The R Word

[Rad Party God]

Amazing article.

I had an experience with many victims of rape and it certainly wasn't pleasent. I'm fortunate enough of not being a victim myself and God helps me of not becoming one myself, but it was heart breaking enough to hear their stories, that I started to imagine how horrifying it is and I think that's the closest thing I'll ever have of being a victim of rape myself.

I'm guilty of using the word with my friends in the past, heck, we even joked about "being raped" and we even mimicked the action of raping each other. I never used the word in any online game, ever.

I'm actively avoiding using that word with my friends ever again, no matter how drunk I may get with them.

 

[Creatural]

Right, except that you noted the reason you care about that right to express yourself is that it's how you have fun; if you couldn't express yourself, you wouldn't have as much fun. That is an appeal to emotion.

Its not appeal to emotion when I said that the issue was about censorship and not having fun.

Emotional harm can be as damaging as physical harm.

I disagree.

Your argument doesn't really even apply given that freedom of expression doesn't cover instances that potentially cause harm to others (see also: hate speech, shouting "fire" in a crowded theater, etc.).

Again using examples that don't apply. I'm not saying hate speech or saying something with the intent to physically harm someone.

You seem to think you are in a position in which you need to be convinced you shouldn't be allowed to be a detriment to other people. In reality, the burden here is on you to prove that you should.

No, if your going to try to dictate what I can and can't do, your going to be burden with telling me why I should care what you think.

It's really not that scary, I promise.

That's great, I still don't find it appealing.

What are you even saying?

That I shouldn't be held accountable for the inconceivable possibility that someone might freaking out over an expression I use. Not that confusing.

One thing has been made abundantly clear in this thread: Unexamined privilege is a poison that rots the soul.

You still haven't told me why privilege is a bad thing, but thanks for the silly comment.

Because your privilege lends you the assumption that you having fun at the expense of everyone around you is a-ok. The rest of us just wants video games to be a place for EVERYONE, you want it to be a place for YOU. You are a hindrance and you can't even see it. Privilege.

No, I think it is a place where you and I can express ourselves freely. I have the right to say that I "raped" the last match and you have the right to tell me off and mute me for using the term rape in such a manner.

My what are you even saying wasn't to be taken literally. It was more of a reaction to you being dishonest enough to try and say that you had proved something to me when you've done nothing of the like. And continue to do nothing of the like I might add.

And it's not freaking out, it's not becoming offended, it's being triggered. It's different from everything else and that's why we use a different word for it.

Also, it's not inconceivable, again you have part of this article as documentation of that fact and plenty of places you could be looking for that information. You could also actually read what we've said and realize that it's not inconceivable with that body of information provided to you as well.

 

[Clearing the Eye]

No, I think it is a place where you and I can express ourselves freely. I have the right to say that I "raped" the last match and you have the right to tell me off and mute me for using the term rape in such a manner.

I think some people consider anything they dislike to actually be objectively bad and therefore demand its removal, as if doing so is logical and true. They come at things from the perspective wherein their opinion is correct or "the most correct," rather than seeing issues of conflicting opinions as matters of taste and bias, where nothing is more or less correct and where what an individual feels carries no weight.

We all do it from time to time. Some more than others.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

Okay...I understand that you have the RIGHT to say what you want. That is perfectly fine. What I don't understand is WHY you would WANT to say it. I...I literally cannot comprehend any reasoning behind such callous insulting, especially to other people you do not know.

I guess after saying that I'm "starving" when I really mean that I haven't eaten in a few hours or saying that a test is "killing" me when I really mean that I find a test difficult, I just think that "rape" is just a word like "starving" or "killing". As such, it isn't something to get worked up over.

Maybe I'm too optimistic but I always thought that such words were to be ashamed of, not lauded. I don't think you would just casually say such people to random people off the street, so why do you feel the need to say it over a game? What possible benefit could you gain by doing this? I literally do not know. Please explain. I cannot understand such a lack of empathy or such a desire to insult people you do not know...

Just a form of expression I guess. Also when I was in highschool, the term was used very often when a person did well on a test.

It's not about your right to express yourself. Your right to express yourself ends when you're infringing on someone else's rights to not be grievously emotionally harmed.

Eggshells that I don't have to walk on.

Perhaps you should examine why your enjoyment of a game is so closely entwined with the usage of the word "rape" and other hurtful language.

I have and people are making a big thing out of nothing.

It's not "censorship" it's "Basic Social Skills". Typically people who are not social clods don't go around spouting inflammatory jokes and phrases in public because they don't know you like that. If you want to reserve your right to joke about rape then that's fine, but you should keep it around people you know, like how people like to keep other inflammatory statements around their friends, because you as a group have decided that you're okay with discussing it.

I go back to what I have typed previously, I have a right to say it and people have a right to tell me off and mute me.

Running your mouth in public is not a good practice, and it's gotten a lot of real life people in trouble, even lost their jobs.

I'm not some silly celebrity on twitter, nor do I live in the UK. Thanks for the concern though.

I never thought I'd have to explain "Why you can't say certain things in public".

If you want me to follow your rules when I don't have to then you better explain yourself.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

And it's not freaking out, it's not becoming offended, it's being triggered.

Your arguing over semantics now.

Also, it's not inconceivable, again you have part of this article as documentation of that fact and plenty of places you could be looking for that information. You could also actually read what we've said and realize that it's not inconceivable with that body of information provided to you as well.

Seeing as not everybody is going to read this, it is inconceivable.

No, I think it is a place where you and I can express ourselves freely. I have the right to say that I "raped" the last match and you have the right to tell me off and mute me for using the term rape in such a manner.

I think some people consider anything they dislike to actually be objectively bad and therefore demand its removal, as if doing so is logical and true. They come at things from the perspective wherein their opinion is correct or "the most correct," rather than seeing issues of conflicting opinions as matters of taste and bias, where nothing is more or less correct and where what an individual feels carries no weight.

We all do it from time to time. Some more than others.

...um ok? Just making an observation I take it?

 

[Clearing the Eye]

And it's not freaking out, it's not becoming offended, it's being triggered.

Your arguing over semantics now.

Also, it's not inconceivable, again you have part of this article as documentation of that fact and plenty of places you could be looking for that information. You could also actually read what we've said and realize that it's not inconceivable with that body of information provided to you as well.

Seeing as not everybody is going to read this, it is inconceivable.

No, I think it is a place where you and I can express ourselves freely. I have the right to say that I "raped" the last match and you have the right to tell me off and mute me for using the term rape in such a manner.

I think some people consider anything they dislike to actually be objectively bad and therefore demand its removal, as if doing so is logical and true. They come at things from the perspective wherein their opinion is correct or "the most correct," rather than seeing issues of conflicting opinions as matters of taste and bias, where nothing is more or less correct and where what an individual feels carries no weight.

We all do it from time to time. Some more than others.

...um ok? Just making an observation I take it?

Yea, sorry, lol. Was kind of adding to what you were talking about.

Carry on!

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

And it's not freaking out, it's not becoming offended, it's being triggered.

Your arguing over semantics now.

Also, it's not inconceivable, again you have part of this article as documentation of that fact and plenty of places you could be looking for that information. You could also actually read what we've said and realize that it's not inconceivable with that body of information provided to you as well.

Seeing as not everybody is going to read this, it is inconceivable.

No, I think it is a place where you and I can express ourselves freely. I have the right to say that I "raped" the last match and you have the right to tell me off and mute me for using the term rape in such a manner.

I think some people consider anything they dislike to actually be objectively bad and therefore demand its removal, as if doing so is logical and true. They come at things from the perspective wherein their opinion is correct or "the most correct," rather than seeing issues of conflicting opinions as matters of taste and bias, where nothing is more or less correct and where what an individual feels carries no weight.

We all do it from time to time. Some more than others.

...um ok? Just making an observation I take it?

Yea, sorry, lol. Was kind of adding to what you were talking about.

Carry on!

lol, ok I will. FYI, you made some good points though

 

[Creatural]

And it's not freaking out, it's not becoming offended, it's being triggered.

Your arguing over semantics now.

Also, it's not inconceivable, again you have part of this article as documentation of that fact and plenty of places you could be looking for that information. You could also actually read what we've said and realize that it's not inconceivable with that body of information provided to you as well.

Seeing as not everybody is going to read this, it is inconceivable.

No, I think it is a place where you and I can express ourselves freely. I have the right to say that I "raped" the last match and you have the right to tell me off and mute me for using the term rape in such a manner.

I think some people consider anything they dislike to actually be objectively bad and therefore demand its removal, as if doing so is logical and true. They come at things from the perspective wherein their opinion is correct or "the most correct," rather than seeing issues of conflicting opinions as matters of taste and bias, where nothing is more or less correct and where what an individual feels carries no weight.

We all do it from time to time. Some more than others.

...um ok? Just making an observation I take it?

Yeah, I am just mentioning how you should be using words, is there something wrong with that? Was I arguing over something else in the last part of this? All I saw was me explaining that something wasn't meant to be taken literally as you took it, which I think is understandable to explain, and then me talking to you about words because it's a little weird that you're using them incorrectly when they've been used as they have for a reason. The word trigger is important to this stuff and I don't want you to think it's like other words you've been using alongside it or spread any ignorance about how important it actually is.

I don't see why you'd suddenly think it's unimportant to talk about words when we're talking about how damaging one word can be.

And your second inconceivable comment didn't make sense unless you meant as a joke which didn't come off too well honestly.

 

[Therumancer]

Epic Snips

So... You do realize that you're lumping good feminists in with a bunch of stupid people right?

I mean, I'll grant you that I don't know everyone. I only know a very few people, and I only listen to fewer. But the people I know who are feminists don't have these crappy "Double standards" that you keep talking about.

Because those double standards are stupid. And if a feminist says it's okay for a woman to be raped in a book with fabio on the cover then he or she isn't a real feminist.

He or she is an idiot.

Like it or not feminism today is exactly what I've mentioned. The battle for equality has already been won, now like most civil rights movements that are past their prime it's become about power. Modern feminism is about advantage, masquerading as a demand for a kind of equality that already exists.

Also do not misunderstand the point, the bit about the romance novels isn't so much about feminism, but the human condition. Having an attractive member of the gender your interested in force themselves on you is a common fantasy. Guys have their dominatrix stuff, women have their own versions. The operative term for a positive rape in fantasy is generally "ravished" to make a distinction, but the fundemental act is still the same. The point here being that in fantasy rape is not entirely a bad thing, as long as it's understood to be fantasy. The general distinction is whether the characters involved wind up enjoying themselves. See, in a book with Fabio on the cover the lady being used as a pirate's concubine, or being enslaved in Antonio Banderas' harem (he apparently did a lot of those covers and inspirational artwork early on in his career from some things I've read) the "victim" ultimatly enjoys their plight on some level, and really I have no real issue with that kind of thing. It's important to understand that it's fantasy though, and not confusing it with reality and what rare actually is, is why it requires an adult audience to be able to seperate those things.

The point about feminism is that the arguements are increasingly that women can handle that kind of thing, but men cannot. Your liable to see feminist crusades against garbage in that genere produced for a male audience, or where men dominate women who fall in love with their dominators, but you do not generally see it against the material produced for women. You generally do not see crusades by women against romance novels, yet you will see them against material covering the same grounds produced for a male audience. The idea being that men can't handle such things or should be prohibited from it selectively.

 

[Therumancer]

Your taking a shotgun to the subject in hopes of hitting something. I'll start out in being blunt in saying (as I've said before) that I myself was raped by a gay man when I was six. In my cause though I blocked it out, which doesn't make it any easier when you know it happened.

I disagree with what you have said in the rest of your post regarding feminism, but I'm very sorry about what happened to you. It's a very difficult thing to live with and even more difficult to talk about, and I respect you for being able to speak about it.

I would encourage you to talk to someone about it -- a professional, a family member, someone in the clergy, or even a friend. Believe me, talking about it helps a lot. Turning your back on it and hoping you won't remember doesn't work and often makes things worse. That was definitely the case with me.

Already dealt with, indeed having spoken to people about nightmares and such is one of the big reasons why I know it happened and obtained a lot of the details I have.

My point is simply to say that I empathize with the victims, and have a degree of understanding on the subject from their perspective, while not agreeing with a lot of the political positions and statements being made.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

Yeah, I am just mentioning how you should be using words, is there something wrong with that?

Only when you cross the line from informing me, to telling me how to behave.

And your second inconceivable comment didn't make sense unless you meant as a joke which didn't come off too well honestly.

Its not a joke, not everybody will see this article. Hence its inconceivable for a person to know about how others will react.

Ah, every discussion about "be a decent person" obviously has people like Helmholtz Watson, you who came into the discussion shrieking about "censorship" and are extremely angry that people judge you for your crappy behavior.

Wrong, I came into this discussion stating that people are making a big thing out of nothing over the use of the word "rape".

It's not censorship to ask you to behave like a decent human being.

Your right, but it is censorship when you don't just ask, but start telling me how I should behave

Communities still can and will. That's not censorship. That's telling you to be a decent human being for a change.[/qoute] They can try to dictate my behavior on other medias, but I don't have to comply.

I have and people are making a big thing out of nothing.

You are, yes, I agree entirely, you are blowing this completely out of proportion by dragging "censorship" and "free speech" into it without understand what you are even talking about.

Stop crying emo tears about being asked to behave like a decent person.

Cute, taking things out of context is fun, huh?

 

[Clearing the Eye]

And it's not freaking out, it's not becoming offended, it's being triggered.

Your arguing over semantics now.

Also, it's not inconceivable, again you have part of this article as documentation of that fact and plenty of places you could be looking for that information. You could also actually read what we've said and realize that it's not inconceivable with that body of information provided to you as well.

Seeing as not everybody is going to read this, it is inconceivable.

No, I think it is a place where you and I can express ourselves freely. I have the right to say that I "raped" the last match and you have the right to tell me off and mute me for using the term rape in such a manner.

I think some people consider anything they dislike to actually be objectively bad and therefore demand its removal, as if doing so is logical and true. They come at things from the perspective wherein their opinion is correct or "the most correct," rather than seeing issues of conflicting opinions as matters of taste and bias, where nothing is more or less correct and where what an individual feels carries no weight.

We all do it from time to time. Some more than others.

...um ok? Just making an observation I take it?

Yea, sorry, lol. Was kind of adding to what you were talking about.

Carry on!

lol, ok I will. FYI, you made some good points though

Why thank you.

I argue against the use of certain words from time to time. Like the other day, someone used ****** to describe a party they disliked. As if being a "******" was something worthy of insult. I commented and more or less told them not to use the word in such a manor in future, should they want people to care what you have to say, reminding him how offensive the phrase can be to others. I actively tried to "prove" they were wrong in using the word.

A few people agreed with me and a few bashed me, calling me overly sensitive. Long story short, I think we all let our bias override our logic sometimes. While calling someone out and/or ignoring them is perhaps the best option, it can be hard not to forget just what opinions are and how little personal taste weighs when it comes to any form of true right and wrong, and to argue from a position you personally consider to be the high ground.

It's all well and good for some people here to demand others discontinue the use of rape to describe a crushing victory. To a certain degree I can empathize--after all, what harm is there in someone not using a word that upsets some people? But at the end of the day, I must remember: we're all equal and no one has to stop doing something they want because another doesn't want to hear it. Why should person A change their language to suit person B? Or C, D, E, F and G?

If we argue against things we dislike, purely because we dislike them, we don't have a leg to stand on. After all, no one is more or less important than anyone else in a free country.

 

[John Funk]

Hot damn, there is a lot of talk about feminism and what is and isn't feminist lately.

My empathy for the cause has shrunk considerably.

EDIT: derp, wrong word -_-

That has what to do with this article?

 

[Clearing the Eye]

Hot damn, there is a lot of talk about feminism and what is and isn't feminist lately.

My empathy for the cause has shrunk considerably.

EDIT: derp, wrong word -_-

That has what to do with this article?

Pardon? What doesn't my opinion have to do with the article would perhaps be a more answerable question.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

And it's not freaking out, it's not becoming offended, it's being triggered.

Your arguing over semantics now.

Also, it's not inconceivable, again you have part of this article as documentation of that fact and plenty of places you could be looking for that information. You could also actually read what we've said and realize that it's not inconceivable with that body of information provided to you as well.

Seeing as not everybody is going to read this, it is inconceivable.

No, I think it is a place where you and I can express ourselves freely. I have the right to say that I "raped" the last match and you have the right to tell me off and mute me for using the term rape in such a manner.

I think some people consider anything they dislike to actually be objectively bad and therefore demand its removal, as if doing so is logical and true. They come at things from the perspective wherein their opinion is correct or "the most correct," rather than seeing issues of conflicting opinions as matters of taste and bias, where nothing is more or less correct and where what an individual feels carries no weight.

We all do it from time to time. Some more than others.

...um ok? Just making an observation I take it?

Yea, sorry, lol. Was kind of adding to what you were talking about.

Carry on!

lol, ok I will. FYI, you made some good points though

Why thank you.

I argue against the use of certain words from time to time. Like the other day, someone used ****** to describe a party they disliked. As if being a "******" was something worthy of insult. I commented and more or less told them not to use the word in such a manor in future, should they want people to care what you have to say, reminding him how offensive the phrase can be to others. I actively tried to "prove" they were wrong in using the word.

A few people agreed with me and a few bashed me, calling me overly sensitive. Long story short, I think we all let our bias override our logic sometimes. While calling someone out and/or ignoring them is perhaps the best option, it can be hard not to forget just what opinions are and how little personal taste weighs when it comes to any form of true right and wrong, and to argue from a position you personally consider to be the high ground.

It's all well and good for some people here to demand others discontinue the use of rape to describe a crushing victory. To a certain degree I can empathize--after all, what harm is there in someone not using a word that upsets some people? But at the end of the day, I must remember: we're all equal and no one has to stop doing something they want because another doesn't want to hear it. Why should person A change their language to suit person B? Or C, D, E, F and G?

If we argue against things we dislike, purely because we dislike them, we don't have a leg to stand on. After all, no one is more or less important than anyone else in a free country.

^^^^^This right here^^^^^ ladies and gentlemen is something that everybody should look at! Truer words have not been said in this thread.

 

[Creatural]

Yeah, I am just mentioning how you should be using words, is there something wrong with that?

Only when you cross the line from informing me, to telling me how to behave.

And your second inconceivable comment didn't make sense unless you meant as a joke which didn't come off too well honestly.

Its not a joke, not everybody will see this article. Hence its inconceivable for a person to know about how others will react.

Ah, every discussion about "be a decent person" obviously has people like Helmholtz Watson, you who came into the discussion shrieking about "censorship" and are extremely angry that people judge you for your crappy behavior.

Wrong, I came into this discussion stating that people are making a big thing out of nothing over the use of the word "rape".

It's not censorship to ask you to behave like a decent human being.

Your right, but it is censorship when you don't just ask, but start telling me how I should behave

Communities still can and will. That's not censorship. That's telling you to be a decent human being for a change.[/qoute] They can try to dictate my behavior on other medias, but I don't have to comply.

I have and people are making a big thing out of nothing.

You are, yes, I agree entirely, you are blowing this completely out of proportion by dragging "censorship" and "free speech" into it without understand what you are even talking about.

Stop crying emo tears about being asked to behave like a decent person.

Cute, taking things out of context is fun, huh?

No, it still doesn't make sense to say inconceivable in that context. The inconceivable of yours that I originally addressed was saying that it's inconceivable for someone to be hurt by the mention of rape. This article is proof that someone can be hurt by a mention of rape. That inconceivable isn't an addressal of something else.

And should in this case isn't a grounded thing set in stone, it's a mention of how words should be used, like if you want to draw something you should actually draw on something. Should doesn't always literally mean YOU WILL DO AS I WILL YOU TO or anything so dramatic as that. It can indicate a desirable state, a hope for something. I'm not commanding you to behave in a certain way when I say should.

 

[xaszatm]

Okay...I understand that you have the RIGHT to say what you want. That is perfectly fine. What I don't understand is WHY you would WANT to say it. I...I literally cannot comprehend any reasoning behind such callous insulting, especially to other people you do not know.

I guess after saying that I'm "starving" when I really mean that I haven't eaten in a few hours or saying that a test is "killing" me when I really mean that I find a test difficult, I just think that "rape" is just a word like "starving" or "killing". As such, it isn't something to get worked up over.

Maybe I'm too optimistic but I always thought that such words were to be ashamed of, not lauded. I don't think you would just casually say such people to random people off the street, so why do you feel the need to say it over a game? What possible benefit could you gain by doing this? I literally do not know. Please explain. I cannot understand such a lack of empathy or such a desire to insult people you do not know...

Just a form of expression I guess. Also when I was in highschool, the term was used very often when a person did well on a test.

Okay...I'm sorry if I sound really naive for a pre-med student (too late), but in what environment would the word "rape" be used so casually. Clearly you and I have different meanings of the word, but it baffles me that there ARE different meaning of the word that are COMPLETELY different from its standard definition.

Again, I am not saying you do not have the right to say it. I am just confused. Hurrah for living under a rock...

EDIT: Also, "starving" = "rape"? ...Really?

 

[John Funk]

Hot damn, there is a lot of talk about feminism and what is and isn't feminist lately.

My empathy for the cause has shrunk considerably.

EDIT: derp, wrong word -_-

That has what to do with this article?

Pardon? What doesn't my opinion have to do with the article would perhaps be a more answerable question.

I was referring to feminism. This article was explicitly not feminist, unless you consider the radical idea that we should be mindful to not further hurt people who have been through an unspeakable act all that feminist.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

I'm not commanding you to behave in a certain way when I say should.

Great, then you and I don't have an issue. As long as your not trying to dictate my behavior, you and I have no problem.

Okay...I'm sorry if I sound really naive for a pre-med student (too late), but in what environment would the word "rape" be used so casually. Clearly you and I have different meanings of the word, but it baffles me that there ARE different meaning of the word that are COMPLETELY different from its standard definition.

The word could be used to emphasis that you just did really well on a test("I just raped that test") or that you did really well in a multiplayer game("I just raped that last match in COD")

EDIT: Also, "starving" = "rape"? ...Really?

Again, I'm just demonstrating how some words are already used and nobody seems to care, yet the word rape is supposed to be treated special.

 

[SL33TBL1ND]

Probably the most powerful and important article I've ever read on this site. We applaud you for your courage in bringing back those memories to help others understand.

I guess what I'm trying to say is: You, sir, are a Top Man.