The Witcher 3's Sex Scenes Came From 16 Hours of Mo-Cap Data - Update

[Gethsemani_v1legacy]

I'm honestly kind of surprised how much negative feedback this statement is generating. The developers clearly think this aspect of their game is important; why is sex less worthy of attention than any other aspect of life?

The problem is that CDProjektRed hasn't really shown that they are capable of handling sex or intimacy in a consistently mature fashion. The first Witcher is the game that spawned the infamous "Sex Cards"-meme and in which you basically gave random items to random NPCs to get a picture of them naked and a fade to black after some innuendo.
The Witcher 2 had 4 sex scenes (if I recall correctly) for Geralt and at least one of those was tastefully done (Geralt and Tess in the Elven Bath), the other three being rather debatable (one was a fetch quest reward with an unnamed NPC, the other was the end of a storyline of a named NPC and basically amounted to gratitude sex and the third a deal with a Succubus of sex for some of Geralt's life force). It also involved a totally out of the blue scene where you walk in on a sorceress spanking her maid who is tied up on the bed. A scene that had no further plot relevance and was never mentioned after that.

CPR is also the company that released the trailer for Cyberpunk, which prominently involved a cyborg woman in underwear in the act of killing people and which they drew a lot of criticism for. Hence the problem is not sex or sexuality. The crux is whatever CDProjektRed has managed to get out of their juvenile obsession with inserting (semi-)naked women in their games for pure fanservice, an obsession they previously tried to pass off as "making mature games".

This is why so many of us are skeptical of announcements like this from CPR, because it sounds just as much like puerile posturing about how hot their fanservice nudity will be as it sounds like an announcement about how dedicated they are to making their storytelling as good as can possibly be. Which of the two options you think is the most likely depends on what you think of their previous track record.

Me? I remain slightly skeptical. I think CPR has the potential to use their sex scenes in a serious fashion, but I also think they've consistently failed to deliver on that potential in favor of simple fanservice.

 

[Amaror]

The Witcher 2 had 4 sex scenes (if I recall correctly) for Geralt and at least one of those was tastefully done (Geralt and Tess in the Elven Bath), the other three being rather debatable (one was a fetch quest reward with an unnamed NPC, the other was the end of a storyline of a named NPC and basically amounted to gratitude sex and the third a deal with a Succubus of sex for some of Geralt's life force). It also involved a totally out of the blue scene where you walk in on a sorceress spanking her maid who is tied up on the bed. A scene that had no further plot relevance and was never mentioned after that.

I didn't see the succubus or fetch-quest sex scenes you mentioned, but how is vess's scene "gratitude sex"? As far as i remember it's more a matter of "I like sex, do you like sex? Then let's have sex."
You don't really do anything for her personally, so i can't see why the sex scene should be viewed as gratitude. Additionally the scene was also pretty well done.
Just like the scene with Triss in the elven bath, the scene reflected the relationship really well. While the sex with Triss was between two people in a longer relationship and was accordingly romantic, the scene with ves displayed two people just having fun with each other and was presented as such.

 

[Loonyyy]

See, again with this moronic "Afraid of sex" "Prude" type bit. Why must you say things about me that are malicious and untrue? I didn't say I was afraid of sex. Or that I had a problem with sex. Again, it's a poor way of filling the player in. Even if it is some post sex cuddling, Geralt fucks every other woman he meets. Something that people who actually have a single clue about the game would know. That's why it gives you no information. Even when you clutched at straws to try to find anything that the scene says about their relationship, you got that they'd bang, and that she's maybe not evil.

But hey, if you wanna flounce, do it. Hell, it's not like you or your ilk have contributed anything to the discussion apart from refusing to read.

AH so i contributed nothing to the conversation.[/quote]
Well, yeah. You lied about my position, and then attacked the lie repeatedly. That contributes nothing. And there's more than a few lies in there. "Afraid of sex". I mean really. Could we move a little higher than high school discussion? Or must I ask how your mother is doing.

Interesting since i recall you going on and on about saying how sex equals bad writing because I SAY SO!

If you have to rephrase what I wrote to respond to it, then what you're saying is probably untrue. As here. I didn't say sex equals bad writing. And I certainly didn't say because I say so. I don't know why you'd expect anyone to discuss writing with you if you refuse to read.

Geralt has a lot of sex, so what?

I said what. If it's meant to show that Yenefer is special in some specific way to him, it doesn't. And when you tried to find something, you found that she apparently is someone he cares about (Not actually implied by that, but whatever) and maybe not evil. That's not a particularly good introduction, and hence, the excuse that this is an expedient way to introduce the characters, doesn't hold up.

Sex is different for different relationships between people.

This sentence has absolutely no point. I never said anything that runs counter to that. I already contrasted two cases where sex was different. I do have to ask, have you any experience at all with sex, because it feels like I'm talking to a teenager about it, and that creeps me out a little. Most people are aware that sex can mean all sorts of things between different people, and most of them aren't all that afraid of it either.

If two people just want to f**k, you see it when you see them have sex, if they deeply care about each other, you also see that when you see them have sex.

Except Geralt doesn't fuck people because he deeply cares about them. He fucks them because he wants to fuck. Again, are you familiar with the Witcher?

That what makes it good at portraying a relationship.

Not particularly. Again, Geralt doesn't have traditional relationships like that, it doesn't show that she's someone he cares about excessively, just that he wants to have sex with her.

This isn't bioware "Barbie dolls pressed together"-sex scenes, which people with any clue about the series would know.

I've seen the sex scenes. If you think that's a step further from "Barbie dolls pressed together" I'd ask who the prude is. Good thing I didn't talk about Bioware though, or mention any position on those. Haven't finished Mass Effect or Dragon Age Origins and I don't plan to. Oh no, I guess I must be one of those strange fanboys who actually hates the games they're supposedly a fan of.

If it turns out to be badly written, then fair enough, but just because there is a sex scene, or the implication of sex, doesn't mean that it's going to be badly written in the slightest.

That's not what I said. I did not say that including or implying sex makes the writing worse. I said that using a sex scene, or post coital cuddling, to establish the relationship with a character to establish the plot is lazy, and their justification why only adds to that sentiment. I've no problem with the Witcher having it's juvenile sex scene game, mashing shiny plasticine together, I think it's funny when they pretend that that's some sort of writing ability, or necessity. And your lack of critical reading turned that into a bunch of gibberish that you felt obliged to jabber at.

Bye Bye.

 

[Gethsemani_v1legacy]

I didn't see the succubus or fetch-quest sex scenes you mentioned,

They are both part of Iorveth's path, meaning you can't see them if you side with Roche.

but how is vess's scene "gratitude sex"? As far as i remember it's more a matter of "I like sex, do you like sex? Then let's have sex."
You don't really do anything for her personally, so i can't see why the sex scene should be viewed as gratitude. Additionally the scene was also pretty well done.

Because it is locked to you if you "throw" the duel or get defeated by Ves in the arena. The build-up to the scene is even Vess thanking Geralt for taking her seriously.

Just like the scene with Triss in the elven bath, the scene reflected the relationship really well. While the sex with Triss was between two people in a longer relationship and was accordingly romantic, the scene with ves displayed two people just having fun with each other and was presented as such.

I'll agree that it was well staged, but I find the lead up to it troubling. To be honest I debated whatever to put the scene with Ves alongside the one with Triss simply due to how well staged it was, but ultimately I decided that if I ain't sure of how well it was handled it probably wasn't that good to begin with. It isn't the scene itself that bothers me but rather how it feels kind of like a Bioware romance in that you achieve a certain goal, respond with the proper dialogue and get treated to a nude Ves. It is sex as a reward, even if it is far better framed than the random Elf NPC in Iorveth's path.

 

[Amaror]

Because it is locked to you if you "throw" the duel or get defeated by Ves in the arena. The build-up to the scene is even Vess thanking Geralt for taking her seriously.

Ok, maybe in the sense that the sex scene is a "reward" for the player to complete a certain quest. It's still a perfectly well done sex scene in the context of the game and the world. What i understand more under gratification-sex would be if it would go something like "Thank you for doing x for me, you are allowed to f**k me now", which the scene with ves is clearly not.
She doesn't want to have sex with geralt because he did some task for her, but because he acts in a way she approves of, which is generally the way most people choose their sex partners aside from physical appearance.

 

[Amaror]

snip

Ok, at this point i think we can just aggree to disaggree. You think this sort of thing is lazy, i don't.
I can understand that you don't want to talk about it any more, because i frankly feel the same.
There is just a single point of yours that i still want to adress:

Except Geralt doesn't fuck people because he deeply cares about them. He fucks them because he wants to fuck. Again, are you familiar with the Witcher?

Are, you? Geralts likes sex and also has sex without any feelings involved without problem, but he does care greatly about his friends and about a few of his romantic partners.
In the games, he clearly cares a lot about Triss. Concerning Yennefer, the woman we are talking about, it's crystal clear from the books that he is in love with her. All the way.
If you want an example of what i mean when i say that feelings that are involved can be pretty damn well shown in a sex scene, just look at The Witcher 2. Mainly the Triss and Vew sex scenes.
Geralt cares a lot about triss, which shows in the sex scene. The whole scene is rather romantic and the sex itself is slow and gentle.
In the sex scene with Ves both parties involved just want to have some fun and it shows in the scene. No romance, just straight to business and the sex is faster and more wild.

 

[Fox12]

Are, you? Geralts likes sex and also has sex without any feelings involved without problem, but he does care greatly about his friends and about a few of his romantic partners.
In the games, he clearly cares a lot about Triss. Concerning Yennefer, the woman we are talking about, it's crystal clear from the books that he is in love with her. All the way.

I just want to put my two cents in here, because I think it's an important point to make. We get that Geralt has a thing for Triss and Yennefer, both in the books and hopefully in the game. Unfortunately, I don't think we get that from their boning. We get that from their interactions outside of that. The first Witcher story starts with a sex scene, and it didn't really tell us anything about the characters. That seams to be the primary issue here, that the aforementioned scenes don't communicate the characters relationships very well, especially when a large number of Witcher stories seem to start with Geralt in bed with someone we've never met. Context is everything, and here it seems clear that they wanted to include nudity in the game for nudities sake, and not to advance the plot in a meaningful way.

 

[Amaror]

I just want to put my two cents in here, because I think it's an important point to make. We get that Geralt has a thing for Triss and Yennefer, both in the books and hopefully in the game. Unfortunately, I don't think we get that from their boning. We get that from their interactions outside of that. The first Witcher story starts with a sex scene, and it didn't really tell us anything about the characters. That seams to be the primary issue here, that the aforementioned scenes don't communicate the characters relationships very well, especially when a large number of Witcher stories seem to start with Geralt in bed with someone we've never met. Context is everything, and here it seems clear that they wanted to include nudity in the game for nudities sake, and not to advance the plot in a meaningful way.

Why is that clear to you here. He clearly states the reason why they put the sex scene in. And yeah the sex scene from The Witcher 1 didn't tell us anything about the characters, which is one of the reason they were so bad in the Witcher 1.
But as i allready said, the sex scenes in the witcher 2, at least the ones with major characters, told us quite a lot about them and were well done.
The first scene of the witcher 2 also managed to get quite a lot of information about triss and geralt across within a very short amount of time and also was a "the morning after" scene, just like the one from the Witcher 3 will most likely be.
Therefore i see no reason to doubt that they will manage the same thing with the Witcher 3.

 

[Silence]

I read a german preview today and guess what: They did, maybe based on their choices, maybe because it is scripted this way, NOT bone Yennefer in their first scene. They wanted - the opener was seeing her naked and trying to bone her - but instead something else came in between.

I'm amazed about how much you can discuss on a purely speculative basis.

 

[Techno Squidgy]

So, no one has actually seen this scene yet, right?

SO WHY ARE THERE 4 PAGES OF ARGUMENTS?! HOLY SHIT GUYS, CHILL THE FUCK OUT.

Once it's out, go nuts, discuss the quality of the acting, the necessity of the scene, the place of sexual content in gaming, whatever. Right now, we have the tiniest sliver of information about this scene. Arguing over speculation and insulting each other's intelligence and/or country of origin is just plain silly. Stop that.

Spoiler

 

[Riot3000]

You know I know of the Witcher and I could care less about "mature" content or attempts at lambasting over peoples views of sex because in the end it just pretentious nonsense all around.

I just hope the mocapp actors have a union because this some legit exploitation right here or at least a raise.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

Because 9 times out of 10 sex scenes in movies are superfluous...

Hyperbolic evidence does not make for good support of one's claims. Not to mention that this line in particular completely ignores any post in which I compare "superfluous" sex scenes with "totally awesome" action scenes in order to illustrate how sex is arbitrarily just plain bad all the time no matter how appropriate for the story it might be, while action scenes can be as superfluous as they want to be and people will still defend them because, "It's just an action movie dude, don't get so hung-up on the story."

I'm not saying sex is arbitrarily bad. Although I do hate seeing it. However as I said Hollywood filmmakers often throw it in there for now good reason. Besides sex scenes are rarely done well in my experience. As for action scenes. Well action scenes tend to get the adrenaline going so it's easier to ignore that fact that a lot of it is superfluous. However when it comes to sex scenes, at least for myself, I find myself wondering "why the hell am I seeing this?"

I'm honestly kind of surprised how much negative feedback this statement is generating. The developers clearly think this aspect of their game is important; why is sex less worthy of attention than any other aspect of life?

It's not, but when the developer feels the need to brag about the sex scenes in their game I question the quality of the rest of it.

I love how suddenly the developer is bragging, seemingly just for the sake of being able to attach another ugly word to the subject of the news post.

Well as Jim Sterling once mentioned, romance and sex in particular, rarely amounts to more than a token mini-game which makes it even worse than when it's arbitrarily thrown into a film for no reason. So when news about the developer wasting 16 hours worth of mo cap on sex scenes comes out I have to wonder if the game has much else going for it.

You do realize the subjectivity, extremely personal one at that, that goes with your opinion in the first paragraph?
Id rather see sex then the usually shitty (IMHO) fight scenes or action scenes Hollywood puts.
Same with games for me really. Though I realize my position is subjective as all hell too.

Also, you did understand that the actual scenes are not 16 hours? 16 hours was the Mo Cap time that was required to make them. So they are probably a few minutes at most.
Why is it important? Because NO ONE before them has made scenes in this way. So this is a first. And DAMN, it is about time they use that tech for something that might be impactful.
Besides, it is all but confirmed the game starts with cuddling and talking. Only a tad more "spicy" then the Witcher 2 beginning.

Yes I knew that that didn't equate to 16 hours worth of sex scenes. However considering what I know of The Whitcher, I wouldn't have been surprised if it did. Regardless it seems like a waste of the technology to me, but then I hate watching sex.
And yes I'm aware of how subjective that is, that's why my aformentioned rule about films is MY rule not a general rule.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

Because 9 times out of 10 sex scenes in movies are superfluous...

Hyperbolic evidence does not make for good support of one's claims. Not to mention that this line in particular completely ignores any post in which I compare "superfluous" sex scenes with "totally awesome" action scenes in order to illustrate how sex is arbitrarily just plain bad all the time no matter how appropriate for the story it might be, while action scenes can be as superfluous as they want to be and people will still defend them because, "It's just an action movie dude, don't get so hung-up on the story."

I'm not saying sex is arbitrarily bad. Although I do hate seeing it. However as I said Hollywood filmmakers often throw it in there for now good reason. Besides sex scenes are rarely done well in my experience. As for action scenes. Well action scenes tend to get the adrenaline going so it's easier to ignore that fact that a lot of it is superfluous. However when it comes to sex scenes, at least for myself, I find myself wondering "why the hell am I seeing this?"

I'm honestly kind of surprised how much negative feedback this statement is generating. The developers clearly think this aspect of their game is important; why is sex less worthy of attention than any other aspect of life?

It's not, but when the developer feels the need to brag about the sex scenes in their game I question the quality of the rest of it.

I love how suddenly the developer is bragging, seemingly just for the sake of being able to attach another ugly word to the subject of the news post.

Well as Jim Sterling once mentioned, romance and sex in particular, rarely amounts to more than a token mini-game which makes it even worse than when it's arbitrarily thrown into a film for no reason. So when news about the developer wasting 16 hours worth of mo cap on sex scenes comes out I have to wonder if the game has much else going for it.

You do realize the subjectivity, extremely personal one at that, that goes with your opinion in the first paragraph?
Id rather see sex then the usually shitty (IMHO) fight scenes or action scenes Hollywood puts.
Same with games for me really. Though I realize my position is subjective as all hell too.

Also, you did understand that the actual scenes are not 16 hours? 16 hours was the Mo Cap time that was required to make them. So they are probably a few minutes at most.
Why is it important? Because NO ONE before them has made scenes in this way. So this is a first. And DAMN, it is about time they use that tech for something that might be impactful.
Besides, it is all but confirmed the game starts with cuddling and talking. Only a tad more "spicy" then the Witcher 2 beginning.

Yes I knew that that didn't equate to 16 hours worth of sex scenes. However considering what I know of The Whitcher, I wouldn't have been surprised if it did. Regardless it seems like a waste of the technology to me, but then I hate watching sex.
And yes I'm aware of how subjective that is, that's why my aformentioned rule about films is MY rule not a general rule.

I dont think your idea on what The Witcher actually is has any connection to reality

It aint a waste of technology. I honestly cant think of a better use for that tech.
I mean, have you seen what 4A Games can do (animation-wise) without Mo Cap? Their high tech methods to create standard animation templates is MUCH cheaper then Mo Cap and nearing its quality.

Really? You can't think of a better use for the technology then essentially animating porn?

 

[OriginOfWaves]

Well this is just a hole that CD Projekt guys dug for themselves. they had 2 huge (80+ hour) games to introduce the relationship between Geralt and Yennefer before making her one of the main characters in the 3rd game. and giving Geralt amnesia was a mistake in the first place. why have an already established character as the PC and then give them amnesia? defeats the purpose of having an established character.

But what irks me more is the way they just disregard player choice from one game to the next. just like the screwed over the players that chose Shani vs. Triss in the first game. the 2nd game had some great moments and relationship development between Geralt and Triss and what is it that the devs have you do in the first 10 minutes of the 3rd game? hey, Geralt had sex with Yennefer, who cares about Triss.

I really hope that this isn't the case. and that we get to chose between Triss and Yennefer. so please CD Projekt, don't repeat past mistakes, but learn from them.

 

[endtherapture]

You know I know of the Witcher and I could care less about "mature" content or attempts at lambasting over peoples views of sex because in the end it just pretentious nonsense all around.

I just hope the mocapp actors have a union because this some legit exploitation right here or at least a raise.

How on Earth is it "exploitation"? The mo cap actors were paid by CDProjekt to simulate sex whilst wearing mo cap suits, probably with money. How could you even bring up the fact it's exploitation when the actors were paid for their work and did it with consent? It's not like they were at gunpoint being forced to fake fuck.

 

[DayDark]

You know I know of the Witcher and I could care less about "mature" content or attempts at lambasting over peoples views of sex because in the end it just pretentious nonsense all around.

I just hope the mocapp actors have a union because this some legit exploitation right here or at least a raise.

How on Earth is it "exploitation"? The mo cap actors were paid by CDProjekt to simulate sex whilst wearing mo cap suits, probably with money. How could you even bring up the fact it's exploitation when the actors were paid for their work and did it with consent? It's not like they were at gunpoint being forced to fake fuck.

Well I know in some circles, prostitution is for example considered rape, because it is believed that you can't buy consent. So I guess if one took it a little further, these people were payed to simulate sex, but that isn't consent, so they were basically forced to simulate sex ergo: raped, and or exploited.

EDIT: Not that I believe Riot is in such a circle.

 

[Loonyyy]

Are, you? Geralts likes sex and also has sex without any feelings involved without problem, but he does care greatly about his friends and about a few of his romantic partners.
In the games, he clearly cares a lot about Triss. Concerning Yennefer, the woman we are talking about, it's crystal clear from the books that he is in love with her. All the way.

I just want to put my two cents in here, because I think it's an important point to make. We get that Geralt has a thing for Triss and Yennefer, both in the books and hopefully in the game. Unfortunately, I don't think we get that from their boning. We get that from their interactions outside of that. The first Witcher story starts with a sex scene, and it didn't really tell us anything about the characters. That seams to be the primary issue here, that the aforementioned scenes don't communicate the characters relationships very well, especially when a large number of Witcher stories seem to start with Geralt in bed with someone we've never met. Context is everything, and here it seems clear that they wanted to include nudity in the game for nudities sake, and not to advance the plot in a meaningful way.

That was essentially my point. Geralt, as a character, as much as a character in a game where you make choices that effect the story can be called a character, isn't one who places a special, romantic, naive focus on sex. They have sex for fun (Which is a perfectly fine attitude). They don't do it only with people they're in love with, they don't do it to confirm or consumate love. If we need filling in, a sex scene isn't the expedient way to do it well, which is what the devs were saying was the reason. Apparently time is of the essence, and this is the way to fill the player in. Hence why the developer comment is so funny. The developer response is funny enough from a writing standpoint, it's twice as funny when you consider the Witcher.

However, responding to people who feel the need to say that I'm afraid of sex, a prude, or imply the same, is well, well beneath me.