The R Word

[Creatural]

I told you they might commit suicide over being triggered.

Then people who are suicidal should not be playing such games.

Also, most abusers are victims of some kind of abuse themselves and this includes rape. I'm not using fake examples and these are not nonviolent. They are very violent.

Then again, violent people should be watched and not playing games that might set them off.

And again, it's not being offended, a trigger literally changes the chemistry in someone's brain. PTSD does more than offend someone. If it was just offending someone I'd say because it offends people.

And I'm not going to walk on eggshells because somebody might have PTSD.

And I wasn't saying you should go to prison for saying that as long as you didn't make anyone do something harmful, but if you triggered someone to the point they killed themselves, when you knew it could trigger someone, I would think that people should put you in jail, yes.

Luckily your not running the judicial system.

You're part of society and subject to its rules and that means caring about other people enough to not be damaging to them.

I don't have the expectation to walk on egg shells.

I didn't say they were suicidal before, remember I said people don't always know how they're going to respond until something happens. That also applies to the violence against others.

You haven't proven to me that you have the right to say rape whenever you like when you could potentially get someone hurt or killed.

I haven't proven to you that you need to avoid saying harmful things, but I do feel like I've said enough as I do believe people are somewhat responsible for the actions of others when they hurt them and I think this is where we disagree the most.

 

[lacktheknack]

A terrible article with dangerous ramifications, and I demand an opportunity to provide a counterpoint even though I know I will not be allowed one.

....provide it here maybe?

I'm on probation already and every time I provide an opinion contrary to the popular one I get reported.

You might want to work on your delivery? Or perhaps you should consider the opinions you have on things, and why the things you say might negatively affect people?

If those were the rules, "The R Word" article would never be posted as it is a request to limit free speech. But nobody considers that because my view is the minority and thus does not count.

He's not forcing anybody to not say anything. He's saying that you should think before you speak because you could *be hurting someone* with your words.

Buuuut I don't think you really get that, seeing as how you've said that an article about a man baring his soul about one of the most excruciating things that can happen to a human being is a "terrible article with dangerous ramifications."

That may be one of the most disgusting things I have ever heard somebody say.

And yet... somehow... they SAID THEM ANYWAYS.

If they were REALLY unable to say things like that, THERE WOULD BE NO SONG.

There's a reason I didn't post the actual video. It's heavily censored and the nude images of the band members would likely get me banned.

The existence of a more graphic video doesn't actually help your case... it hurts it.

My "case" is actually quite simple and is infallible: I can't say what I want to. You cannot deny that I am being limited in my argument against the R word article or even in posting a youtube video. Regardless of whether you somehow prove everyone who doesn't share your opinions are all insensitive dickheads, my point has already been proven. I'm being censored, right now.

...Because you're on a private website with their own subset of rules.

Censorship is an overarching ban on something you wish to communicate.

There is nothing, NOTHING, stopping you from going to /b/ and saying literally anything you want (that doesn't involve CP, but that's not censorship, that's purely illegal). NOTHING. Thus, you are not being censored any more than tank tops are censored because my high school didn't allow them.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

I didn't say they were suicidal before, remember I said people don't always know how they're going to respond until something happens. That also applies to the violence against others.

All the more reason why people shouldn't be expected to walk on eggshells.

You haven't proven to me that you have the right to say rape whenever you like when you could potentially get someone hurt or killed.

Yes I have, just look at the part of what you typed that I made bold. "People don't always know how they're going to respond until something happens".

I haven't proven to you that you need to avoid saying harmful things, but I do feel like I've said enough as I do believe people are somewhat responsible for the actions of others when they hurt them and I think this is where we disagree the most.

When I tell someone to harm others, you may have a point. However, I haven't said that I would do that. I said that I have the right to express how I have just done well in a game by saying that I "raped" something.

 

[Shjade]

I never claimed you were shooting them to death, so again your reading comprehension fails.

..lol, ok. I guess I'm not killing them, just cause serious physical harm. Point still stands that your example doesn't hold up because I'm not physically harming someone like I would if I shot them.

As an aside, I find it rather funny that you're throwing around "appeal to emotion" so often as if you think it will lend some kind of additional weight or intellectual value to your own position. The reason I find this funny is that your position is, itself, based on emotional reasoning. Specifically, you choose not to limit your freedom of expression because "it isn't fun." Not only an emotional (and selfish) reason, but an incredibly shallow emotion at that.

Your hypocrisy amuses me.

Glad your amused, but my argument has been about my right to express myself.

Right, except that you noted the reason you care about that right to express yourself is that it's how you have fun; if you couldn't express yourself, you wouldn't have as much fun. That is an appeal to emotion.

Emotional harm can be as damaging as physical harm. As others have said before, and as I will repeat (knowing full well you aren't going to acknowledge it regardless), the problem isn't offending people. Any number of things you might say might offend someone. That happens all the time. The point here is that you actually harm people. Your argument doesn't really even apply given that freedom of expression doesn't cover instances that potentially cause harm to others (see also: hate speech, shouting "fire" in a crowded theater, etc.).

You seem to think you are in a position in which you need to be convinced you shouldn't be allowed to be a detriment to other people. In reality, the burden here is on you to prove that you should.

 

[Daaaah Whoosh]

Oh, if only rape was just as bad as losing in a game of Halo...

Anonymous, I get the feeling I can't say much to you that'll mean anything. I don't have that kind of authority. But still, thank you for writing this. I had no idea, I always seem to forget that insults were made to be harmful, and can hurt some much more than others. Damn, Xbox Live needs a new vocabulary...

 

[rembrandtqeinstein]

Late to the party and all but imo its the responsibility of the person who might be offended to not subject themselves to situations that might offend them.

Not the responsibility of the whole world to change their behavior on the off chance someone might not like it.

And XBox live is a sewer. Complaining about it is like finding a dog turd in your lawn, taking a big bite, then whining that it doesn't taste good. Just do what any sensible person does, turn off voice chat.

 

[Danzavare]

snip

I have alternatives but I have the right to say what I want, regardless if you like it or not.

As for playing games, they can play them and mute me if they don't like me.

No comments on feminism.

I know, my arguments are a 'should' not 'have to' matter. I mean, you also have the right to say nothing but utterly stupid things. I wouldn't suggest it, there are plenty of intuitive and practical reasons why you shouldn't, but you still have the right to.

They can, but it shouldn't have to come to that.

And I wouldn't suggest that you advocate that I should conduct myself according to your whims.

Thats your opinion I guess, I disagree.

(You posted before I submitted my edit. Oh well, it wasn't that important. <.<; )

Characterising it as a whim is more than a tad dismissive. It's good manners and basic compassion at little to no cost for good benefits. It's an intuitive and reasonable desire to have, that people strengthen their vocabulary a little to avoid an unnecessary but destructive problem. So no, it's not just a whim as you call it.

That being said, my request doesn't require an entire change in conduct. Just a tiny bit of education and a better use of words. It's an easy solution to solve an unnecessary problem.

It's really not that scary, I promise.

 

[Creatural]

I didn't say they were suicidal before, remember I said people don't always know how they're going to respond until something happens. That also applies to the violence against others.

All the more reason why people shouldn't be expected to walk on eggshells.

You haven't proven to me that you have the right to say rape whenever you like when you could potentially get someone hurt or killed.

Yes I have, just look at the part of what you typed that I made bold. "People don't always know how they're going to respond until something happens".

I haven't proven to you that you need to avoid saying harmful things, but I do feel like I've said enough as I do believe people are somewhat responsible for the actions of others when they hurt them and I think this is where we disagree the most.

When I tell someone to harm others, you may have a point. However, I haven't said that I would do that. I said that I have the right to express how I have just done well in a game by saying that I "raped" something.

What are you even saying? When I say you don't know what's going to happen I'm telling you that you might hurt someone in the worst way possible and you shouldn't say it because of that. If anything that proves even more that you shouldn't say what you know could hurt someone. You haven't convinced me of anything, don't spin things to try to make it look like I said I thought you proved something to me you haven't, that's dishonest.

And yes you can harm someone by saying you raped something. This article wouldn't exist if you couldn't hurt someone by saying that word.

Just accept that you haven't convinced me and move on with your life.

 

[MatsVS]

One thing has been made abundantly clear in this thread: Unexamined privilege is a poison that rots the soul.

You still haven't told me why privilege is a bad thing, but thanks for the silly comment.

Because your privilege lends you the assumption that you having fun at the expense of everyone around you is a-ok. The rest of us just wants video games to be a place for EVERYONE, you want it to be a place for YOU. You are a hindrance and you can't even see it. Privilege.

 

[Taunta]

I always love when rude people try to cloak themselves in the first amendment to justify being purposely abrasive.

It's not about your right to express yourself. Your right to express yourself ends when you're infringing on someone else's rights to not be grievously emotionally harmed.

Also your "but I think it's fun!" is also an appeal to emotion. Just by the way. When the original discussion is about human emotion and civility, then brushing arguments off as "appeals to emotion, didn't read" doesn't work.

Perhaps you should examine why your enjoyment of a game is so closely entwined with the usage of the word "rape" and other hurtful language.

It's not "censorship" it's "Basic Social Skills". Typically people who are not social clods don't go around spouting inflammatory jokes and phrases in public because they don't know you like that. If you want to reserve your right to joke about rape then that's fine, but you should keep it around people you know, like how people like to keep other inflammatory statements around their friends, because you as a group have decided that you're okay with discussing it. (Anon's example of his Game of Thrones party is a good example of what could happen when you run your mouth around people that you don't know are okay with it.) Running your mouth in public is not a good practice, and it's gotten a lot of real life people in trouble, even lost their jobs.

I never thought I'd have to explain "Why you can't say certain things in public".

OT: I wanted to thank you Anon, and commend you on how brave you are to put something like this out on the interwebs. I can't tell you that I understand your experience, because I don't, but I will offer that I've had to write about (different) traumatic experiences of my own and I know it's not easy to put those words down, much less having to live through all those emotions while you try to write it. I can't imagine how emotionally exhausted you must have been after finishing, but the internet is better for it, I think.

This was a really heavy article and I hope it will open some eyes out there. That bit about the sound of your arm breaking was so real and so visceral, I became nauseous. Lots of respect to you as a writer for that.

Thank you for this, Anon.

 

[WoahDan]

I really wish people would stop making absolute statements and inaccurate terminology in important issues like these, it makes enemies out of those who would otherwise agree with you.

Obviously people should stop throwing around terms like 'rape' in casual online discussion,its bad manners if nothing else, but that is no reason to go around saying things like 'you cannot make jokes about rape!' or 'you should never say anything that might hypothetically offend someone!'. When you say things like that people(who otherwise agree with you)are going to call you out on it because that is a stupid thing to say.

 

[Teshi]

Rape is never funny. Don't quote Carlin at me, that was the least funny bit he ever did.

Agreed. I hope he wasn't aware the rates of rape and sexual abuse are in the far north, and how much trouble this has caused in communities. It was ignorant and offensive and, yes, not funny.

 

[xaszatm]

-THE ARGUMENT is not a logical one, you can't actually use a logical fallacy on an emotional argument. I've been trying to tell you this and you keep ignoring that. And if you want to win your argument you actually do have to prove your point.

This argument is about self censorship and you haven't convinced me why I should not be allowed to say what I want other than "it offends some people".

Okay...I understand that you have the RIGHT to say what you want. That is perfectly fine. What I don't understand is WHY you would WANT to say it. I...I literally cannot comprehend any reasoning behind such callous insulting, especially to other people you do not know.

Maybe I'm too optimistic but I always thought that such words were to be ashamed of, not lauded. I don't think you would just casually say such people to random people off the street, so why do you feel the need to say it over a game? What possible benefit could you gain by doing this? I literally do not know. Please explain. I cannot understand such a lack of empathy or such a desire to insult people you do not know...

 

[manaman]

You know, the current crop of comments is making a forced utopia or 1984 scenario look preeeetty dang good.

OT: That was an excellent article, Anonymous. People often ignore that words are not just words.

I will happily put up with a thousand idiots abusing their rights so that I myself may still have them.

 

[lacktheknack]

You know, the current crop of comments is making a forced utopia or 1984 scenario look preeeetty dang good.

OT: That was an excellent article, Anonymous. People often ignore that words are not just words.

I will happily put up with a thousand idiots abusing their rights so that I myself may still have them.

I will do so as well, but most certainly not happily.

 

[Daeggreth]

You have officially ruined my night, but I am grateful you did.

This sums up my feelings perfectly.


Anonymous; thank you.

 

[Clearing the Eye]

Hot damn, there is a lot of talk about feminism and what is and isn't feminist lately.

My empathy for the cause has shrunk considerably.

EDIT: derp, wrong word -_-

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

Right, except that you noted the reason you care about that right to express yourself is that it's how you have fun; if you couldn't express yourself, you wouldn't have as much fun. That is an appeal to emotion.

Its not appeal to emotion when I said that the issue was about censorship and not having fun.

Emotional harm can be as damaging as physical harm.

I disagree.

Your argument doesn't really even apply given that freedom of expression doesn't cover instances that potentially cause harm to others (see also: hate speech, shouting "fire" in a crowded theater, etc.).

Again using examples that don't apply. I'm not saying hate speech or saying something with the intent to physically harm someone.

You seem to think you are in a position in which you need to be convinced you shouldn't be allowed to be a detriment to other people. In reality, the burden here is on you to prove that you should.

No, if your going to try to dictate what I can and can't do, your going to be burden with telling me why I should care what you think.

It's really not that scary, I promise.

That's great, I still don't find it appealing.

What are you even saying?

That I shouldn't be held accountable for the inconceivable possibility that someone might freaking out over an expression I use. Not that confusing.

One thing has been made abundantly clear in this thread: Unexamined privilege is a poison that rots the soul.

You still haven't told me why privilege is a bad thing, but thanks for the silly comment.

Because your privilege lends you the assumption that you having fun at the expense of everyone around you is a-ok. The rest of us just wants video games to be a place for EVERYONE, you want it to be a place for YOU. You are a hindrance and you can't even see it. Privilege.

No, I think it is a place where you and I can express ourselves freely. I have the right to say that I "raped" the last match and you have the right to tell me off and mute me for using the term rape in such a manner.

 

[manaman]

You know, the current crop of comments is making a forced utopia or 1984 scenario look preeeetty dang good.

OT: That was an excellent article, Anonymous. People often ignore that words are not just words.

I will happily put up with a thousand idiots abusing their rights so that I myself may still have them.

I will do so as well, but most certainly not happily.

Well yeah. I mean I was stretching it a bit to better get my point across. Yeah, I do get pretty annoyed at times, but overall it's a good thing.

It's the whole freedom versus security argument. You have to sacrifice freedoms for increased security. At what point do you say no more?

 

[lacktheknack]

You know, the current crop of comments is making a forced utopia or 1984 scenario look preeeetty dang good.

OT: That was an excellent article, Anonymous. People often ignore that words are not just words.

I will happily put up with a thousand idiots abusing their rights so that I myself may still have them.

I will do so as well, but most certainly not happily.

Well yeah. I mean I was stretching it a bit to better get my point across. Yeah, I do get pretty annoyed at times, but overall it's a good thing.

It's the whole freedom versus security argument. You have to sacrifice freedoms for increased security. At what point do you say no more?

I know, and I agree. Although, based on this thread, if I was suddenly offered a no-free-speech utopia, I'd be scarily tempted.