The Perfect Apolitical/Politics Free Video.

[Dreiko]

The problem with the whole politics argument is it's being combined with death of the author so people can complain that things are problematic because of an interpretation of the things and it's now somehow deemed fine to accept that as true and the author saying no they didn't intend said thing is wrong.

Worse we're seeing the attitude of "Depiction = endorsement" where anything shown without it literally having a character explain it as bad suddenly ends up with people claiming that clearly it's an endorsement. You know like when Jim Sterling was being accused of being a Nazi because he didn't explain in every video the whole Norsefire flag and dictator look was a deliberate joke.

I think ultimately what people mean when they say they don't want politics in their games is they don't want propaganda. If you shine anything through a prism it always will look distorted in the same way so people who have only one prism they look things through will see politics everywhere but the rest of us are able to not do that so when the game feels preachier than it needs to be, when it tells and doesn't show, that's what gets the reaction.

I don't think anyone was against MGS being anti-war or having tons of politics in it, and being anti-war is a very left-wing policy, because it also had a lot of cool ninja and giant nuke robots and mech arms and bodysuit wearing hot chicks to go along with it. It doesn't feel like it's a preachy progressive pussified creation, even though it has those messages.


People need to realize you can have those messages without the trappings of the accompanying tribal imagery. Though to some people those are what they're into more than the actual progressive principle. It's more about a manly looking lesbian beating dudes to death with her 5 inch clit than about fighting for justice and the downtrodden in an actually cool and hype way. People just imagine the progressiveness in the subtext they project onto the creation because it fits in with their worldview. Meanwhile the rest of us just see a repugnant ode to misery.

 

[CriticalGaming]

I think ultimately what people mean when they say they don't want politics in their games is they don't want propaganda. If you shine anything through a prism it always will look distorted in the same way so people who have only one prism they look things through will see politics everywhere but the rest of us are able to not do that so when the game feels preachier than it needs to be, when it tells and doesn't show, that's what gets the reaction.

I don't think anyone was against MGS being anti-war or having tons of politics in it, and being anti-war is a very left-wing policy, because it also had a lot of cool ninja and giant nuke robots and mech arms and bodysuit wearing hot chicks to go along with it. It doesn't feel like it's a preachy progressive pussified creation, even though it has those messages.


People need to realize you can have those messages without the trappings of the accompanying tribal imagery. Though to some people those are what they're into more than the actual progressive principle. It's more about a manly looking lesbian beating dudes to death with her 5 inch clit than about fighting for justice and the downtrodden in an actually cool and hype way. People just imagine the progressiveness in the subtext they project onto the creation because it fits in with their worldview. Meanwhile the rest of us just see a repugnant ode to misery.

I think it's also context of the game itself right? Like an espionage game like MGS would make sense to have politics contained within. Military games like Ghost Recon (though Ubisoft is stupid so whatever on this), and such are games in which politics don't really phase people.

It's games like Tomb Raider, or Uncharted, or The Last of Us, things that people go for escapism in which having political messages annoy people.

And frankly even escapist games can get away with political themes if they are well written and clearly not just some pandering insert. Think about all the fantasy games in which the political games of kingdoms come into play. Fire Emblem for example. Those games don't get dumped on for political themes. Why not? Because if you layer your political message in enough fantasy guff, people will not notice and take the story for what it is.

Final Fantasy 7 has a very anti-corporate and environmental-friendly political message. The themes run throughout the game of protecting the planet form basically fossil fuel companies. But because the game is well told and those messages don't really linger despite popping up constantly, the overall story keeps the players focus on following Sephiroth and it distracts your attention enough where the political message becomes subliminal.

Politics is fine in games, but it has to be handled carefully. Too up front with it, and players will reject it.

 

[Dreiko]

I think it's also context of the game itself right? Like an espionage game like MGS would make sense to have politics contained within. Military games like Ghost Recon (though Ubisoft is stupid so whatever on this), and such are games in which politics don't really phase people.

It's games like Tomb Raider, or Uncharted, or The Last of Us, things that people go for escapism in which having political messages annoy people.

And frankly even escapist games can get away with political themes if they are well written and clearly not just some pandering insert. Think about all the fantasy games in which the political games of kingdoms come into play. Fire Emblem for example. Those games don't get dumped on for political themes. Why not? Because if you layer your political message in enough fantasy guff, people will not notice and take the story for what it is.

Final Fantasy 7 has a very anti-corporate and environmental-friendly political message. The themes run throughout the game of protecting the planet form basically fossil fuel companies. But because the game is well told and those messages don't really linger despite popping up constantly, the overall story keeps the players focus on following Sephiroth and it distracts your attention enough where the political message becomes subliminal.

Politics is fine in games, but it has to be handled carefully. Too up front with it, and players will reject it.

Not even that necessarily, I just beat Sakura Wars which is a game set in an alternative history steampunk 1940 japan where the whole world is being attacked by demons so the whole world is combined against them instead of fighting world war 2. Such a setting would be prime for political messages.

But the game is about using mechs to fight demons between headpatting the cute ninja girl or going on a date with the writer girl or peeking at the angry girl taking a bath. Also about theatrical performances and singing and stuff.

You can very easily make anything not have to do with politics even if the setting lends itself to it.


FFVII has the wrong tribal markings, Tifa his hot and Aeris is cute and Jessie is thirsty and none of them are fat or ugly or rude (the Aeris swearing thing is an invention of the american dub, in Jp she does not swear at all and is perfectly angelic) or antipathetic. Even if it has all the right politics it will still rub people the wrong way for not looking the part.

 

[Dwarvenhobble]

I think ultimately what people mean when they say they don't want politics in their games is they don't want propaganda. If you shine anything through a prism it always will look distorted in the same way so people who have only one prism they look things through will see politics everywhere but the rest of us are able to not do that so when the game feels preachier than it needs to be, when it tells and doesn't show, that's what gets the reaction.

I don't think anyone was against MGS being anti-war or having tons of politics in it, and being anti-war is a very left-wing policy, because it also had a lot of cool ninja and giant nuke robots and mech arms and bodysuit wearing hot chicks to go along with it. It doesn't feel like it's a preachy progressive pussified creation, even though it has those messages.


People need to realize you can have those messages without the trappings of the accompanying tribal imagery. Though to some people those are what they're into more than the actual progressive principle. It's more about a manly looking lesbian beating dudes to death with her 5 inch clit than about fighting for justice and the downtrodden in an actually cool and hype way. People just imagine the progressiveness in the subtext they project onto the creation because it fits in with their worldview. Meanwhile the rest of us just see a repugnant ode to misery.

The thing with MGS is it doesn't pretend to have the answers either.

It's Anti-War but it is also a critical thought exercise showing how different approaches to ending war fail.

The Boss's Sacrifice ends war but only temporarily.

The Patriot A.I. Ends war but only on a large scale by instead making everything a series of small skirmishes of mercenary units.

Foxdie ends wars by trying to take out targeted individuals but creates wars because of the result of said people being taken out.

The Senator in Metal Gear Rising tries to end war by treating war like a business to be acquired and fully controlled.

One of the big fractures you can see in gaming is Bioshock Infinite because some people really got annoyed when you end up finding that the revolution isn't that noble and virtuous even if they're not the racists of the authority controlling the place.

A lot of the time when I see people pulling arguments about "Well everything is political" or such to defend a game it's often games where it does pretend to have the answers or isn't a nuanced look.

As an example people tend to keep on about how good The Last of Us Part II is with it's "revenge is bad" narrative. However then you watch Hell on Wheels and you get a really well told really far better done revenge is bad narrative because the show makes you root for people to get their revenge then goes "An here are the consequences of that revenge, you wanted them to get now see what comes of it". One episode were you're looking forward to finally seeing a villain get their comeuppance turns into a near hour long episodes of a prolonged slugfest dragging out through the American outback with both sides more and more injured and barely hanging onto life by the end of a brutal fight. The reason Hell on Wheels works well is because it understands you need to have hope and some happiness to be able to take it all away. It's a show where they ring a character back from the dead basically and it's this great moment of hope only to dash that hope when you find out the character is basically now half insane from a brain injury and no longer the character they once were but now a dangerous threat to the people they loved.

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

I think ultimately what people mean when they say they don't want politics in their games is they don't want propaganda. If you shine anything through a prism it always will look distorted in the same way so people who have only one prism they look things through will see politics everywhere but the rest of us are able to not do that so when the game feels preachier than it needs to be, when it tells and doesn't show, that's what gets the reaction.

I don't think anyone was against MGS being anti-war or having tons of politics in it, and being anti-war is a very left-wing policy, because it also had a lot of cool ninja and giant nuke robots and mech arms and bodysuit wearing hot chicks to go along with it. It doesn't feel like it's a preachy progressive pussified creation, even though it has those messages.

Another thing is it’s ultimately a game of anti-nuke themes, primarily towards a country that has the sole designation of ever using them against another nation (which is of course probably pretty personal to Kojima, being from said nation). The nukes also created Godzilla as a coping mechanism ffs. The broader anti-war stuff followed mostly because Kojima had never envisioned the series lasting so long.

 

[Silvanus]

Politics is fine in games, but it has to be handled carefully. Too up front with it, and players will reject it.

I mean, I don't really see how the politics in FFVII can be considered "subliminal", or even subtle. It's right in your face. It has the subtlety of a sledgehammer.

What I don't really understand is why games should have this bizarre requirement to avoid going full-on with politics. No other art form has this requirement. If someone moaned about Nineteen Eighty-Four or Brave New World or The Handmaid's Tale being "too political", and that literature should put its political themes out of the way and hide it behind the fun stuff.... they'd be rightly called a luddite.

Or imagine making the argument for The Deer Hunter, or Philadelphia, or Dr. Strangelove, or a thousand other incredibly up-front politically-charged classic films. The argument would just be laughed out of the room.

So it should be with games. They're a form of artistic media. There's no earthly reason politics should be left out, or even pushed to the back, if the writer doesn't want 'em to be.

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

What I don't really understand is why games should have this bizarre requirement to avoid going full-on with politics.

See, here's the thing. Do you remember when "the gamers" were moaning that video games had just as much artistic merit as any other medium? They didn't really care about that; they just wanted Mom to quit telling them to stop playing "those games for little kids" and go out and get a job. But the ploy worked too well, and people started critiquing video games like every other artform, examining their political and societal statements. Now "the gamers" are trying desperately to put the genie back in the bottle with their "bruh, it's just a game, stop being so critical" pleas.

 

[BrawlMan]

See, here's the thing. Do you remember when "the gamers" were moaning that video games had just as much artistic merit as any other medium? They didn't really care about that; they just wanted Mom to quit telling them to stop playing "those games for little kids" and go out and get a job. But the ploy worked too well, and people started critiquing video games like every other artform, examining their political and societal statements. Now "the gamers" are trying desperately to put the genie back in the bottle with their "bruh, it's just a game, stop being so critical" pleas.

Yep. Hypocritical biatches who'll change their opinion when it suits them or want to extend the goal post, because they don't wanna think or have their "pwecious feelings hurt!". Pussies.

 

[Dreiko]

See, here's the thing. Do you remember when "the gamers" were moaning that video games had just as much artistic merit as any other medium? They didn't really care about that; they just wanted Mom to quit telling them to stop playing "those games for little kids" and go out and get a job. But the ploy worked too well, and people started critiquing video games like every other artform, examining their political and societal statements. Now "the gamers" are trying desperately to put the genie back in the bottle with their "bruh, it's just a game, stop being so critical" pleas.

I could remember those gamers making fun of the "games are art" crowd though. Mainly cause they were propping up terrible walking sims as art more than anything, mind you.

I think the people pushing the games are art crown were actually the ones who went on to criticize them as such. They needed games to be art for their opinions to be relevant.

Meanwhile most of us just want games to be good, and don't really care if some fuck things they're art or not.

 

[Avnger]

I could remember those gamers making fun of the "games are art" crowd though. Mainly cause they were propping up terrible walking sims as art more than anything, mind you.

I think the people pushing the games are art crown were actually the ones who went on to criticize them as such. They needed games to be art for their opinions to be relevant.

Meanwhile most of us just want games to be good, and don't really care if some fuck things they're art or not.

Maybe it's your age, but you're looking at events starting after what Rogue is talking about. The late 90s, early 2000s was the big push to recognize games as art.

The proto-alt-right gamers didn't try to make walking sims into a culture war battle until the late 2000s, early 2010s. Coincidentally, that's largely when the previous decade+'s push was becoming successful.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

It's games like Tomb Raider, or Uncharted, or The Last of Us, things that people go for escapism in which having political messages annoy people.

If I remember correctly, one of those political messages was "sometimes there are lesbians"

 

[BrawlMan]

It's games like Tomb Raider, or Uncharted, or The Last of Us, things that people go for escapism in which having political messages annoy people.

That's the problem. You just escape all the time and shut out reality. Those same people that flip out for anything "political", because the person they are playing as is not white, female, trans/gay/lesbian, brown-skinned, or of a different race or religion. The same shitheads who whine and complain and being snowflakes, but will happily call those of different backgrounds and ideologies the same thing. When they tell different people to "make their own game", if they don't like the game they're playing or with politics they disagree with, the assholes flip out when said woman, trans, or man of a different color does so and their game gets success. The ones that like to claim get over it or make your own game get scared and act like babies and cry "Waah! Get your politics out of out games!". When it is pretty clear, most wanted nothing to do with the game to begin with. The same assholes who claim they can think for themselves, but when a game requires to them think about politics they don't agree with, but all of sudden they eat up the slop of greedy publishers "We're not political/Neutral" and act as if they are not mindless sheep. Note: I hate using that term, but its true how there are people out there like that. People like that don't want to think period, but refuse to admit, that dillusional, stupid, or oblivious to everyone around them, but themselves.

And frankly even escapist games can get away with political themes if they are well written and clearly not just some pandering insert.

That's bullshit and you know it. Every product panders to someone. Don't matter if it's games, books, movies, or tv. The only difference being it's not just mainly white straight men now, and it's got their panties in a twist.

Politics is fine in games, but it has to be handled carefully. Too up front with it, and players will reject it.

While true, sometimes you have to drop the anvil, because some people are stupid or don't wanna see point to fit their own warped view of morality.

 

[CriticalGaming]

That's bullshit and you know it. Every product panders to someone. Don't matter if it's games, books, movies, or tv. The only difference being it's not just mainly white straight men now, and it's got their panties in a twist.

Pandering to someone and having a political message are two different things. And sure there are assholes online that hate shit for dumbass reasons. But thats the overall minority of players and you know it.

I dont care that Ellie was a lesbian, i care that the game was shit.

The Batwoman show on TV, was shit because it was a poorly written trashfire that also happened to be filled with a bunch of gay chicks. Because the characters being gay was more important than making a good show with gay characters. Now this yesr they made batwoman black and the show is suffering the same problem. Fuck making the material good, they want people to watch it out of obligation of racial guilt.

Black Panther was a good film because it was a well written well made movie that also happened to be all black, or mostly black i dont entirely remember.

Ice Cube's Friday movies were fucking great because they were funny and well written despite having and all black cast. Straight out of Compton was great because it was just a great real life story.

Thats the thing that people dont get. Put whatever message you want, fill it with loads of transgender non binary PoC's and it will be beloved....IF the piece of media is good around all of that.

What happens is when the game or movie or show is shit, then that SJW pandering sticks out more and fuckwads will add it to the list of complaints even though they may not have cared much if they had enjoyed the rest of what they saw or played.

My complaints about Abby's body are symptoms of my dislike of the entire game. I dont like her design because it further pulled me out of a story i already hated. And because i was forced to play abby for so long it only added to the hate of her design.

If TLOU2 had been incredible, both in story and gameplay, i wouldnt have given two shits about Abby looking like a block of clay left out in the sun too long.

 

[BrawlMan]

Pandering to someone and having a political message are two different things. And sure there are assholes online that hate shit for dumbass reasons. But thats the overall minority of players and you know it.

I dont care that Ellie was a lesbian, i care that the game was shit.

The Batwoman show on TV, was shit because it was a poorly written trashfire that also happened to be filled with a bunch of gay chicks. Because the characters being gay was more important than making a good show with gay characters. Now this yesr they made batwoman black and the show is suffering the same problem. Fuck making the material good, they want people to watch it out of obligation of racial guilt.

Black Panther was a good film because it was a well written well made movie that also happened to be all black, or mostly black i dont entirely remember.

Ice Cube's Friday movies were fucking great because they were funny and well written despite having and all black cast. Straight out of Compton was great because it was just a great real life story.

Thats the thing that people dont get. Put whatever message you want, fill it with loads of transgender non binary PoC's and it will be beloved....IF the piece of media is good around all of that.

What happens is when the game or movie or show is shit, then that SJW pandering sticks out more and fuckwads will add it to the list of complaints even though they may not have cared much if they had enjoyed the rest of what they saw or played.

My complaints about Abby's body are symptoms of my dislike of the entire game. I dont like her design because it further pulled me out of a story i already hated. And because i was forced to play abby for so long it only added to the hate of her design.

If TLOU2 had been incredible, both in story and gameplay, i wouldnt have given two shits about Abby looking like a block of clay left out in the sun too long.

While pandering and a having political message are two different things, they can and will go hand in hand. Especially if done right or wrong. It's just a matter of how noticeable or subtle it is. Even if someone wants to make a great story, there will be pandering regardless if it's intentional or unintentional. I'm not saying pandering is always a bad or good thing, it's just a case of how it's used. That's life. there's always something for a specific audience in mind this is nothing new. This applies to film, books, games, comics, etc.

I do appreciate the credit you give to Friday and Black Panther. Straight Outta Compton has a great cast and story, but there are politics involved that cannot be denied. Racial injustice and police brutality. Especially to those that are black. It's not just the story and the characters. To say the politics have nothing to do with it would be a lie and to be willfully oblivious. Then again this is based off an actual rap group called NWA, so it's obvious they will tackle racial issues and bring them up front. That helps elevate the film even further.

 

[Silvanus]

Thats the thing that people dont get. Put whatever message you want, fill it with loads of transgender non binary PoC's and it will be beloved....IF the piece of media is good around all of that.

Then why does the criticism so often not focus on quality? Why does the criticism so often focus specifically on the presence of minority characters? If that's what they keep bringing up, why should we not believe that's what they have a problem with?

 

[CriticalGaming]

Then why does the criticism so often not focus on quality? Why does the criticism so often focus specifically on the presence of minority characters? If that's what they keep bringing up, why should we not believe that's what they have a problem with?

Because people are not very articulate. And therefore flaws in the story often get directed to the most obvious things that being the characters. When the story and or gameplay sucks but a PoC or LBGT character is front and center, then the stupid ape brain locks onto them as the route of the problem.

Most people who talk about games like TLoU2 and hate on it, do not really shit on Abby's design or Ellie being gay (see NakeyJakey's video about the game or any number of 2hour+ critiques on the game). Those people are able to articulate their thoughts and explain why they felt the game was bad without basically having to resort to schoolyard insults.

And to be fair, i rarely see people complain about a PoC being the main character of anything. Nobody bitches about Kevin Hart or The Rock being stars in a movie. Denzel Washington?

It only ever pops up in games and shows that suck for totally different reasons. But stupids will blame the minority star because they dont know how to express anything otherwise.

 

[BrawlMan]

Because people are not very articulate. And therefore flaws in the story often get directed to the most obvious things that being the characters. When the story and or gameplay sucks but a PoC or LBGT character is front and center, then the stupid ape brain locks onto them as the route of the problem.

Most people who talk about games like TLoU2 and hate on it, do not really shit on Abby's design or Ellie being gay (see NakeyJakey's video about the game or any number of 2hour+ critiques on the game). Those people are able to articulate their thoughts and explain why they felt the game was bad without basically having to resort to schoolyard insults.

And to be fair, i rarely see people complain about a PoC being the main character of anything. Nobody bitches about Kevin Hart or The Rock being stars in a movie. Denzel Washington?

It only ever pops up in games and shows that suck for totally different reasons. But stupids will blame the minority star because they dont know how to express anything otherwise.

Well they better step up and do a better job articulating their thoughts and opinions, because it's ridiculous. There are people that are that racist or sexist. It's an ugly truth, but it must be acknowledged. They will claim it's not racism or sexism, but most of them are either downplaying their actions or don't want to admit it being asshole.

 

[Silvanus]

Because people are not very articulate. And therefore flaws in the story often get directed to the most obvious things that being the characters. When the story and or gameplay sucks but a PoC or LBGT character is front and center, then the stupid ape brain locks onto them as the route of the problem.

Most people who talk about games like TLoU2 and hate on it, do not really shit on Abby's design or Ellie being gay (see NakeyJakey's video about the game or any number of 2hour+ critiques on the game). Those people are able to articulate their thoughts and explain why they felt the game was bad without basically having to resort to schoolyard insults.

Honestly, I'd rather take people at their word. If they're complaining about PoC & LGBT characters, then I'm inclined to believe that's their position. I'm not gonna give them so much benefit-of-the-doubt that I reimagine their gripes for them.

And to be fair, i rarely see people complain about a PoC being the main character of anything. Nobody bitches about Kevin Hart or The Rock being stars in a movie. Denzel Washington?

It only ever pops up in games and shows that suck for totally different reasons. But stupids will blame the minority star because they dont know how to express anything otherwise.

Remember the complaints about a black soldier appearing front-and-centre in Battlefield? That was dressed up as a complaint about "historical accuracy", though there's nothing inaccurate about it.

 

[happyninja42]

Well they better step up and do a better job articulating their thoughts and opinions, because it's ridiculous. There are people that are that racist or sexist. It's an ugly truth, but it may be acknowledged. They will claim it's not racism or sexism, but most of those typed are either downplaying their actions or don't want to admit it being asshole.

Yeah, I kind of take issue with the idea, that people who entirely frame their complaint around a characters gender identity and/or ethnicity (like they did with Miles Morales back in the day), are just unclear on how to truly articulate their complaints about the story! It's not racism, when you criticize a character's race....it's poor writing! They just don't know how to say that!

Sounds like BS to me.

 

[CriticalGaming]

Remember the complaints about a black soldier appearing front-and-centre in Battlefield? That was dressed up as a complaint about "historical accuracy", though there's nothing inaccurate about it.

I don't remember this at all. I remember the Battlefield V thing with the woman on the cover, the one-armed woman. And i remember DICE hyping it up because "women can do anything!" Or whatever the fucking message was, and that annoyed people because it was a woman on the cover for the sole purpose of having a woman there. And people complained in a very stupid way, of course, because they are stupid. But that didn't mean that DICE's reasoning wasn't also stupid. And i can't help but wonder if the outrage would have even existed if they had that woman on the box art and never said a word about it. If they had instead just gone, "Here's Battlefield V, enjoy." and nothing else, then people probably wouldn't have gave a shit. But they hyped it up and made it a ridiculous handicapped woman to boot basically doubling down on as many social justice points as they possibly could. Notice that nobody gave any of the Call of Duty's shit when they let you play as a woman in MP, at least none that I can remember becoming news stories.

Yeah, I kind of take issue with the idea, that people who entirely frame their complaint around a characters gender identity and/or ethnicity (like they did with Miles Morales back in the day), are just unclear on how to truly articulate their complaints about the story! It's not racism, when you criticize a character's race....it's poor writing! They just don't know how to say that!

I don't think you understand how stupid people are. Expecting someone to be able to understand and convey what was actually bothering them is a harder thing than you might expect. And stupid people will latch onto the superficial or the most memorable thing they can because it's the easiest to recall, and that usually means the characters.

I will stand on the line of this: People do not care about playing women or people of color in a video game, because there is too much evidence of female characters and PoC's (though admittedly fewer than there should be) of being stand out memorable and favorited games. Blaming racism or sexism for your game or show or movie failing is a bullshit cop out misdirection for your project simply being trash.

Can anyone point any game ever that would have been a smash hit if only it hadn't stared some chick or black guy? "Man this game would have been awesome if I didn't have to play as this *racist/sexist slang*." Any game?