The Half-Naked Elf Problem

[90sgamer]

Fact: if you like how the women in Tera are dressed then you are a juvenile delinquent.
Fact: it breaks immersion and all sense of taste to be running into battle wearing protective gear that amounts to little more than a thong and bikini.
I think the author's idea is reasonable, but if I were a developer I would elect to keep senseless filth out of the game altogether. Gaming needs to grow up past the females as sex objects thing and juveniles who get off on this stuff need to get touched by someone of their preferred sex.

 

[Irridium]

It's something I like about The Old Republic. Nothing is really that revealing or sexy. Quite a few things are utterly ridiculous looking, yes, but they aren't revealing.

Well, except the heavy robe Jedi Guardians get at the end of Tython. On men it's a shirt, on women it's a bra.

And the dancer outfit, though that's only available as a "social" item. Meaning you have to have a certain amount of social points (you get 'em by completing quests with people) if you want to wear them.

But that's the only one I've seen.

I think I just talked about this last week in my cartoon:
http://www.serialmmogamy.com

I think I would be more comfortable with the sexual objectification of an MMO avatar if it was an equal-opportunity objectification. If YOU can have the choice of playing a half-naked FEMALE avatar, why am I not given the opportunity to play a half-naked MALE avatar?

Leslee

I second this. How come the women get to run around with no pants on, but I can't? It's not fair dammit! I was so glad when I saw the dancer outfit in TOR. Then my heart sank when it said female only.

Just not fair.

 

[Kahunaburger]

As for western MMOs... well, I can't remember any recent western MMO whose women are as scantily clad as TERA's.

Other than the Leia bikini in TOR, you mean?

 

[WanderingFool]

You know, when I first started reading the article, I wasnt going to finish it, and just write it off as another thing about chainmail bikinis. Good thing I did keep reading. I wish games like Skyrim let me do this (I love the Thalmor's hooded-robes, but love the stats my Nightshade(?) armor from the theaves guild gives me.)

 

[tmande2nd]

I like how Jade Empire did it.

Yes women were scantily clad but so were lots of the guys too.
Hell Tiger Shen had no shirt.


If the ladies have to dress like that the guys to do.
Which is why I lol'ed at Origins lady armor.
Uhm the point of armor is to cover your chest, not say SHOOT ME RIGHT HERE

 

[Xenominim]

The method Shamus just mentioned has been in place for DC Universe Online for a REALLY long time (may have been in at launch, I dunno didn't play at launch), you pick up new items that come with looks attached, you put it on and it changes your look, HOWEVER if you want you can go into the appearance options and lock an item.

This was in at launch and it was one of the cooler features of the game. You had a decent selection when you start the game of different clothing items, plus your char's appearance, dye them however you want, and then once you're in game you never have to change appearance if you don't want. The fact you could actually keep the appearances even after you sold the armor and select them from a dropdown bar was nice too, so you could gather a huge collection of different costume pieces to mix and match as you wanted, and they'd always stay the same colors as the one you chose in chargen so stuff would always match. But then you'd still have the pieces you were actually wearing providing the stats, whether they were visible or not. It's the way really any clothing system should work I think since it lets you build a 'closet' of clothing choices, whereas Shamus's system would still require you to keep the low level clothing, which means taking up inventory space if you want multiple options.

 

[Kahunaburger]

Yeahhhh... im not comfortable with whoever designed those. Stay the fuck away from me

+1

Wow. What the fuck. Not okay, developers.

OT: This is my problem with the idea in the article. In the unlikely event that I were to play a MMO, I would prefer it not feature pedophilia-related shit, at all, ever. Giving players the option to pick between pedo and non-pedo gear would not make it okay.

 

[Alphalpha]

What about a system such as the one in Morrowind? There clothes and armour were different things and could be worn layered over each other. So if you have armour equipped it shows on your character but you could wear cosmetic clothing over (cloak, mantle, cape, robe) or under (pants, shirt, gloves) it.

Alternatively, why not have the ability to have equipment smithed or tailored with custom trim and decoration?

 

[Crazy Zaul]

Rift has the 1 outfit for stats, 1 for appearance thing too.

But really how ever many people there are that don't like objectifying women, they will always be vastly outnumbered by those who do.

 

[Nurb]

Actually i have heard of Tera, the biggest thing i heard about it is that is basically has a "Scantily Clad Loli" class. No seriosuly look;

Yeahhhh... im not comfortable with whoever designed those. Stay the fuck away from me

It's an adult female of that fuzzy race, only with smaller boobies compared to the gazungas on the other characters. I think people are being too pedo-paranoid and games are a bit silly to get weirded out over considering most gamers have beaten and burned innocent people to death in GTA or Saints Row. But that's just me, I've never come across anything in a video game that "shocked" or weirded me out.

If anything it's more of an issue of sexual dimorphism.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BizarreSexualDimorphism

 

[Kahunaburger]

Actually i have heard of Tera, the biggest thing i heard about it is that is basically has a "Scantily Clad Loli" class. No seriosuly look;

AHHHH MAKE IT GO AWAY

Yeahhhh... im not comfortable with whoever designed those. Stay the fuck away from me

It's an adult female of that fuzzy race, only with smaller boobies compared to the gazungas on the other characters. I think people are being too pedo-paranoid and games are a bit silly to get weirded out over considering most gamers have beaten innocent people to death in GTA or Saints Row. But that's just me, I've never come across anything in a video game that "shocked" or weirded me out.

If anything it's more of an issue of sexual dimorphism.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BizarreSexualDimorphism

Yeah, I'm sure they just "happen" to look exactly like underage girls dressed in sexualized outfits. Clearly pandering to IRL creepy people had nothing to do with this character design. Far be it from me to trample bluehole's artistic integrity.

 

[Yal]

Actually i have heard of Tera, the biggest thing i heard about it is that is basically has a "Scantily Clad Loli" class. No seriosuly look;

Haha, wow. It's amusing that there are no males, you can see right where the devs drew the line. An entire race of ten-year-old catgirls who never invented trousers, sure, but little boys? Eww, that would be creepy.

I don't mind chain mail bikinis, or even lolis really, in a single player game, but MMOs feel like public spaces to me, and I'm not on pants-off terms with any of you people. Some fantasies are not to be shared with strangers.

 

[Chemical Alia]

Actually i have heard of Tera, the biggest thing i heard about it is that is basically has a "Scantily Clad Loli" class. No seriosuly look;

Yeahhhh... im not comfortable with whoever designed those. Stay the fuck away from me

It's an adult female of that fuzzy race, only with smaller boobies compared to the gazungas on the other characters. I think people are being too pedo-paranoid and games are a bit silly to get weirded out over considering most gamers have beaten and burned innocent people to death in GTA or Saints Row. But that's just me, I've never come across anything in a video game that "shocked" or weirded me out.

If anything it's more of an issue of sexual dimorphism.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BizarreSexualDimorphism

That this fuzzy race resembles four-year-olds in metal thongs was a conscious decision on the part of an actual developer, you know. They didn't just "get that way" out of nowhere, and characters aren't designed in a vacuum.

 

[Nurb]

Spoiler

Actually i have heard of Tera, the biggest thing i heard about it is that is basically has a "Scantily Clad Loli" class. No seriosuly look;

Yeahhhh... im not comfortable with whoever designed those. Stay the fuck away from me

It's an adult female of that fuzzy race, only with smaller boobies compared to the gazungas on the other characters.

Really? Because Those are clearly loli fox girls. They are the same size as children, they are proportioned like childen. They clearly stray into loli territory. I hope there are no tentacled boss monsters because i know exactly where that would go. *sigh* I've been on the internet too long...

I still think you're being too paranoid, but if they are what they are, am I the only one that thinks it's hilarious they'd be kicking the asses of other characters in PVP? People are taking vidya games too seriously.

"THIS LOLI IS GANKING ME!" Ha! XD

If people get off on anime characters that's their own problem. It looks like a grindfest anyway.

That this fuzzy race resembles four-year-olds in metal thongs was a conscious decision on the part of an actual developer, you know. They didn't just "get that way" out of nowhere, and characters aren't designed in a vacuum.

Whoa, I don't know where you're seeing 4 year olds, I've never seen one with wide hips.

 

[Lvl 64 Klutz]

I'd like to point out something that seems to get overshadowed by the talk of sexism. First, let me admit that I tend to play female avatars in MMO's that "morph" armor depending on gender. Not because I want to stare at a lady's bare cheeks while slaying goblins, but because the designers put more effort into the female armor in these games.

Yes, the armor is usually morphed into something overly revealing that should have been dry cleaned instead of machine washed, but it's also a hell of a lot more ornate than on the male avatars. So yes, I Stand with the people who say "I'm okay with the females getting skimpy armor, as long as males do too," but I'll adjust it to say that all I ask is that designers put as much effort into the simple *aesthetics* of male armor as they do with female armor.

One game that does this really well?

Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning

 

[mattaui]

The solution that will satisfy nearly everyone is what's slowly working across most of the MMO space, and that's some form of wardrobe or cosmetic armor slotting. Cosmetic armor solves several problems, as mentioned, and even for armor that isn't revealing, some pieces just make you wonder if the designer purposefully set out to punish whoever decided to wear it.

The sexy versus non-sexy armor debate (as it's not sexy versus realistic, since plenty of non-sexy armor is also unrealistic) is going to come down to personal choice and what an individual is after. I know guys and gals who fall on both sides of the line, though yes, a lot more guys want their female toons scantily clad than they want their male toons scantily clad (but some definitely want both). We can't forget the classic loincloth wearing barbarian or jungle hunter, so there's definitely a tradition of barely clothed men to go along with the barely clothed women (see Frank Frazetta, Boris Vallejo and Julie Bell just to name a few.)

It's also amusing that some commentary regarding revealing or impractical female armor starts to take on an almost moralizing tone that I'd expect to hear from social conservatives bemoaning the state of today's youth, or whatever. As one of my female friends remarked, she hates it when other women (not to mention men!) try to tell her what she should find offensive or demeaning.

 

[Kahunaburger]

It's also amusing that some commentary regarding revealing or impractical female armor starts to take on an almost moralizing tone that I'd expect to hear from social conservatives bemoaning the state of today's youth, or whatever. As one of my female friends remarked, she hates it when other women (not to mention men!) try to tell her what she should find offensive or demeaning.

I think that's missing the point, somewhat. The type of objectification with female avatars is incredibly unpleasant [http://geekfeminism.org/2012/03/14/a-jedi-needs-not-games-to-fail-ableism-fat-hatred-heterosexism-and-misogyny-in-star-wars-the-old-republic/] to some women. The same way the pedo shit you see above is incredibly unpleasant for those of us who would rather not look at pedo shit in our games. So when dudes wonder why more women don't play MMOs, there's your answer.

 

[Vault101]

I think you can be attractive WITHOUT wearing outfits that are downright rediculous and almost plain insulting

I mean this shit right here is unacceptible

[http://photobucket.com/images/female%20master%20chief]

 

[Woodsey]

Pah! If it's gay to watch men thrusting their junk in thongs, I don't want to know what being straight is anymore.

 

[mattaui]

It's also amusing that some commentary regarding revealing or impractical female armor starts to take on an almost moralizing tone that I'd expect to hear from social conservatives bemoaning the state of today's youth, or whatever. As one of my female friends remarked, she hates it when other women (not to mention men!) try to tell her what she should find offensive or demeaning.

I think that's missing the point, somewhat. The type of objectification with female avatars is incredibly unpleasant [http://geekfeminism.org/2012/03/14/a-jedi-needs-not-games-to-fail-ableism-fat-hatred-heterosexism-and-misogyny-in-star-wars-the-old-republic/] to some women. The same way the pedo shit you see above is incredibly unpleasant for those of us who would rather not look at pedo shit in our games. So when dudes wonder why more women don't play MMOs, there's your answer.

I won't argue in the slightest that there's excessive objectification of women in most games, and that post you linked seems to deal less with the choices that players make, and more choices that the designers have made. I'd be all for equal opportunity eye candy and for games to take a much wider view of the human experience. Also, I've always been under the impression that quite a few women play MMOs, though I know not in the numbers that men do, but at a greater number than many other types of games.

Star Wars wasn't ever going to be that game, given Lucas Arts and its strangely hidebound view of the world. I was disappointed with the game in many ways, several of which that article does cover nicely, so I appreciate the link.

I'm just trying to think of the easiest and fairest way of letting people get as creative and outlandish with their fantasy characters as they want, but certainly we're going to run into barriers and lines that people don't want to cross. I'm likewise very uncomfortable with the child-like characteristics of that race you mentioned, and judging by the thread here, so are a lot of people.

But when we're talking about female objectification, is it going to come down to the sex of the player at the keyboard? Is it bad when a man is making his female toon look 'excessively sexy' but not when a woman does? Or is it all in the intent behind the decision to dress them that way, regardless?