The Problem With Twilight

[Superior Mind]

Yesterday a 23 year-old man from my town was found dead in the cinema after watching Twilight Eclipse.

I am not kidding. [http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/3885798/Man-found-dead-after-Twilight-screening-in-Wellington]

Whether it's full dedication to giving the film a negative review or just proof of how truly awful it is, (I mean it can cause people to die just by watching it! Fuck it doesn't even give you the seven days!) I think it's safe to say that none of us here would wish that fate on anyone.

So yeah. Twilight. Scary in ways you don't expect.

Notice the cops said that the death isn't being treated as suspicious? It's like they expect this kind of thing to happen to people who watch Twilight! Holy Hell...

 

[Gigano]

The Problem With Twilight

It's more than just bad moviemaking.

Read Full Article

A very good analysis of some of the problematic "values" which apparently underscores the Twilight series in some less overt ways. I doubt that many young girls will take it up on those values though, even if they do love the series. They, or at least a vast majority amongst them, should be quite capable of distinguishing dreamy fun from actual reality.

To take another - and immensely better - franchise, Lord of the Rings basicly argued for a monarchy where some king(s) should wield all power to save humanity, with any societal problems being relegated to sorcerous advicers and broken bloodlines, and in a black/white conflict set up against a completely dehumanized enemy against which violence was the only answer; these highly anti-democratic and anti-diplomatic sentiments, as well as it being religiously inspired to some extent, didn't stop me from enjoying it immensely, but I certainly didn't take any of those "values" to heart in the slightest, and neither did the vast majority of other viewers.

Avatar pulled a pretty similar stunt. Those native navi tribes were apparently structured as part monarchy, part theocracy, and god knows what they'd have done with any liberal dissenters on the total tribal unity presented to us as unproblematic. And yet it made a pretty passable movie to dream away to - if not offering any kind of political values worthy of a civilized democratic society.

If we've seen those movies (and many like them), and not turned into a rageing royalist, then Twilight probably isn't going to turn any significant amount amongst these young girls into chaste domestic abuse victims either, however it might subconsciously like to. And the few it might do stick with were probably so impressionable that some other figment of reality would have messed them up eventually.

To restate, I agree completely that the views presented in the series (and many other franchises, including some I personally enjoy) are problematic and backwards, but I doubt they'll have any noticeable effect, even on teenage girls, in the way they behave outside the dream. Or so I hope...

 

[katsumoto03]

-snip-

....so why are we assuming that the average Twilight fan is so gullible?

Have you seen the twilight fans?

 

[filiptom]

I'm pretty sure most of the fans liked the movies, then just decided they liked the books, probably without reading them. And they only liked the movies for the shirtless guys (let's face it, the only people watching this are girls and gays). The books, not having actual images of shirtless guys, weren't what got them into the series.

Also:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSaBkOqltiY[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSaBkOqltiY

 

[MpSai]

I think the Twilight series is a pretty disturbing window into Meyer's psyche really.

I don't tend to point fingers at media, but seriously, these books/movies portray a controlling, abusive relationship as romantic. And this is fed to little girls. I thought it was more than suicide too, wasn't she constantly injuring herself just so she could see hallucinations of Edward yelling at her about it? Has she internalized him that much? And this is supposed to be romantic not INSANE?

 

[Krantos]

She went to BYU

Ever hear of Brandon Sanderson? Meyer's may have gone to BYU, but Sanderson Teaches there.

And you know what? He's currently my favorite author. His books are just amazing.

Here's the thing: Everyone of his books/series so far (Elantris, Mistborn, and Warbreaker) has religion playing a very prominent role (often even the main-plot), but none of those religions in any way reflect Mormonism. They are specially created for the stories and the best part is they all make sense. Unlike authors like Goodkind (who make it very clear that he's an atheist) Sanderson doesn't put religions in to bash or praise them. They're just there, and they're very believable both in form and in how people respond to them.

Frankly I was surprised to find out he teaches at BYU, because you'd never guess it from his books. I mean, one of his books ended by making GOD. Seriously, it ends with one of the characters becoming God. I'm surprised they didn't Fire him for that.

Anyway, my point is that Meyer going to BYU is no excuse for bad writing. Using that excuse you could say that Goodkind is forgiven for having the same 10 page monologue speech against religion in every single book just because he's atheist. No. That's not cool.

Seriously, though, check Sanderson out. He's one of the most talented writers in the field today.

 

[PhiMed]

Social attitudes around sexual promiscuity and restraint do not progress in one direction but rather cycle back and forth throughout history. Just look at the Romans.

Suggesting that the fall of Rome was not kind of a step backwards for society?

That's a complicated question for which I don't have a quick answer, but I don't think the fall of Rome had much to do with social values and much more to do with economic sustainability of military expansionism. The point is, throughout history attitudes on sex span the spectrum from society to society and I doubt anyone could convincingly show any linear "forward" or "backward" direction over time.

I didn't say it had anything to do with social values. You just said that there wasn't progress in one direction or the other in terms of sexual promiscuity, then cited the Romans as a sexually promiscuous society. This seemed to imply to me that Romans were "back", and most of what has come since has been "forward".

It may have been "forward" in time, but generally speaking, I'd say that everything for about 1600 years after the fall of Rome can safely be considered "back" from Rome in every conceivable fashion other than chronologically.

You are free to contest this, and you're correct that attitudes cycle in the short term, but the long-term trend is that technological advancement and general living standards are correlated positively with loosening attitudes about sex and greater independence for women.

So I call bs on your suggestion that there is no "forwards" or "backwards" regarding sexual attitudes and women's rights.

I'll say Roman society was a pretty mixed bag. As great as it was, I'm not sure I would like to have lived in it, or preferred it over the middle ages (discounting the climate changes and epidemics that had nothing to do with the social order). I suspect a strong link between Roman brutality and the rise of Christianity.

While empowerment of women I agree is a "forward" trend, I wouldn't equate that with attitudes about sex. I mean, assuming Movie Bob's interpretation of the hidden meanings is valid--who wrote and who is going to read and watch the Twilight books and movies? Shouldn't women be free to enjoy their entertainment, and interpret as they please, and hold what values they do, whatever that may be?

The Romans had running water and public waste disposal, while the Europeans of the Middle Ages had... gulleys they dumped their chamber pots in. So yes, I'd say that social order had quite a bit to do with the epidemics of the Middle Ages, other than the bubonic plague. Technologically, the early Middle Ages weren't all that different from rural life under the Roman Empire, yet there was a persistent immigration to urban centers, so it appears that most of humanity who actually lived during that time disagreed with your assertion that life during the Middle Ages was preferable to Roman rule.

As for the target audience of the Twilight books, the women who read these books are certainly free to read watever they want and interpret it as they wish. I think Bob was more worried about the girls who are reading these, as am I. Girls are still developing personalities and attitudes about interaction between the genders, and the audience is overwhelmingly adolescent.

And before you say, "Well, who are you to stop them," ask yourself this: "How are Bob or Phimed stopping anyone?" They're certainly free to read and watch whatever they like, and there's nothing we're going to do to stop them, even if we're trying (which, by the way, we aren't). So maybe you should take your own advice, and let us discuss what we like, rather than trying to tell us we have no business discussing it.

 

[AgentNein]

I still say this is a big double standard and overreaction. Women read all kinds of shitty romantic stuff. So what if one of them happens to have vampires and abstinence allegory? Get over it. It wasn't written for you.

This is like a woman complaining that porn is sending the wrong message.

Just because he hasn't critiqued those other shitty romantic book series' doesn't mean he can't critique this particular one. That's not an argument you're making, that's what we call a discussion killer. Plus, the Twilight series is a special case, due to its overwhelming popularity with young impressionable girls. It's sending some pretty fucked up messages to them.

You're right, this series isn't for Moviebob. That has nothing to do with anything. It's a series aimed young girls, with some pretty alarming and back woods messages for them (intentional or not, it doesn't matter).

And yeah, for the record, some women do have issues with contemporary pornography. But I won't bother opening up that can of worms.

 

[Fearzone]

And before you say, "Well, who are you to stop them," ask yourself this: "How are Bob or Phimed stopping anyone?" They're certainly free to read and watch whatever they like, and there's nothing we're going to do to stop them, even if we're trying (which, by the way, we aren't). So maybe you should take your own advice, and let us discuss what we like, rather than trying to tell us we have no business discussing it.

Woah... where did I say that? The issue I have boils down to the title of this article: "The Problem with Twilight." If instead it was "My Disagreement wtih Twilight" I probably wouldn't have said anything. But Movie Bob is pushing personal values as if they were some kind of historical fact, and I'm just pointing how that his, and I guess your, values on this matter are no more right or wrong than born-agains at the Sunday picnic. You are free to have them, to persuade other of them, including me and the girls watching twilight, in fact I side with you more than I've let on so far, but realize they are just personal values and people can have ones to the contrary and be just as right.

 

[Yureina]

I've never even gone near Twilight because it is something far removed from my genre. After having read this article (great article by the way ) and thinking about it a bit, I think I now have even stronger reasons for not doing so. So, yet another person who has a desperate need to confine themselves to age-old ideas of how the two genders should act and behave? I'm glad I haven't gone near this stuff, because I probably would be beside myself with rage after reading it.

 

[Carnagath]

It's funny how people who are well educated, have a critical mind and have read a lot of books, and people who are completely clueless muppets like Moviebob (sorry, I can only giggle when he claimed to have read The Road in his review of its movie adaptation and mentioned that it was mostly a book about atmosphere building and nothing else) seem to agree that the Twilight novels are terrible. It's probably the only book series where I've seen such a universal agreement (with the exception of teen girls).

 

[PhiMed]

Woah... where did I say that?Right

assuming Movie Bob's interpretation of the hidden meanings is valid--who wrote and who is going to read and watch the Twilight books and movies? Shouldn't women be free to enjoy their entertainment, and interpret as they please, and hold what values they do, whatever that may be? here.

Nice try, liar. You know we archive what you say, right?

 

[buhee]

www.mylifeistwilight.com

^
this is why i hate twilight. (as well as everything everyone else has mentioned...bad story, bad writing, bad messages being put forward...)

 

[Rick1940]

I...I guess I just don't understand exactly what's wrong with the "virginity until marriage" message. That mantra doesn't necessarily lead to utter submission to a man. At the very least, it's better than the opposing message, which would encourage lust-filled teenage girls to just act on every impulse they have. Like I said, I'm just not seeing why this message in particular is such a grave problem.

The problem is that if women stay virgins until marriage, they might become traditional housewives, which would raise wages.

If women insist on having promiscuous sex from 18 to 30, then those women must avoid traditional marriage. Thus many of them go into the labor force - they work during the day and party at night. Thus wages go down, and the government can collect income taxes from them.

Typical "pro-sex" feminism weakens traditional family structure, lowers wages, and strengthens governments.

Thus the political class and the media continue to join hands and push a "sexual liberation" agenda which promotes promiscuity and denigrates patriarchal traditions.

 

[Thedayrecker]

Wow this paragraph

Here is the pivotal scene in Eclipse, the third movie/book of the Twilight Saga. To protect her from attack by evil "newborn" vampires, Edward spirits Bella to the top of a mountain to wait out the monster-vs-monster bloodletting. Unfortunately, their tent provides little protection from a sudden snowstorm, and Bella is in danger of freezing to death - which Edward's ice-cold vampire physiology can do nothing to prevent. On the other hand, romantic rival Jacob's werewolf superpowers imbue him with so much body heat that he and his buddies can run though the snow in their beachwear, so he enthusiastically volunteers himself as a one-man lycan space-heater - meaning that Edward has to suck it up and deal with his girlfriend snuggling for survival with the "other man." "Face it," Jacob needles, "I'm hotter than you."

Just made me suicidal

 

[Fearzone]

Nice try, liar. You know we archive what you say, right?

There are some things one just cannot argue.

 

[Revolutionary]

Thank you so very much for articulating that.

 

[Ridergurl10]

The Problem With Twilight

It's more than just bad moviemaking.

Read Full Article

I'm so glad someone else sees the problems with this series that I do.

Although I worry much more about teaching girls that their lives should revolve around a guy (or two), then brainwashing them into thinking they have to stay virgins. An entire generation of girls who can't think for themselves just scares me, thats all there is to say.

There are SOOO many better books for teenage girls with MUCH better messages . . . not to mention better writing. Although I'm pretty sure I've read elementary school book reports with better writing than this series

If you want an in-depth article with rich external links on why Twilight sucks and is a TERRIBLE influence for young girls, check the 2 following sites out:
http://io9.com/5096763/twilight-makes-for-the-best-fanwank-ever
http://www.cracked.com/funny-36-twilight/

Seriously, this franchise is terrible from a literary perspective too.

First of all, you are totally right! The books are all terribly written! Really, Stephanie Meyers needs to find a new profession, because she isn't very good at the one she currently has! Second, thanks for the article recommendations! They were great! I am now really tempted to pass these along to my Twilight-loving (and insane) friends!

 

[UBERfionn]

Throw in some insults between vampires and shape-shifters for good measure, as well as a sprinkling of poor decisions and love triangles and there we go.

Lets not forget a sprinkling of sparkles!!

 

[Necromancer1991]

Again though the ramifications of this book is less in the message and more in the fact that all books of the whole "insert Genre here"-romance will all be compared to this pile of tripe, as for the message, again, it's all lost in the scheme of things, also the main reason almost no major organization has drawn attention to the message is thus, THEY LIKE THE MESSAGE (which just plain pisses me off)! I really hope someone goes Catcher in the Rye and ends up getting this book banned.