The slut issue

[Treblaine]

It's simple. Allow the man the opportunity to sign away his rights and responsibilities, and walk away. At the very least he should be able to do so if he can prove that he would undergo significant economic hardship due to providing for child support payments.

Child support ALREADY recognises that men who cannot pay do not pay, and that the amount they pay is proportional to their income and is NOT designed to bankrupt them. It is not designed to take away all their disposable income as some kind of punishment.


"Allow the man the opportunity to sign away his rights and responsibilities"
How does that work? That all a man has to do is sign a form and void all responsibility wile doing and giving NOTHING in return?!?

For obvious reasons custody is treated completely separately from child-support as it may be highly inappropriate for some to come into contact with children that doesn't void their responsibility.

Child abandonment is a serious crime, women who do it go to prison if caught. Women can't just leave their responsibility for their child unless they are put into the care of other parents or single parent if they prove they can adequately raise the child.

The ONLY EQUIVALENT would be if the biological father proved that the baby had a new parent supporting it. Like for example if the mother of the baby was living romantically with a man who had the capability to support the child then the child becomes HIS responsibility.

Because while it's wrong for either parent to abandon your biological offspring, it's also wrong to involve yourself with a woman yet neglect to support her children.

Rememberer, the key part of child support is not the "gotta get money out of him" but "the child must be supported".

A single parent *can* raise a child, which is why they are not obliged to file a case asking the biological father to contribute.

 

[someonehairy-ish]

Well you could always call them promiscuous...

 

[Stasisesque]

Problem: when did "slut" come to mean "a woman who is honest about her sex drive, and enjoys sex?"

Outside of porn, I'm guessing more or less never.

And yet if you ask anyone involved with the slut walk movement (which is ultimately the reason we're having this conversation), they'll tell you that's exactly what it means, and since that's not a bad thing, we shouldn't be using the word as a pejorative. It absolutely boggles the mind.

I don't know what a Slut Walk is where you're from, but here they are protests against rape, not about enjoying sex. To participate in a Slut Walk is to demonstrate a woman should not have to change her attitude or clothing to avoid getting raped, but that people shouldn't rape in the first place.

Look up why they're called slut walks. It involved a cop suggesting that women probably shouldn't walk alone in a bad part of town "dressed like a slut," and it snowballed from there. It's primarily a protest against rape, but it's the use of the word "slut" that got everyone pissed off in the first place, and that definition is the reason frequently given for why the word itself is so offensive.

The cop told women not to 'dress like sluts' in order to stay safe,

Which makes sense, despite the poor choice of words.

i.e. to avoid getting raped. The founders of the movement responded to this by latching on to the offensive word, it isn't an attempt to reclaim the word as some sort of positive term.

That's good for them. I still think it's idiotic though.

Slut Walks are so named, at least the ones in London, to shock people into realising it isn't okay to use words like 'slut' to make excuses.

What excuses? Please elaborate.

A woman who enjoys sex is not a slut,

No, they certainly aren't. Sluts however are in fact sluts. The question is far more what we define to be a slut. I don't consider a Woman who enjoys sex a slut. But enjoying sex doesn't exactly require one to constantly look for it.

a woman who dresses provocatively is not 'asking for it',

Sure she is. Well, obviously not to be raped, that takes a special kind of person to actually want that, but she certainly is asking for special, sexual attention.

and 'slut-shaming' is repulsive behaviour. Perhaps some critics have taken the marches and their name the wrong way, but from those I know (and myself) who have joined up with these women, it isn't about reclaiming the word but shaming every single person who's used it and thought it was fine.

Why is this "repulsive behavior"? Sluts are something that society doesn't like. So why is it repulsive behavior to make it clear to them that the rest of us respect them less for it? What is repulsive about that? Do you respect everyone equally regardless of who they are and what they do? Don't bother answering, we both know you don't, in fact, the whole "repulsive bahavior" thing illustrates rather well that you disrespect people that would use the word.

Here's the thing. The cop is/was right. Obviously you shouldn't dress provocatively if you don't want that special attention. Obviously, if you do want that attention, some terrible people are going to give you more then you bargained for. Just because you don't want that to be true doesn't actually make it so, it just shows that you are in denial. Sadly we can't just magic all the rapists away. We can however tell women to avoid situations that might lead to them being raped. You know, like walking around in the worst area of the city in the middle of the night all alone whilst wearing nothing but dental floss. Sorry Ladies, but doing something like that just isn't a luxury you have. Just like I can't walk around a black neighborhood ironically chanting hate speech without getting my ass kicked. It doesn't really matter that I didn't actually mean to be racist, it's still how I'm going to come across...and I certainly wasn't asking to get the shit kicked out of me, but my behavior sure did compel it. Just like you weren't actually inviting everyone to fuck you and you certainly weren't asking to be raped, your behavior still compelled it though, so you certainly aren't entirely without fault.

*Not YOU specifically, YOU in the general sense.

I'll address all of your points, except your suggestion that the way a woman dresses somehow entitles her to some of the blame for being raped. That's a pretty inflammatory suggestion you've made and I don't want to get into an argument about it.

Excuses, such as well the above. Sexual assault comes in many forms, one of which is claiming the woman was 'asking for it', a frequently used excuse is that "she's a slut". Assault is assault, there are no excuses, however there is this overwhelming suggestion that if a girl is "a slut" she is somehow not entitled to enough respect to prevent this. I imagine, however, you're going to immediately disagree based on your comparison to committing a hate crime in a black neighbourhood.

If a woman enjoys sex she is entitled to look for it, however often she wants. Everyone is.

When I said a woman who dresses provocatively is not "asking for it" I was specifically referring to rape and sexual assault. Yes often they are looking for sexual attention, again there is nothing wrong with this.

The key word here is shaming. It's just a fancy-schmancy word for bullying, but with good cause. While it can apply to certain behaviours, enjoying sex frequently and with multiple partners is not a crime nor particularly bad behaviour and certainly shouldn't be treated as such. You are entitled to think of a "slut" badly, but that doesn't give you the right to treat one badly.

As I said, Slut Walks here are specifically to protest against rape, to show people that those who have been the victim of sexual assault or rape were not at fault regardless of their dress or behaviour.

 

[In Search of Username]

Because it's usually an insult, not just a neutral description. If you simply use it as that, fair enough. But most people consider it an insult.

 

[Smeatza]

I'll address all of your points, except your suggestion that the way a woman dresses somehow entitles her to some of the blame for being raped. That's a pretty inflammatory suggestion you've made and I don't want to get into an argument about it.

Excuses, such as well the above. Sexual assault comes in many forms, one of which is claiming the woman was 'asking for it', a frequently used excuse is that "she's a slut". Assault is assault, there are no excuses, however there is this overwhelming suggestion that if a girl is "a slut" she is somehow not entitled to enough respect to prevent this. I imagine, however, you're going to immediately disagree based on your comparison to committing a hate crime in a black neighbourhood.

If a woman enjoys sex she is entitled to look for it, however often she wants. Everyone is.

When I said a woman who dresses provocatively is not "asking for it" I was specifically referring to rape and sexual assault. Yes often they are looking for sexual attention, again there is nothing wrong with this.

The key word here is shaming. It's just a fancy-schmancy word for bullying, but with good cause. While it can apply to certain behaviours, enjoying sex frequently and with multiple partners is not a crime nor particularly bad behaviour and certainly shouldn't be treated as such. You are entitled to think of a "slut" badly, but that doesn't give you the right to treat one badly.

As I said, Slut Walks here are specifically to protest against rape, to show people that those who have been the victim of sexual assault or rape were not at fault regardless of their dress or behaviour.

If I go on holiday without locking the doors of my house, and while I am away on holiday my house gets robbed, I am not to blame. I should have been able to leave my house unlocked without someone stealing from it, but unfortunately, in real life, that is not the case.

While I understand that point the slutwalk movement is trying to make I think it is going about it in the totally wrong way.
It gives the impression that individuals should not practice risk-management in their day to day life and seeks to remove a certain sense of personal responsibility.

The fact of the matter is that if you wear sexually provocative clothing in areas with high crime levels, you are more likely to get raped than if you don't. No that does not mean one should be blamed if they are raped as a result of wearing sexually provocative clothing, but it also doesn't mean you should explicitly tempt the odds.

Like I say, it is simple risk management, not victim blaming/shaming at all.

 

[themind]

Because if you want to describe someone who sleeps around, you call them promiscuous, not a slut.

Slut has a negative connotation attached to it, very much the difference between calling a gay person gay or calling them homo/queer/[insert term].

It's insulting to use foul language to describe people, period.

 

[Hoplon]

The cop told women not to 'dress like sluts' in order to stay safe'

Which makes sense, despite the poor choice of words.

Why? it what way does how you dress have an actual effect on other peoples choices? Because I a pretty sure it has nothing to do with it other than as a excuse for apologists.

i.e. to avoid getting raped. The founders of the movement responded to this by latching on to the offensive word, it isn't an attempt to reclaim the word as some sort of positive term.

That's good for them. I still think it's idiotic though.

SUPER!

Slut Walks are so named, at least the ones in London, to shock people into realising it isn't okay to use words like 'slut' to make excuses.

What excuses? Please elaborate.

"That they where asking for it" "not to dress like sluts' in order to stay safe" the same tired old victim blame bullshit you seem set on perpetuating

A woman who enjoys sex is not a slut,

No, they certainly aren't. Sluts however are in fact sluts. The question is far more what we define to be a slut. I don't consider a Woman who enjoys sex a slut. But enjoying sex doesn't exactly require one to constantly look for it.

Nor does enjoying sex mean they do? I'm not even sure what you are talking about, seeking out sex is pretty much normal behaviour for our species, since with out it we die out. See Giant Pandas for referance.

a woman who dresses provocatively is not 'asking for it',

Sure she is. Well, obviously not to be raped, that takes a special kind of person to actually want that, but she certainly is asking for special, sexual attention.

Is that what you call it?

and 'slut-shaming' is repulsive behaviour. Perhaps some critics have taken the marches and their name the wrong way, but from those I know (and myself) who have joined up with these women, it isn't about reclaiming the word but shaming every single person who's used it and thought it was fine.

Why is this "repulsive behavior"? Sluts are something that society doesn't like. So why is it repulsive behavior to make it clear to them that the rest of us respect them less for it? What is repulsive about that? Do you respect everyone equally regardless of who they are and what they do? Don't bother answering, we both know you don't, in fact, the whole "repulsive bahavior" thing illustrates rather well that you disrespect people that would use the word.

Here's the thing. The cop is/was right. Obviously you shouldn't dress provocatively if you don't want that special attention. Obviously, if you do want that attention, some terrible people are going to give you more then you bargained for. Just because you don't want that to be true doesn't actually make it so, it just shows that you are in denial. Sadly we can't just magic all the rapists away. We can however tell women to avoid situations that might lead to them being raped. You know, like walking around in the worst area of the city in the middle of the night all alone whilst wearing nothing but dental floss. Sorry Ladies, but doing something like that just isn't a luxury you have. Just like I can't walk around a black neighborhood ironically chanting hate speech without getting my ass kicked. It doesn't really matter that I didn't actually mean to be racist, it's still how I'm going to come across...and I certainly wasn't asking to get the shit kicked out of me, but my behavior sure did compel it. Just like you weren't actually inviting everyone to fuck you and you certainly weren't asking to be raped, your behavior still compelled it though, so you certainly aren't entirely without fault.

*Not YOU specifically, YOU in the general sense.

Yeah see that's why it's repulsive, you're blaming a victim of a fucking horrible assault for something that was some one else's decision, a decision that was almost certainly made long before they even encountered the victim at all. The cop isn't right, you aren't right. How a woman dresses or behaves has nothing to do with whether or not they where assaulted. The fact that people like you think it does is what make them so afraid of reporting it.

 

[Hoplon]

If I go on holiday without locking the doors of my house, and while I am away on holiday my house gets robbed, I am not to blame. I should have been able to leave my house unlocked without someone stealing from it, but unfortunately, in real life, that is not the case.

While I understand that point the slutwalk movement is trying to make I think it is going about it in the totally wrong way.
It gives the impression that individuals should not practice risk-management in their day to day life and seeks to remove a certain sense of personal responsibility.

The fact of the matter is that if you wear sexually provocative clothing in areas with high crime levels, you are more likely to get raped than if you don't. No that does not mean one should be blamed if they are raped as a result of wearing sexually provocative clothing, but it also doesn't mean you should explicitly tempt the odds.

Like I say, it is simple risk management, not victim blaming/shaming at all.

...The most provocative clothes in the world do not in anyway equate to not locking your house up, it not even like leaving an upstairs window open.

And high risk areas? the fuck? this shit happens in peoples own homes, not on the mean streets.

 

[Stasisesque]

Problem: when did "slut" come to mean "a woman who is honest about her sex drive, and enjoys sex?"

Outside of porn, I'm guessing more or less never.

And yet if you ask anyone involved with the slut walk movement (which is ultimately the reason we're having this conversation), they'll tell you that's exactly what it means, and since that's not a bad thing, we shouldn't be using the word as a pejorative. It absolutely boggles the mind.

I don't know what a Slut Walk is where you're from, but here they are protests against rape, not about enjoying sex. To participate in a Slut Walk is to demonstrate a woman should not have to change her attitude or clothing to avoid getting raped, but that people shouldn't rape in the first place.

Look up why they're called slut walks. It involved a cop suggesting that women probably shouldn't walk alone in a bad part of town "dressed like a slut," and it snowballed from there. It's primarily a protest against rape, but it's the use of the word "slut" that got everyone pissed off in the first place, and that definition is the reason frequently given for why the word itself is so offensive.

The cop told women not to 'dress like sluts' in order to stay safe,

Which makes sense, despite the poor choice of words.

i.e. to avoid getting raped. The founders of the movement responded to this by latching on to the offensive word, it isn't an attempt to reclaim the word as some sort of positive term.

That's good for them. I still think it's idiotic though.

Slut Walks are so named, at least the ones in London, to shock people into realising it isn't okay to use words like 'slut' to make excuses.

What excuses? Please elaborate.

A woman who enjoys sex is not a slut,

No, they certainly aren't. Sluts however are in fact sluts. The question is far more what we define to be a slut. I don't consider a Woman who enjoys sex a slut. But enjoying sex doesn't exactly require one to constantly look for it.

a woman who dresses provocatively is not 'asking for it',

Sure she is. Well, obviously not to be raped, that takes a special kind of person to actually want that, but she certainly is asking for special, sexual attention.

and 'slut-shaming' is repulsive behaviour. Perhaps some critics have taken the marches and their name the wrong way, but from those I know (and myself) who have joined up with these women, it isn't about reclaiming the word but shaming every single person who's used it and thought it was fine.

Why is this "repulsive behavior"? Sluts are something that society doesn't like. So why is it repulsive behavior to make it clear to them that the rest of us respect them less for it? What is repulsive about that? Do you respect everyone equally regardless of who they are and what they do? Don't bother answering, we both know you don't, in fact, the whole "repulsive bahavior" thing illustrates rather well that you disrespect people that would use the word.

Here's the thing. The cop is/was right. Obviously you shouldn't dress provocatively if you don't want that special attention. Obviously, if you do want that attention, some terrible people are going to give you more then you bargained for. Just because you don't want that to be true doesn't actually make it so, it just shows that you are in denial. Sadly we can't just magic all the rapists away. We can however tell women to avoid situations that might lead to them being raped. You know, like walking around in the worst area of the city in the middle of the night all alone whilst wearing nothing but dental floss. Sorry Ladies, but doing something like that just isn't a luxury you have. Just like I can't walk around a black neighborhood ironically chanting hate speech without getting my ass kicked. It doesn't really matter that I didn't actually mean to be racist, it's still how I'm going to come across...and I certainly wasn't asking to get the shit kicked out of me, but my behavior sure did compel it. Just like you weren't actually inviting everyone to fuck you and you certainly weren't asking to be raped, your behavior still compelled it though, so you certainly aren't entirely without fault.

*Not YOU specifically, YOU in the general sense.

I'll address all of your points, except your suggestion that the way a woman dresses somehow entitles her to some of the blame for being raped. That's a pretty inflammatory suggestion you've made and I don't want to get into an argument about it.

So, basically you are going to answer everything except the main point which is questioning your overall stance? If you do truely believe that a victim can never shoulder any kind of blame in any way, I'm sure you can elaborate why that is. Please, do so.

Excuses, such as well the above. Sexual assault comes in many forms, one of which is claiming the woman was 'asking for it', a frequently used excuse is that "she's a slut".

When and by whom? I can't help but get the feeling that you don't actually understand what people like the police officer and I am saying. Evident in the next gem.

Assault is assault, there are no excuses, however there is this overwhelming suggestion that if a girl is "a slut" she is somehow not entitled to enough respect to prevent this.

See, this is where you wander into stupid territory. Nobody is saying that a slut deserves to be raped, atleast nobody in their right mind. This is you misinterpreting what you are reading. People that actually think that way, that dressing provocatively is a REASON to rape someone will gain no respect from anyone. You are essentially arguing a point that nobody made.

I imagine, however, you're going to immediately disagree based on your comparison to committing a hate crime in a black neighbourhood.

I don't have to disagree because I honestly do not. I just think you are misguided and do not understand what the actual argument is.

If a woman enjoys sex she is entitled to look for it, however often she wants. Everyone is.

People are entitled to a lot of things, that however is not a argument. I could also go out and kill somebody right now, sure, it would be illegal, but what would actually be stopping me? Nothing would. I am entitled to do whatever I want, I may be punished in context of the law or the context of society, I can still do whatever I want though. The same applies to the slut, sure, he/she can fuck around as much as they want, they however aren't entitled to this being ignored by everyone else.

When I said a woman who dresses provocatively is not "asking for it" I was specifically referring to rape and sexual assault. Yes often they are looking for sexual attention, again there is nothing wrong with this.

I know, the second point however isn't as irrelevant as you seem to want to portray it.

The key word here is shaming. It's just a fancy-schmancy word for bullying, but with good cause. While it can apply to certain behaviours, enjoying sex frequently and with multiple partners is not a crime nor particularly bad behaviour and certainly shouldn't be treated as such. You are entitled to think of a "slut" badly, but that doesn't give you the right to treat one badly.

Sure I do. Why wouldn't I have the right to treat someone badly? If I didn't I'd be arrested for shaming them, wouldn't I? I also disagree with your stance that it isn't bad behavior. It is. It is to ignore others well-being for your own personal gratification. That hurts society, it is, by definition, bad behavior in the context of society. Shaming them is soceitys way of getting them back in line. That's not something that everybody wants but it is ultimately whats best for the collective.

Now, I don't actually shame anyone, that however doesn't change the fact that some things are deserving of said shaming.

As I said, Slut Walks here are specifically to protest against rape, to show people that those who have been the victim of sexual assault or rape were not at fault regardless of their dress or behaviour.

I know full well WHY they do those things. They are still wrong though.

The quotes got all messed up here so it was pretty hard to follow. My remark that there is an overwhelming suggestion that if a girl is a "slut" she is not entitled to respect was not in reference to any points made by you, or even in this thread, but simply a continuation of the explanation for why Slut Walks happen. They are there to dispel the myth that a "slut" is somehow a lesser human being. The rapist should be on the receiving end of all of the vitriol, but they often are not. Arguments like yours that the victim should shoulder some of the blame are the most frequently chanted. I find it very difficult to argue successfully against such a claim, because to me it's a baffling stance to take.

In my mind the thought of a victim of rape or sexual assault having to assume any blame is ridiculous. It's like asking someone who's been stabbed to apologise for being near a person with a knife, or someone who's been mugged accepting that maybe they shouldn't own valuables. If either of those retaliations seem insane to you, that is how your argument sounds to me.

 

[Angie7F]

I think whether you call it a slut or promiscuous, there is always judgement.
However maybe the word will evolve to be used in a little more "empowering" way soon, like the word *****.
A lot of women (including Paris Hilton circa simple life) used it to mean women who are outspoken and know what they want. So mayb the same for slut too.

 

[Smeatza]

...The most provocative clothes in the world do not in anyway equate to not locking your house up, it not even like leaving an upstairs window open.

If that's where you choose to draw a line then that is your opinion.
If that metaphor is too much for you - I choose not to display my mobile phone in high crime areas due to the risk of it being stolen (and thus a risk of me being assaulted).

And high risk areas? the fuck? this shit happens in peoples own homes, not on the mean streets.

I was referring to the slutwalk movement, which is entirely about the "mean streets."

 

[Hoplon]

Also because you say so? Wow, your post was really insightful, boy am I glad that somebody told me I'm wrong because he says so.

oh I'm sorry I seem to have missed your massive amount of corroboratory evidence for your position. I'm sure if I dig around it will pop up some where...

Wait no, it won't because there isn't any.

Yes I refuted your opinion with my own. It's not on me to prove anything you're the one saying it's causal, I'm disagreeing. Also even a quick google turns up lots of stuff that show it had nothing to do with the way they are dressed in public. [http://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/sexual-assault-offenders]

 

[Hoplon]

I choose not to display my mobile phone in high crime areas due to the risk of it being stolen (and thus a risk of me being assaulted)

I was referring to the slutwalk movement, which is entirely about the "mean streets."

Okay, you keep using high crime areas like it means something, it doesn't. this is not something that happens to people in the same way as showing off expensive items leads to theft.

Rape is not about desire, it's about power and control.

 

[clayschuldt]

Also, I think it comes down to whatever you define as "a lot". Is three a lot? How about 25 sexual partners. Is 25 still a lot if it's over a period of 30 years?

Some people drop the term slut at the drop of hat. A lot of times it used just out of fustration. The person they call isn't really a slut, they just have more sex than the person using the term. Think about how many times a jealous girlfriend or gilted ex used the term. The term might be accurate for some but needs to be used a person with no bias.

 

[Smeatza]

Okay, you keep using high crime areas like it means something, it doesn't. this is not something that happens to people in the same way as showing off expensive items leads to theft.

Are you saying that no rapes are opportunistic? If so that's willfully ignorant.

Rape is not about desire, it's about power and control.

In some cases.
It is a myth that is always the case, do some research and you will see that the older you are, the less likely you are to get raped.
AKA. The less attractive you are, the less likely you are to get raped.
This is especially relevant when referring to opportunistic rape, the rape that the slutwalk movement refers to.

 

[Stasisesque]

The quotes got all messed up here so it was pretty hard to follow.

Yeah, sorry about that.

My remark that there is an overwhelming suggestion that if a girl is a "slut" she is not entitled to respect was not in reference to any points made by you, or even in this thread, but simply a continuation of the explanation for why Slut Walks happen. They are there to dispel the myth that a "slut" is somehow a lesser human being.

So, when did being criticized become being treated inhuman?

The rapist should be on the receiving end of all of the vitriol, but they often are not.

Sure they are. Saying "You know, you could have avoided this." is not giving someone vitriol. That's just common sense and I could apply it to anything. "You wouldn't have been shot if you and the shooter would have been at different places." Given, it's pointless for the victim after the fact, but maybe some other woman won't be quite as foolish after hearing it. Like I said, if you are a woman and you are dressed provocatively and alone you are a easy victim. And yes, it is your own fault if you are a easy victim. It isn't your fault if somebody acts upon you being a easy victim, but it is your fault that you were a easy victim in the first place.

Arguments like yours that the victim should shoulder some of the blame are the most frequently chanted. I find it very difficult to argue successfully against such a claim, because to me it's a baffling stance to take.

Here's the thing though. The concept isn't difficult to grasp, it's really really simple even. It baffling you...well...what is that supposed to make me think about you? If the concept is so simple and you just don't get it, what am I supposed to think?

In my mind the thought of a victim of rape or sexual assault having to assume any blame is ridiculous. It's like asking someone who's been stabbed to apologise for being near a person with a knife, or someone who's been mugged accepting that maybe they shouldn't own valuables. If either of those retaliations seem insane to you, that is how your argument sounds to me.

And this makes me think what we both know I am thinking even more. I mean, really? Seriously, your analogy is terrible. No, it isn't anything like asking someone who was stabbed to apologize for being near someone with a knife. That would be the case if I said "Silly women, of course you are going to get raped if you are EVER around ANYONE who could potentially rape you." but I didn't say that. You know what would fit better? If your analogy was "That's like saying that someone is a moron to be surprised when they end up stabbed after they jumped between 2 people having a knife fight."

Because that's pretty much what I'm saying. You don't get to act surprised when you recieve harm after putting yourself in harms way, maybe you shouldn't put yourself in harms way if you don't want to be harmed. This isn't rocket science, it's common sense.

I did say that if my analogies seemed insane to you, you'd know exactly how you sound to me - so in that respect they appear to have done their job. However, to counter your improvement of my analogy, that would be suggesting any woman who dresses provocatively is deliberately putting herself into a situation in which she may be raped. So, is a man in a nice suit doing the same? I mean, he looks rich so there's an increased risk he'll be mugged? We should all start advising men to stop dressing like businessmen, for their own safety of course. They won't mind they're being told how to dress because it's in their own best interests?

On January 24th, 2011, a representative of the Toronto Police gave shocking insight into the Force's view of sexual assault by stating: "women should avoid dressing like sluts in order not to be victimized".
As the city's major protective service, the Toronto Police have perpetuated the myth and stereotype of 'the slut', and in doing so have failed us. With sexual assault already a significantly under-reported crime, survivors have now been given even less of a reason to go to the Police, for fear that they could be blamed. Being assaulted isn't about what you wear; it's not even about sex; but using a pejorative term to rationalize inexcusable behaviour creates an environment in which it's okay to blame the victim.
Historically, the term 'slut' has carried a predominantly negative connotation. Aimed at those who are sexually promiscuous, be it for work or pleasure, it has primarily been women who have suffered under the burden of this label. And whether dished out as a serious indictment of one's character or merely as a flippant insult, the intent behind the word is always to wound, so we?re taking it back. "Slut" is being re-appropriated.
We are tired of being oppressed by slut-shaming; of being judged by our sexuality and feeling unsafe as a result. Being in charge of our sexual lives should not mean that we are opening ourselves to an expectation of violence, regardless if we participate in sex for pleasure or work. No one should equate enjoying sex with attracting sexual assault.
We are a movement demanding that our voices be heard. We are here to call foul on our Police Force and demand change. We want Toronto Police Services to take serious steps to regain our trust. We want to feel that we will be respected and protected should we ever need them, but more importantly be certain that those charged with our safety have a true understanding of what it is to be a survivor of sexual assault ? slut or otherwise.
We are tired of speeches filled with lip service and the apologies that accompany them. What we want is meaningful dialogue and we are doing something about it: WE ARE COMING TOGETHER. Not only as women, but as people from all gender expressions and orientations, all walks of life, levels of employment and education, all races, ages, abilities, and backgrounds, from all points of this city and elsewhere.
We are asking you to join us for SlutWalk, to make a unified statement about sexual assault and victims' rights and to demand respect for all. Whether a fellow slut or simply an ally, you don't have to wear your sexual proclivities on your sleeve, we just ask that you come. Any gender-identification, any age. Singles, couples, parents, sisters, brothers, children, friends. Come walk or roll or strut or holler or stomp with us. This has become a global movement, with Satellites happening all over the world. See if there?s one in your city.
Join us in our mission to spread the word that those who experience sexual assault are not the ones at fault, without exception.

This is the blurb from the first official Slut Walk website [http://www.slutwalktoronto.com/]. If you want to argue your points, I suggest you take them up with any of the men or women who are part of that movement. All of them will share my views, quite a lot of them will be much less stupid than I.

 

[Hoplon]

Okay, you keep using high crime areas like it means something, it doesn't. this is not something that happens to people in the same way as showing off expensive items leads to theft.

Are you saying that no rapes are opportunistic? If so that's willfully ignorant.

Rape is not about desire, it's about power and control.

In some cases.
It is a myth that is always the case, do some research and you will see that the older you are, the less likely you are to get raped.
AKA. The less attractive you are, the less likely you are to get raped.
This is especially relevant when referring to opportunistic rape, the rape that the slutwalk movement refers to.

I would suggest most rapes are opportunistic, but that how you have dressed isn't a meaningful causal or correlatory link in any literature I can find.

No, I applied reasoning, you simply made a claim. I'm not even asking you for "facts", I'm looking for reasoning.

Also, that link of yours? Doesn't say a damn thing about motivation.

Sorry your reasoning is as much a claim and anything I have said.

The link, and any other link I can find, don't say anything about motivation because there isn't any meaningful causal or correlatory link to the way the victim comported them selves.

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

So I have a question...
So then why is it "wrong" to call someone a player/slut if they sleep around a lot? It seems to me like you're just stating the obvious with this, you know?

Because lying and cheating are bad things.

The gamer term doesn't parallel because "slut" does not mean "someone with an interest in sex" - sadly there isn't a non-judgmental word for that.

Now, personally, I have always tried to reclaim the word slut. I proudly refer to myself as a slut, attend events like "Slut Walk," and so forth - but that's because I am trying to call attention to the language.

Here's the thing though - just because a group uses a 'shaming term' to self identify and thus defuse the term, it doesn't make the term less bad when it is used for shaming and hatred. See also: the N-word, Fag, Dyke, and ****.

 

[monkey_man]

If you're a slut, you're probably not in my friendcircle anyway, so I cant really care about those people, both male or female. But if you are, and you knock someone up/get knocked up, only you are to blame.

calling people with a decent sexlife a slut is not right. There's a difference between someone who has an easy and sexfilled life, but who's responsible and not over the top, and someone who sells themselves for a drink. Calling a person who bangs someone else every few days a slut is perfectly justifiable, and if they're hurt or offended(which they could be) they should look at themselves a bit better.

Someone who dresses like a prostitute being called a slut is also justifiable, because the only reason to dress like that is either peer pressure, or stupidity. It's not pretty, it's not decent, it's not comfortable. it's showing off as much body as possible, for one reason.

 

[Daveman]

"Slut" is associated with negative connotations whereas we modern people don't view having sex with lots of people as being necessarily a bad thing. Lies are bad so liars are bad. Cheating is bad so cheaters are bad. By using a word like "slut", whatever meaning you may want to impose on it is overridden by the fact that it implies you believe having lots of sex is a bad thing.

So basically calling a person a "slut" is an insult because it has been established as an insult and "player" is typically meant positively. Had a damn similar discussion about the N-word.

You may as well ask why anyone is insulted by anything. If I call a policeman "a massive ****" why doesn't he respond "you are incorrect, I am not large female genitalia" and leave it at that? And that, your honour, is my defence. I rest my case.