The Old Republic: How does it measure up?

[Windcaler]

There have been several posts recently about this same topic. To sum up, whether the price is worth it is a subjective opinion, I think it is. Im having fun with the game because the quests force me to be an interactive part of the game instead of just skipping dialog/cutscenes. The games not perfect but the flaws are very small and I have encountered no game breaking bugs or exploits thus far.

I give it a solid recomendation if you enjoy hot key based MMORPGs (yes and MMO with actual roleplaying in it!). If you dont like hot key based MMO's you wont like this game

Extemely lackluster. To be fair, its not that much worse than any other MMO, it just fails to bring anything new to the table, which is disappointing considering the universe it is set in. Think of the potential Jedi combat, for instance, has. Then compare it to TOR. Click on enemy, go make a cup of tea, maybe click an ability from time to time (which has a 0.5 second lag on it, by the way, game breaking in PvP).

Im sorry but due to the vagueness and this claim (as hyperbolic as it is) I suspect you have not even played the game. There is no auto attack and companions lack the ability to take out full groups themselves unless they are severely under level (so much so that you dont earn anything from taking the group out). Your claim is not only unfounded but completely and provably false

 

[FieryTrainwreck]

As someone who also played Rift, specifically 2 characters to level 50 before patch 1.4 at which point given the direction they were taking with their balancing act I quit, I can tell you you're full of shit on the graphics issue. Art direction is utterly different from graphics generation. In point of fact SWTOR graphics are a bit more detailed than Rift's, and apart from the draw distance which they REALLY need to unlock their foliage is quite a bit more detailed. Doesn't look realistic, but the models are more detailed. Not as flashy in combat because apart from lightning and rocks, giant balls of light are not exactly common in the star wars universe.

Is this one of those "lean into the wind so hard you fall over" moments? Using such strong language ("full of shit"?) in defense of what most consider an abject falsehood? I haven't talked to a single other living, breathing human who thinks Star Wars looks better than Rift - not from a raw technical standpoint. Maybe your PC isn't strong enough (or, in your language, "sucks floppy donkey dick")?

Rift isn't exactly imaginative, but the game has actual TEXTURE WORK, legitimate graphics options, and actually stresses mid-range cards. Star Wars looks like the Cartoon Network series. You can call that aesthetic choice, and you can certainly favor it. But you cannot sit there and pretend it's technical superior to Rift. Not without losing all of your credibility.

It is buggy, but that's because they took several design choices will should work out in the end. Specifically the way flashpoints and ops work, as well as pvp. Since all the cutscenes are in game, graphical glitches are much more likely.

You're not connecting the dots here. One does not follow from the other.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Rift isn't exactly imaginative, but the game has actual TEXTURE WORK, legitimate graphics options, and actually stresses mid-range cards. Star Wars looks like the Cartoon Network series. You can call that aesthetic choice, and you can certainly favor it. But you cannot sit there and pretend it's technical superior to Rift. Not without losing all of your credibility.

TOR does some pretty nice stuff with light sources and shading. Rift is the prettier game overall, but TOR's aesthetics lead to it taking a lot more flak for its graphics than it deserves.

Personally, I prefer TOR's art direction and aesthetic to Rift, which, while polished, was an extremely dull, mechanical game. I don't know if I've ever played another MMO that did so many things "right" and yet remained utterly joyless. The game just doesn't have a soul.

Your mileage, of course, may vary.

 

[FieryTrainwreck]

TOR does some pretty nice stuff with light sources and shading. Rift is the prettier game overall, but TOR's aesthetics lead to it taking a lot more flak for its graphics than it deserves.

It's very convenient, the aesthetic choice that allows you to get away with minimal texture work and simplistic effects, innit tho?

Personally, I prefer TOR's art direction and aesthetic to Rift, which, while polished, was an extremely dull, mechanical game. I don't know if I've ever played another MMO that did so many things "right" and yet remained utterly joyless. The game just doesn't have a soul.

Your mileage, of course, may vary.

Nah, that's supremely fair. Yours are easily the most informed and balanced takes in this thread. I'm pretty biased against the WoW-style cartoon aesthetic and Bioware's bloated storytelling, so my opinion is definitely crowding the negative end of the spectrum.

Rift was pretty sweet at first, but that's always the case with MMOs. The dynamic rift content ceased to be so dynamic after a few weeks. The pvp is still well-done, but that's no thanks to support or content. Rather, the mechanics of the game are quite sound and the ability to mix and match souls gives you fairly unprecedented freedom in the genre.

Anyways, I'll be spending more time with TOR this month. Hopefully Bioware irons out the ability lag and other kinks to create a more polished "feel", which is crucial in pvp (my preferred arena).

 

[Nathan Allison]

Rift isn't exactly imaginative, but the game has actual TEXTURE WORK, legitimate graphics options, and actually stresses mid-range cards. Star Wars looks like the Cartoon Network series. You can call that aesthetic choice, and you can certainly favor it. But you cannot sit there and pretend it's technical superior to Rift. Not without losing all of your credibility.

TOR does some pretty nice stuff with light sources and shading. Rift is the prettier game overall, but TOR's aesthetics lead to it taking a lot more flak for its graphics than it deserves.

Personally, I prefer TOR's art direction and aesthetic to Rift, which, while polished, was an extremely dull, mechanical game. I don't know if I've ever played another MMO that did so many things "right" and yet remained utterly joyless. The game just doesn't have a soul.

Your mileage, of course, may vary.

I'm at a loss for words, thankfully, this picture explains my reaction.

Okami has good Aesthetics
Wind Waker has good Aesthetics
Journey has good Aesthetics

Those games look great without pushing pixels.

Guild Wars 2
Bayonetta
Portal

Those games have great Aesthetics and pushing Pixels

Star Wars the Old Republic, the animations are awful, from the combat to the storytelling. The characters look plastic, the worlds look great though, except the worlds are linear and you can't even explore most of it.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

I'm at a loss for words, thankfully, this picture explains my reaction.

Spoiler: Hiding Giant Pictures is polite!

Okami has good Aesthetics
Wind Waker has good Aesthetics
Monster Hunter has good Aesthetics

Those games look great without pushing pixels.

Star Wars the Old Republic, the animations are awful, from the combat to the storytelling. The characters look plastic, the worlds look great though, except the worlds are linear and you can't even explore most of it.

Maybe this picture will help you out even more.

Spoiler: Hiding Giant Pictures is polite!

If someone comes up to you and tells you Spaghetti is their favorite food, do you pull that face and tell them tacos are better?

It's nice to have opinions. Acknowledging that your opinions =/= truth is a good first step on the road to having civil discussions on the internet.

 

[Nathan Allison]

There is having opinions and then there is blind fanboyism.

Acknowledging that your fanboyism =/= opinion is a good first step on the road to having civil discussions on the internet.

I can acknowledge SWTOR has good story, I can acknowledge it's a good game that takes the old WoW mechanics that does them right. Something that WoW clones can't seem to accomplish.

What I can't acknowledge is SWTOR having good graphics and Aesthetics, there is no reason why SWTOR looks worse than The Force Unleashed other than laziness.

Don't pull the "it's for subscribers" card, if that was the case then every PC game will look like !@#$ for sales.
Not enough time? Sure, but that doesn't explain that every Triple AAA MMO coming out and is out NOW looks better than SWTOR.

 

[AnotherAvatar]

As a person who favors plot above all else in gaming The Old Republic has made me addicted to an MMO, something I never thought would happen given the general lack of story in the genre.

Mind you I'm not so addicted that I can't stop playing, I've been going since early access and my only character is at level 38. In my opinion The Old Republic is a great game, and a brilliant concept, but I find myself needing breaks from it, almost as though it were a job, I guess that's an MMO thing as I felt the same way in my short time in WoW and DCU, but it does take away from my enjoyment.

Also worth noting is the obscene number of glitches. Bioware + the MMO Genre = More glitches than you can imagine.

Still, all that negative stuff aside it is an epic game that has me tied into not only my character's strength and ability to destroy other players, but also to the plot and personality of said character. Basically the game is quality blend of some great concepts that make it's grind-filled nature acceptable, and I'd rather have a buggy game I can play now than have the same game get pushed back a year to fix all the issues.

It's generated a lot of buzz, and if the dev team can keep things interesting past level 50 then this could dethrone WoW (which only makes sense, I mean how old is WoW now? The fact that some new MMO hasn't dethroned it yet just shows you how the genre is content being mediocre and mostly made fun because of it's players rather than it's developers).

Still, what do I know about MMO's? I'm more of a CRPG/Stealth guy, which leaves me pretty much exclusively single player in my gaming. Gotta give The Old Republic credit for drawing a guy like me in though.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

There is having opinions and then there is blind fanboyism.

Acknowledging that your fanboyism =/= opinion is a good first step on the road to having civil discussions on the internet.

I can acknowledge SWTOR has good story, I can acknowledge it's a good game that takes the old WoW mechanics that does them right. Something that WoW clones can't seem to accomplish.

What I can't acknowledge is SWTOR having good graphics and Aesthetics, there is no reason why SWTOR looks worse than The Force Unleashed other than laziness.

Don't pull the "it's for subscribers" card, if that was the case then every PC game will look like !@#$ for sales.
Not enough time? Sure, but that doesn't explain that every Triple AAA MMO coming out and is out NOW looks better than SWTOR.

Your first and second statements are ad hominem attacks. Please refrain from ad hominem attacks.

Aesthetics are subjective. Your taste in aesthetics is not any more valid than anyone else. Amazing, I know.

 

[Nathan Allison]

There is having opinions and then there is blind fanboyism.

Acknowledging that your fanboyism =/= opinion is a good first step on the road to having civil discussions on the internet.

I can acknowledge SWTOR has good story, I can acknowledge it's a good game that takes the old WoW mechanics that does them right. Something that WoW clones can't seem to accomplish.

What I can't acknowledge is SWTOR having good graphics and Aesthetics, there is no reason why SWTOR looks worse than The Force Unleashed other than laziness.

Don't pull the "it's for subscribers" card, if that was the case then every PC game will look like !@#$ for sales.
Not enough time? Sure, but that doesn't explain that every Triple AAA MMO coming out and is out NOW looks better than SWTOR.

Your first and second statements are ad hominem attacks. Please refrain from ad hominem attacks.

Aesthetics are subjective. Your taste in aesthetics is not any more valid than anyone else. Amazing, I know.

Sorry but your loyalty and lack of adversion ticked me off.

You're defending something that shouldn't be defended. SWTOR's aesthetics and graphics isn't something that should be praised. They are not bad nor are they good. To put it simple, they can be better.

You know why BioWare copied World of Warcraft. It works and it's successful, it's hard to argue against copying something that's been a gaming force for years. It appeals to all a large audience of gamers.

Here is the kicker, developers listen to their fanbase.

Telling BioWare, "The graphics and aesthetics are great!" Only hurts the game. I've played The Forced Unleashed, I know how a Star Wars game should look this generation.
I've seen the Old Republic trailers, that flashy CGI can't graphically transition into a gameplay, but I've seen what it can come close to looking like.
My opinion of next gen games has a higher standard, like it should.

By praising SWTOR looks and graphics, you're only shooting yourself in the foot. Not to mention annoying all gamers that want to see a next gen Star Wars MMO.


Lastly, video game aesthetics are not as subjective as you like to think. If that was the case, then World of Warcraft could be the best looking MMO of all time.

We both know that's not true.

 

[n00dle37]

Theres also a ton of bugs and exploits, for example the ability to farm infinite currency after one particular quest, or the dancing one you mentioned, or that you cannot unsubscribe from the game if you are banned... Just a thousand small and not so small annoyances, met with either ignorance or mass ban hand outs by EA.

There are patches every single day currently fixing these bugs and getting the game better and better.

Personally, for a game that is released, costs 60 bucks and a monthly fee to play, I dont think thats good enough. But each to his own.

To be fair to the game for an MMO it has been a smooth launch. Most MMO's that I've played have been much more broken then SWTOR on launch, however you still have a right to be annoyed. It's clear that the game was pushed out to meet Christmas.

 

[Ickorus]

I didn't play much because I got bored half-way through the starter zone so I can't really put out a fair opinion of the game from my experience except that as you may have guessed I found the combat extremely lacklustre.

I know several people who own the game and when I tell them of my dislike for the combat system and how it feels like a WoW clone they tell me about how good the storyline is and how that's why they're staying and since it's a Bioware game im inclined to believe the story may well be very good, with that in mind I don't see it going free-to-play but instead buy-to-play a few months from now when the initial burst of users has completed the game and quit because the story is all that held them to it.

 

[Cazza]

I have one level 25 character. I found the story is getting me through the side quests. It's what I expected as an MMO. I believe I will get one character for all classes through the story. What SW:TOR has after I have done that will be the big decider if I stay playing it or move on. Either way it's a great game. If they have/add lots to do at level 50 or DLC to add more story (and levels). I will keep playing.

The main thing that stopped me from playing WOW was the lack of story. Whatever I did it didn't feel like it mattered. I know there was an overall world story if you read every quest and talked to everyone, read all the ingame books. My heart isn't in the WOW world as much as it is for the Star Wars one.

 

[VladG]

I don't know, to be fair. I've played the beta, and all I could think was... Wait, who modded WoW with Star Wars themes? The mechanics are identical, the much hiped Bioware TM story is meh, and it's only real advantage over WoW is (barring the StarWars rabid fandom) the fact that it's fully voiced. WoW actually has some great quest lines if you bother to read the text.

I really didn't like the gameplay with the ranged classes (the Smuggler in particular feels like playing a Siege Tank in Starcraft: deploy, nuke, un-deploy, deploy, nuke, un-deploy, and so on) and the time I had to spend on Coruscant as a Republic character was, and I'm really not exaggerating here, some of the worst time I've had with a game in my life. And I had to do it, because I really, really wanted to enjoy ToR, and I though, fine, fine, it's horrible here, but it has to get better later, right? Well, not really. And since leveling a character is one of the things I like about MMORPGs, having to go through that again? No. Just No.

Also as a WoW player, it's just not worth picking up a full priced game and paying the same subscription for what is currently a slightly more annoying version of the game I'm playing anyway.

However I see the game is very successfully, despite the fact that I thought it wouldn't quite be. I don't know if this is just Star Wars fandom, WoW hate, a combination, or something else. All I know is that, for me, a person who enjoys this kind of game, TOR was just not fun for some very clear reasons.

 

[bootz]

The graphics/aesthetics look horrible from the videos I found. One of the reasons I didn't buy it.
A game from 2003 that looks better. Star Wars Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy

 

[cieply]

I'm just gonna say one thing - you should all have better memory. AoC, RIFT and WAR had exactly the same rapid growth and super reviews. That's because such things are dependent on early game. MMOs however are based around end-game, and the only judge of it will be time.

I can go on and on for pages about game breaking bugs and abuses, about horrible moderation and customer service. But this game downfall will be in it's endgame and design choices, same as with WAR (btw Warhammer sub curve is now legendary)

Endgame od TOR:
PvP - everyone is grouped together, lvl 50 pros and lvl 10 scrubs are playing together, this makes for horribly unbalanced and, well, "un-fun" pvp. It quickly becomes boring and frustrating, and very limited number of maps does not help this situation. People that are in for pvp won't resub.

PvE - Bugs and lack of content will take it's toll. There is a reason that blizz is churning out content like crazy right now, and it's because people are "burned out" on this type of PvE. They get bored fast, I mean really fast. And any WoW+ will bore them as fast as regular WoW. There is very little things to grind for anyway. Everything interesting might get implemented in the future but they ran out of time. Guild capital ships, GOOD space combat, more BGs and more competetive PvP, more instances and raids - they won't make it in time. And even if they will, people will get bored with it as it's to similiar to wow.

And for dessert, legendary Warhammer curve and funny bug
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGsU_T9-pfo

 

[AndyFromMonday]

I'd like to try it but the instancing really puts me off. One of the things I loved about World of Warcraft was that it felt like a living, breathing world. I just don't feel the same about TOR. It seems to me that every time a new MMO is released people are quick to tout it as the "next big thing" but to me, TOR is no different than any of the other "WoW-killers".

All of these "WoW-killers" had a certain gimmick they marketed to gamers and they all eventually failed because whilst their specific gimmick was well realized, the rest of the game was not. Warhammer had its public quests and innovative PvP system, Age of Conan had its "visceral skill based combat" and Keep Building/Sieging and TOR has its story focused "campaigns". The problem with these MMO's is that they're not only trying to be too much like WoW but are also trying to dethrone it. If MMO's focused more on cohabiting as opposed to overthrowing, they'd do a lot better.

World of Warcraft managed to overtake Everquest by being the better game. Blizzard's intent was not just to make money but to also create an amazing game, the latter being a concept that is sorely absent from the minds of post 2004 MMO developers.

 

[Dumbfish1]

It's a clone of EQ, but it's a very good one. So good it's actually the best EQ-clone there is, including WoW. If you want an EQ style MMO this is the best one. I find myself playing it for the story (Sith Inquisitor) more than to level up my character. There's virtually no grind.

However it does nothing to innovate, it copies the best features of other MMOs, but I think this is a dying format. It's most likely going to be the last great EQ style game, there's plenty of interesting looking MMOs coming up, planetside 2 and Guildwars 2 to name a few.

I fixed your post for you. I really wish more people weren't laboring under the impression that the genre started in November 2004. It might give them some perspective, as well as understanding that "WoW clones" are just the evolution of a distinct sub genre of MMO that has been around for over a decade now and started with Everquest.

They're not going anywhere any time soon, either. GW2 is an evolution of this sub genre as well.

That's a moot point though, isn't it? WoW popularized it, which is why every one calls them that, but it dosn't matter which game was first.

"WoW clones" are just the evolution of a distinct sub genre of MMO that has been around for over a decade now

SWTOR does nothing to innovate, It just combines the elements of other very similar games. The best you can say about it is the voice acting. I'm not saying it's a bad game, just that it isn't very original. My point was that the whole Everquest sub-genre dosn't have much shelf-life left.

 

[Puddleknock]

I've had a great time in ToR so far and I hope to continue doing so for a while yet.

However, their are number of issues with the game. The animations, the textures, the standard MMO hot key combat are all reminiscent of games before it. ToR does not try to rewrite the MMO handbook but merely slap a combination bioware dialogue with a star wars licence on to existing MMO features. Now personally I'm not too bothered by this, I bought the game knowing all that ToR would bring little in terms of innovation.

If you're looking for innovation of the MMO genre in ToR you will be disappointed, if you're more like me and just want to be entertained by bioware dialogue and the Star Wars setting then you most likely be fine.

Oh and on a side note I'm pretty much playing the game solo, playing this way the game is far closer to being knights of the old republic 3 than it is a proper MMO. Whether that says alot about me or the game is up for debate.

 

[VladG]

It's the only MMO I've tried (of which there are many) that has kept me playing. Make of that what you will. I have really enjoyed both the grouping and solo content.

But then, I really liked Tabula Rasa, so... I guess I just really want an MMo that lets me play as if I'm actually in control of the character. TOR has given me that sensation more than the other MMO's I've tried, with the exception of tabula Rasa, which I honestly quite liked.

I WOULD be playing Eve right now, but making your way in Eve is like trying to make your way to mountains of gold in the centre of 10km-wide swamp filled with dog shit and people who occasionally hurl you back to where you started.

My advice regarding EVE would be to find a corporation that's willing to teach you and fill in a role they need. There are plenty around, especially the ones running high level ops. They will provide you with what you need, as long as you have a fairly basic skill level. Just get in touch with some of them, and they will find a place for you. This is a very good way to learn about the game and make some money too.

Trust me, there's plenty to do even for a starter char, like hauling loot around (somebody's got to do it, and you get payed well for it) or exploring and making sure the route is safe.