To anyone who thinks piracy is ok

[bob1052]

large corporations are evil, there only goal is to suck every last penny out of you. pirates are people who share media, sharing is a concept known as 'socialism' big capitalist corporations dont like socialism

I think Valve begs to differ. It may be socialist, but that is no excuse to pirate. If you're being serious, please look at your argument again.

I found an article, its 10 pages long, but is the most in depth look at piracy i have ever seen.
He takes a very unbiased look at it, and i plead to anyone who still pirates games to go read it.

http://www.tweakguides.com/Piracy_1.html

Yet computer game companies treat there entire fan base like criminals, with unworkable anti-piracy software built in, which makes it impossible to sell on via EBgames refurbished games system, which means the games i want are not sold on PC at games stores (best example of this is the new Transformers Game which EBGames has on every concsole system including the DS, but not on PC... Anywhere in the state, with no intention of purchasing it).

So to all you computer game designers, stop treating your entire fan base like criminals & maybe you'll stop forcing them to be criminals.

Also how about bringing out a Demo or two... Because theres nothing worse then spending $100 on a brand new game, only to find out it clashes with Windows 7, or your graphics card, or some other glitch so wont install or fails to run.

In all this its the consumer whose the victim, not the giant company racking in the money.

-M

p.s I dont pirate games, but i can see why i would.

I understand where you are coming from, but if the PC Devs didn't do all those things, the pirates would have their way much more easily. Better be safe than sorry.

So it's safe to say that devs are more interesting in fighting pirates than they are in pleasing their customers? That might be why so many people think that quality of games is decreasing.

Believe it or not, developers are a thing called businesses. If you honestly think your enjoyment is their number one concern then you are quite wrong.

Also maybe the reason why people think that quality of games is decreasing is because people aren't paying for the game to support the developer.

Yeah you just keep believing that.

This is the only industry where the low quality of games is blamed on the consumer.

What about the restaurant industry? They blame the low quality of their games on the consumer.

 

[Spectre39]

I don't pirate. I Gamefly. Whenever they run out of games I want, or I run out of cash I'll quit. Though with how many titles I've played, and only paid for about 4 months of service (with the two disc deal is about $23/mo) I'm not even close to breaking the bank like I would have if I bought them. If that's hurting the games industry, all I have to say is cry some more.

 

[bob1052]

large corporations are evil, there only goal is to suck every last penny out of you. pirates are people who share media, sharing is a concept known as 'socialism' big capitalist corporations dont like socialism

I think Valve begs to differ. It may be socialist, but that is no excuse to pirate. If you're being serious, please look at your argument again.

I found an article, its 10 pages long, but is the most in depth look at piracy i have ever seen.
He takes a very unbiased look at it, and i plead to anyone who still pirates games to go read it.

http://www.tweakguides.com/Piracy_1.html

Yet computer game companies treat there entire fan base like criminals, with unworkable anti-piracy software built in, which makes it impossible to sell on via EBgames refurbished games system, which means the games i want are not sold on PC at games stores (best example of this is the new Transformers Game which EBGames has on every concsole system including the DS, but not on PC... Anywhere in the state, with no intention of purchasing it).

So to all you computer game designers, stop treating your entire fan base like criminals & maybe you'll stop forcing them to be criminals.

Also how about bringing out a Demo or two... Because theres nothing worse then spending $100 on a brand new game, only to find out it clashes with Windows 7, or your graphics card, or some other glitch so wont install or fails to run.

In all this its the consumer whose the victim, not the giant company racking in the money.

-M

p.s I dont pirate games, but i can see why i would.

I understand where you are coming from, but if the PC Devs didn't do all those things, the pirates would have their way much more easily. Better be safe than sorry.

So it's safe to say that devs are more interesting in fighting pirates than they are in pleasing their customers? That might be why so many people think that quality of games is decreasing.

Believe it or not, developers are a thing called businesses. If you honestly think your enjoyment is their number one concern then you are quite wrong.

Also maybe the reason why people think that quality of games is decreasing is because people aren't paying for the game to support the developer.

Yeah you just keep believing that.

This is the only industry where the low quality of games is blamed on the consumer.

What about the restaurant industry? They blame the low quality of their games on the consumer.

Don't follow.

Making a comment that only applies to the gaming industry, and then saying that it only applies to the gaming industry is silly.

 

[Dastardly]

After all is said and done the majority of games are overpriced shite. Bought titan quest on steam recently for £2.50. That's a fair price for what I'm getting. 40 quid for fallout new vegas? Who's going to pay that? That's mental. A fiver. That's a fair price.

And THIS is the problem.

You see, Titan Quest is approximately 300 hours of hack and slash dungeon crawling. That's worth more then four dollars. That's really worth forty dollars, or more. If you seriously think 300+ hours isn't worth five bucks, then you're a miser, plain and simple.

Think of it this way: Imagine you buy Fallout New Vegas and play it for 100 hours (quite possible). How much money do you make per hour of work? Go ahead, knock off all your non-entertainment expenses, including savings. Let's imagine you have 50 cents extra per hour (and I beg you to cut your expenses somehow if that's ALL you have). If you had 50 cents per hour left over to spend on yourself, then Fallout would be worth $50, a little bit less then what it is being sold for according to you.

Seriously, you come off as stingy and desperate. You're better then that.

It's only 300 hours worth of gameplay if you like it enough to play that long.

And my car can only go 200 mph if I find somewhere it's legal and can get enough straight road, yet it's a major selling point of the car. I don't get to make a pledge to "only go 55 mph" and pay less for the car.

You don't get to use the, "I didn't like it enough to play 300 hours" excuse to pay less for the game. You've gotten the entire game, whether you choose to use it or not. If you can't afford it or don't want to afford it, then there is no reason that you should ever have it.

What they choose to advertise has nothing to do with the price. I can ignore "200 MPH" because I know I won't be driving it that fast and if the car is still worth the price (minus that ignorant selling point) then I might buy it.

Again though, this isn't about what is advertised. It isn't like they are promising that by buying the car you CAN LEGALLY go 200 MPH just like the game isn't promising 300 hours of gameplay per player.

It's still true that someone who dislikes the game will not play for 300 hours so any equation to determine "per hour worth" will have to change per person. Besides that, what takes you 300 hours may take another 100 hours and another 500 hours. I can't believe we are even talking about something as subjective as advertised hours of gameplay. It's about as stupid as talking about how long it takes to eat a Big Mac.

You're missing the point so badly I might just as well post an eye exam chart.

When we sell food, we put "servings per container" on the box. This is for TWO reasons--one, for ease of reporting nutritional information per serving, and two, for providing a reasonably objective metric for how much you're getting per purchase. Yes, it's up to me how many "servings" are in MY container, but I should also be intelligent and self-aware enough to know if I'm eating faster than the average consumer, so I already know how that reported "serving size" relates to me, personally.

(Of course, this is only speaking from the perspective of an INFORMED consumer--the only sort that really has any business debating such topics as informed consumption. Your mileage, like your serving size, may vary.)

A company can't just put "Tons of gameplay!" on the box. They can't just put "This game has lots of stuff!" or "Man, what a great game!" either. Not because it's self-serving, but rather because that carries with it NO meaningful measure of anything. It's like how games used to advertise "Over 11 levels of gameplay!"--people caught on to games with throw-away, ten-second levels.

So, to put something on the box that at least provides SOME objective measure of "how much game" you're getting, they put an estimate of gameplay hours. Really, they don't have to. They could just say, "Hey, we've got 90 weapons and 400 hats!" and leave you to discover that's just for character creation, and the rest of the game is ten minutes of hallways. But they do it to provide an estimate, so that players can make a more informed decision about the value of the game.

Each player learns, over time, if they play super fast, super slow, or about average speed. They know if they chew through game content like M&Ms, or if they savor it like a well-aged filet. So they know if "30 hours of gameplay!" is really more like 15, or 50, for them. It's just awfully nice of the publishes to put that measuring stick on the box so you at least have half a clue. Same damn thing as serving size--an estimate, so you can make informed choices about a product you can't FULLY judge until you've already bought it beyond hope of return.

So it all comes back to something very basic--if you don't feel a game is worth $50, don't pay $50 for it. Wait until they sell it for $5 or something. That's entirely your right as a consumer to wait until the price matches what YOU perceive to be the value of the game.

If you make a bad purchase at some point, welcome to a little club we like to call "EVERY DAMN PERSON EVER." We like to meet up every other Tuesday night and GET OVER IT. And then we share our experiences, learn from our mistakes, and do less of the same in the future. It's glorious.

 

[zombiesinc]

I buy all my games new because I can afford to, but I certainly can understand a lot of people choosing to buy used.

I'm really tired of people claiming "a game isn't worth the money" or "I got ripped off, the game's shit" to justify piracy... that's why they invented demos and rentals (that is obviously more directed towards console gamers). If you're gonna do it, quit trying to justify it and just bloody well do it.

 

[chinangel]

I don't think piracy is alright, but I stopped giving a shit when the developers stopped developing the games half way through.

this.

 

[bob1052]

large corporations are evil, there only goal is to suck every last penny out of you. pirates are people who share media, sharing is a concept known as 'socialism' big capitalist corporations dont like socialism

I think Valve begs to differ. It may be socialist, but that is no excuse to pirate. If you're being serious, please look at your argument again.

I found an article, its 10 pages long, but is the most in depth look at piracy i have ever seen.
He takes a very unbiased look at it, and i plead to anyone who still pirates games to go read it.

http://www.tweakguides.com/Piracy_1.html

Yet computer game companies treat there entire fan base like criminals, with unworkable anti-piracy software built in, which makes it impossible to sell on via EBgames refurbished games system, which means the games i want are not sold on PC at games stores (best example of this is the new Transformers Game which EBGames has on every concsole system including the DS, but not on PC... Anywhere in the state, with no intention of purchasing it).

So to all you computer game designers, stop treating your entire fan base like criminals & maybe you'll stop forcing them to be criminals.

Also how about bringing out a Demo or two... Because theres nothing worse then spending $100 on a brand new game, only to find out it clashes with Windows 7, or your graphics card, or some other glitch so wont install or fails to run.

In all this its the consumer whose the victim, not the giant company racking in the money.

-M

p.s I dont pirate games, but i can see why i would.

I understand where you are coming from, but if the PC Devs didn't do all those things, the pirates would have their way much more easily. Better be safe than sorry.

So it's safe to say that devs are more interesting in fighting pirates than they are in pleasing their customers? That might be why so many people think that quality of games is decreasing.

Believe it or not, developers are a thing called businesses. If you honestly think your enjoyment is their number one concern then you are quite wrong.

Also maybe the reason why people think that quality of games is decreasing is because people aren't paying for the game to support the developer.

Yeah you just keep believing that.

This is the only industry where the low quality of games is blamed on the consumer.

What about the restaurant industry? They blame the low quality of their games on the consumer.

Don't follow.

Making a comment that only applies to the gaming industry, and then saying that it only applies to the gaming industry is silly.

Ok, let me rephrase that.

The game industry is the only industry that blames consumers for low quality products.

The game industry is the only industry where a significant amount of the consumers feel entitled to steal the product for free.

 

[Dastardly]

What happens next is that people buy it.

False. The best games get pirated the most. That's why people want them--because they're good. Look at the damned numbers, instead of just spouting speculation. The piracy rates (going by available torrents, total downloads, as reported by the torrent sites themselves) are WAAAAAY higher among good games.

I remember EA advertising that DAO had no DRM

Anecdotal evidence + bullshit. You bought the game because you wanted the game. You didn't buy it "because it didn't have DRM." That's like someone claiming the buy food because the package says it doesn't have glass in it--they bought the food because they WANTED IT, and the reason they're stating is just a poorly-shrouded attempt to use a disingenuous claim to prove a shitty point.

In fact, the games with the worst DRM have been pirated the worst, remember Spore?

Yep. Remember World of Goo and Demigod? Two great games, by all published accounts. No DRM. Low price points, created by indie developers... and both with a 90% piracy rate. That means the game was good enough that a bajillion people wanted it, but 90% of them decided that "no DRM" meant "Go ahead and take it for free!"

The claims you're making don't stand up to the evidence. It's like someone claiming gravity is bogus and stupid and imaginary, simply because they don't like how it made them fall of their bike once. It doesn't stand up to evidence and it just makes them look whiny.

You know what has changed? They have gotten greedier and are using every excuse they can (piracy, used game sales, rentals) to justify their greed.

Know what would really teach them a lesson? Don't buy or play their games. Find a hobby you can afford, and that you wish to pay for. Or find one that is legitimately free. And eventually, when their wallets run dry, they'll come around to sing your tune. But that's the only lesson you can teach them. Stealing their stuff only MAKES them exactly right about you.

 

[Signa]

I don't think anyone in their right mind would necessarily say that piracy is OK, but I will say that there is a ton of misinformation that gets spread around by those who have a vested interest in holding tight control over whatever material they may own (and I don't mean individual artist here, I generally mean the big players like record labels or game companies or whatever). This isn't about economics or lost sales, but about control. Companies have lost it to a degree and that makes them nervous so they want it back.

People on either side, those who say "pirate everything" and those who say "piracy is theft and all pirates need to burn in hell" or whatever, both contribute absolutely nothing to the discussion and generally have a severe lack of understanding about copyright and the nature of media products in general.

You're the first person in 4 pages I really want to hug.

Also, one thing that the anti-pirates keep repeating ad nauseum is "if you didn't like the game, why did you bother stealing it!?"

Lets set the record straight here.

To those who have said that line, can you say that you never have seen a product of any sort that interested you, but when you saw the price tag, you lost all interest? A pirate realizes that they can try that product risk free and find out if it is genuinely a piece of crap, or on the off chance end up loving it. Publishers are asking customers like these pirates to gamble $50-$60 on these games that look like they could be fun, but only a hands-on experience will reveal the truth to that individual. How the hell are they supposed to know they are going to hate it if they don't try it first?!

As consumers, we aren't stupid. Have you ever seen a movie trailer that looks full of awesome action and yet something just doesn't feel right about it? I remember when Catwoman came out that I thought the trailer looked pretty badass, but something just stank. I couldn't put my finger on it. Lo and behold, the movie came out and people thought it was shit. I fucking called it, but I had no substantial evidence to warn away anyone before hand. A pirate in my position regarding that movie would easily be able to see the movie (or hopefully only part of it) and find out it's shit without spending a dime on it to confirm his suspicions. On the other hand, if that pirate was this one customer I had while working retail, he would buy the shit out of all Catwoman related merchandise. He was raving up and down how much he loved that movie while buying the PS2 game of it. Theoretically, piracy could have sold not only the movie to him, but also extra merchandise. If he had the same misgivings about the movie, and then loved it, it only helped the movie do better than hurt it. After all, had I gone to see the movie, paid my money for it, and then felt cheated, I'm certainly not going to be nice to it when talking about it to other people. This guy could have loved it and raved about it to the uninformed causing more sales.

Bottom line that I know a lot of people are going to jump on this post for is all the hypotheticals. When it comes to the issue of piracy, it's ALL hypothetical. The sales, the lost sales, the people who wouldn't pay a dime of anything ever, nothing is clear, and it all relies on faith in what you believe is closest to the truth. I believe that the greater majority of pirates whom aren't rampant freeloaders still buy their products they love. Others whom I'm addressing obviously believe that all pirates are freeloaders and their actions cause all sorts of bad things to happen.

There is truth in both sides, but who should you believe when they confess to you: A) The pirate whom says they will buy the things they like or B) the publisher whom says they are dying because of rampant piracy? I choose A, because they have nothing to lose or gain by stating so. B's perspective is completely agenda driven.

 

[bob1052]

large corporations are evil, there only goal is to suck every last penny out of you. pirates are people who share media, sharing is a concept known as 'socialism' big capitalist corporations dont like socialism

I think Valve begs to differ. It may be socialist, but that is no excuse to pirate. If you're being serious, please look at your argument again.

I found an article, its 10 pages long, but is the most in depth look at piracy i have ever seen.
He takes a very unbiased look at it, and i plead to anyone who still pirates games to go read it.

http://www.tweakguides.com/Piracy_1.html

Yet computer game companies treat there entire fan base like criminals, with unworkable anti-piracy software built in, which makes it impossible to sell on via EBgames refurbished games system, which means the games i want are not sold on PC at games stores (best example of this is the new Transformers Game which EBGames has on every concsole system including the DS, but not on PC... Anywhere in the state, with no intention of purchasing it).

So to all you computer game designers, stop treating your entire fan base like criminals & maybe you'll stop forcing them to be criminals.

Also how about bringing out a Demo or two... Because theres nothing worse then spending $100 on a brand new game, only to find out it clashes with Windows 7, or your graphics card, or some other glitch so wont install or fails to run.

In all this its the consumer whose the victim, not the giant company racking in the money.

-M

p.s I dont pirate games, but i can see why i would.

I understand where you are coming from, but if the PC Devs didn't do all those things, the pirates would have their way much more easily. Better be safe than sorry.

So it's safe to say that devs are more interesting in fighting pirates than they are in pleasing their customers? That might be why so many people think that quality of games is decreasing.

Believe it or not, developers are a thing called businesses. If you honestly think your enjoyment is their number one concern then you are quite wrong.

Also maybe the reason why people think that quality of games is decreasing is because people aren't paying for the game to support the developer.

Yeah you just keep believing that.

This is the only industry where the low quality of games is blamed on the consumer.

What about the restaurant industry? They blame the low quality of their games on the consumer.

Don't follow.

Making a comment that only applies to the gaming industry, and then saying that it only applies to the gaming industry is silly.

Ok, let me rephrase that.

The game industry is the only industry that blames consumers for low quality products.

The game industry is the only industry where a significant amount of the consumers feel entitled to steal the product for free.

Copy Steal, we explained this.

No, someone worked hard to create a product with intent to sell it. You are taking what they made without paying for it, thus reducing their profits. That is illegal.

Whether that product is material or immaterial is irrelevant.

 

[Mahha]

I tend to look at piracy more from a perspective of test drive. I would never buy a car just by looking at it, I would naturally take it for a test drive... same thing with games. I pirate to check if the game is worth my money and if it is I go out and buy. Is that so wrong? They should probably implement a sort of 30 day free trial thing on all games and after that you buy or not, because frankly most titles released nowadays aren't worth the money they want for them.

 

[Shadow-Phoenix]

If they started pricing right I wouldn't consider piracy. 60$ for medal of honor? 50$ for front mission evo? 40$ for dead rising 2? These games are not worth the price, and I've gotten ripped off way to many times. Oh and for anyone who says "you can wait for the prices to drop" take a look at CoD MW 2. Still 60$ after about 2 years, and it's only half as good as CoD 4. Price them reasonably and sure I'd buy it. The only time I wouldn't pirate ever would be for companies just starting.

Thats pretty much why i get annoyed at the pricing here in the UK too.

 

[zombiesinc]

So are you ok with people pirating PC games that don't have a demo?

I'm indifferent to people who pirate in general, I'm just tired of people complaining about something that they choose to do, and is easily avoidable.

Tired of paying $60-80 for a game? Well, why not rent it for $8, and see if it's worth the $60-80. Then, and only then does someone really have a valid reason to complain about getting 'screwed over'. People buy into the hype, and then play the victim when a game doesn't live up to that hype. It's like they expect the amount of publicity to be a decent measure of the games worth...

Now, obviously this doesn't go for everyone, but there's a fair number of people out there that do this on a regular basis. It's irritating.

 

[Dastardly]

Pfft, piracy is fine.
It's a testament to the selfless nature that some people can exhibit.
All the stuff about it destroying industry is just boo-hoo from the publishers cos they aren't making the money they want to each quarter. So what? Produce a decent enough game to get people to buy it so they'll support you in the future instead of ripping your game off. Would you really buy a game from a company that has let you down again and again, or would you rather get a hold of it for free to give it a test run? That being said if you really wanted a game would you rather pirate it or buy it? If you REALLY wanted it... enough to say... buy it?!

Oh and btw, check your sources. I don't think ANY company wants to get the eye for being pro-piracy... ANY, especially a po-dunk like tweakguides.com! So saying that's unbiased is wrong.

If piracy has taught me anything, it's that people will believe anything is bad as long as its shoved in their face with a big sign saying it is and a rockin' tune that just makes them want to obey the law! It's that side of it that makes me lose almost all faith in humans... dumb animals.

Someone get this li'l nipper a medal! He's just so selfless in his giving of other people's stuff. There is just absolutely no evidence to support your claim that people who pirate a game to "give it a test run," and find they enjoy it, then turn around and pay money for a game they ALREADY HAVE. Oh, and then surely they'll turn around and buy the sequel after getting the first game for free with no consequences!

That'd be like thinking ANYONE, ANYWHERE goes to a deli, gets a sandwich, and then loves that sandwich so much they go "Holy balls! You--deli guy--I'd like to pay for this sandwich AGAIN it was just so great!"

(And before you try to pull the "Ah, but free samples make people buy the product!" game, let's recall that free samples give you a SMALL TASTE of the product in order to entice you to buy the full version. And promos that give you a free meal with a coupon? Limited time only.

The "free sample" provided by piracy is the ENTIRE GAME. And then it's always available, for free, anytime you like. There is no enticement whatsoever for these people to turn around and become paying contributors--they got it all for free, so why go back and pay now? They know full well the company will make another (thanks to those saps foolish enough to BUY the game, har har), and they can just yoink that one, too.

Nothing you say stands up to the statistical evidence, or even basic human psychology. It's the kind of logic you only find on an extra 21st chromosome.