The Philippines Outlaws Trolls, Cybersex

[Antonio Torrente]

Unfortunately for the nation's cam whores

That's disgusting and shameful. The kind of language I'd expect to see from someone not representing a company.

It's not acceptable. Don't use slurs to describe people you feel morally superior to. If you dislike how some people choose to behave while not harming anyone, or how some enjoy their sex life, go ahead and ignore it. Don't spit out that kind of bile.

Nerd, geek, loser -- words you may be called for playing video games. Used by bullies and assholes to make themselves feel better.
Whore, slut, skank -- words you may be called for enjoying sex or being flirtatious. Used by morally condescending people and the occasional sexually frustrated loner.

If your personal issues give you the urge to use any of the latter, you lose the right to dislike, complain or condemn the use of the former. Words designed to shame and hurt have zero place here. Your stories would do well to keep your chosen morality and gutter slang out of them.

OT: The Philippines has an infamously high level of sex trade slaves, including in the internet cam show industry. While some people (and I use the term lightly) traffic women into physical prostitution, the "cam show" industry is much less risky to get into and has seen a large influx in money coming its way lately. Since 9/11 and the terrorist attacks throughout Asia, tourism has sunk drastically and countries and businesses that relied on it, are looking for other ways to make up the gap and the sex trade is one of them. With the ever increasing availability of the internet, people seeking to get their sexual fix are meet with a larger and larger market. Cam shows are an easy way to make instant money and they sucker people into spending a lot of it. You don't require people to come to your country, anybody around the world can get to your slaves and credit cards remove the need for physical money to ever trade hands.

The government is trying to make it less easy for them to get into and less profitable. No sense coming down on one avenue if they can run into another. They're going about it crudely and, I'd wager, ineffectively, but don't dismiss the intent because you fail to understand the cause.

Agreed, completely unprofessional and undermining the fact that there's a serious issue that the Philippines government is trying to fix. Different society, culture and problems then say the US (for example) face everyday.

Another reason they passed this law is because its election next year and those politicians want to looking good or in local terms "pagpapapogi" in the eyes of the voters.

 

[Antonio Torrente]

You know what guys I'm not gonna defend my country with this bullshit law because it will never work (like everything else in this wretched hive). It can easily bypassed or find a work around in say a couple of days or weeks, so back to square one. Nice work President Aquino!

Another is will it affect the ordinary Filipino such myself and those who are less fortunate that lives on the street or under the bridges to name a few?

No, because unless my government can somehow get their shit together those cam girls and cam whores will use that venue as a source of income.

And Greg I appreciate you reporting this. Thank you.

 

[Aerosteam]

While I do approve of the law against 'cyber-sex', I'm a little confused as to why you'd get 12 years just for trolling.

You could learn Spanish and read the law yourself.

Just a heads up, we don't speak Spanish in the Philippines. I hope you didn't know that. Also I don't really like it when the country I come from is bad-mouthed, no matter what kind of statement it is. It sort of makes me upset. =/

The entire country is a mess. That said, its going to be interesting to see how they plan to enforce this seeing as how they already have trouble enforcing some of their most basic laws.

 

[Smooth Operator]

Oh I am well aware that there are girls that do it willingly, it just seemed like the main point of this: "designed to protect young women from being forced into the "cam girls" trade." was pertaining to girls that aren't doing it willingly.

Coercion was illegal in the first place and if they had any serious intent then they would deal with that problem appropriately, the only thing they did now is make victims legally liable not to mention kill the entire fair trade part at the same time.

Tackling problems ass first, always a great idea.

 

[Mattlore]

Oh I am well aware that there are girls that do it willingly, it just seemed like the main point of this: "designed to protect young women from being forced into the "cam girls" trade." was pertaining to girls that aren't doing it willingly.

Coercion was illegal in the first place and if they had any serious intent then they would deal with that problem appropriately, the only thing they did now is make victims legally liable not to mention kill the entire fair trade part at the same time.

Tackling problems ass first, always a great idea.

Heh, I agree that it's a really piss poor way to combat this situation as I believe that this is a COMPLETE breach of freedom of speech and expression, since a lot of people have pointed out that there is a legit side to the business where women willingly partake in this kind of act and I believe that if these women want to do this, all the power to them.

 

[Uber Waddles]

Then we get down to the controversial stuff. Banning cybersex is stupid, from my point of view, but theirs probably a reason. Cyber Sex cartels sounds made up, but I don't live in the Philippines, so I don't know how big of an issue it is. Personally, I believe its a way of expressing sexuality in a more controlled manner than other forms, but is still very risky and damaging to a person - you're never sure who's filming and uploading those exploits. I don't partake in it, but hey - to each their own.

Just a clarification, the qualifier "for favor or consideration" is at the end of that section is added for a reason, it means it can't be done in exchange for payment. They're not outlawing what people can do over skype/yahoo/etc. with each other, only that they can't do it for pay. HUGE difference.

captcha: needs, must *really?*

The cyber sex I was referring to in this post wasn't just a couple getting their grove on via Skype. Such a thing would be nearly impossible to regulate. I was referring to cyber sex websites based off of paying a premium for a showing.

And I find the ban on that to be stupid for the reasons I posted. Its a form of expressing sexuality just like things like orgies, pornographic theaters, BDSM, sexual encounters with strangers, etc. I personally think all of those are not only stupid, but risky. At the end of the day, its your body though - and what you choose to do with it, as long as you are an adult, is your concern.

If people want to strip and do sexual acts over the internet for money, its a hell of a lot safer then going to a street corner. You could make the argument, depending on the area and parameters, that its as safe (or even safer) than stripping (although both are equally sketchy in practices, payment, etc, and I wouldn't condone either unless you knew the full spectrum of risks versus benefits. Another conversation entirely there though).

The idea of carteling people for cyber sex was an issue brought up around this topic. If your forced into a situation where you have to have cyber sex, chances are that same party is going to push you to either do it anyways or push you into something FAR worse. Which is depressing if you think about it, but still.

As far as I'm concerned, thats the only implimentation thats wrong. Its about time we see a crackdown for libelous speech - I wish their were stricter penalties for it elsewhere. Maybe not 12 years in jail, but enough to certainly send a message.

 

[deathninja]

"lascivious exhibition of sexual organs"

Just imagine that read in Stephen Fry's voice. Glorious.

 

[veloper]

"Libelous speech" huh? That's not trolling, or not trolling perse. A troll only has to push the right buttons any way he may, because it's all about the angry responses.
Libel may include angry comments and possibly even personal opinion.
Seems to me that philipinos had better avoid all online contact now, because they've just become prime targets for evil foreign trolls.

 

[LetalisK]

I am deeply offended by this article. "Cam girls"? Really? I'm sure some may in fact be girls, but I think it's safe to say the vast majority of "cam girls" are actually adult women. Referring to them as "girls" is derogatory, demeaning, and diminishes their status as full-grown autonomous human beings....yeah, I don't have the will to do five paragraphs on this. Poe's law.

OT: As others have said, this seems like a back-asswards way of doing this. If there is a problem with cam- being forced to do it, shouldn't it be pursued along those lines rather than "Nobody gets to do it"? Though I'll be honest, I'm not sure how it would be enforceable in either case.

 

[Beautiful End]

I dunno...on one hand, you got countries working on creepy ways to interact with each other online, most meant for couples who are far away (Like that weird head you kiss and the other person has the same device on the other end of the connection?). And hey, if its for that purpose, a couple should be allowed to do whatever.
On the other hand, cybersex is...weird. Ad as far as I know, only horny teenagers do it. For malicious purposes, then sure, arrest people. But I dunno, seems a bit excessive for the rest.

As far as trolls, sure, they suck balls. But jail? Eh...too much also. Unless they're the psychopath kind that go look you up and beat you up, then sure. but in that case, the problem is not bullying but more or a psychological problem. Most of them are just insecure people acting like big shots. We all know you just gotta ignore a troll and move on.

So yeah...isn't there anything else to do in the Philippines than to pick on people online? Like, you know, criminals out there? ...No? Alright, my bad, then.

 

[The Pumpkin Witch]

Unfortunately for the nation's cam whores

That's disgusting and shameful. The kind of language I'd expect to see from someone not representing a company.

It's not acceptable. Don't use slurs to describe people you feel morally superior to. If you dislike how some people choose to behave while not harming anyone, or how some enjoy their sex life, go ahead and ignore it. Don't spit out that kind of bile.

Nerd, geek, loser -- words you may be called for playing video games. Used by bullies and assholes to make themselves feel better.
Whore, slut, skank -- words you may be called for enjoying sex or being flirtatious. Used by morally condescending people and the occasional sexually frustrated loner.

If your personal issues give you the urge to use any of the latter, you lose the right to dislike, complain or condemn the use of the former. Words designed to shame and hurt have zero place here. Your stories would do well to keep your chosen morality and gutter slang out of them.

Its a joke, take it with a grain of salt and relax a little bit. The news posts here are informal as most gaming communities are and as such, they tend to place humorous jabs within their articles and writings. Whether you find these things funny or not is up to you, but it does not give you the right to dictate how the man does his job or writings. If you want a formal writing on what is occurring in the Philippines, I suggest going to a news site, reading an international paper or you could learn Spanish and read the law yourself.

OT: The entire country is a mess. That said, its going to be interesting to see how they plan to enforce this seeing as how they already have trouble enforcing some of their most basic laws.

It's highly inappropriate to call someone a whore. Period. If a user was to describe a group as anything like that, they'd rightfully be met with moderation. I would expect the staff and individuals working for the website would also refrain from malicious slurs. The term whore isn't a descriptor and it isn't a hobby. The word is meant to degrade and to shame. Again, no place for it here.

I've every right in the world to give constructive criticism and I did; I pointed to something very wrong, explained why it is wrong and how to fix it. You not liking my constructive criticism doesn't give you the right to tell me not to do it. I worded myself carefully and did nothing at all wrong. If you want to attempt to defend calling someone a whore and consider it "humorous," you're more than welcome to. I am also welcome to say no. No it is not okay. Yes, it's incredibly offensive.

He didn't call anyone a whore though. There is no specific group or gender or race or anything who is left being targeted by that phrase. He used the word in a descriptive manner to give us a stereotypical image of who is effected by this law. In this case, we imagine the duck facing teenagers who are constantly posting images of themselves with statues that say "OMG! im so fat!". Its not a group of people and it isn't a single person. Its a stereotype, a stock character, a ludicrous idea that we use not as an insult, but to laugh at the sheer absurdity of someone actually acting like that. Yes, there are some people who act that way, in the same way that there are actual hipsters who use the phrase "too mainstream", but I highly doubt many of them will be "insulted" by what Mr.Carter said and I doubt they even crossed Mr. Carter's mind when he wrote it down. Heck, you did the same thing when you wrote a stereotypical description of people who use the words like whore, slut or skank. You created an absurd stereotypical image that is meant to convey an image of a goody two shoes individual. And you know what? I'm sure there are people in this world who would still take offense at your definition.

True, you do have the right to give constructive criticism, but I am not seeing the same issue from my point of view. You're giving far too much power to the word and you're allowing it to be offensive when its not even being used as an insult, but as an internet meme.

If you entered a thread and used the terms nerd, geek or loser, justifying it by saying it's a genuine descriptor for people that are into technology, you'd be laughed at and hit the a warning. If you do the same thing with cam whore in its place, you should also cop the penalty.

It is exceptionally offensive to women and it's not okay. Do not use it to describe someone. Simple. We had this conversation not long ago and Susan clarified; you are not to use words or phrases that can be reasonably believed to be offensive -- you don't call a friend "******" here, even if you two genuinely use it in casual conversation. If you call someone a whore, you are being offensive. I don't make a thread and throw around loser, geek and nerd, hiding behind the inane excuse that I didn't aim it at anyone specifically.

Microsoft is changing their EULA? Too bad for all the losers and nerds.

Stereotyping your target and pretending it's normal to slander and degrade certain people doesn't make it any better. Don't even try to act like it does.

I... have to agree. That was a bit cringe worthy. "Cam Prostitutes" would have, maybe, been acceptable to see, since that's a descriptor accurate to what the law was talking about, but yeah, what was there was a bit much, glad it's been changed.

This. I agree, too. "Cam prostitute" is what came to mind for me, too.

Grey, thanks for changing it. Be more wary in the future, please. Boudica isn't the only one who found your choice of words offensive. She's pissed off enough for us all.

Call down, Boudica. If you get banned you won't be able to speak against this sort of thing.

 

[The Wooster]

Grey, thanks for changing it. Be more wary in the future, please. Boudica isn't the only one who found your choice of words offensive. She's pissed off enough for us all.

Call down, Boudica. If you get banned you won't be able to speak against this sort of thing.

At the risk of causing more of a kerfuffle; I didn't change my wording, my editor did. If given the choice, I wouldn't have.

Interesting that "Cam Whores," which is entirely gender neutral, has sparked offense, while "Cam Girls," which implies the activity is limited solely to women, hasn't. Odd that.

 

[Nurb]

Derpderpderp ignore post

 

[antipunt]

I don't really understand all the hate on the OP's post at all. None of it was intended to be disrespectful.

Though it may be colored by the fact that I've seen Grey's writings/posts and he seems like he's all 'nice and funny' without a hint of malice .__.

 

[AnotherAvatar]

The Philippines Outlaws Trolls, Cybersex

According to comments made to The Sun (the newspaper, as opposed to the celestial body) the cybersex law is designed to protect young women from being forced into the "cam girls" trade.

My big problem is this: when, in the history of humanity, has prohibition of ANYTHING ever stopped people from doing it? No, I'm afraid this will just turn those cam girls it's trying to save from the profession into prisoners.

 

[MyNameIsNowNotMyName]

Call down, Boudica. If you get banned you won't be able to speak against this sort of thing.

uhhh, I hate to be "that guy", but according to this post it's already too late.

Boudica was banned? Fantastic.
*Ahem* Anyway... As many others have said here, how would one go about enforcing this law? Full scale internet censorship in a country might be quite a difficult feat, and I really don't think their government would actually bother jailing children for 12 years for trolling. I guess they can rationalize the cyber sex thing in anyway they want, I just really don't see how it would work.

 

[The Pumpkin Witch]

Grey, thanks for changing it. Be more wary in the future, please. Boudica isn't the only one who found your choice of words offensive. She's pissed off enough for us all.

Call down, Boudica. If you get banned you won't be able to speak against this sort of thing.

At the risk of causing more of a kerfuffle; I didn't change my wording, my editor did. If given the choice, I wouldn't have.

Interesting that "Cam Whores," which is entirely gender neutral, has sparked offense, while "Cam Girls," which implies the activity is limited solely to women, hasn't. Odd that.

Baiting, Grey? Not all of us will let ourselves lose our tempers.

As I said earlier the term "Cam prostitute" would be preferable. It would also me more intructive. "Cam girls" could leave anyone scratching their head if mentioned without context.

You may intend "Cam Whore" to be gender neutral. I understand. But whenever people use the terms 'slut', 'whore', or even 'prostitute' the terms are generally associated with women because, obviously, most prostitutes are women. If you called a guy a slut I think most guys would preen at the idea of being so 'studly' they could get paid for sex.

'Whore' and 'slut' are more derogatory terms than 'prostitute'. The negative association is felt there by most women. Given that the laws the Philippinos passed are apparently intended to fight the coercion of women and especially under aged girls into working for pimps the use of "Cam Whore" feels callous. Like many women I've known a couple of girls who have prostituted themselves. It isn't glamorous or sexy. One girl I'll call "Jane" only did it because she couldn't afford to keep her apartment and was afraid of being evicted and thrown into the street. That was before we met and became friends, but I could tell it haunted her. The prostitution business isn't "Pretty Woman".

 

[Zefar]

12 YEARS for such a thing? Holy hell that is wrong. You could probably kill a few people and not go over 10 years.

The guys making the rule must have been like "Well if I can't do it, NO ONE can!". As it sounds like someone is seriously butthurt from this.

12 years? Good lord.