The Old Republic: How does it measure up?

[Nimcha]

No target-of-target, no threat indicators, no combat log.
* Terrible vanilla-WoW talents. 1% more healing, woo-bloody-hoo. The crafting is pretty bad, too.
* No automated LFG, no global LFG channels, but hundreds of group quests that require properly-specced tanks and healers. Also, no dual-spec. Your fleet pass to go respec has a cooldown of 18 hours and flying anywhere in your ship requires a whole lot of running around and several loading screens.

These things are actually very big plusses. Well, maybe not the loading screens.

Automated LFG was the worst thing to happen to WoW, I hope it never happens to this game.

 

[Nimcha]

Well, that does sound very promising.

Tell me, how is the endgame content?

Not that much so far, but there's currently a patch on the test servers with new instances and a new raid. After just 2 weeks, I think that's somewhat promising.

 

[Dann661]

All the problems people have complained about on this, I have yet to encounter, so either I am the luckiest TOR player ever, or they are heavily exaggerating. To answer the original question, it is a great game which I heavily recommend getting immediately.

 

[Denamic]

*I think the UI is fine, serves its purpose at a basic level.

Basic, sure, but it's absolutely terrible for healing.
It's also poor at conveying important information, like when an ability has procced.
Some specs of some classes are very proc dependant, which means that if they don't have a clear indication of what has procced or not, they have to keep their eyes on their hotbar to play optimally.

*Game doesn't need macros. Key-binds work just fine.

Mmm, no.
If the keybinds did their jobs well enough, sure, no macros are needed.
But they don't.
An example are mouse-over macros that lets you heal by hovering your mouse over a party member's healthbar and pressing their ability button.
Having to select a unit first basically means twice the input for doing the same thing slower.
That is a flaw.

*Addons muddy up the game to the point groups will require players to have certain addons.

Addons only 'muddy' it up if you let it.
And if an addon becomes a requirement to play, it should have been in the game in the first place, or it should be implemented.
Either way, it lets the player decide what he or she wants, and it gives the devs an idea of what players want or need.

*Target of target is something they DO need to add. Threat indicators aren't needed but would be nice. No combat log? Most players wouldn't use it. Only to find out what killed them.

Most of this is preference, but threat indicators of some kind are necessary in a raid environment.
Be it an accurate numerical value or a bigass siren telling you you're about to die and take the raid with you, either one is fine.
Just as long as one of those exist.
Also, knowing what killed you is useful for not doing that again.

*Not sure what to say about the talents... There will always be lack luster talents, and no group will be happy.

He's quite right though.
Some talents are just objectively boring.
1% endurance talents are simply unacceptable in this day and age.
We've had games for too long to have crap like that.

*Dead world with static groups? Gee that sounds like WoW. Towns with useless NPC? *coughWoWcough*
*Spend alot of time running around? How many times must I compare this game to WoW? (Since many people are already doing it.)

Thing is though, ToR has far more loading screens, and far greater time investments for travel.
And just because another game does something wrong doesn't mean this one gets a free pass for doing the same thing, even doing it worse.

*Flight paths are faster than other games. Travel will always be a timesink in games. You cant move from place to place instantly. It takes the concept of open world and throws it out the window. (I use open world loosely.)

I agree with this.
Flightpaths are good, and there needs to be some kind of travelling.
I feel ToR does it a bit excessively.

Just my opinions. *Raises Flame Shield*

I have rocket punch and rail shot!

 

[sunpop]

Terribly.

Riddled with game breaking bugs and exploits. Thats forgivable for an MMO, but the way they have handled these problems? Unacceptable.

Then of course theres the lackluster combat, no trading allowed... Etc. Could go into detail but I cant be bothered right now.

To summarize, its pretty shit. I reckon it will go F2P in about a year and a half, and drop under 200,000 subscribers in the next 8 months.

As opposed to wows handling of problems where the servers are broken and the game crashes every 5 minutes, not just at launch but at all the big patches.

The combat is rather standard for mmos which is good because a lot of games lately have tried to remake the wheel and ended up suffering for it.

If you're going to say a game is shit then you might want to give a lot more detail than you did, I don't see whats wrong with how they handled the bugs as they have been fixed pretty fast from what I've seen.

 

[Suthainn]

The first is trading. Trading and the economy are two of the most important things in an MMO. Now, in TOR, people have been banned for - this is true, look it up - buying items cheaply and selling them at higher prices. This is without exploiting bugs or anything of that nature. How the hell does that make any sense? Buying cheap and selling high, its standard fair in MMOs, its something people base their characters around. One could argue that TOR is simply different in this respect, but do I really want to invest time and money into a game where the economy is controlled to the penny by the developers, with no breathing space? Not really.

Proven to be trolls. Bioware responded to every person claiming such a ban on their forums showing their accounts were all active and had received no infringements. Plus their lead community rep categorically stated they would do no such thing, exploiting bugs is the only reason you would get banned via the AH. You got trolled.

The combat is extremely lackluster. To be fair, its not that much worse than any other MMO, it just fails to bring anything new to the table, which is disappointing considering the universe it is set in. Think of the potential Jedi combat, for instance, has. Then compare it to TOR. Click on enemy, go make a cup of tea, maybe click an ability from time to time (which has a 0.5 second lag on it, by the way, game breaking in PvP).

There's an option in preferences to turn the delay after casting before you can cast again from 0.75s to 0.00s, there's no lag on ability use at all unless your personal internet is slow, it's to stop people interrupting their own casts by spam clicking (which is awful gameplay). Any serious pvpers will turn it to 0.00s and never wonder about it again.

Combat graphics are clearly a personal thing, I for example, love the fact you parry and deflect blaster bolts whilst running towards an enemy, that your lightsaber and an enemies actually clash and block one another during combat, that even basic combat moves have multiple animations and instead of a 3 animation rotation it looks like a real fight.

Theres also a ton of bugs and exploits, for example the ability to farm infinite currency after one particular quest, or the dancing one you mentioned, or that you cannot unsubscribe from the game if you are banned... Just a thousand small and not so small annoyances, met with either ignorance or mass ban hand outs by EA.

Again, the bans are handed out for people clearly exploiting and abusing bugs they knew were not intended, for massive personal gain. I am glad to see such cheaters gone. There are patches every single day currently fixing these bugs and getting the game better and better.

 

[Woodsey]

Terribly.

Riddled with game breaking bugs and exploits. Thats forgivable for an MMO, but the way they have handled these problems? Unacceptable.

Then of course theres the lackluster combat, no trading allowed... Etc. Could go into detail but I cant be bothered right now.

What do you mean "no trading"?

OT: Enjoying it a lot so far. Main quests are interesting (and long), voice-acting's good, flashpoints are a highlight (although the ones without much talky not so much), combat is fun (although I didn't play WoW at all, let alone for 8 years).

I've seen about 3 bugs in ~25 hours of gameplay (although one does stop me from completing a side-quest at the minute), its been updated a bunch, and they're very communicative with the community.

Complaints: I do find the world's too static, and I'm not a great fan of the design of the 4 or 5 I've visited so far, and PvP lags massively for me for some reason. Oh, and speeders should be given far sooner for about half the price.

 

[Nathan Allison]

I have 1 major problem with SWTOR

Other than story telling, it's more World of Warcraft than Star Wars.

The combat is so bad, mashing the 1 key over and over makes me feel like I'm playing a Dynasty Warrior game, minus the over-the-top Koei craziness fun. People are entertained by that?! Really?! If you think SWTOR combat is good, pick up Bayonetta, Tales of Vesperia, Witcher 2 or Dark Souls, those games will blow your !@#$ing mind.

Pathetic bosses, I don't mean they're to easy, I mean they're just lame. I have yet to run across a boss that made combat fun. A mobile 2 story cannon sounds awesome, but in the end it's tank, spam healz for about 20 !@#$ minutes.

This is World of Warcraft people, spice up story all you want, bragging that you can kill quest givers? That's a good thing? Whoopy !@#$ing do, what does that accomplish? Oh right, Red Eyes Black Dragon, er um, Red Eyes Black Jedi. Not to mention the ugly Aesthetics.

Believe it or not, what I typed before isn't my biggest problem. My biggest problem: BioWare could have made something special from SWTOR, made it really unique and innovative. Instead, they made WoW with lightsabers.

Sums up my experience [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68VfgesWmcI]

Oh well, at least there is still Guild Wars 2.

 

[Paladin Anderson]

I'd speculate two years to some kind of F2P model - less than two years if the update schedule sucks or EA gives in to temptation and starts pushing microtransactions at its subscribers.

This is EA. The company that would crucify their mothers if there was a nickle to be had in it. I'd give it a month before they come out with micro transactions.

It's an EA game. I'm not touching it.

 

[spartandude]

i havnt played it, but to the people who are defending the bugs and what not, yes it is only a months out and will have bugs, but its got to go against WoW whether it likes it or not, to do that you need to have a top quality product from day one

EDIT, however i will make a complaint, its not KotOR III!!!, did they have massive brain strokes at EA/Bioware and decide that rather than creating the game people have been asking for since 2004 they went for an MMORPG which nowhere near as many will buy and would mean they have to go up against WoW, i mean seriously what were they smoking!?

 

[spartandude]

I'd speculate two years to some kind of F2P model - less than two years if the update schedule sucks or EA gives in to temptation and starts pushing microtransactions at its subscribers.

This is EA. The company that would crucify their mothers if there was a nickle to be had in it. I'd give it a month before they come out with micro transactions.

It's an EA game. I'm not touching it.

tbh i think its more likely for them to cancel the game than make it F2P

 

[luckshot]

I realize that a lot of magazines are touting the whole 'fast growing' thing and I will say this about it: it's a misleading premise. You see SW:TOR is a well known and beloved franchise despite all of Mr. Lucas's efforts, and has a devoted and dedicated fan base. This virtually ensures a good return in the first month or so.

"Fastest growing" is lazy magazine writers quoting Bioware's press releases word for word. Said press release was issued around a week ago, so how they managed to measure 'growth' when the game had been live for about 10 days, if that,... well, only EA/Bioware's PR department knows how they did that.

Anyway, I'll say what I always say about TOR. It's a good game but a bad MMO. The main class quests are well up to Bioware's usual standard and if you're looking for the closest thing you will likely ever get to KOTOR 3, or a typical Bioware RPG, then you'll have fun.

If you don't like heavily linear MMOs then look elsewhere. TOR is the themeparkiest themepark ever, and the worlds feel more like movie sets than actual worlds.


I simply don't feel it has the depth to last. The people that came for the story aren't going to stay en masse for the raiding, and the raiders will eventually go back to WoW, like they always do...

...well unless Mists of Pandaria is even worse than expected.

i agree with most of what you said, in SW:TOR you get to roleplay...the role/character they have chosen for you. while that works in a single player game, it doesnt feel right to me when there are thousands of others doing the exact same things in the same order at the same time playing the same role in one of the 3 same ways

i have caught myself trying to pause the game when the phone rings while playing some of the story missions, and then i am reminded that it's a mmo

and as you say the story wont keep everyone when they're done, it will depend on them pushing out fun and well written story pieces to keep people playing...which will eat into profits

 

[isometry]

My problem with SW:TOR is that the graphics and gameplay are so out of date. Most of the big MMOs in recent years have better graphics, animations, better combat, and more interesting character building (I don't mean "story", I mean picking skills, traits, etc to build the character).

I wish I could like the game, since I like KoTOR and MMOs, but it just feels like a huge step backwards from modern MMOs, like going back to 2007 or so. The story and the license just don't make up for the bad graphics, combat, and character building.

 

[Kahunaburger]

Sums up my experience [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68VfgesWmcI]

Haha this guy's youtube channel is amazing. See below: SWTOR vs. some shovelware MMORPG from Korea.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

So those of us who decide to invest in what magazines have named the "fastest growing MMO of all time", Star Wars: The Old Republic, have had a decent chance to play through. A great deal of people have already reached maximum level and it seems like the production company is trying it's best to scramble together good end game content above and beyond what it put out for release.

My question to the escapist community is this: How do you think it measures up as an MMO? Will it dethrone WoW or at the very least rise up to the same level? Or is it another samey clone, no pun intended, destined to be relegated to the free-to-play section in a few months like DC Universe and just about every other MMO in the last few years.

I'm not putting my own opinion up because frankly I want to know what the general public thinks as a whole since frankly this whole will be decided by how many people like it, not singular forum trolls like myself.

I'm afraid you're not going to get many useful or coherent responses to this question. Moreso than popular single player games, MMOs tend to be extremely polarizing. Furthermore, many of your respondents will ONLY have played WoW, or experienced the genre in the shadow of WoW, and have very little understanding of what to expect from a MMO, what a reasonable base of subscribers looks like, what constitutes "success", what subscriber ebb and flow looks like, etc, etc. Confirmation bias will have them read one bad review or good review and declare it "the truth". Those who dislike the game will dismiss all its defenders as "fanoys", those who like it will dismiss all its detractors as "haters", and on and on and on. Not to mention most MMOs should not be reviewed until the 3 month mark, which is when you'll have your best idea of how it's settling in, what the player base can be expected to look like, how end game dynamics are shaping up, how quickly content is being added/errors fixed, and so on and so on and so on. They are unusual animals, MMOs, in that you are never buying a finished product...the game will continue to evolve and change, and may end up looking very different a year or two from now than it did at release.

Regardless though...

Graphics: Quite good, if you enjoy the stylized "Clone Wars" aesthetic. Some questionable texture work here and there. Nicely differentiated planets. Engine isn't very well optimized yet, though, and performance varies wildly from machine to machine without any real rhyme or reason.

Sound: Iconic Star Wars sounds. Music is classic Star Wars, but could've been leveraged more. Voice acting is almost uniformly excellent, as we've come to expect from Bioware.

Storytelling: The big lure for TOR over its fellows. It's...it's not going to make anyone throw their copy of Planescape Torment in the fire, if you know what I mean, but there is some basic, rudimentary storytelling here, and that puts it miles ahead of its current competition. The class stories are the most compelling, but also the most quickly exhausted. I'd expect a couple of hundred hours of unique content if you alt, and then the freshness of the story will wear off.

Crafting: Neat system, lots of balance issues. Currently underwhelming and over-expensive. Needs work.

Combat: Fast, fun, kinetic. Some weird difficulty spikes. Some issues with ability delay that are being looked into by Bioware that fuss with high end PvP and PvE. Having companions along make the game more solo friendly, as you can compensate for natural class weaknesses.

Content: Strong for a launch MMO, weak when weighed against the 7 year old World of Warcraft. Probably one of the best launch MMOs in memory though, for content.

Bugs: Many. Not atypical for new MMOs, but enough to be a near constant low-key irritation, if not occasionally extremely frustrating. Range from mild cosmetic glitches to quest breaking bugs. Some TLC is needed. I would estimate the game was released 2-3 months ahead of schedule, polish wise.

Class/Race diversity: 8 classes from 4 root classes, mirrored on each side (very rigid mirrors too, not slightly differentiated mirrors as seen in a game like Warhammer). Cosmetic differences only for race selection. Those liking a lot of choices may be disappointed here.

PvP: Currently somewhat underdeveloped, it's something of an afterthought at the moment. There is no serious PvP end game in place at this time.

Group Play: Flashpoints are fun...although they don't have quite as much character as some of WoW's standout dungeons, they are better than many offerings for instanced group content. Having little story moments woven in is a nice touch. Groups are limited to 4 players, and as the tank/healer to DPS ratio is similar here to in other games using the holy trinity this puts even more of a crunch on DPS. Looking for group tools are currently underdeveloped and barely utilized, making finding a "dungeon" group difficult before you simply level past it.

No Open World: This is a lament for some, but a non-instanced galaxy would have been quite an achievement. There is significantly more "world content" here than in Rift, but progress through it is just as linear. This is very much a theme park MMO.

So, where would I rank it?

I'd say it falls in line with some of the more successful post-WoW MMOs for launch...Aion and Rift come most immediately to mind...performing better in some areas, worse in others. It has a serious leg up on those games due to the potency of the IP, however, and the developer/publisher muscle of Bioware/EA. Big initial sales numbers should help it attain and maintain the critical mass it needs to get over the inevitable initial subscriber hump. I expect it to settle somewhere between 1M and 2M subscribers, with a possible surge up to 3M if Bioware is quick about sorting out issues and adding some compelling end game content to keep people re-upping instead of banking on heavy alt play. Keeping in mind that WoW's North American audience peaked at about 3M, that would be a notable accomplishment.

It is worth noting that "a good number" of people have NOT reached maximum level yet, despite leveling being fairly brisk. The bulk of the player base is still between 15-30. As usual, MMO veterans and achievement focused players have reached 50 very quickly, and are laboring under the misconception that because they got there and their friends got there, everyone else is there too. The winter holidays allowed for quite a push, as well...TOR hit a concurrent players mark of 350,000, which, given concurrent players is seldom higher than 15% of subscribers and peaks at around 30% (which would be remarkable) gives you a good idea of how popular the game is at launch. Launch popularity =/= long term success, mind you, but the high subscriber numbers of the eternally struggling Galaxies gives one the feeling that the Star Wars IP has substantial staying power.

That help?

 

[Kahunaburger]

and as you say the story wont keep everyone when they're done, it will depend on them pushing out fun and well written story pieces to keep people playing...which will eat into profits

Good writing on a short time limit? From modern Bioware?

 

[Dumbfish1]

It's a clone of WoW, but it's a very good one. So good it's actually the best WoW-clone there is, including WoW. If you want a WoW style MMO this is the best one. I find myself playing it for the story (Sith Inquisitor) more than to level up my character. There's virtually no grind.

However it does nothing to inovate, it copies the best features of other MMOs, but I think this is a dying format. It's most likely going to be the last great WoW style game, there's plenty of interesting looking MMOs coming up, planetside 2 and Guildwars 2 to name a few.

 

[Kahunaburger]

there is some basic, rudimentary storytelling here

I think this is the problem. It's not exactly good by the standards of storytelling in general, or even other games (particularly not most other Bioware games.) So all it can really compete with is other MMOs.

Then, it runs into the issue that people don't play multiplayer games to have a story told to them - they play them to experience their own stories in an interesting and enjoyable environment. Less "remember the time the character in a cutscene said the thing?" and more "remember the time we beat The Library on Legendary at 3 AM/owned everything as a Heavy-Medic combo/killed Crawmerax/got our house blown up by creepers?"

 

[BloatedGuppy]

It's a clone of EQ, but it's a very good one. So good it's actually the best EQ-clone there is, including WoW. If you want an EQ style MMO this is the best one. I find myself playing it for the story (Sith Inquisitor) more than to level up my character. There's virtually no grind.

However it does nothing to innovate, it copies the best features of other MMOs, but I think this is a dying format. It's most likely going to be the last great EQ style game, there's plenty of interesting looking MMOs coming up, planetside 2 and Guildwars 2 to name a few.

I fixed your post for you. I really wish more people weren't laboring under the impression that the genre started in November 2004. It might give them some perspective, as well as understanding that "WoW clones" are just the evolution of a distinct sub genre of MMO that has been around for over a decade now and started with Everquest.

They're not going anywhere any time soon, either. GW2 is an evolution of this sub genre as well.