better gays to hang out with.
This is where I stopped thinking this was going to be a civil thread and more about the preconceived notions that you hold to a group of people.Valen_Starwalker said:
Congrats on having an isolated event happen with two gays on your Facebook that reflect poorly on their character and not their sexual orientation or the entire community of people who share that sexual orientation.Valen_Starwalker said:
In closing, I'm just going to juxtapose these two bits of your argument and let them sit next to each other as I feel this is funny.
Valen_Starwalker said:
Valen_Starwalker said:
Says the person who has never been to one..blackrave said:
I have, it's absolutely nothing like that.
But seriously.. it does matter, doesn't it? If you're "acting just like everyone else" you're not gay, because the only way to "act like everyone else" is to only date or have sex with members of the opposite sex. Sure, you could fake it and make sure noone ever has to see you doing anything remotely gay, but what the fuck.. if it shouldn't matter, then why does it matter if it's obvious?Aetera said:
If I go out wearing a band shirt, it's not because liking that band is my "defining characteristic" or the most interesting thing about me, and it would be idiotic for anyone to look at me and assume that it was. It wouldn't show that I was an uninteresting or one-dimensional person, it shows that they're a shallow person because they can only register one thing about me before switching off.
Whenever someone brings up the "Gay Community" I wince a bit. Being gay myself, I rather resent that they are what people think of when "Gay Community" becomes a topic of discussion. I just... Hell's Bells. I'll just let 2 sum it up.
I really don't see any merit in responding to a group that attacks you in generalistic terms by using equally generalistic terms in response.
I kind of see it as something of a cycle. One group feels set upon and hated by another, a few twerps from that group act like dicks in response, so people see them act like dicks and figure they are all dicks and act like dicks in response. It's a cycle alright, a cycle of horseshit.
First step, remember that the most visible element of any group is not necessarily the majority. Second step, stop acting as if it is.
Optional third step, actually get to know some folks. The Gay community around here is a pretty upstanding bunch as a rule. I am certain there are a few cretins among them, but I have yet to meet any such. One of the coolest guys I ever met was gay. He certainly never seemed to carry any hatred or resentment of me for being straight.
At the end of the day, how you see something is an artifact of how you experience them. Broaden your perspective and then judge. But not as some obnoxiously generalized whole and paint them all with the same brush. That just feeds into the cycle I already pointed out.
I will echo others in saying this thread is going nowhere good.
I kind of see it as something of a cycle. One group feels set upon and hated by another, a few twerps from that group act like dicks in response, so people see them act like dicks and figure they are all dicks and act like dicks in response. It's a cycle alright, a cycle of horseshit.
First step, remember that the most visible element of any group is not necessarily the majority. Second step, stop acting as if it is.
Optional third step, actually get to know some folks. The Gay community around here is a pretty upstanding bunch as a rule. I am certain there are a few cretins among them, but I have yet to meet any such. One of the coolest guys I ever met was gay. He certainly never seemed to carry any hatred or resentment of me for being straight.
At the end of the day, how you see something is an artifact of how you experience them. Broaden your perspective and then judge. But not as some obnoxiously generalized whole and paint them all with the same brush. That just feeds into the cycle I already pointed out.
I will echo others in saying this thread is going nowhere good.
Wow. Just wow.Valen_Starwalker said:
A handful of people do something stupid, and you blame the entire gay community. A lesbian says "sure, one or two of us say stupid things, but your attack on all gay people is offensive" and you claim she's a straight-hater. Really?
Congrats - by posting how much you hate the gay community, you have convinced gay people that you hate them. And this surprises you? Really?
Now, I could tell you why you're wrong, why you're being a bigot (whether or not you generally are on, you are acting like one in this post) but - why bother. I'm not going to waste my time or energy. Enjoy your self-fulfilling prophesy.
You've got a pretty nasty case of assuming a few cases are indicative of the whole, friend. That's not good. But, there's more at work here than you might think. Addressing the entire "gay community", a group of people diverse in every conceivable way united only by their fondness of their own gender is remarkably small minded. Telling such a wide and diverse group that they need to "grow up" shows your bigotry, because it's expressing an inherent desire that you think the whole idea of homosexuality as an identifying agent is something people will grow out of, regardless of how you intended it to mean on paper. Next, you're calling someone out on trying to fight a system that is oppressing them, and as an admitted part of the system that is oppressing them, you saying that their argument is juvenile is viewed by them as oppressing them more. Most everyone who doesn't identify as cissexual feels a very strong oppression from society, the government, and the media, and as such, they have to find their own way to fighting such aggression. In pointing out that fewer children of same-gendered parents are abused, they are pointing out that there is a social validity to same-sex marriages--and you sit there and call it disrespectful, and call them juvenile as a community for trying to gain ground they've never had in all of western culture?Valen_Starwalker said:
Guess we see who really needs to grow up. In complaining, generalizing, and trying to garner support for your bigoted argument, you've shown your puerile, bigoted, small-minded hand. I suggest you go sit in the corner and think about this. Hopefully it changes you for the better, and you start trying to understand where people are coming from, instead of wanting to cut them down as they start.
Source of my following post's credibility: I'm gay
I found the problem within the 2nd block of text.
1) You say majority, but I can pretty well assure you that it's just a very vocal minority. Trust me, I hate ignorant, arrogant, self-righteous, rude, and disrespectful assholes, gay or straight, as much as the next guy. Which brings me to the next problem of your observation.
2) You say that you find the gay community this way, but really, humanity in general can be summed up by saying that we're all ignorant, arrogant, self-righteous, rude, and disrespectful assholes. Obviously we're not all like that and it's just a vocal minority again. Just like the gay community.
Basically, don't let a few assholes' actions be your reason of generalizing a whole group of people because, gay or straight, we are just people and some people are assholes while others are not.
I found the problem within the 2nd block of text.
There's two issues that I have with this text right here.Valen_Starwalker said:
1) You say majority, but I can pretty well assure you that it's just a very vocal minority. Trust me, I hate ignorant, arrogant, self-righteous, rude, and disrespectful assholes, gay or straight, as much as the next guy. Which brings me to the next problem of your observation.
2) You say that you find the gay community this way, but really, humanity in general can be summed up by saying that we're all ignorant, arrogant, self-righteous, rude, and disrespectful assholes. Obviously we're not all like that and it's just a vocal minority again. Just like the gay community.
Basically, don't let a few assholes' actions be your reason of generalizing a whole group of people because, gay or straight, we are just people and some people are assholes while others are not.
Gay people face an awful lot of shit for being gay, so I say give them a bit of leeway. They're pissed off and angry and have every reason to be.
This reminds me off when certain parts of the trans community started using the phrase "Die cis scum", and it was basically the biggest controversy within the community for a long time, and that seems fucked up to me. We get more in an upset about trans people saying nasty things to cis people, than when cis people kill trans people. Geez.
This reminds me off when certain parts of the trans community started using the phrase "Die cis scum", and it was basically the biggest controversy within the community for a long time, and that seems fucked up to me. We get more in an upset about trans people saying nasty things to cis people, than when cis people kill trans people. Geez.