UK Defense Secretary Calls for Medal of Honor Ban

[szaleniec1000]

Are there any westerners that value the lives of those people who serve in defense of their country? Or are you too busy eating cheetos and drinking coke to care about people who have the balls to their put their ass on the line for your ignorant benefit.

Whether you believe or not that the Afghan mission is a good one, it doesn't change the fact that the people fighting over there are doing so because they wanted to serve their country.

And guess what? The game is going to change jack shit. Nobody on either side is going to be killed as a result of someone playing a game.

It's called respect buddy and about having an ounce of it for other people. Never mind this newest game, a lot of people on these forums probably have ancestors who fought in world war 2. What do you think their reaction would be to all these ultra-realistic WW2 shooters that everyone's playing?

Who here has a grandfather that fought in WW2? And if he is still alive, would you demonstrate playing a game that displayed WW2 infantry combat in a realistic fashion?

Have you actually surveyed people's opinions, or are you just presuming you have the authority to speak for them? Because that doesn't sound very respectful to me. This is anecdotal I know, but the only complaint I've heard from a WW2 veteran about shooters is that they depicted the loading action of the guns wrong. I could also point to the popularity of shooters like Modern Warfare among today's serving military personnel, but as your opinion doesn't seem to be backed up by anything concrete I don't know how much good that would do.

 

[Something Amyss]

Good to know nationalism's not just for the US. Though I still can't say I understand this whole "Un-(insert nation here)" Crap as it pertains to video games.

 

[szaleniec1000]

It's called respect buddy and about having an ounce of it for other people. Never mind this newest game, a lot of people on these forums probably have ancestors who fought in world war 2. What do you think their reaction would be to all these ultra-realistic WW2 shooters that everyone's playing?

Who here has a grandfather that fought in WW2? And if he is still alive, would you demonstrate playing a game that displayed WW2 infantry combat in a realistic fashion?

Have you actually surveyed people's opinions, or are you just presuming you have the authority to speak for them? Because that doesn't sound very respectful to me. This is anecdotal I know, but the only complaint I've heard from a WW2 veteran about shooters is that they depicted the loading action of the guns wrong. I could also point to the popularity of shooters like Modern Warfare among today's serving military personnel, but as your opinion doesn't seem to be backed up by anything concrete I don't know how much good that would do.

Is your opinion backed up by anything concrete other than alleged facts or impressions of yours? Define popularity among serving military personal? Did someone conduct a poll? Did soldiers who lost friends to insurgent forces then enjoy playing games where they themselves fought as insurgents against the coalition? I do have numerous friends who've said to me that they for example have enjoyed a game but they're not sure how their grandfather would view them playing it. As their grandfather served in the war, saw combat, and in all the time since then won't say a word about their experiences.

I know that my parents, who did not serve in the war but lived through it, would not view me favourably if they saw me playing the airport scene in MW2 or saw me playing as one of the Axis forces in another game. And I can't say I'd blame them.

My anecdotal evidence is just as anecdotal as yours, and I never claimed otherwise. ETA: Though I'd have to point out the real-life military personnel who actually work for the games companies in an advisory role with these games.

Ebert's right in some respects, most Games will never be Art because most mainstream games don't educate.

I'm with you to an extent. I don't play a lot of mainstream shooters because they bore me. That doesn't mean I think everyone who does is an ignorant dick.

Maybe a bit more than that, but has anyone who's played a WW2 game learned anything about that war other than the names of what guns they use?

Depends on the game, really. Not every WW2 game falls into - well, watch Yahtzee's review of I think one of the previous MoH games - though I'll admit a lot do.

The point is this whole story is brought about because a Politician actually gives a damn about the people who elected him and about the soldiers under his command who are dying every day in the service to his country.

No he doesn't. He cares about getting his name in the paper. If he cared about his constituents and the military he wouldn't be wasting time mouthing off about a video game. As you say yourself, it's not like games are important in the grand scheme of things.

 

[sheah1]

Maybe the united states should have not killed lots of people by staying out of world war 2, but then again doesnt the uk exist today and the rest of the semi free europe exist today because us americans took back what germany conquered twice in one generation?? Lets not forget the millions that were slain from the english empire for more than thousands of years. So go ahead and bash us americans for securing your freedoms twice. I will say that france played a big part in our revolution from ofcourse the english who controlled the world. Dont lecture us on killing when the english history is even darker than ours.

I try not to insult people over the internet, but you're acting like a stereotypical "American" with that comment. Also, Russia saved everyone during WWII. We all just helped THEM win the war.

I kind of agree with you. If anyone wants to be angry at this game because they think it's being exploitative of a real war that is currently happening, then that's fine by me. It's the idea that playing as a member of Taliban shooting British and US soldiers is bad, but the other way round is fine, which seems a very black and white mentality to me. The idea that the Taliban are 'The Bad Guys' and as such it's okay to dehumanise them.

Were did it say playing a British or US soldier and shooting the Taliban was good though? It could be argued that it's an insensitivity to both sides. Again, Opfor in CoD is a make believe organisation, the Taliban are very real.

Having said that, i doubt i'll buy it because there's no British representation in it. This does fuck me off about games nowadays, as mxfox has already displayed, the UK has been marginalised in World War 2. CoD already removed the British representation in MW2, and it seems MoH is already doing the same in this. Fuck me, we're in Sangin, read 2 Para, or Desperate Glory to realise just how much the British are doing, for very little recognition (a US General asked a 30 man British scouting unit, the UK equivalent to the US Marine First Recon, to hold a FOB, something that experience at that point said needed a company, around 100 men, to do properly. That same US general tried to say that the British forces "weren't doing enough", despite the fact that we held that fucking FOB for 52 fucking days). With shit like this going on, i'm willing to bet that in 5 years time, gentlemen like mxfox will be saying that NATO did fuck all to help the US in Afghanistan.

 

[Geo Da Sponge]

I kind of agree with you. If anyone wants to be angry at this game because they think it's being exploitative of a real war that is currently happening, then that's fine by me. It's the idea that playing as a member of Taliban shooting British and US soldiers is bad, but the other way round is fine, which seems a very black and white mentality to me. The idea that the Taliban are 'The Bad Guys' and as such it's okay to dehumanise them.

Were did it say playing a British or US soldier and shooting the Taliban was good though? It could be argued that it's an insensitivity to both sides. Again, Opfor in CoD is a make believe organisation, the Taliban are very real.

Well it was implied from the fact that Liam Fox complained specifically and exclusively about this feature of the game (or rather, that was what was implied that by the article; the Escapist has run misleading articles before). I was saying that if someone wants to complain because a game is exploiting real life tragedies (that is to say, specifically using real events, places and names) then fair enough, I may even join them in that. But complaining because you're allowed to be 'the baddies' isn't a good reason.

 

[sheah1]

That's a fair point, bit again, i think it's a little too close for comfort, i'd say it border's being disrespectful, especially as I feel they've done it simply to gain publicity through controversy. Is there any reason why they couldn't have it be the Saliban?

 

[Patton662]

It's ok when the British soldiers kill the Talibans after all I'm ABSOLUTELY SURE they don't have their own wives and children. And I'm also 100% CERTAIN that British soldiers have never, ever harmed an innocent person or tortured POVs. God save the Queen !!

I don't think it's possible to torture point's of view...

As an aside, yeah, we do, but it's our country, and like it or not, we should support our military, nevermind how fucking retarded our government is.

I have nothing against the troops. After all they are just people they are ordered to fight no matter if they agree with the cause or not(Also I too live in Britain so that's that). My point is that all military organisations have some shoddy business going on. Besides the Russians did not boycott the past two CoDs and however many other games, films and books that depicted them as villains so why should we ban one that lets us play as Talibans in the multi?

 

[szaleniec1000]

Games are a good way to waste time, but don't for a second believe that games are in any way more important than for example the loss that families are subjected to on both sides of the conflict.

I didn't. In fact, I said the exact opposite.

Oh I'm sorry are you privy to his motivations? No? Then shut it. You want to argue that his opinion is wrong for his position then fine, but don't tell me why you think he's doing what he's doing. Character assassination is the tactic of someone with no legitimate argument.

I wasn't born yesterday. I've been following politics long enough to recognise attention whoring when I see it.

 

[Last Valiance]

First of all, this game flat out NEEDS the taliban in it; it is the ONLY interesting thing in the entire game and the only thing that would make me buy it over the next CoD game.

Second of all, fuck off and stop trying to impose your views on others; virtually every conflict is caused by that.

Lastly, why oh why would he say "un-british"? One thing that's always annoyed me about America is how often the phrase "un-american" is tossed around in order to manipulate public opinion instantly, and I'm frightened of Britain becoming a bunch of blindly patriotic sheep like seemingly half of the US's population (or at least those on teh interwebz).

Ya dun goofed.

 

[mxfox408]

Maybe the united states should have not killed lots of people by staying out of world war 2, but then again doesnt the uk exist today and the rest of the semi free europe exist today because us americans took back what germany conquered twice in one generation?? Lets not forget the millions that were slain from the english empire for more than thousands of years. So go ahead and bash us americans for securing your freedoms twice. I will say that france played a big part in our revolution from ofcourse the english who controlled the world. Dont lecture us on killing when the english history is even darker than ours.

I try not to insult people over the internet, but you're acting like a stereotypical "American" with that comment. Also, Russia saved everyone during WWII. We all just helped THEM win the war.

I kind of agree with you. If anyone wants to be angry at this game because they think it's being exploitative of a real war that is currently happening, then that's fine by me. It's the idea that playing as a member of Taliban shooting British and US soldiers is bad, but the other way round is fine, which seems a very black and white mentality to me. The idea that the Taliban are 'The Bad Guys' and as such it's okay to dehumanise them.

Were did it say playing a British or US soldier and shooting the Taliban was good though? It could be argued that it's an insensitivity to both sides. Again, Opfor in CoD is a make believe organisation, the Taliban are very real.

Having said that, i doubt i'll buy it because there's no British representation in it. This does fuck me off about games nowadays, as mxfox has already displayed, the UK has been marginalised in World War 2. CoD already removed the British representation in MW2, and it seems MoH is already doing the same in this. Fuck me, we're in Sangin, read 2 Para, or Desperate Glory to realise just how much the British are doing, for very little recognition (a US General asked a 30 man British scouting unit, the UK equivalent to the US Marine First Recon, to hold a FOB, something that experience at that point said needed a company, around 100 men, to do properly. That same US general tried to say that the British forces "weren't doing enough", despite the fact that we held that fucking FOB for 52 fucking days). With shit like this going on, i'm willing to bet that in 5 years time, gentlemen like mxfox will be saying that NATO did fuck all to help the US in Afghanistan.

Can you explain were i said brittian didnt do shit in ww II? How did i marginalize brittish contributions? I stated that the united states provided a shit ton of resources once we entered to war and can you see the uk, russia, france winning the war without the us?? France was conquered, russia was in ruins the uk was on the verge of being invaded and if the japaniese didnt attack us theyd invade russia from the east but thats not how history played now is it. Are you telling me that the uk could handle germany alone without the mass forces of the us army/air force, navy? Sure the uk helped a shit ton but like i said the war didnt turn around till we entered. The uk also helped with korea, vietnam, the gulf war, afghanistan and iraq, the uk is our greatest ally and i never said they didnt do shit so unless you can point out were i said the uk didnt do shit i suggest you calm down. My argumemt came from someone calling us killers. In war its kill or be killed another note i think the uk is the best friend we can have and both of our countries are facing simular problems.

 

[socialmenace42]

"At the hands of the Taliban, children have lost fathers and wives have lost husbands,"

Yeah, and so did at the hands of US Marines, and Nazis, and Soviets. What kind of lame argument is this.

Couldn't agree more. besides, what Fox fails to realise is that to use the Taliban in the game is hardly throwing them into a good light, it's not even an acknowledgement of the organisation, at best it is a footnote, a last homage to a no longer feared force which has failed to change people through fear. Since this is exactly what terrorist organisations wish to do, I'd say it's just a poignient reminder of how decadent the conflict in the middle east realy is, pointless deaths on both sides.


Oh yeah, and 'un-British'? Come over here and say that again, before i engage you in a friendly game of 'hide the wing-tip' (Cookies for refference? Anyone?)

 

[sheah1]

Fair points, though i meant this point

"Maybe the united states should have not killed lots of people by staying out of world war 2, but then again doesnt the uk exist today and the rest of the semi free europe exist today because us americans took back what germany conquered twice in one generation??"

The implication is that the US did all the work. To be fair, without you, we'd have been a Soviet Britain. Though the Japanese invading Russia would have made for an interesting alternate reality. As for the second paragraph, that was a semi-aimless rant, but it does seem that the US marginalizes us, and Cameron doesn't help (junior partner? SRSLY?), i apologise if you thought that was aimed at yourself, i'll hold my hands up and admit you set me off, but alot of it is aimed at people like David Cameron and isn't helped by the fact that Obama doesn't seem to like us.

 

[Zykon TheLich]

Bloody Tories. They love to ban stuff, and when they can't they try and persuade shops not to stock the item in question. As FPS lover I will definitely be buying this.

 

[dietpeachsnapple]

HUH...

What about every other MOH, AA, COD game where we are allowed to play as the Germans?

 

[sheah1]

we're not currently fighting, killing, and being killed by the Germans.

 

[mxfox408]

Fair points, though i meant this point

"Maybe the united states should have not killed lots of people by staying out of world war 2, but then again doesnt the uk exist today and the rest of the semi free europe exist today because us americans took back what germany conquered twice in one generation??"

The implication is that the US did all the work. To be fair, without you, we'd have been a Soviet Britain. Though the Japanese invading Russia would have made for an interesting alternate reality. As for the second paragraph, that was a semi-aimless rant, but it does seem that the US marginalizes us, and Cameron doesn't help (junior partner? SRSLY?), i apologise if you thought that was aimed at yourself, i'll hold my hands up and admit you set me off, but alot of it is aimed at people like David Cameron and isn't helped by the fact that Obama doesn't seem to like us.

I didnt vote for Obama because I knew his policys would be weak not to mention hes pro muslim wich wont make him objective but subjective toward anything the taliban or hamas does to undermine our efforts. I do love the UK and hold lots of respect for their people because were very simular not to mention our government and society is kind of close to the system thiers is. W are the greatest allies and I do Wish you were reconized more for it. I cant speak for Cameron but i can speak for myself. Obama is an Idiot that more americans are waking up to realizing every day.

 

[Wtfmissile]

People need to quit getting butthurt over video games. Noone makes a big deal about movies, music and books that contain material like this, yet a game comes out and all of a sudden the world is ending?

And the whole excuse "but you're playing as..." is total bullshit and I don't buy it.