The sarcasm/BDSM discussion thread!
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As I understand it 50 Shades does NOT pose a very good view on BDSM and I've long since wondered what those actively in the lifestyle think of it. Although I'd imagine it's a mixture of hate and pity.
I've also read that not every person involved in the lifestyle is comfortable with that level of control. One Male Submissive wrote into a message-board about the topic stating that while reading some of the more popular books on the subject, one female dom author stated fairly explicitly that when you control a man you're not in complete and proper control of him until you control his finances. That idea scared this particular sub and hell, it'd scare me too.
The entire process beyond some extra spice in the bedroom, actual slaves and masters, seems so enormously complicated mentally that if I were to meet any pair that pulled it off successfully without lasting psychological issues, I would want to shake their hands. It seems like if done improperly, if you mess up even the tiniest thing at the wrong time, the consequences could be terrible and possibly ruin the relationship. I remember reading a description that stated that the first few months of such a relationship are terrible for the submissive in that it FORCES them to kill their ego. You are literally little more than furniture and are expected to act as such. You live FOR your Master and you live to serve. Just the act of service should bring you the greatest joy. Just them looking your way, let alone even acknowledging your presence should bring a smile to your face. Complete and total dependance on another person.
Naturally there's different layers and things, and I've only ever skimmed the surface in terms of reading about it and what it's like. Some of it is interesting, some of it is downright terrifying. But I think there's also parts of it that have value to people beyond that particular lifestyle. For example:
http://collar6.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=89&sid=f69ef4e8612a1576b974012d2bf6596c
The topic is a rather long posting about the primary difference between a Man and a Master. While the traits that it says a Master should have are nothing new, it's interesting and I for one think it's a worthwhile philosophy for anyone trying to improve themselves. It may boil down to some simple and obvious points, and it does get a bit strange at times, but if nothing else it's still an interesting read.
Ultimately I don't think BDSM is a good lifestyle for most people. Imagining myself in either position I suspect I'd do poorly in it. Parts and pieces are certainly useful and interesting in order to spice up one's sex-life, but the community itself seems very much about understanding, safety, and consent. You have to be a thousand times sure you're ready for it before you even begin to give it a try.
I've also read that not every person involved in the lifestyle is comfortable with that level of control. One Male Submissive wrote into a message-board about the topic stating that while reading some of the more popular books on the subject, one female dom author stated fairly explicitly that when you control a man you're not in complete and proper control of him until you control his finances. That idea scared this particular sub and hell, it'd scare me too.
The entire process beyond some extra spice in the bedroom, actual slaves and masters, seems so enormously complicated mentally that if I were to meet any pair that pulled it off successfully without lasting psychological issues, I would want to shake their hands. It seems like if done improperly, if you mess up even the tiniest thing at the wrong time, the consequences could be terrible and possibly ruin the relationship. I remember reading a description that stated that the first few months of such a relationship are terrible for the submissive in that it FORCES them to kill their ego. You are literally little more than furniture and are expected to act as such. You live FOR your Master and you live to serve. Just the act of service should bring you the greatest joy. Just them looking your way, let alone even acknowledging your presence should bring a smile to your face. Complete and total dependance on another person.
Naturally there's different layers and things, and I've only ever skimmed the surface in terms of reading about it and what it's like. Some of it is interesting, some of it is downright terrifying. But I think there's also parts of it that have value to people beyond that particular lifestyle. For example:
http://collar6.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=89&sid=f69ef4e8612a1576b974012d2bf6596c
The topic is a rather long posting about the primary difference between a Man and a Master. While the traits that it says a Master should have are nothing new, it's interesting and I for one think it's a worthwhile philosophy for anyone trying to improve themselves. It may boil down to some simple and obvious points, and it does get a bit strange at times, but if nothing else it's still an interesting read.
Ultimately I don't think BDSM is a good lifestyle for most people. Imagining myself in either position I suspect I'd do poorly in it. Parts and pieces are certainly useful and interesting in order to spice up one's sex-life, but the community itself seems very much about understanding, safety, and consent. You have to be a thousand times sure you're ready for it before you even begin to give it a try.
Jesus Christ a BDSM thread, it's like The Escapist is becoming some kind of sexual deviance discussion board.
What exactly where the benefits of pub club again?
BDSM is about trust by two people to hand over control to their partner in order to play out power fantasies.
It's not sexist and you shouldn't think that way, it's agreed upon and doesn't infringe upon anyone's gender and day to day roles in society.
What exactly where the benefits of pub club again?
BDSM is about trust by two people to hand over control to their partner in order to play out power fantasies.
It's not sexist and you shouldn't think that way, it's agreed upon and doesn't infringe upon anyone's gender and day to day roles in society.
Trezu said:i much rather read 50 shades of Greyskull(see what i did there)
also i haven't read the book so i can't say my direct opinion but from what people have said it's total bullshit
Shame that's the best quality of that video on the tubes.
Bahahaha.Boudica said:
Please note, the name (Mr. F) and now I will drop in that I am a bisexual and that the argument that all heterosexual sex is rape is not one that I agree with on any level, it is just down to the nature of academia and feminist theory.
I mean, hell, the theory that I will now explain (Which, again, I do not agree with) came out of feminism which is something I am given to understand that you agree with. I am using it as an extreme example to try and explain why people need to start seperating theory from reality.
In society women have less power then men, correct? As a result of this, they have less agency when compared to men, they do not have as much choice in their decisions. Now, factor this in to sex. Because women have less agency, their consent is worth less then a mans. Because their consent is worth less, it can be argued that their consent was not "True" consent due to the nature of society. Ergo, the sex that occured was rape.
Doop de doo.
But if you were arguing against the existence of reality you could not really use well established theories within your argument. But that argument, the one I just outlined, exists. It is abused by some radical feminsits (Occasionally called Feminazi's by morons) but for many within the feminist community it is a point of some contention and something to be discussed.
Because if you accept that women have less power then men, which most feminsits do (Its sorta one of the points behind feminism) then you accept they have less agency, if you accept they have less agency then they cannot make full consent, ergo rape. Again, I do not agree with the argument at all (Just making that clear)
I made the point because, well, whilst BDSM might be sexist if you analyse it (And come on, it all plays on power fantasys and whatnot. It would not even be hard to explain why Femdom is sexist against women.) and if you approach it with an understanding of feminist theory, in reality it is not sexist. Like the rape scenario I just gave you, acccording to theory it is one thing but in reality we know it to be another.
And if people cannot start making that definition, if people cannot play nice, people in general should just fuck off. If we started discussing the realities of sexism (And not getting bogged down in theories and name calling) then this discussion would be worth something.
But we wont.
Someone will get called a feminazi
I will be called a White Knight
And some feminist will call someone a "Misogynistic Woman Hating Pig"
Stop getting side-tracked by semantics and get to the point; Why do you dislike men having any power, and what do you mean by "any power"?Boudica said:
Maybe we can sort this out right away.
'I don't like fem-dom because I dislike women having any power''. See any problems with that statement? If I said that for real somebody would probably construe that as sexist.Boudica said:
Having a boyfriend that likes being dominated doesn't excuse it. It's still a sexist viewpoint.Boudica said:
You haven't said it, but you play up to the rhetoric... you make many comments in these type threads defending women to the bone, no matter what their faults are, whilst making it quite plain that you think men as lesser to women, rather than an equal. This is clear by your inability to accept views that are in any way against any women... even if it is blatant the women is wrong...Boudica said:
It's similar to if someone said: 'Whites are totally awesome, and black people are bad at everything'... but then turn around and say 'I can't be racist because I didn't say I was...'
I think this post might stem from a slight misunderstanding of what the majority of people practicing BDSM think it should be about, namely consensus. A dom should not proceed with anything unless She/he is sure that they have the subs consensus. Communication is vital in this sort of relationship.Tsukuyomi said:
It is very important that there are degrees in which people live out their fantasies. Some simply have rougher sex, other live in a 24/7 dominance relationship. Again consensus is the important thing, and if something is terrible for the submissive it shouldn?t be done. BDSM is about mutual pleasure.Tsukuyomi said:
Yes, you have to be ready, but for many people this is like a sexual orientation that has been with them since they matured sexually. Recently I read something in a newspaper (we have had a public discussion about this in Norway because the government has financed an information pamphlet for teenagers about the subject) written by a 16-year old girl who had been interested in BDSM as long as she could remember and started identifying with this when she found out what it was called at the age of 12.Tsukuyomi said:
I am sorry if this turned into more of its one post than an answer to yours. It think we for the most part agree.
I think it's people wearing the feminist label prancing around trying to have a role reversal of how it was in the early 20th century that are really damaging modern feminism, and even making society take steps back.Matthew94 said:
It's like all the online petitions about really whiny issues with games and films. It devalues the petitions, so when one is set up for something that needs speaking out on, it has a lessened effect. IE, any legislation put forward to do things like close the wage gap between the sexes is probably more likely to be discarded because of extremist people running around spewing vile everywhere in the name of 'feminism'.
Just some food for thought.
Yeah, but still no need to talk shit about users in private groups, or to make it so personal.Matthew94 said:
Just a friendly hint.
I'd hardly call the moderation group a private group. Isn't that what it's supposed to be for?Sassafrass said:
Ok since I havent been involved with the rest of this conversation so theres no "history" can you tell ME why you dislike men having power? Its a curious line to take that you make a statement and then repeatedly refuse to defend it.Boudica said:Still waiting for an admission of error on your part or proof of your statement. You made a claim regarding myself at the start of the conversation. Once one of those occurs, I'll answer any question you haveMatthew94 said:
But since im asking nicely could you please tell me?
And what if your aggressive treatment of men makes them hate women and act aggressively towards them? Do you see what I'm getting at here?Boudica said:Since you asked nicely ;PMr_Spanky said:Ok since I havent been involved with the rest of this conversation so theres no "history" can you tell ME why you dislike men having power? Its a curious line to take that you make a statement and then repeatedly refuse to defend it.Boudica said:Still waiting for an admission of error on your part or proof of your statement. You made a claim regarding myself at the start of the conversation. Once one of those occurs, I'll answer any question you haveMatthew94 said:
But since im asking nicely could you please tell me?
I've simply been abused too many times by men to want to allow them to have any more power over me. Like a child bitten by a dog, I guess. I let my current boyfriend have a little control in some ways--gently pushing my boundaries with me so I can work through my issues--but as a general rule, I like it to be all me, zero him. He's pretty much the most amazing person I've met and he totally gets it. So all is well!
No one should be abusing anyone, regardless of gender. Just because men have been abusive and dickish to you, doesn?t mean that you can be abusive and dickish to other, unrelated men.
But wouldn't you think that it is bad to allow your negative experiences to dis-colour your outlook on gender based discussions?Boudica said:
(Apologies if it looks like I'm diminishing your views, its not my intention).
OT: What consenting adults do within privacy is none of my business etc.
I was talking about your general behaviour towards in men on these forums and I can only assume, real life.Boudica said:The point of BDSM is Bondage, Discipline, Sadism and Masochism. It's not really abuse if your partner asks for it and participates in it.Blunderboy said:And what if your aggressive treatment of men makes them hate women and act aggressively towards them? Do you see what I'm getting at here?Boudica said:Since you asked nicely ;PMr_Spanky said:Ok since I havent been involved with the rest of this conversation so theres no "history" can you tell ME why you dislike men having power? Its a curious line to take that you make a statement and then repeatedly refuse to defend it.Boudica said:Still waiting for an admission of error on your part or proof of your statement. You made a claim regarding myself at the start of the conversation. Once one of those occurs, I'll answer any question you haveMatthew94 said:
But since im asking nicely could you please tell me?
I've simply been abused too many times by men to want to allow them to have any more power over me. Like a child bitten by a dog, I guess. I let my current boyfriend have a little control in some ways--gently pushing my boundaries with me so I can work through my issues--but as a general rule, I like it to be all me, zero him. He's pretty much the most amazing person I've met and he totally gets it. So all is well!
No one should be abusing anyone, regardless of gender. Just because men have been abusive and dickish to you, doesn?t mean that you can be abusive and dickish to other, unrelated men.
Besides, he loves women (and me) <3
@PrinceFortinbras
No worries. I'm all for knowing more from people who have had more experiences or different viewpoints. I freely admit that I haven't even scratched the surface of the lifestyle so as such I'm more than willing to bow to superior knowledge or experience in that department.
There is most definitely different and varying layers of relationships. The reason I went mostly to either the shallow or deep end of the pool is that those levels are the things many people hear rumors about.
Mutual enjoyment was indeed something I missed and I should have pointed it out. Although I'd imagine most people with sense would understand that these people wouldn't be willingly doing these things if they didn't get some kind of a kick out of it.
Communication is indeed a huge factor in it, that's rather evident even from the outside looking in. I'd be interested to know what the numbers are in terms of practice in different countries. Here in America it seems like one of the biggest relationship issues is communication in terms of misunderstanding it or a lack thereof, and it would be interesting to cross-reference those who do practice with that vaunted 50% divorce rate we have. See if the practitioners come up on one side of the coin or the other.
I was unaware about the comparison to orientation, although it makes a fair amount of sense. Do you think that covers all 'layers' of BDSM, though? Or would you think it mostly covers the more 24/7 end?
Mostly I just wanted to point out that the rabbit-hole can go very deep and that it's not something to be taken lightly or without proper responsibility. It CAN be very interesting and fulfilling to the people who practice it, though. It's just not for everyone. I just worry about people getting way too excited because of 50 Shades and then hurting themselves or someone else. Not a good thing for anyone.
No worries. I'm all for knowing more from people who have had more experiences or different viewpoints. I freely admit that I haven't even scratched the surface of the lifestyle so as such I'm more than willing to bow to superior knowledge or experience in that department.
There is most definitely different and varying layers of relationships. The reason I went mostly to either the shallow or deep end of the pool is that those levels are the things many people hear rumors about.
Mutual enjoyment was indeed something I missed and I should have pointed it out. Although I'd imagine most people with sense would understand that these people wouldn't be willingly doing these things if they didn't get some kind of a kick out of it.
Communication is indeed a huge factor in it, that's rather evident even from the outside looking in. I'd be interested to know what the numbers are in terms of practice in different countries. Here in America it seems like one of the biggest relationship issues is communication in terms of misunderstanding it or a lack thereof, and it would be interesting to cross-reference those who do practice with that vaunted 50% divorce rate we have. See if the practitioners come up on one side of the coin or the other.
I was unaware about the comparison to orientation, although it makes a fair amount of sense. Do you think that covers all 'layers' of BDSM, though? Or would you think it mostly covers the more 24/7 end?
Mostly I just wanted to point out that the rabbit-hole can go very deep and that it's not something to be taken lightly or without proper responsibility. It CAN be very interesting and fulfilling to the people who practice it, though. It's just not for everyone. I just worry about people getting way too excited because of 50 Shades and then hurting themselves or someone else. Not a good thing for anyone.
Boudica said:
Okay, okay, I hate to be the one who sits here and then casts down my judgement from my high-horse (I know Matthew94 has called me out on it before), but I think we just need a bit of clarification here. I think what Boudica originally meant was that she doesn't want men to have any power... Over her and/or in the bedroom. Which I think we can agree is a bit fairer, although that clarification is all important. Anyway, that's the impression I'm getting, which makes this all one hi-larious misunderstanding. At least I hope it is.Matthew94 said:
Am I right in saying that's what you originally meant, Boudica?
The confusion perhaps arises when you say that men shouldnt have power and leave it there. Im pretty sure that on the power corrupting and absolute power corrupting absolutely basis men and women are equally corruptable.Boudica said:Since you asked nicely ;PMr_Spanky said:Ok since I havent been involved with the rest of this conversation so theres no "history" can you tell ME why you dislike men having power? Its a curious line to take that you make a statement and then repeatedly refuse to defend it.Boudica said:Still waiting for an admission of error on your part or proof of your statement. You made a claim regarding myself at the start of the conversation. Once one of those occurs, I'll answer any question you haveMatthew94 said:
But since im asking nicely could you please tell me?
I've simply been abused too many times by men to want to allow them to have any more power over me. Like a child bitten by a dog, I guess. I let my current boyfriend have a little control in some ways--gently pushing my boundaries with me so I can work through my issues--but as a general rule, I like it to be all me, zero him. He's pretty much the most amazing person I've met and he totally gets it. So all is well!
But in the context of you dont want any man to have power over YOU personally then that makes total sense.