The misinterpretation of evolution

[Amphoteric]

I've been a Christian all my life and so I've grown up detesting evolution.

But I just ask one thing. Someone send me a site or a video or something that has nice and solid evidence that proves it's true. Now I'm still going to believe in Creationism/Intelligent Design (there is actually a surprising amount of historical evidence that lines up God's creation timeline with the natural history timeline) but I just want to see where the scientists who are studying evolution are getting there beliefs from.

Who knows? I may even change my mind. (Even though that is highly unlikely.)

This is a really concise video that proves evolution. Just watch it.

The person that is explaining it is a Catholic.


By the way, that is just ONE of the many, many facts biologists have to prove evolution. We have our evolutionary history written all over us.

 

[joecool5000]

I've been a Christian all my life and so I've grown up detesting evolution.

Why should that be? Even Pope John Paul II said evolution is probably true.

Well, actually the basis of Darwin's evolution was to rebel against the idea that God created the world. That it all just randomly happened with nothing overseeing it. So most Christians reject the idea because of it. But obviously we can't prove anything. All we believe is that there definitely is a God. So we figure that God created the universe. So I suppose we aren't necessarily detesting the theory of evolution itself, but the reason for which it was thought of in the first place.

 

[BrassButtons]

Well, actually the basis of Darwin's evolution was to rebel against the idea that God created the world.

Source?

It is my understanding that the basis of Darwin's evolution was to study the natural world and see what he could learn from it, because that was his passion.

 

[trollnystan]

Well, actually the basis of Darwin's evolution was to rebel against the idea that God created the world. That it all just randomly happened with nothing overseeing it. So most Christians reject the idea because of it. But obviously we can't prove anything. All we believe is that there definitely is a God. So we figure that God created the universe. So I suppose we aren't necessarily detesting the theory of evolution itself, but the reason for which it was thought of in the first place.

What? I'm sorry, but I've read articles and books that deal with evolution, albeit in a layman way, and if they mention Darwin most of them describe his struggle with his faith in God and the way his theory pointed towards there being no god.

In the end, IIRC, he was against religions but was still a Theist. He in no way set out to disprove God's existence; in fact he was still a Creationist when he first set sail on the Beagle to begin his studies.

/5 cents (someone more knowledgeable than me is welcome to correct me)

EDIT: And with "layman way" I mean in a way that a layman can understand. Just thought I'd clarify =)

 

[evilneko]

Well, actually the basis of Darwin's evolution was to rebel against the idea that God created the world.

Yeah, gonna have to call bullshit on that line of Creationist propaganda.

Since you have already been provided with plenty of reading material, I figure I'll go ahead and link you to some video material. potholer54's channel [http://youtube.com/user/potholer54] contains possibly the easiest to understand science videos on youtube. cdk007 [http://youtube.com/user/cdk007] is more in-depth but might leave less scientifically-literate folk lost, though the Blind Watchmaker video should be fairly easy for anyone to understand.

 

[Flac00]

I will start off by saying I am no scientist. However, I have noticed that almost everywhere (including here on the Escapist) many people do not understand evolution. This not just simple missteps like accidentally involving use and disuse into your arguments, but major misinterpretations. But this is not the problem, simple misunderstanding and misinterpretations are not somehow horrible offenses. However this has lead to a problem.
These misinterpretations have now lead to a whole culture of people who not only refuse to believe in evolution, but also use their misinterpretations to fuel their arguments. An example of this run amok by ignorants is "Social Darwinism" (which is an extremely annoying name as Darwin had nothing to do with "social darwinism"), which was really just and excuse to "prove" racism. A modern example is half the population of the United States (or less since I have not checked recent polls). That's right, around 50% of the population of the United States does not believe in evolution, and that is sad. Especially since the scientific theory has undergone so much criticism and a constant wave of evidence, that it has become almost completely infallible. And yet people still live ignorant of it as they have been misinformed about evolution.
This all comes down to a single point. Why and how is this happening? Is it because our media seems to commonly ignore facts? Is it because people jump onto bandwagons just to get away from the "norm" of evolution? Is it because our public schools have failed to teach adequate science in the classroom? Is it because of the rise of Creationism and Intelligent design (which are the same exact thing) has been corrupting our science classes and media? I would just like to hear other people's opinions on this.

Edit: Someone has kindly pointed out to me that it is instead "social darwinism" instead of just "darwinism". Also, to add a tad more context. Darwin specifically stated that evolution should not be applied to humans in that sense.

Edit: Sorry I have not answered all of your posts or comments. Hurricane Irene had other ideas so I just got power recently.

What the hell are you smoking? If anything, I have witnessed the OPPOSITE of this happening. Well, except the whole Social Darwinism part, people still get that wrong. But creationism being taught in the classroom? What? Huh? I haven't heard anything about that. I've been hearing about people getting in trouble and losing their jobs for teaching creationism in the classroom! Where have you heard otherwise?

Yes actually, states including: Alabama, California, Florida, Georgia, Kansas, Kentucky, Luisiana, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Texas, Virginia, have all had major movements to get their schools to teach ID and Creationism. In fact, I do believe that Texas (I don't know about officially) commonly teaches ID and Creationism in science class. We don't have that problem in the North (due to a strong and well received scientific community), but south of the Mason-Dixon this is a problem.

 

[Flac00]

-snip-

You seem to think religious concepts being taught in schools is something new. On the contrary: the first modern educational establishments were created by religious groups--the Jesuites, mostly. At the time, the church was the only organization with the money, power, and generosity to offer such services to the general public (or at least those who could pay the tuition).

Now we have public education, which is on the whole much more secular. But private religious schools in the tradition of the Jesuite schools still exist, as you said. The difference being they now have certain secular standards to uphold in order to maintain accreditation and offer degrees that are worth anything. They probably do encourage their students to believe that creationism is "right," but they are required to teach the rest of the important stuff. At that point, it's up to the student to decide which they want to believe. And again, most schools like that are private anyway.

This is mostly a public school problem. Private schools have the issue that a portion of their corriculum is out of the control of the government, so these things do happen.
Also, I do know that this is not a new concept, however the reasons for the new wave of "anti-evolution" now is ridiculous and unneeded. The fact that we are still having the problems of over 100 years ago is not good.

 

[oktalist]

You seem to think religious concepts being taught in schools is something new.

It is if they are taught in science class.

Ah, I see. Well I suppose THAT argument isn't worth maintaining if you're going to dodge my point entirely.

What point do you claim I have dodged, please?

I've been a Christian all my life and so I've grown up detesting evolution.

Why should that be? Even Pope John Paul II said evolution is probably true.

What he said was evolution and Christianity are compatible, which I do agree with.

Pius XII said they were compatible. John Paul II said there is "significant argument in favour of" evolution. But it doesn't matter, my point was that they are compatible, in reply to Joe who seemed to be saying they are not.

Well, actually the basis of Darwin's evolution was to rebel against the idea that God created the world.

That's not true at all. When he set off on his voyage with the Beagle, Darwin was a devout Anglican looking forward to being ordained as a priest upon his return. He never set out to rebel against anything, to disprove anything. It was only after he had begun to formulate the theory of natural selection, and see more of the world and of human nature, that he started to come to the realisation that, in his view, it did not necessitate a divine creator. And he never denied that God existed.

That it all just randomly happened with nothing overseeing it.

Natural selection is not random.

So most Christians reject the idea because of it.

I don't agree. I think if you look at a broad sample of Christians from around the world, you'll find that most of them accept evolution. The Anglican, Methodist and Catholic Churches all officially support it. Even in the USA, famous for Christian fundamentalism, more than 40% of Christians agree that evolution is the best explanation for the origins of human life (source [http://pewforum.org/]).

 

[Hobohodo]

I GENUINELY want to see any SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE against the theory of evolution.

And I mean evidence against, not holes in the theory of evolution, of which there are a admittedly a few.

Wouldnt you need a hole in the theory, to disprove it?
Here [http://www.bibleplus.org/creation/evidence.htm]

There is also evidence on both sides, I just hate the fact that many people try to force their beliefs on others, that may not be the best choice of words, but you know exactly what I mean, I see allot of creationism believers in this thread being ridiculed, but thats not fair, we too are entitled to our own opinons. Yes, I believe in creationism, I am a Christian, but I do not ridicule evolution believers, for the simple fact I RESPECT the fact that others are entitled to opinions.

I gotta ask, where are you getting all your statistics from? There's nothing wrong with people not accepting evolutionism, because its their belief, looking around though, these days, allot of people dont believe in creationism anymore.

(Just to say, I know not everyones ridiculing creatioism believers, but a vast majority are.)

 

[Vindictus]

I GENUINELY want to see any SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE against the theory of evolution.

And I mean evidence against, not holes in the theory of evolution, of which there are a admittedly a few.

Wouldnt you need a hole in the theory, to disprove it?
Here [http://www.bibleplus.org/creation/evidence.htm]

There is also evidence on both sides, I just hate the fact that many people try to force their beliefs on others, that may not be the best choice of words, but you know exactly what I mean, I see allot of creationism believers in this thread being ridiculed, but thats not fair, we too are entitled to our own opinons. Yes, I believe in creationism, I am a Christian, but I do not ridicule evolution believers, for the simple fact I RESPECT the fact that others are entitled to opinions.

I gotta ask, where are you getting all your statistics from? There's nothing wrong with people not accepting evolutionism, because its their belief, looking around though, these days, allot of people dont believe in creationism anymore.

(Just to say, I know not everyones ridiculing creatioism believers, but a vast majority are.)

It's not a matter of belief. Creationism has no evidence, Evolution is a well evidenced and demonstrated theory. One is a belief, another is scientific fact.

 

[Hobohodo]

It's not a matter of belief. Creationism has no evidence, Evolution is a well evidenced and demonstrated theory. One is a belief, another is scientific fact.

There was some evidence just above, I'm not trying to start an argument with anybody, but just looking through the read, just because someone has a belief, people seem to think that makes them unintelligent, I really feel that's sad, evolution may have evidence, but it doesn't make it fact, it too, is still a theory, there are missing links in Evolution.

 

[CodiferL]

We should definitely teach the opposing viewpoint and its massive quantity of evidence against evolutionary theory in schools.

We should also, when teaching about Germany's answer to racial minorities and sexual deviants and such in the 1930s and 40s, leading to "The Final Solution," consider the perspective that maybe it will improve a society to send its minorities to death camps.

 

[Hobohodo]

If you reject logical thought that has been replicated and proven tre, time and time again, in favor of fairy tales created two thousand years ago when people didn't know s*** about anything, you're a moron. Rejecting Evolution is like denying the earth isn't round at this point.

Why the hostility? I really don't understand? So, I have a differ in opinion, so I'm an idiot? This is the kind of attitude that shows Evolutionists in a bad light, your not helping your case by using hostility, you always use the same point aswell... It's a completely different thing, evolution has missing links, yet you ignore this for the simple reason that, you think it is right. I can have my own beliefs, there is nothing wrong with that, your looking like a moron at the moment in my opinion. Yes it has more evidence, but its called BELIEF for a reason, it's something to BELIEVE in, no matter what you say, I am doing nothing wrong, it affects your life in NO way.

 

[JFrog84]

Belief has no place in matters of science. If something can be demonstrated to be true, then you either accept it as truth, or you are a fool.

Are you saying that Isaac Newton was a fool and that his ideas had no place in science? As he strongly belived in creationism and fought against alternative theories.

 

[Asita]

Wouldnt you need a hole in the theory, to disprove it?
Here [http://www.bibleplus.org/creation/evidence.htm]

Oh goody, the same old arguments all over again.

Male/Female problem: http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CB/CB610.html
It's also worth noting that the argument of sterility is patently false, as fertile hybrids have been seen between organisms which lack even the same genus ('Beefalo' being a prime example, being a fertile hybrid between American Bison (bison bison) and Domestic Cattle (bos taurus). Heck, we've seen fertile 'wholphins' (Cross between Tursiops truncatus and Pseudorca crassidens)).

Polonium Haloes: http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CF/CF201.html
Galaxy appearance: http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CE/CE380.html
Comets: http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CE/CE261.html
Erosion: http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CD/CD620.html
Sedimentation: http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CD/CD220.html
Salt in the Oceans: http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CD/CD221_1.html
Magnetic Field: http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CD/CD701.html
Trees in the strata: http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CC/CC331.html
Folded strata: http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CD/CD510.html
Helium: http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CE/CE001.html
Helium in rock: http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CD/CD015.html
Number of fossils: http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CC/CC200_1.html

I think I've proven my point by now. The arguments presented are not well researched and have long since been debunked.

 

[CityofTreez]

I've been a Christian all my life and so I've grown up detesting evolution.

But I just ask one thing. Someone send me a site or a video or something that has nice and solid evidence that proves it's true. Now I'm still going to believe in Creationism/Intelligent Design (there is actually a surprising amount of historical evidence that lines up God's creation timeline with the natural history timeline) but I just want to see where the scientists who are studying evolution are getting there beliefs from.

Who knows? I may even change my mind. (Even though that is highly unlikely.)

http://youtu.be/vss1VKN2rf8

and

http://youtu.be/7w57_P9DZJ4

 

[CityofTreez]

I've been a Christian all my life and so I've grown up detesting evolution.

Why should that be? Even Pope John Paul II said evolution is probably true.

Well, actually the basis of Darwin's evolution was to rebel against the idea that God created the world. That it all just randomly happened with nothing overseeing it. So most Christians reject the idea because of it. But obviously we can't prove anything. All we believe is that there definitely is a God. So we figure that God created the universe. So I suppose we aren't necessarily detesting the theory of evolution itself, but the reason for which it was thought of in the first place.

Uhm, Evolution doesn't go against a God.

You can have faith in a higher being and still believe in Evolution.

 

[Asita]

Belief has no place in matters of science. If something can be demonstrated to be true, then you either accept it as truth, or you are a fool.

Are you saying that Isaac Newton was a fool and that his ideas had no place in science? As he strongly belived in creationism and fought against alternative theories.

And here we go again: http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CA/CA114.html

It's also worth noting that your statement there does not address the gist of the statement you were responding to, and I'd be very surprised indeed if you didn't already know that. If you want a better rundown on it though: Personal belief does not determine scientific validity or the curriculum studied in science class. Chemistry classes will not teach alchemy because some people might believe in it, Medical courses won't teach homeopathy for the sake of its defenders. The only thing that matters in a science class is where the evidence points. And Newton's works do not even relate to the belief you attributed to him, making your appeal to authority fallacy a non-sequitor at best.

 

[Dasmaster]

I GENUINELY want to see any SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE against the theory of evolution.

And I mean evidence against, not holes in the theory of evolution, of which there are a admittedly a few.

Wouldnt you need a hole in the theory, to disprove it?
Here [http://www.bibleplus.org/creation/evidence.htm]

There is also evidence on both sides, I just hate the fact that many people try to force their beliefs on others, that may not be the best choice of words, but you know exactly what I mean, I see allot of creationism believers in this thread being ridiculed, but thats not fair, we too are entitled to our own opinons. Yes, I believe in creationism, I am a Christian, but I do not ridicule evolution believers, for the simple fact I RESPECT the fact that others are entitled to opinions.

I gotta ask, where are you getting all your statistics from? There's nothing wrong with people not accepting evolutionism, because its their belief, looking around though, these days, allot of people dont believe in creationism anymore.

(Just to say, I know not everyones ridiculing creatioism believers, but a vast majority are.)

I can tell you why allot of people feel justified to look down on creationists. It is because you and him (me in this case) do not see the same thing.

For example looking at your link you might see some compelling arguments against Evolution.

However here is what i see. *quote from text* "a horse mating with a donkey produces a sterile mule". This is actually exactly what Evolution predicts because Horses and Donkeys are on the border of becoming different species so they can reproduce with DIFFICULTIES. These difficulties usually differ from

low fertility -> only 1 sex fertile -> Sterile -> No reproduction. (this is a simplified version and there are probably exceptions)

Whats more is that the author has made a grave error in his logic. Its not individuals that evolve it is groups. So you will always be able to find a suitable mate within your group.

He also makes similar errors with the rest of his claims.

 

[SillyBear]

I've been a Christian all my life and so I've grown up detesting evolution.

Why should that be? Even Pope John Paul II said evolution is probably true.

Well, actually the basis of Darwin's evolution was to rebel against the idea that God created the world. That it all just randomly happened with nothing overseeing it. So most Christians reject the idea because of it. But obviously we can't prove anything. All we believe is that there definitely is a God. So we figure that God created the universe. So I suppose we aren't necessarily detesting the theory of evolution itself, but the reason for which it was thought of in the first place.

You are so incredibly incorrect.

The basis of Darwin's studies was to discover truth in the universe. Darwin wasn't sitting around one day thinking "I want to piss off Christians..hmm.. how should I do that". He actually discovered something that was incredibly revolutionary.

Just like Galileo. Oh actually, excuse me - the basis of Galileo's findings that the world was round and it revolved around the sun was truly to piss off Christianity?

You would have been one of those Christians who was calling for Galileo's head if you lived in the past. You would have been one of them who believed he did it to rebel against God. When in reality he was a fucking scientist and he did what scientists do - discover truths.

And yes, evolution is a truth. It's is proven.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionary_biology

Read. Do some research.