Yes. People who have a preoccupation with a topic such that they keep returning to it again and again, like prodding a bruise, are usually bothered by it more than they want to admit to themselves or others.
They are trying to cancel Dave Chappell
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So, this special is a bit weird, in that there is really only one punchline, and we get it really early, and it's "boy, isn't it strange how much more we care about feelings than things like actual murder?" and he does have a point. This special opens with him comparing his bodies immune response to covid with all of those racist hate crimes that were going on, and has the running joke of "space jews" (only 1 person so far has even mentioned this here), yet you only hear about the trans bits. Or;
Because, this is his only special where he spends any actual length of time about with trans. His two specials before this have (if I remember correctly) three total jokes between them that deal with trans: the one where he realizes he is dancing with a trans-woman, and then the two from Sticks and Stones (road trip and the "I'm chinese" bit), of which the only one that is really bad is that Chinese face one. Total time between these two specials? 15 minutes, top. Keep in mind also that Sticks also starts with a bit about how Bourdain killed himself and how he is a "victim blamer" (in direct reference to the MJ allogations), but again, the thing that takes the spotlight is the trans bits.
And he isn't erasing black queerness (the story about the police does have two black, gay men in it), but rather that there is more to being a minority than just saying you're one, and if you can still enjoy the benefits of the majority, are you really a minority (see also, all those dumb "white genocide" morons).
Then why the hell are people trying to push for his deal to be cancelled with Netflix, his specials pulled from the service and if not to see Netflix itself damaged with walk outs and actors and directors boycotting the service until the content is pulled and Dave's contract ended?
So if he's done it for 3 specials why is it only now people are blowing up about it?
*This is what I get for engaging in another Current Events thread.*
My statement was hyperbole; not about to waste my time proving my *exact* point to be "right."
If anything, that was his point as well.
You're free to perceive them however you please or displease.
That is subjective. And observational comedy is not the only valid type of comedy. But, in this case, as a non-LGBTQ+ person himself, one could argue his jokes WERE observational, as someone on the outside looking in.
I know that Carlin bit, and it's one of my favorites of his. Could one not argue that Carlin was emasculating the sport of baseball by making it sound so much less "manly" than football? Where's the self-righteous and justified outrage from fans of America's pastime? See where I'm going? Where's the line? What can we joke about?
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Agreed. Many of his jokes might not land the same for everyone, but that doesn't make him objectively and intentionally a bigot.
Again, not going to riffle through his hours of comedy for "proofs" to sate your demands, but I know for a fact he has mentioned his interactions with members of the LGBTQ+ community in his bits, and it's never been about his disgust or disdain for them.
And? There are countless jokes from countless comedians I don't find funny; my not "getting it" is not an objective quality of the jokes' content.
You don't have to like Dave Chappelle; no one does, but the second we start expecting comedians run their material through the infinitely fine filter of popular sentimentalism, we've lost the art of comedy. Like the completely objective review Jim Sterling, sorry, "STEPHANIE" Sterling did a few years ago, it lacks so much flavor as to ironically become "tasteless" in the polar opposite direction.
I mean, you're free to dislike it as much as you want, but that is the central theme running throughout.
Yep.
My patience for hyperbole is stretched a little thin right now. Nothing personal.
The best comedians agree that truth is arguably the most important part of comedy. If we can't agree on a baseline of what is real, irony has no meaning and sarcasm is just saying things weird.
I also remember very clearly growing up in the 90's and into the 2000's how nerds, myself included, lamented that all the nerd jokes were being made by outsiders looking in. Now that the shoe is on someone else's foot, suddenly we're okay with outsiders looking in.
I am of the belief that insiders with satirical insight will always be better at making jokes about their own than outsiders. Dave's jokes satirizing black culture would be pretty cringe coming from a white guy.
Do you think that was what the joke was actually about?
His actions tell a story of a guy with some unexamined prejudices.
He made transphobic jokes in the past. He's either a bigot or just oblivious. Neither one is a good look.
So the accusation here is that I just don't get the joke? Then explain it to me.
Because apparently it didn't register the first time, I'll try to make myself clearer. Dave is allowed to rant and whine that trans women have penises, and trans people have a right to say, "Man, fuck you," just as I or any other cis person has the right to roll our eyes and consign Dave Chappelle to the "washed up" category.
Again though, that thing about Rowling and TERFs wasn't a joke, it was him saying he supports them. There wasn't even an awkward silence from the audience like it was a failed joke, it was him saying he supports them.
And yeah, when a black comedian jokes about black tropes it's a lot easier for all audiences to laugh about it, because the audience reckons they have lived experience and aren't talking from a place of ignorance. I doubt Chappelle has much experience being trans, so his jokes about trans people are really not going to land as easy. And to bring back Rowling and TERFs again, if a trans comedian said they unironically supported them I would still think that's transphobic. I mean, Blair White does exist (not that she's a comedian, thank God).
Is Chappelle objective transphobic? I don't know, I can't see into his mind, but what he said regarding Rowling and TERFs IS objectively transphobic. And in the end, if any comedian makes jokes about a marginalized group and that marginalized group really doesn't find it very humorous, then it was very likely a bad joke.
This. This is the point I'm trying to get at. Comedy is not a shield against criticism, nor does it give a blank check for second class behavior.
Fair enough. That doesnt give people who didnt like a bad joke the right to demand deplatfromization. Critque and even metabomb the shit out of it, thats all fair game. It is a different story for stomping your feet like a big baby and demand that because you didnt enjoy a joke, nobody else should ever be allowed to watch that joke either.
Pack it in, guys. There's one trans person who isn't offended by Dave Chappelle, therefor no one has the right to be offended.
Hey you have the right to be offended, but you don't have the right to demand that anyone gives a shit.
Just saying, "This one marginalized person agrees with me," isn't a particularly good defense. It's the same tactic as saying, "I can't be racist, I have one black friend!"
Also, Blaire White is hardly a credible voice for trans issues considering the shit she's said in the past.
Sounds to me like anyone who doesn't agree with your POV is basically an uncredible source. So why even bother having a discussion if you immediately dismiss anyone who's opinion differs from yours. Which BTW Blair specifically brings up in the video about how the trans community butts heads with itself because not everyone in on board the mob-train.
It's extremism and nothing more.
Would you like me to cite some examples of awful shit she's said that demonstrate her lack of credibility? Because I can. It's not a difference of opinion when you're just fucking wrong.
Ok, so right off the bat I freely admit I'm on shakier ground here, so feel free to correct me, but there are two distinct parts to this bit: the first is Dave (rather clumsily) noting the distinction between gender and sex, in that at the end of the day, everyone is born and that process almost always involves...having the correct bits (sex?) Vs gender (what you identify as? Again, my understanding here is not great, sorry, and isn't helped because I think Chappelle got them backwards).
As for "Team TERF", that one feels like a trap for TERF's than an actual endorsement. Remember, outside of the trans criticism the other large body of negative to his recent specials has been from feminists for his me too bits. And the trap works as thus: either you flip the script, and Dave is right (making the person out as both an unscrupulous hack who will take anything out of context so long as it agrees with them, and also their disregard for other women) or Dave is still an asshole who hates women (and leave with the implicit -"and he is an asshole because he's a TERF" hanging unsaid).
Says the dude who asked people to explain why they think a thing, only to immediately dismiss their opinion because it differs from his
The dude's entire punchline is that he's transphobic and he thinks people should laugh *with* him being transphobic, not *at* him for being transphobic. That misgendering a dead trans woman is *funny*
That entire Daphne story was "I'm transphobic but made a trans friend". Why not take him at his word? He's on team terf, he agrees with JK Rowling, why not take him at his word?
Do you not see the hypocrisy of this?
Critical has a habit of labeling anyone who disagrees with him an extremist. Apparently, the only correct answer is to be a fence-sitting know-nothing who doesn't stand for anything real.
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