Trump assassination attempt

Silvanus

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But you don't say that, and you can't without giving up on the argument that "gender affirming care" is lifesaving medicine.
Data indicates that it is. Gender affirming care, including transition, leads to improvement in quality-of-life indicators and a reduction in self-harm. Whereas your approach-- denial, proscription and repression-- has a long track record of the opposite, driving suicide and misery. You're talking horseshit, and you have no actual interest in the wellbeing of these people; you're using it as a veil to hide religious/political prejudice and personal dislike of people who aren't like you.
 

Xprimentyl

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Transgenderism is the threat to your friends lives here. It encourages people to ritually kill off their former identity to define themselves by terms which have no allowable social definition, leading inevitably to nihilism and despair.
This might be the singular most horrible thing I've read on these forums. To quote Stephen A. Smith: "the audacity, the temerity, the unmitigated gall" to attempt to pass off your complete and total lack of awareness of other's life experience as complete awareness and an innate understanding of their situation and how it's ultimately their problem is fucking disgusting. Check yourself; your chosen political/ideological leanings give you no expertise in the matters of the myriad immutable human conditions which have existed since long before there were parties lines.

TL;DR? Shut the fuck up about other people's shoes until you've walked in them.
 

tstorm823

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Data indicates that it is. Gender affirming care, including transition, leads to improvement in quality-of-life indicators and a reduction in self-harm. Whereas your approach-- denial, proscription and repression-- has a long track record of the opposite, driving suicide and misery. You're talking horseshit, and you have no actual interest in the wellbeing of these people; you're using it as a veil to hide religious/political prejudice and personal dislike of people who aren't like you.
We have had this argument, you are wrong. You unironically point to people in the past who acted like people today without realizing those people a) didn't even describe themselves the way people are now and b) weren't killing themselves over it.

You say there is a long track record, show it. If trans people have always existed and not expressing it leads to suicide, why do trans identifying people and suicidality correlate positively? Where is the record of repressed people all killing themselves for centuries?

You are lying about data that doesn't exist to defend supporting a mass psychosis event killing people and ruining their lives.
TL;DR? Shut the fuck up about other people's shoes until you've walked in them.
No, you all spread beliefs that encourage and propagate self-harm, and think it's progress only because it challenges the status quo. You all need to see the horrors you defend.
 

Xprimentyl

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No, you all spread beliefs that encourage and propagate self-harm, and think it's progress only because it challenges the status quo. You all need to see the horrors you defend.
Yeah, let's deny the tales of people who've transitioned or identified as other than what their birth certificate mandated and been, finally, perfectly happy, and focus on how the government should have the right to deny them that and equal rights because conservatives who don't understand don't think they should have the rights to their individual happiness. Fuck off. Self-harm is living in a constant state of misery because people like YOU who have no idea feel the need to legislate what rights and privileges others should be afforded when they don't align with what people like YOU think they should.

Funny how conservatives want small government until they can use big government to stamp out something they don't like.
 

BrawlMan

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crimson5pheonix

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Trump accusing Bukele of just exporting his problems to look good. Bukele being a right wing darling up until now.

Trump's argument is dumb, but the idea of Bukele just locking everyone up and it working has always been fishy to me.
 
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Silvanus

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We have had this argument, you are wrong. You unironically point to people in the past who acted like people today without realizing those people a) didn't even describe themselves the way people are now and b) weren't killing themselves over it.
The historical existence of gender as a distinct characteristic from sex isn't even relevant to the point I made there.

You say there is a long track record, show it. If trans people have always existed and not expressing it leads to suicide, why do trans identifying people and suicidality correlate positively? Where is the record of repressed people all killing themselves for centuries?
Firstly, you're asking why a population that's subject to violent prejudice and legal discrimination have a higher suicide rate?

Here is data pointing to a huge decrease in mental distress and suicidal ideation for those who go through affirming care. Here's another overview.

And if you want evidence for the devastating failure and cruelty of pressuring people to suppress their own identities and forcing them to conform, I suggest you look at the suicides and self-harm associated with conversion "therapy" centres.

You are lying about data that doesn't exist to defend supporting a mass psychosis event killing people and ruining their lives.
The lack of self-awareness here is incredible: to complain that data "doesn't exist" for my position, and then to come out with such a hysterical claim like that for which you can provide zero evidence whatsoever.

You're guided by iron-age superstition and claiming others are experiencing "mass psychosis" for not indulging the same rancid prejudice as you.
 

Bedinsis

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Transgenderism is the threat to your friends lives here. It encourages people to ritually kill off their former identity to define themselves by terms which have no allowable social definition, leading inevitably to nihilism and despair.
Could you elaborate on this?

Edit: I just realized I should probably keep this on topic. Apparently the perpetrator did it to gain fame. For that reason, let's try to erase Mr. Tinydick's name from our consciousness. Not doing it would give him exactly what he wanted.
 

Phoenixmgs

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Getting shot in the 👂 made the biatch all humbled now. This will last for about a week. Or two and then it's back to work as usual.

Example of politics as a religion. It'll also be a week or 2 until the democrats call Trump a threat to democracy and fascist again. Neither side cares about uniting people because none of them want that. You should point out every time it happens vs just when the other side does it.
 

tstorm823

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And if you want evidence for the devastating failure and cruelty of pressuring people to suppress their own identities and forcing them to conform, I suggest you look at the suicides and self-harm associated with conversion "therapy" centres.
You are advocating for the same thing. You are advocating for the same thing.

You are advocating for the same thing.

Trying to suppress people's self-image that doesn't align with social expectations of their body is one side of a coin. Drugging people to try to make the social expectations associated with their body match their self image is just the other side. Both sides of the coin are solutions to an imaginary problem, both are going to destroy the person. The idea that a certain body needs to feel a certain way is the issue, and no attempt to fix an imaginary problem will ever find good results.

You bring cool with restructuring someone's body is not better than people trying to therapy away their behaviors. You're destroying people for not cleanly fitting in your nonsense view of the world.
 

tstorm823

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Could you elaborate on this?
In lefty world right now, you can identify as a bunch of things and define them by your own perspective. But if someone else identifies as the same thing, they are equally right, even if it is flatly contradictory. This, you can define yourself, but you can't actually tie it to anyone else. There cannot be a socially accepted definition of a woman, because any definition would deny others the right of self-determination. So now those words mean nothing, which in many ways was always the case, knowing a person is a women should say very little about who they are, but if you've committed the larger portion of your identity, potentially even restructuring your genitals to match, that identity having no clear meaning and no firm connection to others means your self-image is unstable at best. Imagine rearranging your whole life and your personal relationships to identify as a single word and then waking up one day to realize the word means nothing.
 

dreng3

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As soon as anyone uses the term transgernderism they've proved, beyond a doubt, that they aren't worth debating. I'd consider it the modern version of lebensraum, a term solely dedicated to justifying horrendous acts and to support even worse people.
 

tstorm823

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As soon as anyone uses the term transgernderism they've proved, beyond a doubt, that they aren't worth debating. I'd consider it the modern version of lebensraum, a term solely dedicated to justifying horrendous acts and to support even worse people.
People like to reference the "right side of history". You all are going down in history with the phrenologists.
 

Silvanus

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Trying to suppress people's self-image that doesn't align with social expectations of their body is one side of a coin. Drugging people to try to make the social expectations associated with their body match their self image is just the other side.
That's not what gender affirmation is. It doesn't surprise me that you don't even grasp the basics of what the care involves or what it's for. You are the only person here involved in forcing people to fit an external social expectation.

Both sides of the coin are solutions to an imaginary problem, both are going to destroy the person. The idea that a certain body needs to feel a certain way is the issue, and no attempt to fix an imaginary problem will ever find good results.
And yet we've already seen data & research showing gender affirmation improves wellbeing and reduces self-harm. So they do have good results.

You can insist its an "imaginary problem", but the community itself and the experts in the field disagree. I see no reason to trust you over them-- particularly when it's so crystal clear that you're not being guided by genuine concern for the people, but rather by superstition and personal dislike.
 

tstorm823

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And yet we've already seen data & research showing gender affirmation improves wellbeing and reduces self-harm. So they do have good results.
You do not have that. You have short term self-reported data with no control to compare to. "We asked people who made major life changes if they think they made a terrible mistake, and they mostly said no" isn't data and research.