The R Word

[WoahDan]

I really wish people would stop making absolute statements and inaccurate terminology in important issues like these, it makes enemies out of those who would otherwise agree with you.

Obviously people should stop throwing around terms like 'rape' in casual online discussion,its bad manners if nothing else, but that is no reason to go around saying things like 'you cannot make jokes about rape!' or 'you should never say anything that might hypothetically offend someone!'. When you say things like that people(who otherwise agree with you)are going to call you out on it because that is a stupid thing to say.

 

[Teshi]

Rape is never funny. Don't quote Carlin at me, that was the least funny bit he ever did.

Agreed. I hope he wasn't aware the rates of rape and sexual abuse are in the far north, and how much trouble this has caused in communities. It was ignorant and offensive and, yes, not funny.

 

[xaszatm]

-THE ARGUMENT is not a logical one, you can't actually use a logical fallacy on an emotional argument. I've been trying to tell you this and you keep ignoring that. And if you want to win your argument you actually do have to prove your point.

This argument is about self censorship and you haven't convinced me why I should not be allowed to say what I want other than "it offends some people".

Okay...I understand that you have the RIGHT to say what you want. That is perfectly fine. What I don't understand is WHY you would WANT to say it. I...I literally cannot comprehend any reasoning behind such callous insulting, especially to other people you do not know.

Maybe I'm too optimistic but I always thought that such words were to be ashamed of, not lauded. I don't think you would just casually say such people to random people off the street, so why do you feel the need to say it over a game? What possible benefit could you gain by doing this? I literally do not know. Please explain. I cannot understand such a lack of empathy or such a desire to insult people you do not know...

 

[manaman]

You know, the current crop of comments is making a forced utopia or 1984 scenario look preeeetty dang good.

OT: That was an excellent article, Anonymous. People often ignore that words are not just words.

I will happily put up with a thousand idiots abusing their rights so that I myself may still have them.

 

[lacktheknack]

You know, the current crop of comments is making a forced utopia or 1984 scenario look preeeetty dang good.

OT: That was an excellent article, Anonymous. People often ignore that words are not just words.

I will happily put up with a thousand idiots abusing their rights so that I myself may still have them.

I will do so as well, but most certainly not happily.

 

[Daeggreth]

You have officially ruined my night, but I am grateful you did.

This sums up my feelings perfectly.


Anonymous; thank you.

 

[Clearing the Eye]

Hot damn, there is a lot of talk about feminism and what is and isn't feminist lately.

My empathy for the cause has shrunk considerably.

EDIT: derp, wrong word -_-

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

Right, except that you noted the reason you care about that right to express yourself is that it's how you have fun; if you couldn't express yourself, you wouldn't have as much fun. That is an appeal to emotion.

Its not appeal to emotion when I said that the issue was about censorship and not having fun.

Emotional harm can be as damaging as physical harm.

I disagree.

Your argument doesn't really even apply given that freedom of expression doesn't cover instances that potentially cause harm to others (see also: hate speech, shouting "fire" in a crowded theater, etc.).

Again using examples that don't apply. I'm not saying hate speech or saying something with the intent to physically harm someone.

You seem to think you are in a position in which you need to be convinced you shouldn't be allowed to be a detriment to other people. In reality, the burden here is on you to prove that you should.

No, if your going to try to dictate what I can and can't do, your going to be burden with telling me why I should care what you think.

It's really not that scary, I promise.

That's great, I still don't find it appealing.

What are you even saying?

That I shouldn't be held accountable for the inconceivable possibility that someone might freaking out over an expression I use. Not that confusing.

One thing has been made abundantly clear in this thread: Unexamined privilege is a poison that rots the soul.

You still haven't told me why privilege is a bad thing, but thanks for the silly comment.

Because your privilege lends you the assumption that you having fun at the expense of everyone around you is a-ok. The rest of us just wants video games to be a place for EVERYONE, you want it to be a place for YOU. You are a hindrance and you can't even see it. Privilege.

No, I think it is a place where you and I can express ourselves freely. I have the right to say that I "raped" the last match and you have the right to tell me off and mute me for using the term rape in such a manner.

 

[manaman]

You know, the current crop of comments is making a forced utopia or 1984 scenario look preeeetty dang good.

OT: That was an excellent article, Anonymous. People often ignore that words are not just words.

I will happily put up with a thousand idiots abusing their rights so that I myself may still have them.

I will do so as well, but most certainly not happily.

Well yeah. I mean I was stretching it a bit to better get my point across. Yeah, I do get pretty annoyed at times, but overall it's a good thing.

It's the whole freedom versus security argument. You have to sacrifice freedoms for increased security. At what point do you say no more?

 

[lacktheknack]

You know, the current crop of comments is making a forced utopia or 1984 scenario look preeeetty dang good.

OT: That was an excellent article, Anonymous. People often ignore that words are not just words.

I will happily put up with a thousand idiots abusing their rights so that I myself may still have them.

I will do so as well, but most certainly not happily.

Well yeah. I mean I was stretching it a bit to better get my point across. Yeah, I do get pretty annoyed at times, but overall it's a good thing.

It's the whole freedom versus security argument. You have to sacrifice freedoms for increased security. At what point do you say no more?

I know, and I agree. Although, based on this thread, if I was suddenly offered a no-free-speech utopia, I'd be scarily tempted.

 

[Rad Party God]

Amazing article.

I had an experience with many victims of rape and it certainly wasn't pleasent. I'm fortunate enough of not being a victim myself and God helps me of not becoming one myself, but it was heart breaking enough to hear their stories, that I started to imagine how horrifying it is and I think that's the closest thing I'll ever have of being a victim of rape myself.

I'm guilty of using the word with my friends in the past, heck, we even joked about "being raped" and we even mimicked the action of raping each other. I never used the word in any online game, ever.

I'm actively avoiding using that word with my friends ever again, no matter how drunk I may get with them.

 

[Creatural]

Right, except that you noted the reason you care about that right to express yourself is that it's how you have fun; if you couldn't express yourself, you wouldn't have as much fun. That is an appeal to emotion.

Its not appeal to emotion when I said that the issue was about censorship and not having fun.

Emotional harm can be as damaging as physical harm.

I disagree.

Your argument doesn't really even apply given that freedom of expression doesn't cover instances that potentially cause harm to others (see also: hate speech, shouting "fire" in a crowded theater, etc.).

Again using examples that don't apply. I'm not saying hate speech or saying something with the intent to physically harm someone.

You seem to think you are in a position in which you need to be convinced you shouldn't be allowed to be a detriment to other people. In reality, the burden here is on you to prove that you should.

No, if your going to try to dictate what I can and can't do, your going to be burden with telling me why I should care what you think.

It's really not that scary, I promise.

That's great, I still don't find it appealing.

What are you even saying?

That I shouldn't be held accountable for the inconceivable possibility that someone might freaking out over an expression I use. Not that confusing.

One thing has been made abundantly clear in this thread: Unexamined privilege is a poison that rots the soul.

You still haven't told me why privilege is a bad thing, but thanks for the silly comment.

Because your privilege lends you the assumption that you having fun at the expense of everyone around you is a-ok. The rest of us just wants video games to be a place for EVERYONE, you want it to be a place for YOU. You are a hindrance and you can't even see it. Privilege.

No, I think it is a place where you and I can express ourselves freely. I have the right to say that I "raped" the last match and you have the right to tell me off and mute me for using the term rape in such a manner.

My what are you even saying wasn't to be taken literally. It was more of a reaction to you being dishonest enough to try and say that you had proved something to me when you've done nothing of the like. And continue to do nothing of the like I might add.

And it's not freaking out, it's not becoming offended, it's being triggered. It's different from everything else and that's why we use a different word for it.

Also, it's not inconceivable, again you have part of this article as documentation of that fact and plenty of places you could be looking for that information. You could also actually read what we've said and realize that it's not inconceivable with that body of information provided to you as well.

 

[Clearing the Eye]

No, I think it is a place where you and I can express ourselves freely. I have the right to say that I "raped" the last match and you have the right to tell me off and mute me for using the term rape in such a manner.

I think some people consider anything they dislike to actually be objectively bad and therefore demand its removal, as if doing so is logical and true. They come at things from the perspective wherein their opinion is correct or "the most correct," rather than seeing issues of conflicting opinions as matters of taste and bias, where nothing is more or less correct and where what an individual feels carries no weight.

We all do it from time to time. Some more than others.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

Okay...I understand that you have the RIGHT to say what you want. That is perfectly fine. What I don't understand is WHY you would WANT to say it. I...I literally cannot comprehend any reasoning behind such callous insulting, especially to other people you do not know.

I guess after saying that I'm "starving" when I really mean that I haven't eaten in a few hours or saying that a test is "killing" me when I really mean that I find a test difficult, I just think that "rape" is just a word like "starving" or "killing". As such, it isn't something to get worked up over.

Maybe I'm too optimistic but I always thought that such words were to be ashamed of, not lauded. I don't think you would just casually say such people to random people off the street, so why do you feel the need to say it over a game? What possible benefit could you gain by doing this? I literally do not know. Please explain. I cannot understand such a lack of empathy or such a desire to insult people you do not know...

Just a form of expression I guess. Also when I was in highschool, the term was used very often when a person did well on a test.

It's not about your right to express yourself. Your right to express yourself ends when you're infringing on someone else's rights to not be grievously emotionally harmed.

Eggshells that I don't have to walk on.

Perhaps you should examine why your enjoyment of a game is so closely entwined with the usage of the word "rape" and other hurtful language.

I have and people are making a big thing out of nothing.

It's not "censorship" it's "Basic Social Skills". Typically people who are not social clods don't go around spouting inflammatory jokes and phrases in public because they don't know you like that. If you want to reserve your right to joke about rape then that's fine, but you should keep it around people you know, like how people like to keep other inflammatory statements around their friends, because you as a group have decided that you're okay with discussing it.

I go back to what I have typed previously, I have a right to say it and people have a right to tell me off and mute me.

Running your mouth in public is not a good practice, and it's gotten a lot of real life people in trouble, even lost their jobs.

I'm not some silly celebrity on twitter, nor do I live in the UK. Thanks for the concern though.

I never thought I'd have to explain "Why you can't say certain things in public".

If you want me to follow your rules when I don't have to then you better explain yourself.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

And it's not freaking out, it's not becoming offended, it's being triggered.

Your arguing over semantics now.

Also, it's not inconceivable, again you have part of this article as documentation of that fact and plenty of places you could be looking for that information. You could also actually read what we've said and realize that it's not inconceivable with that body of information provided to you as well.

Seeing as not everybody is going to read this, it is inconceivable.

No, I think it is a place where you and I can express ourselves freely. I have the right to say that I "raped" the last match and you have the right to tell me off and mute me for using the term rape in such a manner.

I think some people consider anything they dislike to actually be objectively bad and therefore demand its removal, as if doing so is logical and true. They come at things from the perspective wherein their opinion is correct or "the most correct," rather than seeing issues of conflicting opinions as matters of taste and bias, where nothing is more or less correct and where what an individual feels carries no weight.

We all do it from time to time. Some more than others.

...um ok? Just making an observation I take it?

 

[Clearing the Eye]

And it's not freaking out, it's not becoming offended, it's being triggered.

Your arguing over semantics now.

Also, it's not inconceivable, again you have part of this article as documentation of that fact and plenty of places you could be looking for that information. You could also actually read what we've said and realize that it's not inconceivable with that body of information provided to you as well.

Seeing as not everybody is going to read this, it is inconceivable.

No, I think it is a place where you and I can express ourselves freely. I have the right to say that I "raped" the last match and you have the right to tell me off and mute me for using the term rape in such a manner.

I think some people consider anything they dislike to actually be objectively bad and therefore demand its removal, as if doing so is logical and true. They come at things from the perspective wherein their opinion is correct or "the most correct," rather than seeing issues of conflicting opinions as matters of taste and bias, where nothing is more or less correct and where what an individual feels carries no weight.

We all do it from time to time. Some more than others.

...um ok? Just making an observation I take it?

Yea, sorry, lol. Was kind of adding to what you were talking about.

Carry on!

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

And it's not freaking out, it's not becoming offended, it's being triggered.

Your arguing over semantics now.

Also, it's not inconceivable, again you have part of this article as documentation of that fact and plenty of places you could be looking for that information. You could also actually read what we've said and realize that it's not inconceivable with that body of information provided to you as well.

Seeing as not everybody is going to read this, it is inconceivable.

No, I think it is a place where you and I can express ourselves freely. I have the right to say that I "raped" the last match and you have the right to tell me off and mute me for using the term rape in such a manner.

I think some people consider anything they dislike to actually be objectively bad and therefore demand its removal, as if doing so is logical and true. They come at things from the perspective wherein their opinion is correct or "the most correct," rather than seeing issues of conflicting opinions as matters of taste and bias, where nothing is more or less correct and where what an individual feels carries no weight.

We all do it from time to time. Some more than others.

...um ok? Just making an observation I take it?

Yea, sorry, lol. Was kind of adding to what you were talking about.

Carry on!

lol, ok I will. FYI, you made some good points though

 

[Creatural]

And it's not freaking out, it's not becoming offended, it's being triggered.

Your arguing over semantics now.

Also, it's not inconceivable, again you have part of this article as documentation of that fact and plenty of places you could be looking for that information. You could also actually read what we've said and realize that it's not inconceivable with that body of information provided to you as well.

Seeing as not everybody is going to read this, it is inconceivable.

No, I think it is a place where you and I can express ourselves freely. I have the right to say that I "raped" the last match and you have the right to tell me off and mute me for using the term rape in such a manner.

I think some people consider anything they dislike to actually be objectively bad and therefore demand its removal, as if doing so is logical and true. They come at things from the perspective wherein their opinion is correct or "the most correct," rather than seeing issues of conflicting opinions as matters of taste and bias, where nothing is more or less correct and where what an individual feels carries no weight.

We all do it from time to time. Some more than others.

...um ok? Just making an observation I take it?

Yeah, I am just mentioning how you should be using words, is there something wrong with that? Was I arguing over something else in the last part of this? All I saw was me explaining that something wasn't meant to be taken literally as you took it, which I think is understandable to explain, and then me talking to you about words because it's a little weird that you're using them incorrectly when they've been used as they have for a reason. The word trigger is important to this stuff and I don't want you to think it's like other words you've been using alongside it or spread any ignorance about how important it actually is.

I don't see why you'd suddenly think it's unimportant to talk about words when we're talking about how damaging one word can be.

And your second inconceivable comment didn't make sense unless you meant as a joke which didn't come off too well honestly.

 

[Therumancer]

Epic Snips

So... You do realize that you're lumping good feminists in with a bunch of stupid people right?

I mean, I'll grant you that I don't know everyone. I only know a very few people, and I only listen to fewer. But the people I know who are feminists don't have these crappy "Double standards" that you keep talking about.

Because those double standards are stupid. And if a feminist says it's okay for a woman to be raped in a book with fabio on the cover then he or she isn't a real feminist.

He or she is an idiot.

Like it or not feminism today is exactly what I've mentioned. The battle for equality has already been won, now like most civil rights movements that are past their prime it's become about power. Modern feminism is about advantage, masquerading as a demand for a kind of equality that already exists.

Also do not misunderstand the point, the bit about the romance novels isn't so much about feminism, but the human condition. Having an attractive member of the gender your interested in force themselves on you is a common fantasy. Guys have their dominatrix stuff, women have their own versions. The operative term for a positive rape in fantasy is generally "ravished" to make a distinction, but the fundemental act is still the same. The point here being that in fantasy rape is not entirely a bad thing, as long as it's understood to be fantasy. The general distinction is whether the characters involved wind up enjoying themselves. See, in a book with Fabio on the cover the lady being used as a pirate's concubine, or being enslaved in Antonio Banderas' harem (he apparently did a lot of those covers and inspirational artwork early on in his career from some things I've read) the "victim" ultimatly enjoys their plight on some level, and really I have no real issue with that kind of thing. It's important to understand that it's fantasy though, and not confusing it with reality and what rare actually is, is why it requires an adult audience to be able to seperate those things.

The point about feminism is that the arguements are increasingly that women can handle that kind of thing, but men cannot. Your liable to see feminist crusades against garbage in that genere produced for a male audience, or where men dominate women who fall in love with their dominators, but you do not generally see it against the material produced for women. You generally do not see crusades by women against romance novels, yet you will see them against material covering the same grounds produced for a male audience. The idea being that men can't handle such things or should be prohibited from it selectively.

 

[Therumancer]

Your taking a shotgun to the subject in hopes of hitting something. I'll start out in being blunt in saying (as I've said before) that I myself was raped by a gay man when I was six. In my cause though I blocked it out, which doesn't make it any easier when you know it happened.

I disagree with what you have said in the rest of your post regarding feminism, but I'm very sorry about what happened to you. It's a very difficult thing to live with and even more difficult to talk about, and I respect you for being able to speak about it.

I would encourage you to talk to someone about it -- a professional, a family member, someone in the clergy, or even a friend. Believe me, talking about it helps a lot. Turning your back on it and hoping you won't remember doesn't work and often makes things worse. That was definitely the case with me.

Already dealt with, indeed having spoken to people about nightmares and such is one of the big reasons why I know it happened and obtained a lot of the details I have.

My point is simply to say that I empathize with the victims, and have a degree of understanding on the subject from their perspective, while not agreeing with a lot of the political positions and statements being made.