The R Word

[ZippyDSMlee]

*lurk lurk lurk* Ok I bite...... how many traumatizing trigger words are going to have to be removed from common use before humanity realizes that was never the problem to begin with.

This stuff(I go beyond rape to anything else that might cause a break down or hurt feelings) is situational and dependent upon the individual traumatized, IE there are to many random factors for humans to up and change to say other wise is rather disingenuous....

Well, first of all... Do we really, really need words like rape, fag, ****** and so on to make an internet discussion worth having? Sure, they're terms and words, too, but... They're sensitive for a reason.

I do see your point, however. Many different words can be that one trigger that catalysts such a reaction. Sometimes, you simply couldn't possibly know, if it's a completly regular word, like attic. However, some words are more commonly a catalyst than others, and a carelessly tossed "rape" is one of those who are fairly likely to be that.
Again, I don't think it should be entirely removed from our vocabulary. The word itself aren't very likely to cause a flashback or anxiety. It's about the context.

Like if a player say "Ha! I raped you, noob!" after beating them at some moment in a game. It's when rape is used in that manner that it becomes a problem, like a very careless term of domination. It's -that- behaviour that just isn't very kind, and it's not a difficult task to simply choose a less loaded term.

What I am getting at is that humanity is incapable of doing anything different as we as a people are as mature as our most immature.

And while "we" revel in the usage of bad/sick/sad slang words there will always be other words to replace them in the common vernacular, at least until we no longer have no need for uncouth slang words.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

It's not a fallacious appeal to emotion. It's an extremely simple point. Why do you need to use this word? What do you actually gain in comparison to what he and similar people actually lose? Period.

What you said before was an appeal to emotion. However now that you have asked a question that doesn't appeal to emotion, I'll answer it. I suppose I gain the ability to freely express myself regardless of how other people might feel about it.

Typical ≠ never used. Learn to read what I've written in response to you or don't bother making a response at all.

You don't like it? Don't respond.

And okay, here we go, if you want to look at why you shouldn't make rape jokes to strangers without using emotions it's very simple. It can trigger them. Triggers can make people stop processing things well and they won't make logical decisions. Triggers can make people so unproductive that they can do none of the tasks that their society needs them to complete. Triggers can also make some people violent and physically harm other people in society.

Then those people should remove themselves from situations where they can harm people. Also, it isn't my job to make sure that I don't offend people on the internet because they might be triggered by anything I say.

I would argue though that as this is a discussion about people using the word rape in an emotional way to begin with, a joke which is inherently about emotions (it's about making you feel elated after all if a joke's "good") is what we're discussing. We're discussing the way people use rape in a kind of joking or victorious way in games. The victorious expression is also about emotion as it's expressing a feeling of triumph.

There is no way this argument isn't about emotion. If your argument is that emotions shouldn't come in to play here that won't make sense since jokes and victory expression are inherently emotional things and taking away emotion from this does no one any good. It defeats the purpose of these things entirely.

Prove to me how a joke isn't about emotion (which includes relieving stress, an emotion, and bringing happiness, an emotion) or how a victory cry isn't filled with emotion and we can argue about how neither of them should be treated emotionally.

I don't have to prove anything. However if your going to make an argument that you want me to consider, you are going to have to avoid logic fallacies like appealing to emotion.

Also, an emotional fallacy is a fallacy wherein I'd appeal to your emotions. I didn't. I gave you information on how most other people feel, based on statistics that I remember and personal experience, that doesn't automatically mean I'm appealing to your emotions. I'm not trying to make you cry. I'm not trying to make you feel bad. I'm just telling you how some people have felt. Don't use emotional fallacy when you don't know what it means.

You seem to be attempting to make me feel sorry for people and that pitty should be a reason why I shouldn't say the word rape. That is an appeal to emotion. Otherwise why tell me what other people think? Why should I do something just because other people are doing it?

Furthermore, if we're going to argue about emotions here, why do you want to use the word rape? Does it make you feel good? Do you like that word? What reason is there for you to use it other than an emotional attachment to it? It's just a word after all, and it doesn't even accurately describe what you're doing when you win a game against someone, so why use it?

I didn't say that people shouldn't use emotion when playing a game, just that you shouldn't use appeal to emotion fallacies when making an argument.

 

[Muspelheim]

What I am getting at is that humanity is incapable of doing anything different as we as a people are as mature as our most immature.

And while "we" revel in the usage of bad/sick/sad slang words there will always be other words to replace them in the common vernacular, at least until we no longer have need uncouth slang words.

The thing is, some people will be immature and keep using rape like a throwaway slur whatever happens, because of immaturity or operating on some weird principle system that trumps basic civility. However, I'm convinced that most people that does use rape in a needless way don't mean any harm, and simply haven't thought of it that way. They're just regular, good people who don't really mean to cause any distress or something, they just aren't aware of it. And I'm also convinced is that most people stop doing it once they've gotten a broader perspective of it. It's all about understanding, and articles and discussions like this spreads the awareness, and helps towards at least diminishing the careless use of that word, which honestly is what matters.

I try to live in hope, and I do think we can fix this. Most people mean no harm, and if they just see it from a new perspective, they will understand which words could be a regular It's no fun anymore-zone for most.

 

[MatsVS]

I didn't say that people shouldn't use emotion when playing a game, just that you shouldn't use appeal to emotion fallacies when making an argument.

The entire point is that careless usage of the word can cause an extreme emotional response. Ergo, appeals to emotion is entirely valid. I am sorry that you have none.

 

[PortalThinker113]

I just want to express my sincere and heartfelt thanks to the author of this article. This piece was incredible and heart-wrenching, and as someone who has never been raped or dealt with trauma like that, seeing someone bare their emotions and soul like that was eye-opening, to say the least. I know that I can never understand what you've been through or how you feel, and that I am in no way qualified to discuss the subject of rape, but now I feel like I can understand at least a little better. This article was incredibly brave of you, and my hat is permanently off to you. My prayers, hugs, and best wishes go out to you.

Also, you should definitely think about writing more- this piece was very well-written in general.

As far as the discussion of the usage of the term "rape" and its potential harm in society, I'm going to echo what a few other people above me have said. Why? Why does the ability to use the word "rape" on Xbox Live matter to you so much? Is it that hard for one to just censor oneself a wee bit so that someone, somewhere has a better day than he or she would have otherwise? I'm not saying that everyone has to be paralyzed with fear of saying anything offensive all the time, but what positives do you even get out of using that word carelessly all the time? You don't have to engage in the second of mental effort that it would take to choose a different word? You can easily engage in proper amounts of trash talk while still being respectful and aware of the feelings of others. It is certainly not impossible, and it's not even that hard in the grand scheme of things. Just take a second to change a word, and you could be saving another human being a lot of hardship and pain.

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

What I am getting at is that humanity is incapable of doing anything different as we as a people are as mature as our most immature.

And while "we" revel in the usage of bad/sick/sad slang words there will always be other words to replace them in the common vernacular, at least until we no longer have need uncouth slang words.

The thing is, some people will be immature and keep using rape like a throwaway slur whatever happens, because of immaturity or operating on some weird principle system that trumps basic civility. However, I'm convinced that most people that does use rape in a needless way don't mean any harm, and simply haven't thought of it that way. They're just regular, good people who don't really mean to cause any distress or something, they just aren't aware of it. And I'm also convinced is that most people stop doing it once they've gotten a broader perspective of it. It's all about understanding, and articles and discussions like this spreads the awareness, and helps towards at least diminishing the careless use of that word, which honestly is what matters.

I try to live in hope, and I do think we can fix this. Most people mean no harm, and if they just see it from a new perspective, they will understand which words could be a regular It's no fun anymore-zone for most.

Imma glass is half empty siting on the sun soon to join the rest of humanity type of guy. Sadly...LOL

 

[ischmalud]

that has to be hands down the saddest and most brutally honest thing ive read on this site sofar. granted Ive only been arround for a year or so but i bet id would hold true if id been here from the start.
now i am not even going to tough th xbla crap...let me put it this way i get posts banned for being offensive at times and i refuse to buy an xbox simple because of the online service althougth i know its a great console. nuff said
I thought a little about your last couple of paragraphs and realised I actually met the people who get that offensive in online games, here in australia we have internet gaming cafes all over the place and if u just sit in there and listen to the stuff kids playing in there say it makes you wanna weeping - emotional baggage or none and sadly enough it feels like they really want to hurt the people they are shouting at, it has nothing to do with sportsmanship, who knows they might have issues of their own.
Personally i take it as a sign that deep down humans are just that unfriendly and giving them the mask of the internet they will abuse the living hell out of anyone for any reason. you probably listened to this weeks podcast but susan gets very worked up about some of those things too, and i think it relates to some degree. As soon as you reintroduce social standarts like - having to put your real name - on the abuse that you throw at another person people (online at least) back off. sorry if i went off on a tangent of my own -
overall thanks for your article

 

[Jeff Dunn]

Great article. To people arguing that this is somehow restricting free speech, it's really not. You're free to say whatever you want, especially within the comfort of people who you know aren't offended by dumb language, but why even risk hurting someone, unintentional or not? You don't use "fag" or "******" in public (if you feel uncomfortable reading that, good), so why use "rape" if it carries a similar potential for harm? And don't say humans are incapable of always being mature, there's no reason to give up on decency, even if it's an unlikely proposition.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

I didn't say that people shouldn't use emotion when playing a game, just that you shouldn't use appeal to emotion fallacies when making an argument.

The entire point is that careless usage of the word can cause an extreme emotional response. Ergo, appeals to emotion is entirely valid. I am sorry that you have none.

Then people should avoid situations that can trigger such responses and no I don't have to put up with appeals to emotion.

 

[MatsVS]

I didn't say that people shouldn't use emotion when playing a game, just that you shouldn't use appeal to emotion fallacies when making an argument.

The entire point is that careless usage of the word can cause an extreme emotional response. Ergo, appeals to emotion is entirely valid. I am sorry that you have none.

Then people should avoid situations that can trigger such responses and no I don't have to put up with appeals to emotion.

So basically your right to be an asshole is more important than the right of a trauma victim to use a product he or she has paid money for without unduly suffering? Privilege much?

 

[Evil Alpaca]

First, I want to thank the author of this peace. It takes courage to face this issue and even more to talk about it publicly.

it isn't my job to make sure that I don't offend people on the internet because they might be triggered by anything I say.

Its not your job, its common courtesy.

The author states how that sort of language can trigger emotional flashbacks and depression. It saps the fun from the individual and makes it hard for them to enjoy any interaction with the game or event. All you have to ask yourself is do you think saying obvious trigger words are worth the risk of completely ruining someone's fun.

 

[Creatural]

I didn't say that people shouldn't use emotion when playing a game, just that you shouldn't use appeal to emotion fallacies when making an argument.

The entire point is that careless usage of the word can cause an extreme emotional response. Ergo, appeals to emotion is entirely valid. I am sorry that you have none.

Then people should avoid situations that can trigger such responses and no I don't have to put up with appeals to emotion.

People aren't psychic and cannot know which gamers are going to say rape to them beforehand. How do you propose they avoid these situations if they can't know before the fact? Never play games again? Never get involved in media at all perhaps?

That's extreme and unnecessary, especially when attachment to the word rape in the way that's used offensively can be nothing but an emotional one and makes no sense to stick to. These are all emotional responses, including the desire to keep using the word rape as it isn't used for accuracy, so whether you like it or not all sides are essentially talking about emotions here.

You're not in an argument without emotions involved everywhere. Emotional appeals in emotional arguments are valid too. You really need to study argument bases too if you want to use fallacies as some fallacies do not apply depending on what type of argument you're having.

 

[Shjade]

snip

Your example doesn't hold up. A more appropriate example would be I have a license to go hunting that there are animal rights activist that are offended by my activity. They have a right to be offended, but it doesn't stop me from being allowed to hunt.

Incorrect. You referred to a right to play a game (the gun), not the service (hunting).

If you want to talk about the service, you're still wrong: animal rights activists aren't hunting with you. A more accurate example would be that you have a license to go hunting, but you decide to shoot the other hunters out there with you because it's more fun than limiting yourself to shooting the animals you bought the license to hunt.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

So basically your right to be an asshole is more important than the right of a trauma victim to use a product he or she has paid money for without unduly suffering? Privilege much?

I have every right to say what I like and they have every right to chew me out and mute me. As for your privilege comment, whats wrong with having privilege?

Its not your job, its common courtesy.

The author states how that sort of language can trigger emotional flashbacks and depression. It saps the fun from the individual and makes it hard for them to enjoy any interaction with the game or event. All you have to ask yourself is do you think saying obvious trigger words are worth the risk of completely ruining someone's fun.

Again, I have the right to say such words and other people have the right to tell me off and mute me.

People aren't psychic and cannot know which gamers are going to say rape to them beforehand. How do you propose they avoid these situations if they can't know before the fact? Never play games again? Never get involved in media at all perhaps?

What? My entire argument is that people should be allowed to say what they want and that people who don't like it should just tell them off and mute them.

so whether you like it or not all sides are essentially talking about emotions here.

Great, but if your going to try to convince me to not use the word, then your going to have to do so without using appealing to emotion fallacies.

 

[Creatural]

Typical ≠ never used. Learn to read what I've written in response to you or don't bother making a response at all.

You don't like it? Don't respond.

THAT'S a fallacy, that is the thing you've been trying to claim we've all been doing all along. You are not addressing the actual arguments presented to you anymore. You are not using logic there, but it's understandable if you're finally using emotion in an argument about emotions.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

snip

Your example doesn't hold up. A more appropriate example would be I have a license to go hunting that there are animal rights activist that are offended by my activity. They have a right to be offended, but it doesn't stop me from being allowed to hunt.

Incorrect. You referred to a right to play a game (the gun), not the service (hunting).

If you want to talk about the service, you're still wrong: animal rights activists aren't hunting with you. A more accurate example would be that you have a license to go hunting, but you decide to shoot the other hunters out there with you because it's more fun than limiting yourself to shooting the animals you bought the license to hunt.

No, no players are physically dieing from me saying the word "rape", so again your example fails.

 

[Creatural]

So basically your right to be an asshole is more important than the right of a trauma victim to use a product he or she has paid money for without unduly suffering? Privilege much?

I have every right to say what I like and they have every right to chew me out and mute me. As for your privilege comment, whats wrong with having privilege?

Its not your job, its common courtesy.

The author states how that sort of language can trigger emotional flashbacks and depression. It saps the fun from the individual and makes it hard for them to enjoy any interaction with the game or event. All you have to ask yourself is do you think saying obvious trigger words are worth the risk of completely ruining someone's fun.

Again, I have the right to say such words and other people have the right to tell me off and mute me.

People aren't psychic and cannot know which gamers are going to say rape to them beforehand. How do you propose they avoid these situations if they can't know before the fact? Never play games again? Never get involved in media at all perhaps?

What? My entire argument is that people should be allowed to say what they want and that people who don't like it should just tell them off and mute them.

so whether you like it or not all sides are essentially talking about emotions here.

Great, but if your going to try to convince me to not use the word, then your going to have to do so without using appealing to emotion fallacies.

I did, you ignored that.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

Typical ≠ never used. Learn to read what I've written in response to you or don't bother making a response at all.

You don't like it? Don't respond.

THAT'S a fallacy, that is the thing you've been trying to claim we've all been doing all along. You are not addressing the actual arguments presented to you anymore. You are not using logic there, but it's understandable if you're finally using emotion in an argument about emotions.

You would be right if that was all I typed when I responded, but it wasn't. I elaborated on what I had to say. Try again.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

I did, you ignored that.

No I didn't, you just told me about the feeling of others and attempted to make me feel bad about it. Try again.

 

[Shjade]

snip

Your example doesn't hold up. A more appropriate example would be I have a license to go hunting that there are animal rights activist that are offended by my activity. They have a right to be offended, but it doesn't stop me from being allowed to hunt.

Incorrect. You referred to a right to play a game (the gun), not the service (hunting).

If you want to talk about the service, you're still wrong: animal rights activists aren't hunting with you. A more accurate example would be that you have a license to go hunting, but you decide to shoot the other hunters out there with you because it's more fun than limiting yourself to shooting the animals you bought the license to hunt.

No, no players are physically dieing from me saying the word "rape", so again your example fails.

I never claimed you were shooting them to death, so again your reading comprehension fails. You are causing harm to other people via misuse of this word in a virtual "hunting" space in a manner comparable to harm you would do to other people via misuse of your firearm in a real hunting space. If you truly fail to understand the entire point of metaphoric explanation (i.e. comparisons that are not literally the same in order to convey a point), you should probably examine the concept before portraying yourself as a person who comprehends debate structure.

As an aside, I find it rather funny that you're throwing around "appeal to emotion" so often as if you think it will lend some kind of additional weight or intellectual value to your own position. The reason I find this funny is that your position is, itself, based on emotional reasoning. Specifically, you choose not to limit your freedom of expression because "it isn't fun." Not only an emotional (and selfish) reason, but an incredibly shallow emotion at that.

Your hypocrisy amuses me.