The Old Republic: How does it measure up?

[lordmardok]

So those of us who decide to invest in what magazines have named the "fastest growing MMO of all time", Star Wars: The Old Republic, have had a decent chance to play through. A great deal of people have already reached maximum level and it seems like the production company is trying it's best to scramble together good end game content above and beyond what it put out for release.

My question to the escapist community is this: How do you think it measures up as an MMO? Will it dethrone WoW or at the very least rise up to the same level? Or is it another samey clone, no pun intended, destined to be relegated to the free-to-play section in a few months like DC Universe and just about every other MMO in the last few years.

I'm not putting my own opinion up because frankly I want to know what the general public thinks as a whole since frankly this whole will be decided by how many people like it, not singular forum trolls like myself.

 

[Saltyk]

Wow. No replies. The Escapist doesn't seem to have many TOR fans (or haters). Maybe they are too busy playing it? I think that should change.

Anyway. I like it. It has everything I liked about WoW but I find that I actually care about the universe and the characters. At times, I actually have to think before making a decision. Something that WoW could never claim. Combat feels more visceral to me. Enemies can actually be threatening. There are some minor issues, but every MMO ever will have issues and nothing can ever be perfect.

Is it perfect? No. Is it good? I like it. Will it go Free to Play? I certainly hope not.

Full Disclosure. I played in the November Beta. I've been playing since December 13th (yeah I was a very early preorder). I currently have 5 characters (42 Juggernaut, 16 Assassin, 26 Mercenary, 27 Sniper, 4 Jedi Knight).
I'm such a geek.

 

[lordmardok]

Yea, I was kinda hoping for more replies than this, c'est la vie.

 

[Kingme18]

Terribly.

Riddled with game breaking bugs and exploits. Thats forgivable for an MMO, but the way they have handled these problems? Unacceptable.

Then of course theres the lackluster combat, no trading allowed... Etc. Could go into detail but I cant be bothered right now.

To summarize, its pretty shit. I reckon it will go F2P in about a year and a half, and drop under 200,000 subscribers in the next 8 months.

I disagree with this statement almost more than I disagree with people who say COD is the best game series of all time. Not only is it an amazing MMO with a ton of work put into it, but it is also exceptional for a launch MMO. The combat is fun, if familiar if you've played WOW, and yes, there is trading allowed. There is one exploit that I know of, which is the dancing one, and I have yet to encounter a game breaking bug, along with the hundreds of members of my guild. They have more than handled these problems in acceptable manners. My question to you is, why do you hate this game so much?

To answer the OP: It's faring greatly, and is the fastest growing MMO of all time. If it doesn't dethrone WoW, it will definitely make a huge dent in WoW's fanbase.

 

[lordmardok]

I realize that a lot of magazines are touting the whole 'fast growing' thing and I will say this about it: it's a misleading premise. You see SW:TOR is a well known and beloved franchise despite all of Mr. Lucas's efforts, and has a devoted and dedicated fan base. This virtually ensures a good return in the first month or so.

My question is how will it stand the test of time? Even just in terms of one year at the very least. After playing for a month can you see yourself doing the rest of the content for the next, oh say, six months? or twelve?

 

[Sixcess]

I realize that a lot of magazines are touting the whole 'fast growing' thing and I will say this about it: it's a misleading premise. You see SW:TOR is a well known and beloved franchise despite all of Mr. Lucas's efforts, and has a devoted and dedicated fan base. This virtually ensures a good return in the first month or so.

"Fastest growing" is lazy magazine writers quoting Bioware's press releases word for word. Said press release was issued around a week ago, so how they managed to measure 'growth' when the game had been live for about 10 days, if that,... well, only EA/Bioware's PR department knows how they did that.

Anyway, I'll say what I always say about TOR. It's a good game but a bad MMO. The main class quests are well up to Bioware's usual standard and if you're looking for the closest thing you will likely ever get to KOTOR 3, or a typical Bioware RPG, then you'll have fun.

If you don't like heavily linear MMOs then look elsewhere. TOR is the themeparkiest themepark ever, and the worlds feel more like movie sets than actual worlds.

My question is how will it stand the test of time? Even just in terms of one year at the very least. After playing for a month can you see yourself doing the rest of the content for the next, oh say, six months? or twelve?

It will not beat, or even rival WoW. TOR launched with about 1.5 million players and that's as good as it will ever get for them. Very few MMOs ever maintain steady growth from their launch numbers these days, and TOR will be no exception.

I'd speculate two years to some kind of F2P model - less than two years if the update schedule sucks or EA gives in to temptation and starts pushing microtransactions at its subscribers. I'd guess it'll stabilise at 200 - 500K maybe, which would be good for any other MMO, but not for TOR.

I simply don't feel it has the depth to last. The people that came for the story aren't going to stay en masse for the raiding, and the raiders will eventually go back to WoW, like they always do...

...well unless Mists of Pandaria is even worse than expected.

 

[Coldie]

I disagree with this statement almost more than I disagree with people who say COD is the best game series of all time. Not only is it an amazing MMO with a ton of work put into it, but it is also exceptional for a launch MMO. The combat is fun, if familiar if you've played WOW, and yes, there is trading allowed. There is one exploit that I know of, which is the dancing one, and I have yet to encounter a game breaking bug, along with the hundreds of members of my guild. They have more than handled these problems in acceptable manners. My question to you is, why do you hate this game so much?

To answer the OP: It's faring greatly, and is the fastest growing MMO of all time. If it doesn't dethrone WoW, it will definitely make a huge dent in WoW's fanbase.

Regarding trading: there were reports of account suspensions for buying up something off the AH and reselling at a higher price. I don't know if it's legit or not.

Exploits: there were at least three: the dancing combat bug, already fixed, a credit duplication exploit, and an infinite commendation exploit. There are claims of billions of exploited credits.

Fastest growing: even if that is true, it's completely pointless. The game is extremely heavily instanced. The planets are instanced, plus there are tons of personal instances in them. A typical planet instance will have a hundred people, which is acceptable for tiny planets, like the starter worlds or the Fleet, but later on planets become ludicrously huge and just as empty. Tatooine is gigantic, but you'll be done with it's 20 quests in a few hours and leave. Hoth is even bigger and even emptier - you might not even encounter a player in your time there. It's all for the better though. The game does not handle more than 20-30 players in the same area all that well.

The typical complaints for the game include:
* Horrible and non-customizable UI. No addons or macros of any kind. In addition to playing whack-a-health-bar minigame, raid healers are enjoying an additional challenge in health bars not showing actual health. No target-of-target, no threat indicators, no combat log.
* Terrible vanilla-WoW talents. 1% more healing, woo-bloody-hoo. The crafting is pretty bad, too.
* No automated LFG, no global LFG channels, but hundreds of group quests that require properly-specced tanks and healers. Also, no dual-spec. Your fleet pass to go respec has a cooldown of 18 hours and flying anywhere in your ship requires a whole lot of running around and several loading screens.
* Dead world. Every location is either a huge, empty area, packed with static groups of 3-5 mobs + a patrolling elite or two, or a series of identical huge corridors, packed with exact same mobs. That's it, that's the entire game, huge, static, empty. The towns are "populated" with mannequins that you can't even target. Everything is enormous, so you spend a lot of time running around (or fighting the same pack over and over to move forward). Travel is a huge timesink in this game.

 

[LetalisK]

TOR is a pretty good game. I don't know how long it will last, though, since that's dependent on end-game content. Of the several MMOs I've played in the last few years, I'd have to say the leveling up process is definitely the most fun and it doesn't feel nearly as much like a "WoW-clone"(which is a retarded phrase anyway) as its detractors portray.

 

[lordmardok]

The problem with end game content is that it has to at least feel like it has a purpose. In WoW the release content alone was fairly significant and the end game content was consistent and felt like a real event in the world. From BRD in vanilla WoW to BT in Burning Crusade and ICC in Lich King. It all felt like it was a real part of the world rather than a shoe-horned in high-difficulty dungeon placed arbitrarily at the end of the game.

 

[Vidi Kitty]

I am greatly enjoying the fully voiced interactions. It makes you feel more involved in whats going on with the quest instead of the usual "click on quest giver, click accept, check the tracker for what needs to be done" situation of other MMOs. I hardly even realize when I level up because I'm more set on experiencing the world than increasing my effective numbers.

And I am playing this sucker on an outdated XP system that barely scrapes up 10 fps in the game, so that should say something about how enjoyable it is.

 

[woodaba]

I like it a lot. Ive played a lot of MMOs, and this is the only one that can sustain my interest. Dunno how itll do in the long run, but in my opinion, its the best MMO since Ultima Online. Y'know, the first one.

 

[Killspre]

I like it, I have fun playing it, but its hardly perfect. A lot has been said but my main problem is how easy it seems to reach the level cap there are already so many lvl 50s pvp has been reduced to which ever side has more and to reach level cap so quickly just takes away the feeling of accomplishment of reaching the level cap. Don't get me wrong I don't think leveling should be a chore but its too easy I have been playing my sniper for a week and am already almost at the cap.

 

[Denamic]

Much, much better than WoW was at launch.
Though the current WoW is better than ToR is now.
It's worth playing.

 

[John1307]

I got the game a few days after launch at the moment i am a level 38 sith sorcerer so far i love the game. Combat is fun, the story is amazing and ofcourse there is the UI pretty bad yes but nothing is perfect. Speaking of perfect the bugs are quite bad i grant you however it is a month old guys.

 

[Xannieros]

Many complaints, but the way I see it most are comparing it to WoW. I don't think its fair to judge it on that. Gonna quote the large list of complaints, and go down the list.

Not sure if these are Coldie's complaints or is just generalizing on most players opinions. But here we go.

Horrible and non-customizable UI.

*I think the UI is fine, serves its purpose at a basic level.

No addons or macros of any kind.

*Game doesn't need macros. Key-binds work just fine.
*Addons muddy up the game to the point groups will require players to have certain addons.

In addition to playing whack-a-health-bar minigame, raid healers are enjoying an additional challenge in health bars not showing actual health.

*Not sure what you mean by whack-a-health-bar minigame.
*But I see the health bars not showing as a bug, probably on the list to fix asap.

No target-of-target, no threat indicators, no combat log.

*Target of target is something they DO need to add. Threat indicators aren't needed but would be nice. No combat log? Most players wouldn't use it. Only to find out what killed them.

Terrible vanilla-WoW talents. 1% more healing, woo-bloody-hoo. The crafting is pretty bad, too.

*Not sure what to say about the talents... There will always be lack luster talents, and no group will be happy.
*Crafting is actually a nice change of pace for me. But needs to be reworked. Once you hit level 50, crafting is nearly useless. Also crafting is a huge money sink. Something I think WoW needed, instead of blowing the economy up with daily quests.

No automated LFG, no global LFG channels, but hundreds of group quests that require properly-specced tanks and healers.

*A LFG system would be nice, but isn't needed at the moment considering the amount of players in each zone. Something they will need to implement eventually.
*Global LFG channels would be filled with so much spam no one would even see your message.
*Many of the group quests can be completed with damage specs alone, as long as there's a healer. Crowd control is very useful if a group can work together. Later levels are tougher to accomplish them, as they should be.

Also, no dual-spec.

*Dual spec would be nice.

Your fleet pass to go respec has a cooldown of 18 hours and flying anywhere in your ship requires a whole lot of running around and several loading screens.

*I admit, lots of running around, there are however ships that take you to the fleet at every planet near your ship.

Dead world. Every location is either a huge, empty area, packed with static groups of 3-5 mobs + a patrolling elite or two, or a series of identical huge corridors, packed with exact same mobs. That's it, that's the entire game, huge, static, empty. The towns are "populated" with mannequins that you can't even target. Everything is enormous, so you spend a lot of time running around (or fighting the same pack over and over to move forward). Travel is a huge timesink in this game.

*Dead world with static groups? Gee that sounds like WoW. Towns with useless NPC? *coughWoWcough*
*Spend alot of time running around? How many times must I compare this game to WoW? (Since many people are already doing it.)
*Flight paths are faster than other games. Travel will always be a timesink in games. You cant move from place to place instantly. It takes the concept of open world and throws it out the window. (I use open world loosely.)

Just my opinions. *Raises Flame Shield*

 

[Nimcha]

No target-of-target, no threat indicators, no combat log.
* Terrible vanilla-WoW talents. 1% more healing, woo-bloody-hoo. The crafting is pretty bad, too.
* No automated LFG, no global LFG channels, but hundreds of group quests that require properly-specced tanks and healers. Also, no dual-spec. Your fleet pass to go respec has a cooldown of 18 hours and flying anywhere in your ship requires a whole lot of running around and several loading screens.

These things are actually very big plusses. Well, maybe not the loading screens.

Automated LFG was the worst thing to happen to WoW, I hope it never happens to this game.

 

[Nimcha]

Well, that does sound very promising.

Tell me, how is the endgame content?

Not that much so far, but there's currently a patch on the test servers with new instances and a new raid. After just 2 weeks, I think that's somewhat promising.

 

[Dann661]

All the problems people have complained about on this, I have yet to encounter, so either I am the luckiest TOR player ever, or they are heavily exaggerating. To answer the original question, it is a great game which I heavily recommend getting immediately.

 

[Denamic]

*I think the UI is fine, serves its purpose at a basic level.

Basic, sure, but it's absolutely terrible for healing.
It's also poor at conveying important information, like when an ability has procced.
Some specs of some classes are very proc dependant, which means that if they don't have a clear indication of what has procced or not, they have to keep their eyes on their hotbar to play optimally.

*Game doesn't need macros. Key-binds work just fine.

Mmm, no.
If the keybinds did their jobs well enough, sure, no macros are needed.
But they don't.
An example are mouse-over macros that lets you heal by hovering your mouse over a party member's healthbar and pressing their ability button.
Having to select a unit first basically means twice the input for doing the same thing slower.
That is a flaw.

*Addons muddy up the game to the point groups will require players to have certain addons.

Addons only 'muddy' it up if you let it.
And if an addon becomes a requirement to play, it should have been in the game in the first place, or it should be implemented.
Either way, it lets the player decide what he or she wants, and it gives the devs an idea of what players want or need.

*Target of target is something they DO need to add. Threat indicators aren't needed but would be nice. No combat log? Most players wouldn't use it. Only to find out what killed them.

Most of this is preference, but threat indicators of some kind are necessary in a raid environment.
Be it an accurate numerical value or a bigass siren telling you you're about to die and take the raid with you, either one is fine.
Just as long as one of those exist.
Also, knowing what killed you is useful for not doing that again.

*Not sure what to say about the talents... There will always be lack luster talents, and no group will be happy.

He's quite right though.
Some talents are just objectively boring.
1% endurance talents are simply unacceptable in this day and age.
We've had games for too long to have crap like that.

*Dead world with static groups? Gee that sounds like WoW. Towns with useless NPC? *coughWoWcough*
*Spend alot of time running around? How many times must I compare this game to WoW? (Since many people are already doing it.)

Thing is though, ToR has far more loading screens, and far greater time investments for travel.
And just because another game does something wrong doesn't mean this one gets a free pass for doing the same thing, even doing it worse.

*Flight paths are faster than other games. Travel will always be a timesink in games. You cant move from place to place instantly. It takes the concept of open world and throws it out the window. (I use open world loosely.)

I agree with this.
Flightpaths are good, and there needs to be some kind of travelling.
I feel ToR does it a bit excessively.

Just my opinions. *Raises Flame Shield*

I have rocket punch and rail shot!

 

[sunpop]

Terribly.

Riddled with game breaking bugs and exploits. Thats forgivable for an MMO, but the way they have handled these problems? Unacceptable.

Then of course theres the lackluster combat, no trading allowed... Etc. Could go into detail but I cant be bothered right now.

To summarize, its pretty shit. I reckon it will go F2P in about a year and a half, and drop under 200,000 subscribers in the next 8 months.

As opposed to wows handling of problems where the servers are broken and the game crashes every 5 minutes, not just at launch but at all the big patches.

The combat is rather standard for mmos which is good because a lot of games lately have tried to remake the wheel and ended up suffering for it.

If you're going to say a game is shit then you might want to give a lot more detail than you did, I don't see whats wrong with how they handled the bugs as they have been fixed pretty fast from what I've seen.