The Half-Naked Elf Problem

[Shia-Neko-Chan]

...

So, yeah, Bassik is right.

What the hell is wrong with the god damn internet today?

Your quoted post by "the other tera fan" does nothing for your argument. The only thing close to your argument here was that he said "loli". Generally, that's used for all short, cute female anime characters, even those that have breasts (even if it is rare), no matter the personality, voice, or age and is irrelevant. If he'd said "underage" then sure, I'd see what you were saying, but by saying "loli", that's not necessarily what he meant.

What the quoted tera fan was disappointed with was the development team succumbing to American culture and censoring something that was really harmless in the first place, as was I, because again, short and under-endowed in the chest area does not automatically mean child and I retain that.

I don't know if he was disappointed in the censorship for the same reason I was, but whenever something that you approve of is censored because of everyone else, you're going to be disappointed by it.

 

[Kahunaburger]

@SajuukKhar & @Shia-neko-chan: You guys know where the word "loli" comes from, right?

 

[Shia-Neko-Chan]

@SajuukKhar & @Shia-neko-chan: You guys know where the word "loli" comes from, right?

its origin is irrelevant. The word's meaning has evolved since it was coined.

 

[Kahunaburger]

@SajuukKhar & @Shia-neko-chan: You guys know where the word "loli" comes from, right?

its origin is irrelevant. The word's meaning has evolved since it was coined.

Uh huh. Keep telling yourself that.

 

[Shia-Neko-Chan]

@SajuukKhar & @Shia-neko-chan: You guys know where the word "loli" comes from, right?

its origin is irrelevant. The word's meaning has evolved since it was coined.

Uh huh. Keep telling yourself that.

I'm not sure what to tell you. The term's meaning has been changed for a while, you can deny it if you want, but there's no sense in arguing it with someone who really wants to paint someone else as a pedophile when there isn't any real proof. :/

 

[SajuukKhar]

@SajuukKhar & @Shia-neko-chan: You guys know where the word "loli" comes from, right?

I wouldn't be surprised if you thought the word Hentai = anime porn.........

Words change thier meaning based on where they are used.

That the origin of the word Loli comes from a book were a man becomes obsessed with a 12 year old girl doesn't change the fact that the definition has changed.

Using your logic the word gay can only = happy in all cases also?

 

[Negatempest]

Now is the argument pedophilia is bad or is the argument present actually the collision of different cultures taking their own stance on a subject? I'll talk about the derailment topic first.

Could the avatars look like children? Sure, but that doesn't not mean that they are viewed as sex objects by the creatures, maybe something as cute or sexy, but not to have sexual intercourse with. For instance in the USA there are toys sold to little girls that promote motherhood, baby dolls are just a small example, and what comes to our mind is usually "adorable" or "cute". What doesn't register is "She will make a great mother right now, better find a good husband for her." Now if the Avatar in the game was running around in a bib, rattle, baby bottle, or a doll than that would be of some concern. At the moment, I just see a clash of culture, not what is moral. As for the main topic...

I wanna get this off my chest real quick. In the worst case scenario the women in MMO's are dressed as are high class escorts, NOT prostitutes, whores or strippers. They wear pretty damn expensive and quite frankly beautiful pieces of clothing that would, of course, catch the eye of a patron. The bras arn't frilly or extremely vibrant. I can't even remember the last time an actual thong was worn as a piece of armor in an MMO. At best there are a handful of examples of "Bikini Armor" that exists in MMO's which are usually hard to get. As for being "practical"....*sigh* When a guy who in a full set of armor fights a creature that is far more powerful than a T-Rex...you expect me to think that anything about that situation is smart or practical? In most MMO's you'd be dead long before reaching lvl 10 considering what is thrown at you and you want realism and practicality in Armor only? What of the guards that send you on B.S. quests to do THEIR work for them? Or saving an entire village or city and all you get is XP sometimes....

I'm just saying that realism and practicality in a game is either never going to happen or is total B.S.

p.s. NPC's don't count. They are already gods and can pretty much be naked and still take hits far better than a player in elite tier gear.

 

[Moromillas]

Seven hells, why are people still talking about this pedo thing. It's a fantasy game where you fly on Pegasus horses and fight stupidly large monsters with enormous swords and magic. It's not real, it's a pile of pixels. And if pedos really do play the game because of some cutesy bunny ear race, who gives two shits! They're NOT REAL! They don't exist anywhere in reality. It's not the same thing as some guy parking outside of a school waiting for the kids to come out.

 

[kuolonen]

Seven hells, why are people still talking about this pedo thing. It's a fantasy game where you fly on Pegasus horses and fight stupidly large monsters with enormous swords and magic. It's not real, it's a pile of pixels. And if pedos really do play the game because of some cutesy bunny ear race, who gives two shits! They're NOT REAL! They don't exist anywhere in reality. It's not the same thing as some guy parking outside of a school waiting for the kids to come out.

I am pretty sure theres a law against arguments with reason in the internet. Please turn yourself in at the nearest police statition, you are upsetting the mentally challenged.

OT: I think the title is an oxy moron. How can half-naked elf ever be a problem? Elf chicks are hot and the elf dudes are chikish enough to be hot as wel.

As for the loli class, thats pretty epic troll material right there. Find the skimpiest dresses available for the class, run through crowded areas and watch reactions while sipping some fine wine. Bonuspoints for claiming to be 12 year old in general chat.

 

[The.Bard]

Yes, this is an old issue. Humor me. I know how to fix this. By pointing out games that have already fixed this and calling it my own idea.

Wow, that's pretty novel there, Shamus.

I know how to fix the energy crisis. Humor me. It's called solar power. I'm a genius! Woooooo!

 

[BanZeus]

Maybe I'm just an armor nerd but the idea that your gear's form can be completely divorced from its function bothers me more than the actual appearance of the armor.

Also maybe it's too early in the morning but I honestly can't get behind the "moral outcry" over the stripper armor, jiggle physics and hobbits-du-jour. If Tera's visual style doesn't appeal to you, there are literally thousands of other games you could be playing instead.

 

[Darkmantle]

Can I just say that I would rather have a pedo getting off to his/her tera avatar than actually preying on a real child? Is that an unpopular opinion right now?

 

[Belated]

Some of you people seem to be confusing "sexy" and "sexist". They are not the same thing. There is nothing wrong with revealing outfits. There is nothing wrong with showing off a little skin and being proud of your hard-earned figure. (Though I don't know why you'd want to be "proud" of a virtual figure you designed in a game. That doesn't take months in the gym or the avoidance of donuts.)

And there is certainly nothing wrong with wanting to play something that arouses you. Arousal is a natural human emotion. Just as we're OK with fiction appealing to every other human emotion, we should be OK with fiction appealing to arousal as well, unless you're a puritan trying to send us back to the Dark Ages. Evolution gave us these feelings, and I can think of no greater arrogance than to suggest that you know better than evolution. (If you believe God made us, this argument works just as well.) There is nothing shameful about indulging in these natural feelings.

And let's not forget that our standards of "decency" in this society are completely arbitrary. We could just as easily be living in a culture right now where pretty much everybody walks around in something skimpy when it's hot out, men and women alike. A lot of indigenous tribes didn't think there was anything wrong with that. Something can only be "revealed" if it was hidden in the first place. So to think of these outfits as "revealing" is to imply that the body is something that should be hidden. The human body is nothing to be ashamed of. It's ridiculous that some people still get so disgusted at the sight of a little skin showing.

The "sexist" part regarding skimpy outfits is true IF, AND ONLY IF the following are true all at once:
-Skimpy outfits are the VAST majority of options for women.
-There are no, or very few skimpy options for men.
-The game is marketed to both men and women.

That last one is important. Playboy magazine, for example, only features women in skimpy outfits. But it's not marketed to women. It's for men. (Well, straight men anyway. And I'm sure some lesbians buy it. Which is fine.) If Playboy advertised itself as something straight women should pick up too, that would be sexist. And the same is true of these games. I don't know a lot about Tera, so I don't know if it fits all three of those qualifications, but the point I'm making is that skimpy outfits in and of themselves are not sexist. And if you're upset about them, the solution isn't to remove them, but add more of them for the other sex.

 

[MetallicaRulez0]

I gotta be honest, the half naked jail bait anime cat chicks from Tera almost make me want to play that game.

Oh, and I guess the gameplay looks kinda cool too. Whatever.

I really don't have a strong opinion about this. I usually play female characters in MMOs, just because I prefer the sleek agile aesthetic to the hulking monstrosity aesthetic. It's difficult to make a male character who doesn't look like the incredible hulk with boulders attached to his shoulders. I certainly prefer the scantily clad female characters to the overly-armored male characters.

 

[w00tage]

"Some guys don't want to have to be ashamed of their videogame of choice because it looks like cheap, pandering trash."

^^ That's me right there. I need to be able to trust that people seeing me play a game aren't going to consider ME a perv because somebody else in the game couldn't let his crotch alone while (un)dressing a virtual character in a video game.

I would say the real answer is to provide a selector so players see other players' clothing according to the VIEWING player's preference. Call it the ESRB Level Selector (or whatever) and have it swap the type of clothing seen according to the rating.

I think the core technology already exists in character detail level settings which swap textures based on distance, so this is an expansion of existing tech and not a whole new deal.

 

[Darkmantle]

You know, I think it would be nice if mmo's just let you customize your armour more. I hate showing up in the starting town looking exactly the same as 50 other guys.

just a pet peeve though

 

[Farseer Lolotea]

Rift did it way better by simply providing several wardrobe sets where the first one is free.
It has to be your callings favored armor class or a special costume type of armor though.
You can even tick a box for showing no armor at all for every slot so you can play as a warrior who fights giant dragons in his underpants.
Sadly there are no weapon slots in the wardrobes though there are some "costume" weapons.

Seconded.

Sure, you get a few people running around in their skivvies. But, first of all, there are skivvies involved. Secondly, all things considered, there aren't that many people doing it.

I'm really surprised that the dev's don't see that this 'male demographic' excuse is a big vicious circle.

Because that would require them to take responsibility, to some degree, for perpetuating it in the first place. Which would mean stepping outside of their comfort zones and taking a good long look at themselves.

Also, Elin are creepy as hell. I don't care about their stated backstory: Hips aside, they still look like prepubescent girls. (No, they could not pass for petite, flat-chested women. Their proportions are almost entirely childlike.)

 

[Tsun Tzu]

Now is the argument pedophilia is bad or is the argument present actually the collision of different cultures taking their own stance on a subject? I'll talk about the derailment topic first.

Could the avatars look like children? Sure, but that doesn't not mean that they are viewed as sex objects by the creatures, maybe something as cute or sexy, but not to have sexual intercourse with. For instance in the USA there are toys sold to little girls that promote motherhood, baby dolls are just a small example, and what comes to our mind is usually "adorable" or "cute". What doesn't register is "She will make a great mother right now, better find a good husband for her." Now if the Avatar in the game was running around in a bib, rattle, baby bottle, or a doll than that would be of some concern. At the moment, I just see a clash of culture, not what is moral. As for the main topic...

I wanna get this off my chest real quick. In the worst case scenario the women in MMO's are dressed as are high class escorts, NOT prostitutes, whores or strippers. They wear pretty damn expensive and quite frankly beautiful pieces of clothing that would, of course, catch the eye of a patron. The bras arn't frilly or extremely vibrant. I can't even remember the last time an actual thong was worn as a piece of armor in an MMO. At best there are a handful of examples of "Bikini Armor" that exists in MMO's which are usually hard to get. As for being "practical"....*sigh* When a guy who in a full set of armor fights a creature that is far more powerful than a T-Rex...you expect me to think that anything about that situation is smart or practical? In most MMO's you'd be dead long before reaching lvl 10 considering what is thrown at you and you want realism and practicality in Armor only? What of the guards that send you on B.S. quests to do THEIR work for them? Or saving an entire village or city and all you get is XP sometimes....

I'm just saying that realism and practicality in a game is either never going to happen or is total B.S.

p.s. NPC's don't count. They are already gods and can pretty much be naked and still take hits far better than a player in elite tier gear.

This. Exactly this. In every regard.

Well done, sir or madam.

 

[likalaruku]

I say give people the choice at character creation. "What do you want to play as? Fully dressed man? Fully dressed woman? Stripper? Zed from Zardoz? Crossdresser? Female crossdresser?"

Admit it; seeing a buff axe-wielding Dwarf in a pink lace dress would make your day. If you disagree, here is a picture of Sean Connery in a wedding dress: http://pics.blameitonthevoices.com/092011/small_sean%20connery%20wedding%20dress.jpg

 

[Miral]

I'm not sure if someone has already brought this up or not (because hey, nine pages), but: the cosmetic armour system Shamus is talking about from LOTRO is already in Tera (and has been the whole time, as far as I know). You have costume slots and you have dyes. I don't know how varied the options are, though, I only played for a little bit of open beta and haven't bought the game. (Although one thing I did try that works in LOTRO but sadly not in Tera: you can't convert a regular armour piece to a costume piece, at least not directly in the equip UI. Maybe there's a vendor for that though.)