This is Why Criticizing Anita Sarkheesian is Irrelevant and Pointless

somonels

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Oct 12, 2010
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What? Is her 'public shaming' of internet users accounts supposed to be a deterrent? Hell no. The internet is a bubbling pot of hate. All she does is play herself as under attack form the dumb irrational patriarchy trying to keep the innocent woman silent and in bondage.
Go to the right place and you get death threats from stating you like Orson Scott Card for his books.

The_Scrivener said:
Wars are how equal rights are won sometimes. So yeah, I'm fine with that.
That and the whole socialist/communist scare from Russia. Putin's oligarchy is up to no good I tells ya. Thought I have no idea how that ties into the representation of females in the games industry/games.
 

GoaThief

Reinventing the Spiel
Feb 2, 2012
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CHUD said:
GoaThief said:
We need to stop giving her attention, she seems to thrive on it.
Hope so, she's certainly getting MY money - this latest storm of Anita-bashing just proves further there is a genuine need for what she's doing.
What genuine need is that?

There were many games featuring female protagonists or strong leads shown at E3. Female gamers too for that matter. Is she actually doing anything at all aside from taking money? What positive change has she caused? Is everything even so wrong in the first place (excluding personal responses to Anita herself)?
 

The Deadpool

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uro vii said:
The Deadpool said:
She complained XBOXONE had no female protagonists, missing the whole Mirror's Edge 2 thing.
No actually, as pointed out before, she specifically said no games with female protagonists were unveiled during Microsoft's presentation, which was correct.
Hashtags are E3 and XboxONE. Word Microsoft isn't even on the tweet.

Also note, tweet was about an hour and a half after EA's presentation...

Again, the trick is making JUST enough of a mistake for detractors to have something to complain, while defenders have something to hold on to...
 
Jul 13, 2010
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The Deadpool said:
Hashtags are E3 and XboxONE. Word Microsoft isn't even on the tweet.

Also note, tweet was about an hour and a half after EA's presentation...

Again, the trick is making JUST enough of a mistake for detractors to have something to complain, while defenders have something to hold on to...
yeah, but she refers to it as the xbox one press conference tweeted after the end of the Micorsoft presentation, I think think it's quite obvious what she was talking about

EDIT: sorry, I mean 'I think' she actually tweeted after the end Microsoft. I can't find the times the presentations started now, but I seem to remember reading her tweet shortly after the Microsoft presentation and while before the EA one, though I may be wrong

EDIT v2: just found it, she actually tweeted half an hour into EA's presentation.
 

SinisterGehe

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As long as she keeps taking things off context without taking in note the background, story, lore and environment of the game and situation - I will criticize the hell out of her.

She has made some good female characters looks like weak weeping flowers "to be rescued" by the hero. When this was not the situation.
She take things off their context. It is not valid method to do anything!!!
 

The Deadpool

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uro vii said:
EDIT v2: just found it, she actually tweeted half an hour into EA's presentation.
Thought EA presentation was at 1pm and her tweet at 2:47...

Like I said, JUST wrong enough...
 

Mikeyfell

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Aug 24, 2010
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The_Scrivener said:
http://femfreq.tumblr.com/post/52673540142/twitter-vs-female-protagonists-in-video-games

She can pretty much film herself juggling fruit in her basement and as long as the title of her video touches on how much sexism there is in the culture, then she has a legitimate point. I don't want to imply that criticism of her points/videos is invalid or unwelcome on all accounts, but breaking down her style of delivery sort of strikes me as imprudent and short-sighted, like trying to find grammatical errors in Martin Luther King's "I Have a Dream Speech."
Did you just compare Anita Sarkeesian to Dr. Martin Luther King?

At least I know now that The_Scrivener is what Anita's Escapist forum handle is.
This thread was enlightening.

I would take it back and pretend I was joking, but honestly Anita, you should really be more subtle while digging your own videos up on line...

Breaking down her style of openly contradicting herself and cherry picking examples that only support her view point, Or that that directly prove the opposite of her viewpoint, and yet she still tries to frame it in a way that furthers her own paranoia?

The Second paragraph of MLK's I Have a Dream speech starts with with a conjunction. So yeah, they are basically the same.

I mean if you look at it, she had to invent a new type of sexism this "collective unconscious sexism" to describe that writers don't want to put the effort into writing original stories or characterize minor supporting characters.

Yes. People attack her. They call her a **** and hope she gets raped. Those attacks are personal though. Those idiots are attacking "her" not "women". They aren't sexist, they just hate Anita Sarkeesian. They might be sexist, That doesn't make it any less of a personal targeted attack. Those people are idiot gamers and internet trolls, not writers, not developers and not publishers.

She's making up a reason to react to something that she doesn't like (That a lot of people don't like, I don't like it) it isn't sexist.
 

Stavros Dimou

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Mar 15, 2011
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SHE IS A BIG TROLL. WHY ARE YOU FEEDING HER ?
She is a pretender,a hypocrite,that makes stuff out of her mind and presents them as facts,and when you are just stating that its all on her mind she calls you a patriarchical hater.
She's been a huge lier and very bad person,and instead of admitting that she is trolling she calls other people chauvinists for their reactions to her big fat lies.
Everybody please lie and pretend the world isn't as it is to make her happy.


This guy nailed her:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25o0EZiogw0
 
Jul 13, 2010
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The Deadpool said:
uro vii said:
EDIT v2: just found it, she actually tweeted half an hour into EA's presentation.
Thought EA presentation was at 1pm and her tweet at 2:47...

Like I said, JUST wrong enough...
According to the site linked on the first page her tweet was at 8:37 pm UTC, which puts it at 1:37 pm PDT while, like you said, the EA presentation was at 1 pm. So no, not wrong at all.
 

spoonybard.hahs

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Apr 24, 2013
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She eventually mentions Mirror's Edge 2 and the female presenter for Bungie a few hours later.

That said, I don't like her. She's schizophrenic when it comes to her mission statement and what she actually says and does. Yes, she is inflammatory. Maybe not on purpose; her delivery and arguments are lazy and clumsy. But you can't deny she gets a happy when she pokes the hornets' nest and posts her "win."

There's a video where she "reviewed" or "critiqued" [http://www.feministfrequency.com/2011/01/kanye-wests-monster-misogyny/] Kanye West's video for his song, "Monster."

She claims this video is an expression of the Drop Dead Gorgeous trope [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DropDeadGorgeous]. The song is actually a condemnation of how rap and hip-hop culture treats women. The dead white women versus monstrous black women is a comment on how society polarizes the gender of either race, and how rap/hip-hop furthers that. Many times throughout the song, West sings, "I am a monster." He is not bragging; he is expressing that he is not okay with this. He is fully aware that he is part of the problem.

Of course, she could be forgiven for not getting that. It's plausible that she knows precisely nothing about rap/hip-hop culture. But that begs the question of why she would even be talking about this in the first place (and also how can someone who talks about pop culture not

know a thing a two about rap). But early in her video, when says how this trope has been popping up a lot lately, she flashes the title graphic for Amanda Palmer's album, Who Killed Amanda Palmer?

For those of you who don't know Amanda Palmer, she's the former lead singer of the Dresden Dolls and current wife of Neil Gaiman.

She's also a feminist and this album is a cornucopia of feminist ideologies.

Sarkeesian tells her audience not to watch the video. To just take her word for it that it's as horrible as she says. I can understand her not wanting to show clips from the video for its explicit nature, but telling others to not watch it smacks of trying to rig the game. She presents a surface level of commentary, not bothering to dig, and then tells others that, "This is misogyny. This is wrong. Just believe me."

This is how she's inflammatory and this is exactly why her arguments in her video game videos are so terribly wrong. Tropes are surface cannon fodder; we can all (hopefully) identify them and (again, hopefully) explain exactly why they are wrong in any context. As we've learned very recently, the problem aren't the tropes. It's the industry and part of the culture. And rather than take the giant leap and analyze the culture itself or the industry, she tackles mundane story telling devices that have been used for centuries. Because it's easy, quick, and everyone regardless of exposure to video games can understand them, she can exploit them and present them as the Big Bad. Do tropes reinforce certain views? Yes. But they also shine a light on where the real problem is.

Regardless of what she says or how she approaches female representation in any medium, she's going to get inundated with trolls and assholes. Close your eyes and run, you'll eventually hit something. However, trolls and assholes do not mean she is right. Admitting you're an atheist or a Catholic in most forums will get you the same treatment.

She's also not a feminist. I'm sorry, but to suggest that segregation as a means to fix any problem immediately negates anything else you have to say.

I apologize for this tome of a post, but I've been needing to get this off my chest for a while now.
 

Wyvern65

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May 29, 2013
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Uhura said:
Wyvern65 said:
Like when she trolled 4chan and left her comment section open just long enough for the trolls to show up and paint her as a martyr.
Do you have any proof that this happened or are you just like every other person who brings this rumor up without any evidence?
I'm well aware it's an unsubstantiated rumor; given the thrust of the rest of my arguments, it's clearly one I'm inclined to believe. Was the 'cynic' part at the start of my post unclear? Or the melodramatic sigh?

Its truth value doesn't have the least thing to do with an argument I've now elaborated over two posts, one which you chose to ignore, I'm not feeling compelled to do much beyond note that you are correct.

I did like the 'just like every other person' part; always nice to be part of a group.

Either address my main point (now made in two posts,) or feel free to ignore me.
 

invadergir

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May 29, 2008
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I'm surprised she didn't tweet about Ellen Page getting punched in the face. Female protagonists who play super agents who get punched in the face is misogyny.

That actually would have been funnier than what she actually did. Which was ignore the game completely.
 

Xanex

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Jun 18, 2012
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Uhura said:
Wyvern65 said:
So no proof then.

@Xanex
How about you? Do you have any proof that she actually trolled 4chan?


If it wasn't her it was someone doing it on her behalf. You could link a video of kittens and puppies on 4chan and get rape and death threats in the comments. Kinda funny how here kickstarter was around for months and got next to no support. But suddenly someone starts posting links in 4chan and the trolls respond. Instant sympathy monies start raking in. So as many others have said(Hell even a clueless CNN reporter). DON'T FEED THE TROLLS!!!
 

Angelblaze

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Jun 17, 2010
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Father Time said:
CHUD said:
generals3 said:
Ahahahahahahaha. She's a joke, "these reactions show the male privilege in the gaming community". It's like she's a cartoon figure. A cartoon damsel in distress at that, she can't help but show how much she's a victim of the ebil internet. Come on white knights rescue the damsel!
Playing the "White Knight Card" already? Sorry, but it's quickly becoming more a badge of honor than a shameful mark.

I mean, regardless of what one thinks of feminism today (relevance, methods, agenda, whatever) - how does exposing genuine sexism in a media, going deeper into the matter than anyone else, and making fairly intelligent arguments about it - make oneself a "cartoony damsel in distress?".

She has more than proven there is a dark, anti-woman side to the industry / fandom. How about adressing that, rather than trying to shame her and those women AND men who agree and support her into silence?
Ok where is the proven anti-woman side to the industry that she's shown.

And complaining that there were no women protagonists in the conference is not sexism it's just complaining that they aren't making games you want to see. It's no different than complaining about a lack of horror games (if there was a lack, I didn't see that conference).
The Remember Me scandal would be a good example. The game developers had to fight to keep the female protagonist. The Jimquisition's talked about this multiple times.

Or the Bioshock infinite cover. They didn't want the main female character on the front cover (although, that was tested so I will concede that one)

Or Last of Us, also wanted the main female character off the cover and put onto the back.

Recent episodes of Jimquisition help everything.

Or you know, some of the comments made about her. Most of them are made purely because she is a woman (I've never seen Glenn Beck or any male Fox news correspondent get rape threats en masse but they spout much more dangerous, terrorist level bullshit)

Honestly, for those of you saying that it's okay for her to get insulted because she just 'doesn't get it', I remember when the Nostalgia Critic didn't seem to get 'Last Action Hero' - go watch the review.

He didn't get rape threats.
He didn't have his video removed.
He certainly doesn't get half as many insults.
And none of them had to do with his gender.

I'm not even going into the topic of this 'feminist agenda' bs. Agenda is just a hot word to add some type of eeeeeeevil mystery bullshit to a group of ideals- you know what? An episode of Billy and Mandy already did that for me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sgv0DVSMB8g
 

maddawg IAJI

I prefer the term "Zomguard"
Feb 12, 2009
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generals3 said:
GladiatorUA said:
I think people are misunderstanding something. She did not feed the trolls. She is the troll. And a good one. Raging and insulting is not trolling. At least it wasn't.
The aim of trolling is to get an inadequate response. And she achieves it with just one message on twitter. Fascinating.
Using all the hate of stupid people to prove her point even more. Smart move.
I don't understand what there is to rage about. For a smart person. She has a point(doesn't mean she is always right), she stirs up the bowels of the internet, and maybe, as a result, we will see less cringe-worthy plots in games. Until I see some negative effects from her activity, I support her idea.
And it's fun to observe internet drama. Especially if she knowingly puts herself in front of the hate train and manages to gain momentum from it.

And it's not like she went for this low-hanging fruit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=P75YQHFnyKY
Not particularly offensive, but fake, tasteless and retarded, considering all of the feminist backlashes of the last 6 months.
But there is a good reason to be against her. Her goal may not be bad but her methods are dangerous for gaming. Do you know who also links RL social issues with games like she does? Jack Thompson did, Hilary Clinton did and so many others who blame video games for RL violence. If we support Anita we de facto support all those other people who attacked video games based on the idea it has a crappy effect on RL attitudes. This is why by supporting Anita you're supporting anti-gaming attitudes. Hence why gamers who support her are traitors. They're betraying their community and hobby, why? Because of some White Knight attitude or egoism.
I'm calling bullshit on that one mate, largely because there is evidence that video games does have an effect on attitudes, but also because what you're arguing goes against EVERYTHING video gamers have been doing for the past 5 years.

Video Games are an art form and like any other art form, they're required to effect the observer in some way and evoke emotion and thought. That is what art is, they effect personalities and ways of thinking. What you're defending isn't art. What you're defending is just a hobby and nothing more.

Do I agree with Anita on all of her arguments? Of course not, but I do recognize that there is a problem within the industry regarding the place of Female characters and you'd be blind not to realize that hardcore gaming is a male dominated thing. But after what you just said, you have the audacity to call me the traitor for agreeing on a few points?

That is something that a lot of people aren't realizing here. You can like something and still recognize its flaws and work to fix those flaws.
 

Uhura

This ain't no hula!
Aug 30, 2012
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@Xanex

So you don't have any proof that it was her. It could have been her friend or someone who hated her or just some random bored person or Santa or...

According to the Kicktracker data, her project had reached the funding goal already during the first 2 days of the fundraising. In fact, on the day before that 4chan discussion you posted, the Trope Kickstarter had already raised 43k. So "next to no support" is not true.

http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/566429325/tropes-vs-women-in-video-games/#chart-daily
 
May 10, 2013
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http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/5/56858/1302389-1246890_haruhi___not_this_shit_again_super.jpg
And with that i'm done.
I'm done, i can't take it anymore and i don't want to. As far as i can see, this will never go anywhere. Because as long as people like Anita sit and complain instead of taking ACTUAL action then we'll remain here in this painful Leftist Circle Jerk. We will always blur the lines between what is offensive and what is being taken out of context because there isn't even a line to establish. If you want someone to stop kicking you in the stomach then you need to break their leg, you DO NOT politely ask that they stop as they continue to. It's just as well either way, Anita has never been one to actually want change, she just sits there and complains, which is a pretty bad look for actual feminists who want to change things. I no longer care about her poorly fleshed arguments because they're are all things you could explain to a 5th Grader and they could understand. Call me when the feminists make a move as big as Fat, Ugly, & Slutty or when more Black Men as Protagonists show up and then we can talk.
http://bbsimg.ngfiles.com/1/24180000/ngbbs503823d293964.jpg