The Half-Naked Elf Problem
- Thread starter Shamus Young
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This is pretty much spot on. And a 'not entirely covered in metal' suit might convince me to roll a male character for once which is something I regularly don't do.Shamus Young said:
They should all have a system like Champions Online. Your gear has absolutely no effect in what you wear. And you can swing around with a half naked dude as much as you want. The customization of your character can be done pretty much anytime you want (unless inside a dungeon, I think) and you can dress however you like. You can even put some skirts on guys if you want to.
Now, if there's a way to know what gear another person has on PVP I have absolutely no idea, but then again, I don't give a poop about PVP.
Now, if there's a way to know what gear another person has on PVP I have absolutely no idea, but then again, I don't give a poop about PVP.
The easy solution to all of this is to simply allow players to choose what sort of clothing they want. If they want to dress in a overtly sexual manner for their female characters then let them, but just make it so that they could also choose to dress normally. Not much we can do about characters canonically dressing that way in the cutscenes, but hey baby steps as they say.
Also I hate the term immersion and breaking immersion when it comes to video games. What is that even supposed to mean? You feel like you're part of the story, the video game world itself? Bullshit. It's a video game, it is a hobby, something you play to have fun. No amount of good writing or story telling is going to delude the line between reality and fiction for me. Besides I find it awfully petty that something as petty as clothing options going to ruin this so-called "immersion".
If you actually look at the definition of immersion it is defined as: "The state of consciousness where an immersant's awareness of physical self is diminished or lost by being surrounded in an engrossing total environment." I am always aware of myself when I play video games, I may be captivated by good video games and their stories but I never get lost in them.
Also I hate the term immersion and breaking immersion when it comes to video games. What is that even supposed to mean? You feel like you're part of the story, the video game world itself? Bullshit. It's a video game, it is a hobby, something you play to have fun. No amount of good writing or story telling is going to delude the line between reality and fiction for me. Besides I find it awfully petty that something as petty as clothing options going to ruin this so-called "immersion".
If you actually look at the definition of immersion it is defined as: "The state of consciousness where an immersant's awareness of physical self is diminished or lost by being surrounded in an engrossing total environment." I am always aware of myself when I play video games, I may be captivated by good video games and their stories but I never get lost in them.
Star Wars Galaxies probably had what everyone is looking for. It had two options for wearing armor/clothing, where each piece could be equipped as normal for stats, or "appearance" for just that. It also had hundreds of clothing items / armor pieces in hundreds of colors so you effectively dress your character however you wanted, and each piece looked the same on either male or female. The only problem you really ran into were the rare pieces of clothing that were gender-specific (for some reason, females couldn't wear Tusken Raider outfits, and males couldn't wear bikinis).
It seemed like the closest to a perfect system for this kind of thing I've seen yet, but of course, no one can see it anymore due to the game being shut down. Everquest 2 has the appearance option, but sadly has infinitely fewer clothing options, and the problem with the same piece looking different between genders. Oh, and it doesn't cost money like WoW's system.
It seemed like the closest to a perfect system for this kind of thing I've seen yet, but of course, no one can see it anymore due to the game being shut down. Everquest 2 has the appearance option, but sadly has infinitely fewer clothing options, and the problem with the same piece looking different between genders. Oh, and it doesn't cost money like WoW's system.
Armor eh.... interesting concept but swimwear is in this season. I know!
Later
It appears all the women are dead, and some men too. Oh well come here you man stallion.
Anyway I'm going to say the fuzzy race is pushing a boundary that should be left alone. They look like cartoon children who had been abused by a mother with an obsession for beauty pageants. Scantily clad and children are not things that should EVER be put together.
Later
It appears all the women are dead, and some men too. Oh well come here you man stallion.
Anyway I'm going to say the fuzzy race is pushing a boundary that should be left alone. They look like cartoon children who had been abused by a mother with an obsession for beauty pageants. Scantily clad and children are not things that should EVER be put together.
I still can't believe they implemented it to be so incredibly tedious.Marohen said:
Rift did it way better by simply providing several wardrobe sets where the first one is free.
It has to be your callings favored armor class or a special costume type of armor though.
You can even tick a box for showing no armor at all for every slot so you can play as a warrior who fights giant dragons in his underpants.
Sadly there are no weapon slots in the wardrobes though there are some "costume" weapons.
In Perfect World, you have your gear, and then you have your fashion. One is actual armor, the other is just for looks and you can toggle which set you want to show.
As pretty much all the armor is ugly people usually show fash. It is also nice to make people actually target you in range and click show info to see your real gear.
DC online has a system of letting you "learn" new gear types and then independently enabling each gear slot to look like any other piece of gear you've acquired.
So you get a new "techno watzit" boot and like it so you select it for looks while still having your old stuff equipped.
It amounts to all new loot being parceled out based on whether they have that style already and a game of dressup. At least it seemed to encompass the entirety of my roomates time with it. When he wasn't doing the same instances over and over and over and over for the crap to unlock the best gear.
I'll totally check out Tera when it goes free to play I think. Seems like it could be interesting. Though idk if my pc will run it well enough to be lag free.
As pretty much all the armor is ugly people usually show fash. It is also nice to make people actually target you in range and click show info to see your real gear.
DC online has a system of letting you "learn" new gear types and then independently enabling each gear slot to look like any other piece of gear you've acquired.
So you get a new "techno watzit" boot and like it so you select it for looks while still having your old stuff equipped.
It amounts to all new loot being parceled out based on whether they have that style already and a game of dressup. At least it seemed to encompass the entirety of my roomates time with it. When he wasn't doing the same instances over and over and over and over for the crap to unlock the best gear.
I'll totally check out Tera when it goes free to play I think. Seems like it could be interesting. Though idk if my pc will run it well enough to be lag free.
This is an idea that should always have been a part of an MMO, but one that won't really solve the problem. The majority of those that are bothered by this will not be satisfied by the fact that you can make YOUR character not look like a slut, it's the fact that a bunch of other characters DO look like sluts will still draw the same reactions.
In other words, good idea, but it won't solve the problem you're trying to solve.
In other words, good idea, but it won't solve the problem you're trying to solve.
Maybe you forgot or somehow weren't paying attention, but most 13-14 year old girls have, in fact, gone though most of the dramatic puberty changes i.e. they have boobs.FelixG said:
As some women have stated before and as the article state I don't really mind chainmail bikinis if 1. You actually get to choose it. If that's what you want fine, I don't care. or 2. if the men are dressed similarly.
But something that I really hate is sexualizing an outfit that isn't supposed to be sexual.
Case in point
Now I'm not necessarily upset with Ashley's sex appeal update...I think it's rather out of character for her but...whatever. Pick your battles and all and Ashley was dead in my mass effect anyways.
Getting to the point though...this uniform is FUCKED up. Why? Because of that slit where her clevage is trying to strain free of its clothy bonds. Why is that there? I don't remember a slit over the chest in the men's alliance uniforms. So why is there one for the females? It doesn't do anything. It doesn't make it easier to wear, it doesn't make it classier...It is OBVIOUSLY there just so you can see boob and that's messed up.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all up for some eye-candy, male and female both...when it's appropriate. This is an Alliance navy uniform, it's essentially dress blues if I'm not mistaken! What the fuck?
But something that I really hate is sexualizing an outfit that isn't supposed to be sexual.
Case in point
Now I'm not necessarily upset with Ashley's sex appeal update...I think it's rather out of character for her but...whatever. Pick your battles and all and Ashley was dead in my mass effect anyways.
Getting to the point though...this uniform is FUCKED up. Why? Because of that slit where her clevage is trying to strain free of its clothy bonds. Why is that there? I don't remember a slit over the chest in the men's alliance uniforms. So why is there one for the females? It doesn't do anything. It doesn't make it easier to wear, it doesn't make it classier...It is OBVIOUSLY there just so you can see boob and that's messed up.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all up for some eye-candy, male and female both...when it's appropriate. This is an Alliance navy uniform, it's essentially dress blues if I'm not mistaken! What the fuck?
I've been a 13-year-old girl. I looked a lot more grown-up than that at 13, as did my classmates. It's loli, people. Prepubescent-looking toons in baby doll nighties is pure loli, even if you shove fox ears on them. Deny all you want, my only response is, "methinks the lolicon doth protest too much."FelixG said:
Just to be certain we're talking about the same thing I'm speaking about the second and third pictures of Ashley, not the first with the zipper down.animehermit said:She's wearing it more casually is probably the correct answer. I would imagine if worn correctly it would look pretty similar to today's military garb for women.Screamarie said:As some women have stated before and as the article state I don't really mind chainmail bikinis if 1. You actually get to choose it. If that's what you want fine, I don't care. or 2. if the men are dressed similarly.
But something that I really hate is sexualizing an outfit that isn't supposed to be sexual.
Case in point
Now I'm not necessarily upset with Ashley's sex appeal update...I think it's rather out of character for her but...whatever. Pick your battles and all and Ashley was dead in my mass effect anyways.
Getting to the point though...this uniform is FUCKED up. Why? Because of that slit where her clevage is trying to strain free of its clothy bonds. Why is that there? I don't remember a slit over the chest in the men's alliance uniforms. So why is there one for the females? It doesn't do anything. It doesn't make it easier to wear, it doesn't make it classier...It is OBVIOUSLY there just so you can see boob and that's messed up.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all up for some eye-candy, male and female both...when it's appropriate. This is an Alliance navy uniform, it's essentially dress blues if I'm not mistaken! What the fuck?
At least they give Ashley an armor option for combat.
In the second and third image, the slit doesn't have any buttons. It doesn't have a zipper. It's just a slit over her boobs. Tell me how she's supposed to wear that more formally?
I'm well aware. Doesn't mean it's not still wrong.animehermit said:Screamarie said:Just to be certain we're talking about the same thing I'm speaking about the second and third pictures of Ashley, not the first with the zipper down.animehermit said:She's wearing it more casually is probably the correct answer. I would imagine if worn correctly it would look pretty similar to today's military garb for women.Screamarie said:As some women have stated before and as the article state I don't really mind chainmail bikinis if 1. You actually get to choose it. If that's what you want fine, I don't care. or 2. if the men are dressed similarly.
But something that I really hate is sexualizing an outfit that isn't supposed to be sexual.
Case in point
Now I'm not necessarily upset with Ashley's sex appeal update...I think it's rather out of character for her but...whatever. Pick your battles and all and Ashley was dead in my mass effect anyways.
Getting to the point though...this uniform is FUCKED up. Why? Because of that slit where her clevage is trying to strain free of its clothy bonds. Why is that there? I don't remember a slit over the chest in the men's alliance uniforms. So why is there one for the females? It doesn't do anything. It doesn't make it easier to wear, it doesn't make it classier...It is OBVIOUSLY there just so you can see boob and that's messed up.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all up for some eye-candy, male and female both...when it's appropriate. This is an Alliance navy uniform, it's essentially dress blues if I'm not mistaken! What the fuck?
At least they give Ashley an armor option for combat.
In the second and third image, the slit doesn't have any buttons. It doesn't have a zipper. It's just a slit over her boobs. Tell me how she's supposed to wear that more formally?
Maybe that's why they cut those out? That design isn't in the game btw, that image you linked is concept art.
I'm going to make broad statement about high-testosterone males here:
If this game DIDN'T have half-naked women elves with miniskirts revealing their undergarments, would you have even taken a second glance at this game? I don't know about you, but if I were to see two headlines, one about a nuclear threat from North Korea, and another with a phrase that has any one of these two words or its synonyms: women and naked, my first instinct is to click on the latter.
Luckily, before I click on it, I remind myself of why I'm clicking on it and I go sit in the corner and condemn myself for being such a primitive ape. I can just GOOGLE the phrase "naked women" if that's what I want to see!
I'm going to admit that the only reason I'm posting here is because of the headline. I know, it's sad, it's pathetic, but dammit, it's how I am, and companies are well-aware of this as well. Give one example of any kind of advertisement that has an average-looking female. And I really do mean average. Post one advertisement featuring a female that has no makeup, has zits, moles, a little weight, anything that would deteriorate the Hollywood-standard of a perfect-looking woman.
They exist, but they're extremely rare.
Games are not the only forms of entertainment that does this. Sexualizing females is pretty much everywhere, and it's a good marketing decision (as much as I'd hate to say it). It's a good way to get (heterosexual) male's attention to make us pay long enough attention to what they're advertising.
However, I'm not totally against this. We're sexual creatures, and it's the way we're wired. The only thing I ask is... you know what, I'll just point to Move Bob:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/the-big-picture/4719-Gender-Games
If this game DIDN'T have half-naked women elves with miniskirts revealing their undergarments, would you have even taken a second glance at this game? I don't know about you, but if I were to see two headlines, one about a nuclear threat from North Korea, and another with a phrase that has any one of these two words or its synonyms: women and naked, my first instinct is to click on the latter.
Luckily, before I click on it, I remind myself of why I'm clicking on it and I go sit in the corner and condemn myself for being such a primitive ape. I can just GOOGLE the phrase "naked women" if that's what I want to see!
I'm going to admit that the only reason I'm posting here is because of the headline. I know, it's sad, it's pathetic, but dammit, it's how I am, and companies are well-aware of this as well. Give one example of any kind of advertisement that has an average-looking female. And I really do mean average. Post one advertisement featuring a female that has no makeup, has zits, moles, a little weight, anything that would deteriorate the Hollywood-standard of a perfect-looking woman.
They exist, but they're extremely rare.
Games are not the only forms of entertainment that does this. Sexualizing females is pretty much everywhere, and it's a good marketing decision (as much as I'd hate to say it). It's a good way to get (heterosexual) male's attention to make us pay long enough attention to what they're advertising.
However, I'm not totally against this. We're sexual creatures, and it's the way we're wired. The only thing I ask is... you know what, I'll just point to Move Bob:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/the-big-picture/4719-Gender-Games
The nudity factor in Tera is just ridiculous. It really makes me not want to play the game at all, despite the fact I find the combat to be completely fun. I just can't stand all of these naked women running around, and then hearing that the most naked a female character can get is wearing plate armor at high levels. The MOST naked armor is PLATE. That doesn't even make sense!
Also, the jiggle physics are so bad. SO bad. NPCs standing still just looking around will suddenly have their boobs jiggle even though they are barely even moving. It's weird. It's really, really weird. And stupid.
Also, the jiggle physics are so bad. SO bad. NPCs standing still just looking around will suddenly have their boobs jiggle even though they are barely even moving. It's weird. It's really, really weird. And stupid.
I liked Mabinogi's solution to the "dress practically or fashionably?" dilemma.
--disclaimer: I haven't played the game in years, so this may not hold true anymore, but at the very least, it did when the game was first released in the U.S.--
In Mabi, your armor doesn't really matter. Seriously. You have the best armor in the game equipped? Good for you, you'll still die in three hits if you screw up. So, in the end, EVERYONE ends up dressing according to aesthetics. Also, I knew people who dungeoned ass naked because there was no point in letting your clothes take hits to their durability. They weren't protecting you and there was a chance you'd fuck them up when you repaired them, so it wasn't worth the risk. The same was sometimes true of weapons, too, matter of fact.
In that game, it was more important to grow your character's abilities and use them with the proper timing than it was to have the end game equipment set.
--disclaimer: I haven't played the game in years, so this may not hold true anymore, but at the very least, it did when the game was first released in the U.S.--
In Mabi, your armor doesn't really matter. Seriously. You have the best armor in the game equipped? Good for you, you'll still die in three hits if you screw up. So, in the end, EVERYONE ends up dressing according to aesthetics. Also, I knew people who dungeoned ass naked because there was no point in letting your clothes take hits to their durability. They weren't protecting you and there was a chance you'd fuck them up when you repaired them, so it wasn't worth the risk. The same was sometimes true of weapons, too, matter of fact.
In that game, it was more important to grow your character's abilities and use them with the proper timing than it was to have the end game equipment set.
Good suggestion Shamus. I have some friends starting on Tera, and as an MMO I probably won't after a fallout with WoW, but if I did I'd want a feature as was offered to allow optional beachwear rather than mandatory.
I really hope you're kidding here, it's funny if you think that the only problem with it is that women are showing skin. We actually don't need to look sexy all the time, you know. Certainly not when we are wearing a full suit of armor. I mean, really... really?DVS BSTrD said:
It does, however, bring up my thoughts on this:
What if I want to play a bad-ass? Seriously, I'm a girl, if I'm playing a game where I my character requires armor, I am obviously playing a game where combat is a major focus. This is not an "I want to look my prettiest" situation. I want to look like a friggin bad-ass. If I'm carrying a massive sword, I want to look like I might be strong enough to actually swing it and smart enough to protect my friggin midriff in a battle.
It's pretty obvious by the huge muscular men and hardcore armor that is so standard to most genres that men like to play games to feel like bad-asses. We do too! Why should we have to look sexy all the time? I like that feeling of getting off work and relaxing by turning into an online warrior too, you know. I just want to be able to look like one. Why can't women look hard too?
I quit WoW a while ago, but I played for years. Most of my characters were male just because they are the ones who get to actually look like they could battle. I loved my female Pally, but mostly because I found it hilarious and cute that her tiny frame would be swinging around this massive axe. She shouldn't look hilarious and cute - she should look awesome.
I agree completely with this article, but even if every game moving forward implemented this, it wouldn't fix anything. Male devs would just think what this guy thinks: "Surely a practical full-body armor suit can be made to look sexy?" ...and they start using the same armor with the 'skin' part swapped out for an 'armor-like' color and call it a day. Instead of choosing between sexy and badass (which is what it should be, ideally) we will simply be choosing which type of sexy we prefer. The way I see it, unless there is a major shift in the way armor models for women are thought about generally, there won't be any actual choice.
SWTOR has the same problem, only the inverse is true. There is a class dedicated to wearing skirts that go down to your ankles, and if you want the best armor you have to wear them.