This is Why Criticizing Anita Sarkheesian is Irrelevant and Pointless

Tanakh

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The-Traveling-Bard said:
Well that's just your opinion.

But I really don't see a difference between behaviors of Anita and most serial killers.

Behaviors, not actions.
I do hope your work has as little human interaction as possible, as observing them or interacting with them is probably not your forte.

OT: I find Anita Sarkheesian irrelevant, a mediocre practicant of social sciences but a great business woman on the trolling venue.
 

The-Traveling-Bard

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Tanakh said:
The-Traveling-Bard said:
Well that's just your opinion.

But I really don't see a difference between behaviors of Anita and most serial killers.

Behaviors, not actions.
I do hope your work has as little human interaction as possible, as observing them or interacting with them is probably not your forte.

OT: I find Anita Sarkheesian irrelevant, a mediocre practicant of social sciences but a great business woman on the trolling venue.
Okay, let's take a look at 1999 school shooting.
2 kids shoot up a school because nobody listened to them.
OH LOOK WHAT HAPPENED! They got on the front cover on many, many magazines and was the main story for months even years.

Look at Anita.
She went to a site that clearly is made up by 13-16 year old kids who troll each other and posted her crap.
OH, LOOK WHAT HAPPENED! Now she's some "big" hit and is now playing the victim game!

But Murica loves it's victims!
 

Dr Pussymagnet

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The-Traveling-Bard said:
Dr Pussymagnet said:
The-Traveling-Bard said:
Dr Pussymagnet said:
The-Traveling-Bard said:
Vrex360 said:
;-; If you would be so kindly as to message me h

What the fuck.

You heard it here first folks, Anita Sarkeesian, a person who just talks about fucking video games, is literally just as bad as a school shooter

These responses are god damn embarrassing.
Metaphors.
Should look it up sometime.
Sorry, I'll remember to be more specific when criticizing shitty opinions.
Well that's just your opinion.


But I really don't see a difference between behaviors of Anita and most serial killers.

Behaviors, not actions.
hahahahahaha oh my god okay fuck this im out of here.
 

Tanakh

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The-Traveling-Bard said:
Not sure how big, but she has managed to make a brand with some recognition and traction out of her name with high school level social science essays and posts. Fail to see how that makes her actions and mannerisms those of a serial killer, you know, her behaviour.

I would attribute her success more to her engaging a real issue (sexism in video games) and shouting harder than anyone else while being willing to drop the level of discourse to twitter and troll forum standards (being as massive as possible). I would love to see her using some real psychology, sociology and above all demography with juicy statistics; for a person with an MA her discourse is just fluff and basic concepts, but then again I am not even sure what "social and political though" is supposed to mean.
 

The-Traveling-Bard

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Tanakh said:
The-Traveling-Bard said:
Not sure how big, but she has managed to make a brand with some recognition and traction out of her name with high school level social science essays and posts. Fail to see how that makes her actions and mannerisms those of a serial killer, you know, her behaviour.

I would attribute her success more to her engaging a real issue (sexism in video games) and shouting harder than anyone else while being willing to drop the level of discourse to twitter and troll forum standards (being as massive as possible). I would love to see her using some real psychology, sociology and above all demography with juicy statistics.
Because that's generally how serial killers are. They want to be known, and be famous. That's why only a few years ago the media got the good idea to stop posting serial killers on the front cover magazines.

I'm not against Anita. I actually agree with her, but to claim it as sexism? It's a complete bullshit. It's just bad story writing and nothing more. The fact she claims that things like Kayne West Monster video is sexist EVEN THOUGH IT WAS SPEAKING AGAINST THE OBJECTION OF WOMEN IN THE FIRST FUCKING PLACE. It makes me hate her and want to strangle her. The fact she finds sexism in things only because she wants them to be there is nothing short of crazy.

Christmas loves songs are sexist by the way.

Really.. Anita.. really?
 

Tanakh

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The-Traveling-Bard said:
We have two venues here:

a) It's not really fair to say that wanting to be famous characterizes serial killers. Because if you look at stats (like this http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-01-09-gen-y-cover_x.htm?loc=interstitialskip ) more than half of young people want to be famous. It's like characterizing serial killers by liking nutella or enjoying a movie; while it might be true, it's a trait too common on the young population to be indicative of something. Thus comparing her to serial killers in her behaviour based on that seems flunky.

b) She is a communication studies major with a social and political thought MA, and it shows, she is efficient in getting her message across. She is however deficient in the depth, the methodology, the theoretical frame and the statistical significance of her facts and thesis. I think she might be the feminist the videogame community needs and deserves, but I would pass on seeing her almost always.
 

The-Traveling-Bard

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Tanakh said:
The-Traveling-Bard said:
We have two venues here:

a) It's not really fair to say that wanting to be famous characterizes serial killers. Because if you look at stats (like this http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-01-09-gen-y-cover_x.htm?loc=interstitialskip ) more than half of young people want to be famous. It's like characterizing serial killers by liking nutella or enjoying a movie; while it might be true, it's a trait too common on the young population to be indicative of something. Thus comparing her to serial killers in her behaviour based on that seems flunky.

b) She is a communication studies major with a social and political thought MA, and it shows, she is efficient in getting her message across. She is however deficient in the depth, the methodology, the theoretical frame and the statistical significance of her facts and thesis. I think she might be the feminist the videogame community needs and deserves, but I would pass on seeing her almost always.
She is not the what the feminist need. She needs to be kicked out.
Seriously I love how you ignore that fact she only finds sexism in things when she wants to find them.
Anything that doesn't fit HER idea of a women is sexist.
Anything that doesn't fit her ideal of stories/songs/etc is sexist.

Yeah, she may be getting her messages across. But she is no way even remotely close to being correct, or right.
When you say a song is sexist even though it is speaking out against the objection of women in the first place. That is just... I don't even know a good word for it. Seriously go look it up. Monster Kayne West Anita. She completely misses every point Kayne was stating and IT WAS FOR WOMEN. She misses points. She has no meaning of context. She thinks just because there is no 3 hour story explaining on why you love someone is sexist.

Also.. Would a woman rescuing a man be sexist? Does that some how dis-empower men?
What about a straight man rescuing a gay man. Does this some how dis-empower all gay men?
Do you see the problems with her logic yet?

Also..


:D She turns cute love christmas songs into sexism!
Really?
Really? REALLY?
Please address.
How is EVER fucking okay?

Don't we ALL want to be with our lovers on christmas day?
 

Moonlight Butterfly

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The_Scrivener said:
http://femfreq.tumblr.com/post/52673540142/twitter-vs-female-protagonists-in-video-games

She can pretty much film herself juggling fruit in her basement and as long as the title of her video touches on how much sexism there is in the culture, then she has a legitimate point. I don't want to imply that criticism of her points/videos is invalid or unwelcome on all accounts, but breaking down her style of delivery sort of strikes me as imprudent and short-sighted, like trying to find grammatical errors in Martin Luther King's "I Have a Dream Speech."
Well considering that her initial assertion was correct, there are no games featuring a female protagonist in the launch titles, and what follows is a barrage of misogyny....I'm kind of on her side here. I'm not sure why you're not.
 

TheDoctor455

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The_Scrivener said:
Wars are how equal rights are won sometimes. So yeah, I'm fine with that.

My argument is that redefining our hard-on throbbing hate-spreading culture is a lot more important/worthy of discussion than analyzing Sarkheesian's camera angles or cue card placement.
However, comparing her to Martin Luther King Jr. is a gross, and undeserved (on her end) exaggeration.

She is an intellectual coward.

How do I know this?

Because she disabled comments on her videos, and the only comments that stay on her main channel page are the ones written by sycophants. She also has yet to respond to any of the legitimate criticisms that any of the other youtubers have done in their own videos.

Like say, TheAmazingAtheist politely pointing out that she disabled comments and just as politely asking her to enable them to get a real discussion going.

Some of the others have also accused her of milking the trolls to get sympathy money on Kickstarter.

Has she responded or even acknowledged any of the valid criticisms leveled against her?

No. Not even in the slightest.
 

Stavros Dimou

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Why are there people still arguing ? She is just a troll. The more you waste your time on her,the worse it becomes,the more she uses it.

These videos nailed it down:

 

Something Amyss

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Moonlight Butterfly said:
Well considering that her initial assertion was correct, there are no games featuring a female protagonist in the launch titles, and what follows is a barrage of misogyny....I'm kind of on her side here. I'm not sure why you're not.
I didn't take this as being against Anita. Oddly enough, most people have gone the other way. Scrivener's now been accused of being Anita's alt here (while probably not serious, the sentiment still speaks).
 

Kailow Krow

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Yeah. I feel like she's condescending sometimes because she knows they're watching but it doesn't phase me much.
She's not that bad even. I don't disagree with her. Sometimes I feel like she's being really professional, sometimes I feel like she seems confused about who her audience is and audience members people need to understand that's much, much, broader and it get's tricky balancing which information to include. And I can sympathize with that. There is some extent where because I'm already aware of this and I consciously agreed with it before hand, and I've played and own a lot of those games and know a lot of what's being said, so I don't feel like I'm a part of the audience she's writing for and that's okay. I feel like there's this tricky line I wish she walked but I understand why she doesn't and that's mentioning changes or ways things could be avoided but you have to understand those are questions we've been wrestling with for a while now. And it comes down to. Lazy writing either by design or by sheer obliviousness, and then attempts to mimic the few times it's debatably okayed as emotionally well done like Shadow of the Colossus in my opinion. I can sympathize with saving lives, and if that's a life I have romantic feelings for then of course that'd change the context and create a stronger emotional resonance. But that's not about me being male, or her being female, because that wouldn't change if that was switched or even if just the roles were reversed. It's supposed about the human connection and condition. However that wouldn't change if we were switched. So I guess it just comes down to representation and disempowering no one at all because continuing that theme, would you like it if your girlfriend had to save you from rule 63 fembowser? And I bet she'd do it anyway too. And T.j. kirk had some points with the heroes journey thing; but that's an old, old relic in and of itself anyway. It isn't sacred and doesn't completely hold up quite like it used to. It's changed, I feel new tropes could even be added, the heroes fall, something for the anti-hero and captured villain so it more closely follows modern hero myths like The Dark Knight and Skyfall. Anyway, that's kind of completely off topic.
And you need to respect anyone who can push so many people's button, troll or not it's incredible that she got a reaction this big negative or positive. What's that saying about how there's no such thing as bad publicity? She's a role model for determination and perseverance if nothing else.

But my core issue, my only problem. Is I feel like pop culture while worthy of scrutiny, and for all those would be writers on the Escapist here's a great list of "what not to do" But I feel like there's more relevant, more real, more threatening issues sort of adult real world grown up political, stuff. I'm afraid of someone pulling the link between videogames and gun violence and videogames and domestic violence, I'm a little scared of the potential for even misinterpretation, but that's a valid concern no matter who's behind the wheel. Same goes for many other people's concerns about things like confirmation bias and the general nervousness people get when that kind of money moves from point a. to point .b or get's put in someone's hands. But I mean, that's just it, she's got a huge freaking audience, a lot of eyes on her; and I can't blame her for being so careful and cautious, quiet and slow sometimes. I'd lay low if I was her too. If she like, released all those videos at once, it's like the internet would collapse.

But yeah. Going back to confirmation bias for a second. And drawing that point back to role reversal. A lot of those angry people are going at those videos expecting to be made angry. They have dispositions about this too. The difference is I know what her opinion is, she's a single individual human. The response on the other hand is a massive number of people. That's evidence of real confirmation bias. She's looking for something, that no offense; actually kind of is there. And I feel like she generalizes the whole of videogames a little much when the industry is mostly in the present. She has a huge back catalogue of old games to reference; but I think people recognize that's accumulative and not representative of the current industry right? She mentioned on twitter how glad she was she saw female character and player in destiny. But microsoft was just pathetic in comparison. I'm insulted and I'm a guy, and that's not why but just because I'm a gamer who knew what was happening and how unfair it was going to be when the fight stick appeared. That was just dreadful and painful. I recognize that it seems like because these tropes are there paints the work in a negative light, however, and again, that's only when it's enforced negatively, to evoke an entirely different type of emotional response, that's when we have trouble. The thing is, I'm okay with peach, because she's not sexier when in captive like what they did to my favorite character in video games ever; in the darkness two. God I wish that game was never made. I loved in insane asylum, and it was a brief bit, true. But I really think it was better that Jenny stayed dead and he fought through all that just to say good bye. I would have written it with that in mind, not vengeance but visiting hours in the afterlife. Make it a more complete tragedy. So yeah, I feel like some examples I do disagree with, I really liked the first darkness game a lot. But I respect the point.
And that's what this boils down to for me in thousand different ways. Respect.
 

The-Traveling-Bard

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NightowlM said:
The-Traveling-Bard said:
NightowlM said:
The-Traveling-Bard said:
Uhura said:
Wyvern65 said:
I will point out for the record that you are being more than a touch disingenuous.
There is nothing disingenuous in pointing out that people who spread the 4chan rumor do not actually have any proof that she did any trolling. Look, you have joined the forums only a month ago and I'm not sure if you have followed the Anita discussion before you joined, but the 4chan rumor is one the most common things people bring up when they want to attack Anita or dismiss the abuse she received. The argument is always "she had it coming, she trolled 4chan", and those posts are most of the time followed by other comments about how fucking stupid Sarkeesian is for trolling 4chan.

There is no proof that she trolled 4chan.
People are spreading rumors to legitimize or downplay the abuse Sarkeesian received.
That's disingenuous.

If spreading unsubstantiated rumors about a person doesn't bother you, then I don't know what else to say.

Wyvern65 said:
Whether or not she trolled the #E3 and #XBoxOne hashtags yesterday is hardly a matter of conjecture or speculation. She did so quite publicly. The fact that it mirrors the 4chan story is interesting, but perhaps coincidental.

Either she's too naive to understand how social media works - something I refuse to accept given both her educational speciality and her clear intelligence - or she knows throwing chum in the water attracts sharks and is quite sanguine about taking advantage of it.
Trolled? Really? Since the Xbox One reveal in May, people have been bashing Xbox and Microsoft for their anti-consumer business practices, for the design of the console, for the name of the console and for whatever else they can think of. It's been one of the most popular punching bags on these forums and pretty much on any other gaming site for weeks. Posting a negative comment about Xbox One is not automatically trolling. Or do you think any criticism aimed at Xbox One is automatically trolling?

Should she just stop using her social media sites? Is it automatically trolling if she posts something on her twitter? Help me out here.

Wyvern65 said:
In my eyes that makes her an opportunist. Perhaps in your eyes that makes her a hero. [Or should that be heroine? Is that too gendered?]

I wasn't being the least sarcastic when I said feminism deserves better than that.
A hero? Oh come on.
I am going to double post, because I am going to LOL after you watch this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEWIefam53E

She clearly is trolling just watcher facial expression at 5:20.
IF you ever deny it now after this point... well yeah.
Obviously!!!
Obviously she's a troll because look at that facial expression!! Apparently, smirking when an interviewer asks a question about trolls means "OMG guys, she's deceived us all, that troll!!!"
Human body language.
Should look into it some time it's quite a interesting topic.

And it was a smirk. The nervous hair moving, the stuttering after the question. The total bullshit defense she used to defend herself. The awkward tone in her voice. Things like that.

Anita knows what she is doing and she is doing it well.
She's nothing but a hypocrite spewing ***** that is playing the victim card to her advantage.

Because Murica love dem victims!

Seriously if America haven't been obsessed with the "Victim Game" for the past 10 years, or so. She would still be a nobody. That's just a fact.
Yes. Your baseless opinions are facts. Keep telling yourself that.
Don't need to.
Should I bring up Kony 2012?
Amanda Todd?
That Rose girl. (The one with the bad disease.)

So America does really love it's victims.
 

Ikasury

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i'll be honest, i don't get what's with this woman... from what i've seen, and after reading that 'article' (seriously two paragraphs and a bunch of 'troll shots' is an article nowadays? can i get paid for that?) i don't get what just happened other then human stupidity and i'm guessing 'troll logic'...

how i see it, what she said was nothing offensive, demanding or well ANYTHING really, other then an opinion... i wrote a post on twitter that said '*sigh* why aren't there any new games with feMCs~' ya know what would happen? nothing, absolutely nothing... from what i can tell, seeing as most of the 'responses' had nothing to actually DO with her comment, or were just be flagrantly vicious for the sake of being vicious, i can't even call it 'sexist' as it all seems to be designed specifically to PISS HER OFF instead of being, well ANYTHING beyond that... its troll-to-troll artillery from what i'm seeing...

is what's said vile? yes, does it SOUND sexist, yes, is it? i don't honestly think so... its just laser-guided strikes to piss off what i've been hearing and what i've been seeing 'the queen of trolls'... total troll warfare! *snickers* her 'reaction' is only encouraging it and thus the Total-Troll-War continues... and i'm pretty sure, from what i've seen she knows this all too well ---.---

wanna know who would have handled this FABULOUSLY~! George Takei~



that's how you handle trolls without showing how much of a troll you are :3 hail the god-emperor of the internet! XD