The sarcasm/BDSM discussion thread!

[Lilani]

Aaaaanywho, The topic I want to discuss is: The whole BDSM fetishism type thing. I've heard a lot about a book called 50 shades of gray, a book I am inherently terrified of reading because it started life as a twilight fan-fiction. Buuut, the content of this book is apparently largely sado-masochistic pornography, and, because my brain works in weird ways, It led me to question whether you can truly say the BDSM fetish is sexist or wrong in some other way, considering the fact it requires a lot of mutual trust and co-operation, and that as some people have claimed otherwise, the man is not always dominant.

However, a lot of statements claim that these sorts of actions are inherently sexist towards women, often objectifying them as toys or slaves to a mans whims or desires. But, Even in these situations where the women act submissively, consenting adults usually have to put a lot of trust in their partner to not hurt them too badly, or to any degree that takes away the enjoyment of the experience, and, everything is set in place by choice. So whilst you may not be into that sort of "exchange", Is it neccesarily a bad thing? It almost seems that these exchanges require a deeper and more trustibg relationship from the parties, due to the nature of being immobilised in such a way that your safety is completly in your partners hands. It's interesting to think about, in a kind of "Why the damn hell has this thought just popped into my head" kind of way. So yeah, discuss.

I think BSDM doesn't belong in the discussion of sexism, because BSDM and fetishes in general are very personal things, and voluntary as to how you choose to satisfy that fetish. Sexism, however, is not the choice of the victim and is only personal in the sense of somebody taking a broad feeling about a group and applying it as a personal insult to you.

There are lots of ways to "do" BSDM, as it were (maledom, femdom, lesbian, gay, group, etc.), and people are interested in it for a variety of reasons. But again, because they pursue it of their own volition, it has and should never have any bearing on the discussion of sexism in gaming and society. It's personal fantasy, nothing more.

 

[Blunderboy]

I like the fem-dom kind of BDSM roleplay, personally. I don't like the male dominant version because I dislike men having any power.

I can't say I'm surprised.

OT - I've never been really into the BDSM side of things, and 50 Shades of Grey is total twaddle.

I don't think anyone would ask you to, so don't fret it.

That seems a little unnecessary, aggressive and personal.

 

[Mr_Spanky]

Bottom line is that whether you think that 50 shades of shite is sexist or not you shouldnt take it to be part of reality. Its fiction. Its certainly possible to see given the reinforcing of gender stereotypes blah that 50SoS is a sexist book but thats whatever.

Ive read plenty of books where the main characters are not how *I* would choose to be and so applying this to it isnt very logical.

Dexter perhaps being a very good case in point. I disapprove of vigilantism and murder in general. But watching a show where the "good" guy always gets the "bad" guy gets his karmic reward is fun. But if someone told me they wanted to emulate the man IRL id call the police and the people with the padded cells ASAP.

As far as BDSM goes its fine. I find it odd that people can have truly loving relationships where there is such a large difference with the power that one holds over the other - but thats perhaps just because I dont understand it.

Particularly ive never understood how the causing of physical pain (and im not talking about a quick spanking on the bum) can be in any way a part of a functional, real world type of relationship.

In terms of whats actually wrong with it being between two consenting adults etc though? As long as the power games dont get so distorted that the boundaries of consent become blurred and one is essentially "forcing" the other as part of the power play then nothing at all.

 

[Mr F.]

Hmmm.

How about this?

Something can be sexist in theory but not in reality. If an academic gets their teeth into BDSM then yeah, they can show how it plays on male power fantasys and shit like that. But in many cases, the reality is different. It can start as an inherently sexist idea and become something totally new but the sexism is there at the start.

Then again...

Considering you can argue that all heterosexual sex is rape and sexist, well, Look guys (And gals)...

Theory and reality.

Are two separate entities.

We can either talk about this kind of stuff as adults or you can fuck off.

 

[Blunderboy]

I like the fem-dom kind of BDSM roleplay, personally. I don't like the male dominant version because I dislike men having any power.

Are you serious?

The more you post the less I can take you seriously. "Feminism is a celebration of women, that's why I hate men".

Guuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrrrl, sort yourself out. Mmmm hmmm

Oh no you didn't...

 

[Tsukuyomi]

As I understand it 50 Shades does NOT pose a very good view on BDSM and I've long since wondered what those actively in the lifestyle think of it. Although I'd imagine it's a mixture of hate and pity.

I've also read that not every person involved in the lifestyle is comfortable with that level of control. One Male Submissive wrote into a message-board about the topic stating that while reading some of the more popular books on the subject, one female dom author stated fairly explicitly that when you control a man you're not in complete and proper control of him until you control his finances. That idea scared this particular sub and hell, it'd scare me too.

The entire process beyond some extra spice in the bedroom, actual slaves and masters, seems so enormously complicated mentally that if I were to meet any pair that pulled it off successfully without lasting psychological issues, I would want to shake their hands. It seems like if done improperly, if you mess up even the tiniest thing at the wrong time, the consequences could be terrible and possibly ruin the relationship. I remember reading a description that stated that the first few months of such a relationship are terrible for the submissive in that it FORCES them to kill their ego. You are literally little more than furniture and are expected to act as such. You live FOR your Master and you live to serve. Just the act of service should bring you the greatest joy. Just them looking your way, let alone even acknowledging your presence should bring a smile to your face. Complete and total dependance on another person.

Naturally there's different layers and things, and I've only ever skimmed the surface in terms of reading about it and what it's like. Some of it is interesting, some of it is downright terrifying. But I think there's also parts of it that have value to people beyond that particular lifestyle. For example:

http://collar6.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=89&sid=f69ef4e8612a1576b974012d2bf6596c

The topic is a rather long posting about the primary difference between a Man and a Master. While the traits that it says a Master should have are nothing new, it's interesting and I for one think it's a worthwhile philosophy for anyone trying to improve themselves. It may boil down to some simple and obvious points, and it does get a bit strange at times, but if nothing else it's still an interesting read.

Ultimately I don't think BDSM is a good lifestyle for most people. Imagining myself in either position I suspect I'd do poorly in it. Parts and pieces are certainly useful and interesting in order to spice up one's sex-life, but the community itself seems very much about understanding, safety, and consent. You have to be a thousand times sure you're ready for it before you even begin to give it a try.