Ukraine
- Thread starter Silvanus
- Start date
Better to not invade.
I do my best not to engage in discussions on major political events like this, usually on the basis that since I'm not involved I don't have enough of a personal understanding of the guts of the issues to really comment. In this case, I actually do have a personal understanding but I've been avoiding commenting because all I'm doing is stressing myself out and there's really no way I can be kind or even handed in my responses when it comes to this stuff.
Right now I'm breaking that rule because your idiot imperialist American point of view is so deeply upsetting that I feel I have to say something or else I will explode. Right now you're probably thinking "no I'm not being an American imperialist in saying this because I'm opposing the American side in my statements". But that's where you're wrong. Everything about what you're arguing is completely in line with the godawful American approach of beating down or otherwise breaking countries they don't like, it's just that you've found a way to completely agree with the worst aspects of your governments politics while simultaneously opposing your own government. That may be the most pure expression of American politics I've ever seen.
Where you've crossed the line, in my mind, is to imply that somehow Ukraine deserves what is happening not because they didn't bend the knee - they most certainly folded in an effort to avoid this very situation - but because they didn't bend the knee in the specifically correct way that would also require other groups wholly beyond their control to act a specific way. I cannot possibly imagine a more morally reprehensible justification for invasion and the death of innocent civilians.
I have absolutely no idea what you personally gain from taking such a despicable stance, but I suggest you reflect on yourself because I refuse to believe this is the person you actually want to be.
And now I am going to leave this thread because if I'm going to get an ulcer I would like it to be from worrying about the lives of people currently going through the worst experience imaginable rather than because I'm reading what a fool has to say about a situation that is completely beyond his grasp.
Look, I think the US needs to be talked about somewhat because their leading NATO against Russia. I also hope we learnt from Iraq/Afghanistan that going in blindly without an actual goal is really bad
NATO isn't going to help Ukraine with a military relief force because Russia just captured Chernobyl, and it's implied they will release radiation from the waste storage into Europe if they help Ukraine because that's the monster Putin is that many of you people defend by distracting us about how the US is bad when the real baddies are trying to annex or oppress whole countries in their regions. (China Taiwan, Russia Ukraine, and Iran a whole bunch of countries in the Middle East including Iraq, Lebanon, and Yemen)
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Ukraine reports higher Chernobyl radiation after Russians capture plant
Ukraine said on Friday it had recorded increased radiation levels from the defunct Chernobyl nuclear power plant, a day after the site was captured by Russian forces, due to military activity causing radioactive dust to rise into the air.
www.reuters.com
Most Americans didn't even vote for Bush Jr, he won because the cunts in SCOTUS at the time made him win, and the Dems did win Florida.
And yes to the other post saying I got Putin wrong, I assumed Putin would back off if Ukraine didn't join NATO which France did signal, and Ukraine was headed there by calling it a dream.
Finland or Sweden joining Nato would spark Russian response: Russia warns
If either Nordic country sought to join the security alliance it "would have serious military and political consequences that would require our country to take reciprocal steps, a spokesperson for the Russian foreign ministry said
I also want to remind everyone that Russia has nukes
Ukraine supplies 90% of U.S. semiconductor-grade neon (and what it means to chip supply chain)
Ukraine supplies more than 90% of the US’s semiconductor-grade neon, a gas integral to the lasers used in the chip-making process,. Now what?
venturebeat.com
Hmmm…HMMM…
China Foreign Ministry: Ukraine's territory and sovereignty should be respected, urges talks
In a statement on the Russo-Ukraine was released on Friday, China said that Ukraine's territory and sovereignty should be respected and urged talks be
Well this is huge, their biggest allies turning on them.
How much of an asshole do you have to be for Switzerland to take a side
And the way that the countries we live in could have accomplished that is to ease tensions by abandoning the pretense that NATO is entitled and aiming to have weapons on the border of Russia.
Where do you get "deserve" from? That literally doesn't even enter into it. The United States had the choice-- has had the choice for the past few decades-- of easing tensions, instead it encouraged Ukraine to act precisely like the threat Russia believes it to be if it would join NATO; and then they hung it out to dry exactly like Georgia. Obnoxious moral posturing doesn't accomplish anything; negotiating Ukraine's neutrality would have. But the United States didn't do that because it regards the security of Ukraine as expendable and a war between Ukraine and Russia as an opportunity to replace Russia as a source of natural gas for Europe.
Switzerland probably made up their mind around the same time Russia made it very clear that Ukraine is only one of the first nations on their invasion list.
Russia threatens 'serious military repercussions' if Finland joins NATO
Russian Foreign Ministry spokesperson Maria Zakharova said Finland's accession to NATO could 'have detrimental consequences'.
Ah, better do exactly what the guy with the largest nuclear arsenal in the world and that you think is crazy has explicitly told you not to. Again. It'll work out differently the third time. Maybe we'll all die instead of just some of us!Switzerland probably made up their mind around the same time Russia made it very clear that Ukraine is only one of the first nations on their invasion list.
Russia threatens 'serious military repercussions' if Finland joins NATO
Russian Foreign Ministry spokesperson Maria Zakharova said Finland's accession to NATO could 'have detrimental consequences'.news.yahoo.com
You must have missed all the dozens of other justifications Putin has given for military intervention over the last few months (several of them complete fabrications). Remove one of his stated justifications, he still has 12 left over.
You know the way in which Russia could have accomplished it, on the other hand? By not invading.
We'll have to wait until they put serious action behind those words cause it could just be face saving.China Foreign Ministry: Ukraine's territory and sovereignty should be respected, urges talks
In a statement on the Russo-Ukraine was released on Friday, China said that Ukraine's territory and sovereignty should be respected and urged talks bewww.fxstreet.com
Well this is huge, their biggest allies turning on them.
At least you've shifted from "Putin innocent" to "Putin too scary, we better give him whatever he wants in the hope he lets us go". It's progress!
Since even EvilRoy's extremely thoughtful and well-written post didn't get through to you, maybe memes will. Probably not, though; tankie gunna tankie.
You're talking about someone who, with what I assume is a straight face, has suggested that the US military should be used to remove every Jew from Israel, so you tell me.On a not totally unrelated note, hypothetically, if Israel renounced its ties with the US and opposed US imperialism, and the Palestinians got at least nominal US support, I wonder if people's opinions would change.
Yeah, that's why he invaded Afghanistan, Kazakhstan, Finland, Belarus. Putin's just going wild, anywhere and everywhere!
Wait, no, it always seems to be related to NATO threatening to be right next door for some strange reason.
Cool. That and $5 will buy you a coffee.
Whereas you're advocating a course of action that will lead either to more invasions of places on Russia's border or, better, the extinction of all human life. Very moral of you.
Is Chernobyl a bigger threat than a nuke? Seems like a really great way to give yourself radiation poisoning. Also, Russia isn't going to use nukes IN Ukraine... because they WANT Ukraine. Damaging any part of it makes this whole invasion uselessNATO isn't going to help Ukraine with a military relief force because Russia just captured Chernobyl, and it's implied they will release radiation from the waste storage into Europe if they help Ukraine because that's the monster Putin is that many of you people defend by distracting us about how the US is bad when the real baddies are trying to annex or oppress whole countries in their regions. (China Taiwan, Russia Ukraine, and Iran a whole bunch of countries in the Middle East including Iraq, Lebanon, and Yemen)
Ukraine reports higher Chernobyl radiation after Russians capture plant
Ukraine said on Friday it had recorded increased radiation levels from the defunct Chernobyl nuclear power plant, a day after the site was captured by Russian forces, due to military activity causing radioactive dust to rise into the air.
Most Americans didn't even vote for Bush Jr, he won because the cunts in SCOTUS at the time made him win, and the Dems did win Florida.
And yes to the other post saying I got Putin wrong, I assumed Putin would back off if Ukraine didn't join NATO which France did signal, and Ukraine was headed there by calling it a dream.
If you want my 'this is the US fault' opinion, its this^. All Putin is doing is being the mad MAD raving lunatic on the political stage to score victory points. I'm pretty sure people like Reagan never conceived that it could be used against the US. Somehow. But people in the 80s sure did and thought what he was doing would have really bad repercussions long term. Just like MS-13, it's an 80s ethical problem that has been flipped on the US to hurt them. Tada... Repercussions
But I dont blame Biden for that. Just like I didnt blame Trump for causing MS-13. But I will blame them if they abuse the situation for political gain and dont really do anything to fix the problem
Why does it sound so similar to people defending abusive parents? "If the kids had just do what they are told, the father wouldn't have beat them up"
Yes, the foremost military power in history is a kid with an abusive parent. Fascinating.