The 'whats the point in marriage?' debate :)

[bdcjacko]

80%? Where are you getting this I've seen 40% to 80% of all marriages fail. And this ranges a large number of source.

Here is a source: http://www.divorcerate.org/

But still just because some people get divorced doesn't mean divorce is pointless for all.

 

[iamthelizardqueen88]

Well, first off, marriage is not strictly related to religion. People have been getting married before Christianity even existed for example. Non-religious people usually don't have a religious ceremony in a church, they have what's called a civil ceremony. And they can chose where they have this ceremony, ei. City Hall, outdoors etc.. So they don't employ the church's services at all. I don't know where you got the idea that marriage has to go through the church.

Second of all, from your post, I'm going to assume that you don't know that marriage is actually a legally binding contract that the government recognizes. There are a couple benefits to this: like certain social services, certain tax breaks, also can make a joint bank account that can come with lots of other financial benefits.

And thirdly, and this is probably the most important point of marriage, is that it's a commitment. When you marry someone, your basically telling them in a fancy, and elaborate way that you will love, and support them, and be faithful to them for the rest of your life. If you think of marriage in a cold, rational way, then you will never understand. You have to use your emotional side. I really hate to pull the age card, but how old are you? It's likely that you'll understand this concept when your older.

Grrr you beat me to the punch. Well played you sly fox well played

 

[Legion IV]

Whats the point of anniversary gifts i see so many people do. Oh tehehe its our 1 month lets do gifts. Gimme a break.

Whats the point in a relationship? Oh i basicly have a friend of the opposite sex but with benifits. She'll nag me and expect me to read her mind.

Your right there isint much of a point. In a perfect world with perfect people sure. But the way things are and the current state of mind for most people there isint.

Get a job buy a house hang with your best friends and enjoy life. Thats all you need.

I'll agree, having month anniversaries is a crock. But lemme guess, you are 18?

Comon now stop acting like your guessing you know my age its on my profile. you really didnt say much i canm argue with so i guess i'll throw this out there. Let me guess you've gotten the flu berfore?

If your implying the whole (Your 18 you dont know about love and relationships) Thats bs. that is all

 

[TiefBlau]

Let's not glorify things here: marriage is a contract, perpetuated by tradition. But it's still a pretty effective means of proclaiming love and demonstrating sacrifice. It also has a place in many religions (holy matrimony, etc.) It encourages stability in families, etc.

That being the case though, I don't think marriages should get benefits from the government. Parents should, but there's really no point to giving benefits to married couples. And by extension there's not a single fucking point to making something as arbitrary as gay marriage illegal.

 

[Devil's Due]

This is just me, but whenever I see someone arguing against marriage, I assume they are a teenage boy, or they have the maturity level of a teenage boy.

*And after checking the age of everyone else that has posted, and finding the oldest of you is 22, I kind of stand by that.

Looks like you're the only one with the teenage boy maturity level in this thread, friend. Nice insults by generalizing an entire form and their opinions behind the matter just because it conflicts with your own ideals. Pathetic, honestly.

As for the thread, I have nothing against marriage, but I also see no point in it. My current girlfriend has been with me for two years and our love is still there, and should we decide to get married in the future, I honestly doubt a little piece of paper is going to suddenly blossom or protect our love like some sort of insurance. Marriage is not a love insurance.

 

[Shpongled]

ok, i'm seeing the following argument too much:

"its all emotional, you need to go through it to understand"

Bullshit. emotions work. emotions make sense. people get angry when they are threatened, happy when good things happen. emotions are a good thing. emotions are not some kind of zen, otherworldly concept that requires magic to make use of. they are basic chemical impulses. that out of the way, i see only two arguments remaining:

1. tax breaks/legal aid
2. "it feels nice"

Marriage: making lust and greed sacred since (i can't be arsed to look up when marriage started happening) BC.

If you think marriage is nothing more than lust and greed, then you clearly don't have a full understanding of the emotions behind it.

To fully understand these emotions, you have to experience them, most people won't experience these emotions until later in life, which is why age is very much relevant in this discussion.

Marriage is the ultimate celebration of a couples love for one another. The words "I love you" don't satisfy the expression of these emotions any more than the words "That's a shame" are sufficient for the death of a loved one.

Divorce is an issue, but not with the institution of marriage itself.

As to the logic argument, there is logic behind marriage. Happiness, emotional well-being and fun are all reasons people choose marriage, perfectle logical reasons. They may not be logical reasons for you, but they are logical reasons for others.

 

[The Red Spy]

This to me seems a pointless question to ask, because I don't have a partner to read my feelings for and what to us is deemed 'necessary' or 'special'.

For example, I couldn't tell you what type of jewellry I would buy for a potential girlfriend because I don't have one, and so I don't know what she might like, might dislike, what she may appreciate or loathe. How can I make a decision based on the preferences of a person who I have yet to meet or know anything about, let alone her tastes?

Why is marriage any different? How could my feelings on the subject now hope to possibly influence how I might feel when I've met that person (and consequently gotten to know them)? If I've even considered this, then it's a possibility, and I think you are being naive if you think what you say here is the be-all and end-all.

 

[MetalPhoenix]

I'm a little late to join the discussion, but I felt like joining in.

I haven't read the entire topic, so my point could already have been made. If so, I apologise.

But I see a lot of responses here that marriage is a civil "contract" that gives married couples a lot of financial benefits. It is very very disturbing that governments discriminate against single people by doing so. There are plenty of people who have no experience in love and will be alone for a great portion of their lives. There are even those who choose to stay single.
So what makes marriage so important that governments will discriminate against single people.

It would seem more likely that single people should get more benefits, because it's difficult enough to survive on your own (mortgage/rent, car payments etc..)

 

[pulse2]

Snip

Benefits this, benefits that, you make it sound like marriage is for convenience and not for love. If that's the case, why do you care so much who you get married to, we all want convenience to a certain degree, we should just marry whoever the heck we next bump into who also wants to have all those same benefits. After all, like you've clearly made out, we would much rather live an easier life married than live a hard trecherous one like mine without being married. Darn, look at all those benefits I'm missing out on, you know what? I should go propose to my gf right now.

Did you miss that whole part at the end that was actually directed at you where I pointed out the romantic and pragmatic reasons for marriage. One of which being a public display of commitment to another individual who you love?

Also, if you bother to look through that list of benefits you might notice that if you don't pick out someone you can live with the rest of your life, you are likely to get fucked over. Which is apparently what happened to Rak.

That was behind a wall of the benefits you pointed out, so you can understand if I got bored halfway through it and assumed you were just highlighting benefits, which is exactly the same way people in society depict marriage, a wall of conceited and convenient benefits and a single thought about what it means for love and commitment, which is EXACTLY why divorce rates are rising in the first place and why this topic came up. If we were to take out all those potential benefits, it wuld seem like your arguement has little or nothing to be optimistic about :/ You know what would piss me off? If someone stood before me and lectured me about how I should marry my gf because of all those benefits long before they even so much as mention love, determination, encouragement, commitment, companionship and all the things that SHOULD make me consider marriage.

All those benefits are the some of the reasons why the farce of arranged marriage exists in the first place in some cultures.

My other arguement for everyone this time is why is it so bad to not be married? Why must every human conform to the same ritual, it seems as though it's not okay to even so much as mention marriage not having much purpose for some people, but perfectly okay for society to scrutonize those who aren't married. Take a hypothetical situation, society naturally has the common instinct to praise those who are married, despite the fact they may in fact hate each other's guts but are putting on false smiles to seem like a happy normal couple as well as granting those same 'benefits' to married couples like as if it is a human requirement to follow the same exact path in life as every tom, dick and harry before you, the moment you step out of the box, people get shocked. Why is it so shocking? In fact, why do people automatically ask if you are considering marriage if you've been with your partner for a long period and get shocked when you say no? So what? I haven't considered marriage, why is that selfish? Why is that unacceptable? Why is that a sign that I must have issues in my relationship or I don't love my partner enough to commit that everyone must make thier business as if one has personally insulted their intelligence?

Actually, that last arguement just there came from my mother a minute ago, figured I'd just add it to my arguement, lol, she hates hypocrites

 

[Godhead]

The document that says you are legally married gives you some good points with the government. Like certain tax cut benefits. Nobody likes to pay taxes.

 

[Uncreation]

Meh. To each his/her own. It can offer some monetary advantages, in the very least.
On the other hand, though, marriage is just an institution, it's not magic. It's the emotional connection that holds two people togheter. If it doesn't exist marriage will not spontaneously create it. If it disappeared, it will not just raise it back from the dead. Sure, some married people stay toghether even if they don't love each other anymore, but i doubt it's the institution of marriage itself that's doing that. Most often it's because of their children, or because they consider they're too old to start searching for love again or etc.

 

[bdcjacko]

This is just me, but whenever I see someone arguing against marriage, I assume they are a teenage boy, or they have the maturity level of a teenage boy.

*And after checking the age of everyone else that has posted, and finding the oldest of you is 22, I kind of stand by that.

Looks like you're the only one with the teenage boy maturity level in this thread, friend. Nice insults by generalizing an entire form and their opinions behind the matter just because it conflicts with your own ideals. Pathetic, honestly.

As for the thread, I have nothing against marriage, but I also see no point in it. My current girlfriend has been with me for two years and our love is still there, and should we decide to get married in the future, I honestly doubt a little piece of paper is going to suddenly blossom or protect our love like some sort of insurance. Marriage is not a love insurance.

I'm not generalizing an entire forum. I'm generalizing the mind set of boys 15 - 25 (give or take a few years). Most boys of that age (me included when I was) thought marriage was stupid and got in the way of personal goals. The hard truth is that young men/boys what ever you want to call them are not emotionally mature enough for marriage, and see it as a logical exercises to say "marriage is only a institution made up by government and religion, two things I'm against for reasons I'm not entirely sure of." So there is a knock against marriage from the group.

Also as a teenager, most boys are intimidated by the fact marriage means only one sexual partner for the rest of their life, oh no!!!! Now some guys really can get a different girl every night, or every week, but they never have a full meaningful relationship, just empty sex. After a while you start to notice sex is sex, and also you start to realize how much work you have to put into getting laid every weekend by a new chick. Also lets be realistic, lots of us are getting no sex, so having one partner is a set up. But I'll tell you what, marriage isn't about sex either.

But I'm not saying that everyone should get married, I'm just saying teenager and young twenty somethings males generally think marriage is stupid. And I'll agree, they probably shouldn't be getting married.

Also if you think I was insulting teenagers and young twenty somethings instead stating a fact, well that just goes to show how emotionally immature you are.

 

[Cat Cloud]

If you are married, and by that I mean bound by a contract (as in the government recognises you as being married) or ring, you have a higher chance of staying together. You have promised to stay together in front of a great number of family and friends. You are marked by your ring as "taken" and recognised by the government as such. These factors tend to make couples stay together longer. The involvement of religion is important only if you feel it is relevent to you.

My point is this: getting married is like signing a contract. It's more than love or infatuation. It is a contract saying you will stay together and work through your problems. Sure, you can say these things with out marriage, but it will just be two people saying words to eachother. Just cause your high school girlfriend or boyfriend said he or she loves you didn't mean you realationship has worked out today.

Maybe I am idealistic or just being a girl, but I don't think marriage is only light and fluff. I think it is more substantial than that.

 

[Giest4life]

This is just me, but whenever I see someone arguing against marriage, I assume they are a teenage boy, or they have the maturity level of a teenage boy.

*And after checking the age of everyone else that has posted, and finding the oldest of you is 22, I kind of stand by that.

Thus the insane name their disease: maturity.

OT: Marriage is tradition just like Christmas, New Year's, Easter, Halloween, Thanskgiving and etc. There is no inherent value in it.

 

[Deleted]

To think of marriage as holy or sacred is a joke. We have reality shows that revolve around marriage and "finding love". And just look at the divorce rate...

That said, its a good financial move because I think you're seen as one unit and you pay less taxes or something? Sharing money is also good if both people are rich.

But with how fickle people are when it comes to love, marrying before you're 30 or have a set carrier is an iffy move.

 

[Sunstrike]

Alot of marriage traditions are based on religion and stuff, but in modern times it's alot like a legal contract (you actually do have to sign a bunch of papers and shit IIRC). Basically it's a civil contract of you and your spouse decided to work and/or live together sharing your property and stuff. Oh, and getting sweet tax breaks, that to (not sure if it's still around but their used to be a bunch of government handouts to people who got married, social engineering and all that).

It's really up to you and your partner to determine whether you want to get married. It's a great gesture of mutual respect and love, it legally binds you together and affects your social status and standing in some respects.

 

[Dys]

It is a tradition thing (that predates Christianity), it tends to be more for ones family than for themselves. I personally think it cheapens love, if I love someone I shouldn't need a binding contract to keep me in line, nor should they.

 

[Shraggler]

There's a whole slew of history behind marriage. Everything from trade (woman for land/cow/crops/etc.) to political maneuverings ("If the Prince of Country A marries the Princess of Country B then we shall rule the world!").

Nowadays, I suppose people do it out of (A) Tradition and (B) Income/Tax reasons.

Biologically, it both does and doesn't make sense. Logically, males should be "spreading their seed" to as many females as possible in order to increase the chance that they have offspring survive through child-birth and their younger years. Mating with only one partner significantly reduces this possibility and thus the survival and propagation of the species.

Since we are arguably the most intelligent and adaptive species on the planet, we don't really need to worry about the above. Medical science, along with the massive amount of human irresponsibility leaving millions of orphan children, mean that your chances of having offspring of your own or being the "owners" of someone else's offspring are very likely.

Some would argue that marriage creates a family atmosphere and bond. However, we can simply look at divorce rates and toss that out the window. Marriage is not treated like a commitment anymore - it tends to feel as if it's being treated as a hopeless romantic's (read: idiot's) ideology of the ultimate goal, only to realize when they get there, reality finally comes crashing down and you can't text "divorce" fast enough.

I would say that arguably, now, marriage is about the offspring. It's proven both in the "wild" and in human nature that offspring have a better chance of flourishing and surviving if they have a strong household to fall back on and/or return to (such as when they can't individually succeed in a goal, challenge or struggle).

Society has definitely changed since the 50's and the succeeding generations have been treating marriage as less and less of an important thing. It has also become statistically incredibly risky, especially financially.

 

[Ace of Spades]

It's a show of faith. To say to another person "I'm going all in. I want to spend the rest of my life with you and you alone." However, that doesn't really hold up much anymore, since so many marriages just end in divorce. But it's still a nice lingering tradition, and humans are creatures of habit after all.