Ukranie is the kid. Russia is the abusive parent. If I'm wrong, please explain. Thank you.
Ukraine
- Thread starter Silvanus
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Dude, millions of Russians live in Ukraine. Disregarding that it's still best that they retreat with as little bloodshed as possible.
Russia isn't reacting to Ukraine so much as it is reacting to NATO. And Russia quite justifiably feels threatened. I don't think abusive parents are generally abusive because their children are threatening to carry dynamite into the house on behalf of some hostile guy across town.
In your own words, what is NATO? Because NATO is a defensive alliance, whose purpose is to protect its member states. NATO is primarily a defensive bloc. Why to be concerned about a defensive bloc, unless you are planning to invade its members?
So, what, Russia is entitled to having buffer states on the border, said state's own wished be damned?
Awfully imperialistic attitude there
It's just geography: Chernobyl was in between Russian forces and Kyiv. They weren't taking it for any sort of unique radioactive strategic reason.
Still, dredging up radioactive particles and damaging protective silos isn't *great* long term.
- May 6, 2020
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It's amazing to me how people can completely torpedo their own credibility and then rhetorically lash out when called on that.
I am, of course, talking primarily and solely about Vladimir Putin and that speech he gave justifying his invasion. And nothing else.
I am, of course, talking primarily and solely about Vladimir Putin and that speech he gave justifying his invasion. And nothing else.
Russia Ukraine updates: Russian troops’ sick act caught on film | news.com.au — Australia’s leading news site
"Do not resist. You are being liberated."
"Do not resist. You are being liberated."
Fucking hell. Only posting this due to confirmation that, somehow, the driver is alive:
It makes sense also as a strategic base because attacking it could be a disaster and even going through it could give many soldiers radiation poisoning.
The problem is having a bunch of soldiers camped in Chernobyl will obviously give them radiation poisoning
Imperialism is when you don't feel comfortable with the most powerful military alliance of all time placing military assets from all around the world in a neighboring country, and then that military alliance pointedly ignoring your concerns, sure. After that military alliance has attacked Libya without provocation, after many in that military alliance invaded Iraq without provocation, after that military alliance invaded Afghanistan because the United States "felt threatened" by it and made an article 4 claim. Afghanistan! A threat to the United States! Russia's fears about NATO aggression are not exactly unfounded and ignoring their security concerns in a nuclear age is somewhere between recklessly naive and suicidally hostile. You don't get to just squeeze and murder across the globe and pretend you're an innocent defensive alliance only dangerous to evil aggressor nations.
All countries should be entitled not to feel threatened by a vast military alliance; Russia is one of the few that has the power to do something about that entitlement. And NATO responds by throwing whichever countries they can manipulate into pushing NATO's threat closer to Russia to the wolves in exchange for a good opportunity to deploy propaganda about Russia's 'aggression'-- aggression that is the result of the violation of clearly communicated demands that are not unreasonable. And the proposed solution to this pattern is to keep doing precisely what Russia feels threatened by and has warned you to stop. As if doing it repeatedly will yield a different result. And it might yield a different result. Just an even worse one.
Here is notable tankie and imperialist Noam Chomsky echoing the notorious tankies Henry Kissinger and John Mearsheimer on how reasonable it would be for Russia to accept the Ukraine joining a hostile military alliance:
Like, are you all just drunk on the current round of propaganda or something? That you think national self-determination is and should be a blank check to threaten nuclear annihilation? That any objection is "imperialist"? It's absurd. You're playing a semantic game, and not that well, when the proper analysis is of material reality.
I think you're missing the fact that all these countries that NATO ''encroaches on'' have sovereignty and that they all want NATO there. Because they are all neighboring a country that has repeatedly schemed to destroy, subjugate and torment them. Its Russia's neighbors which have the valid security concern. Ukraine shows precicely what Russia does to neighbors who aren't in NATO. It forces them into a position of vassal state and when their ''vassal'' objects to this Russia starts reacting with extreme violence.
Why wouldn't any of Russia's neighbors join NATO after this? Any assumption that Russia might have even tried to be a good neighbor has been disproved for years now. Even long before Maidan Russia saw fit to poison a Ukranian president for not being docile enough. To remain an independent nation there's only really one option left for Ukraine which is NATO. And every eastern European country already in NATO sees their choice to enter completely validated. Otherwise they might have been the country getting destroyed by Russia yet again. All the reasons Putin states as to why Ukraine shouldn't exist also apply to all his other neighbors. All have historic ties(of being subjugated and terrorized) with Russia, all have Russian minorities that require ''protecting'' and all have ''betrayed'' Russia by joining the west.
Ironically, of course, Ukraine's population showed little enthusiasm for joining NATO... until Russia invaded it, twice.
It's almost like countries might seek to join military alliances for self-defence. Who'd have thought?
U.N. Security Council to vote Friday on condemning Russia
The United Nations Security Council will vote on Friday on a draft resolution that would condemn Russia for invading Ukraine and require Moscow to immediately and unconditionally withdraw, but the measure is set to fail because Moscow can cast a veto.
www.reuters.com
Russia has investigated that actions and found nothing wrong
However this does showed that Russia is alone in this conflict besides their puppet states (I.E Belarus)
No, you're right. That totally justifies creating an empire for buffer space, my bad
An empire is when your rivals have agreed not to put their military in a country near you.
He literally threatened military action against Finland the other day, in a speech. And Sweden.
And not much reason to invade when you already hold a puppet regime in Belarus. You know they're involved in the invasion, right?
Cool! Exactly the same as your comments on here, then! Or anyone else's!
It's a weird preoccupation you have, you know, whining about how the comments people make aren't useful. As if yours are having any measurable impact on the geopolitical situation. Its an online forum.
Advocating for powers to not invade others = advocating a course of action that will lead to more invasions eh? OK.
Whereas denying invasions, and then offering apologia and deflection once they occur.... that'll really knock the invasion tally down, will it?
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Flip the script. Apply the same rationale to the USA. The USA is a nuclear power; denying its demands could lead to nuclear war. So tell me: is it the moral thing to do for states to just capitulate to whatever demands the USA makes? Refusing will lead to more invasions! If they just did whatever the US wanted, the US wouldn't need to invade!
I fail to see how this isn't functionally identical to your own reasoning.
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So far Putin has intervened directly against the citizens of Belarus, against the citizens of Kazakhstan and against the citizens of Ukraine. And that's just his more recent ventures. Whenever a dictator doesn't have the support of his people Putin is always there to champion their cause and to help beat the population into submission.
What an anti imperialist.
What an anti imperialist.