One also might look at Greece in the aftermath of WW2. Lots of armed groups no longer had a common enemy. Not saying that Ukraine will go the same way, but it wouldn't be a massive surprise if there was at least some of that.
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Absent
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Well, the Greek situation was a bit specific. Greek communists were fighting the Nazis, and meant to liberate Greece and establish their vision of democracy (depending on who you ask : either a USSR satellite or an independent social state). And the Allies beat them to the finish, manoeuvring to liberate Athens before them. Communists were frustrated to have their victory stolen along with the opportunity to define the state. As the Allies asked them to surrender their weapons, they refused and formed a new resistance - which was defeated after a lot of blood shed, deported children on both sides, former heroes being criminalized and vilified, and political activists being silenced, imprisoned and tortured. And sure enough, Europe and the US would keep supporting fascist regimes in Greece, sometimes with nazi sympathisers, because the new geopolitics demanded a strongly anti-communist state (with US military bases) at the border of the soviet bloc.
Such a civil war in Ukraine could happen if neo-nazi militias were to liberate the country and expect to rule it afterwards, only to be told to give back their weapons and go home. I don't really see that dynamic. Especially as Kiev and the government still stand in pre-war continuity.
What I can imagine is a huge boost in nationalist sentiment, a sense of racial and ethnic superiority fueled by victory over a foreign siege, and the entitlement of victims. Basically, some sort of Israel syndrome. It's not a pre-determined fate, but still an ideological, cultural shift that would not be immensely surprising. Especially if a bunch of neo-nazis get normalised as national heroes to feel gratitude to.
Oh sure, not expecting a full civil war, I mean that having lots of groups with guns might cause lesser but still alarming problems. They were also worried about things going that way in France, and that didn't happen.
In addition to all the good points Absent made, I'd add that Greece was actually occupied. The prime minister committed suicide when the capital fell. The monarchy and remaining elements of the government went into exile in the British territory of Egypt, and the Axis powers divided Greece between them and set up occupation governments and eventually a puppet government. The armed groups who remained fighting in Greece were partisans. Most of them nominally recognized the government in exile as the legitimate government, but they weren't under any kind of government authority. Most of the support, supplies and direction they received came directly from Britain rather than their own government. When Greece was liberated and the government in exile reinstated as the official government, it had to restore its monopoly on the use of force, and those groups became a problem because now they either had to be incorporated into the military or disarmed, and they didn't necessarily like those options.
The situation in Ukraine, at the moment, is very different because while there are a lot of armed people with varying political motives, they're already incorporated into the military. They aren't operating autonomously and doing their own thing, they're getting orders from a centralized high command, their weapons and supplies are coming from military logistics.
While it's hypothetically possible elements of the armed forces could stage a mutiny or even attempt a military coup against the civilian government, doing so would place them in a very awkward position. They'd be fighting against the same government they'd previously been fighting to protect. They'd be guilty of treason, and they'd lose access to the support and resources they'd previously enjoyed as a military unit. It's one thing to be fighting to establish a new government in a situation where the existing government has collapsed. It's another to betray the government you've been fighting for.
Basically, whatever threat the far right poses in Ukraine, the absolute worst way to deal with it would be to allow the existing government to fall, because then you've recreated the situation in Greece where you have all these politicized militias operating autonomously, rather than the current situation where some members of the armed forces might potentially have questionable political sympathies.
I've literally never denied the fascist nature of Azov. Whereas you're constantly deflecting from Wagner's atrocities and dismissing or excusing their overt fascist trappings.
You outright said you believe this stuff is so much more prevalent on one side because it pops up in your feed more often. It's like some phoenixmgs shit.
More information on the Wagner Munity, plus a lot more pledged western support.
Perun weighs in on Cluster Munitions as well as the Artillery War. TLDW Ukraine uses artillery ammo as quickly as it gets it(it doesn't help it has like 10 different systems right now, Western and Soviet) and needs more. Production is ramping up to meet the need but it's not there yet. The US has like 3-4 million rounds of cluster munitions it's going to decom regardless and wouldn't you know, Ukraine could desperately use 3-4 million rounds of 155mm so problem solves itself in that capacity.
Absent
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Ukraine: Civilian Deaths from Cluster Munitions
New Human Rights Watch research found that Ukrainian cluster munition rocket attacks on Russian-controlled areas in and around the city of Izium in eastern Ukraine during 2022 caused many casualties among Ukrainian civilians. Both countries should stop using these inherently indiscriminate...
Absent
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A Sobering Analysis Of Ukraine's Counteroffensive From The Front
A military analyst just returned from touring the Ukraine front and has offered his blunt take on how the counteroffensive is really going.
www.thedrive.com
The west has never really fought against a technologically comparable adversary so I wonder if complex combined operation would really work in a situation with heavy communication jamming and that changes minutes to minutes.A Sobering Analysis Of Ukraine's Counteroffensive From The Front
A military analyst just returned from touring the Ukraine front and has offered his blunt take on how the counteroffensive is really going.
Ukraine also has the problem that it's had to increase the size of it military drastically recently (for obvious reasons), it's not had time to train new recruits in everything, and large scale exercises have been out of the question, if for no other reason than you have to train in everything else first.
I think it's alluded to but large scale combined arms combat is actually pretty hard and it's not surprising at all Ukraine is having problems with it. Especially in the face of defense in depth and without an air force to offset the artillery advantage Russia has.
They simply lack the material and trained personal to do it effectively on a large enough scale to thump Russia into the mud.
no.
i compared a truckload of individual and unique instances being posted by the official Armed Forces of Ukraine twitter account with your google search that returns several sources that all have the same several pictures and claims about Rusich. Which you keep conflating with all of Wagner because Rusich isn't anywhere near as large as you wish it were.
That's not how you did it within that sentence. You did it by implying that Azov is the only Nazi problem in Ukraine.
You only ever post evidence that pertains to Rusich, though. There is no need to accept any of your claims that go beyond that because they simply haven't the foundation. If you want to use that kind of logic, then all AFU is Nazi because Azov is.
You haven't provided a "truckload from the official account". You've provided a comparatively measley number of photos, often compiled in tweets by untrustworthy third parties.
I've provided sources from independent researchers, people actually on the ground, interviews with survivors, and respected international organisations, alongside more unique photos of Nazi symbology in Wagner than you ever did. And despite what you're saying above, only some of it has been from Rusich. The Wagner Group is composed of smaller companies, so your incessant whining that I'm posting stuff from smaller companies within Wagner is a complete waste of time-- its literally unavoidable.
Stuff from outside Rusich includes one of the founders of the Wagner Group emblazoned with SS tattoos, you'll recall.
That's not implied there, this is a lie-- though it's relevant to examine the claims about Azov specifically since they have been central to the Russian government propaganda about Ukraine's Nazi problem. Meanwhile, you're denying Nazism is an issue in Wagner outside of Rusich, despite direct evidence having already been provided to you. You're doing exactly what you're accusing others of doing.
This is also a lie. The last time I listed instances, several of them came from outside Rusich.
Of course, the very fact that Wagner is happy to incorporate Rusich-- even though its official flag emblem is a fascist variant, and its commander gleefully describes himself as a Nazi-- doesn't speak well for the org as a whole, does it?
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If anyone is interested at looking at fascist elements among the Russian effort in Ukraine outside of Rusich and the Wagner Group, you can also look to the white-supremacist Russian Imperial Movement, which operates two paramilitary training camps in St. Petersburg, and is assisting the Russian invasion in Ukraine as well as several Russian deployments in Africa.
Or the reborn Black Hundreds, who ran a training camp for pro-Russian paramilitary volunteers in Odessa before it was shut down in the earlier stages of the Donbas conflict. And who encouraged targeting of Jewish people in separatist-controlled territories since 2014.
Or Russian National Unity, yet another neo-Nazi militia that fought alongside the Russian separatist insurgents in Donetsk. Pavel Gubarev, a member of RNU, was briefly appointed "people's governor" of separatist-controlled Donetsk, but was excluded from running in the 2014 elections due to submitting forged signatures... only to be later appointed by the DPR as mayor of Yasynuvata. His wife was also appointed Minister of Foreign Affairs for DPR.
Yeah, it ain't hard to find instances of the Russian government (or their insurgent proxies) entertaining fascist militias outside of Rusich and/or Wagner.
Or the reborn Black Hundreds, who ran a training camp for pro-Russian paramilitary volunteers in Odessa before it was shut down in the earlier stages of the Donbas conflict. And who encouraged targeting of Jewish people in separatist-controlled territories since 2014.
Or Russian National Unity, yet another neo-Nazi militia that fought alongside the Russian separatist insurgents in Donetsk. Pavel Gubarev, a member of RNU, was briefly appointed "people's governor" of separatist-controlled Donetsk, but was excluded from running in the 2014 elections due to submitting forged signatures... only to be later appointed by the DPR as mayor of Yasynuvata. His wife was also appointed Minister of Foreign Affairs for DPR.
Yeah, it ain't hard to find instances of the Russian government (or their insurgent proxies) entertaining fascist militias outside of Rusich and/or Wagner.
Absent
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That is if you don't already classify the russian state as a fascist regime, given its treatment of minorities, its ethno-nationalism, its treatment of political opposition, its militarism, its control of medias, its glorification of virility, its glorification of violence, its structuring reference to a golden age, its personality cult around the head of state, its regime of fear, its national-sectarian victimhood rhetorics, etc.
Russia currently is a fascist militia.
just because I haven't posted it doesn't mean it's not there. reality is not dependent on being posted on this forum.
Ah, so when you said "I compared X with Y", you were talking about something you did without showing your working, and we should just trust in that.
No, I don't trust that you've approached it in an honest way, and your approach to sources thus far has been exceptionally poor (Twitter randos, at least one probable false flag with the corpse pit thing, and at least once posting shit from a far-right party). Especially when you literally said you concluded its more common because it comes up in your feed more often. I mean, seriously.