One also might look at Greece in the aftermath of WW2. Lots of armed groups no longer had a common enemy. Not saying that Ukraine will go the same way, but it wouldn't be a massive surprise if there was at least some of that.
Well, the Greek situation was a bit specific. Greek communists were fighting the Nazis, and meant to liberate Greece and establish their vision of democracy (depending on who you ask : either a USSR satellite or an independent social state). And the Allies beat them to the finish, manoeuvring to liberate Athens before them. Communists were frustrated to have their victory stolen along with the opportunity to define the state. As the Allies asked them to surrender their weapons, they refused and formed a new resistance - which was defeated after a lot of blood shed, deported children on both sides, former heroes being criminalized and vilified, and political activists being silenced, imprisoned and tortured. And sure enough, Europe and the US would keep supporting fascist regimes in Greece, sometimes with nazi sympathisers, because the new geopolitics demanded a strongly anti-communist state (with US military bases) at the border of the soviet bloc.One also might look at Greece in the aftermath of WW2. Lots of armed groups no longer had a common enemy. Not saying that Ukraine will go the same way, but it wouldn't be a massive surprise if there was at least some of that.
In addition to all the good points Absent made, I'd add that Greece was actually occupied. The prime minister committed suicide when the capital fell. The monarchy and remaining elements of the government went into exile in the British territory of Egypt, and the Axis powers divided Greece between them and set up occupation governments and eventually a puppet government. The armed groups who remained fighting in Greece were partisans. Most of them nominally recognized the government in exile as the legitimate government, but they weren't under any kind of government authority. Most of the support, supplies and direction they received came directly from Britain rather than their own government. When Greece was liberated and the government in exile reinstated as the official government, it had to restore its monopoly on the use of force, and those groups became a problem because now they either had to be incorporated into the military or disarmed, and they didn't necessarily like those options.One also might look at Greece in the aftermath of WW2. Lots of armed groups no longer had a common enemy. Not saying that Ukraine will go the same way, but it wouldn't be a massive surprise if there was at least some of that.
You literally did it within the same sentence.You remain the only one here denying the neo-fascist nature of a neo-fascist group, and wanting us to consider a fascist battalion of a few hundred (operating solely within its own country's borders) to be a greater concern than a fascist PMC of a fair few thousand invading another country.
, you speculate.Nope, but it has been giving a distorted impression of their prominence and frequency, while minimising and sidelining stuff you wouldn't care about-- such as similar evidence on the other side. That's how it works-- it doesn't invent, but it spotlights and excludes, to give an overall highly distorted impression
I've literally never denied the fascist nature of Azov. Whereas you're constantly deflecting from Wagner's atrocities and dismissing or excusing their overt fascist trappings.You literally did it within the same sentence.
You outright said you believe this stuff is so much more prevalent on one side because it pops up in your feed more often. It's like some phoenixmgs shit.you speculate.
True, in retrospect Greece was a bad example.In addition to all the good points Absent made, I'd add that Greece was actually occupied. The prime minister committed suicide when the capital fell. The monarchy and remaining elements of the government went into exile in the British territory of Egypt, and the Axis powers divided Greece between them and set up occupation governments and eventually a puppet government. The armed groups who remained fighting in Greece were partisans. Most of them nominally recognized the government in exile as the legitimate government, but they weren't under any kind of government authority. Most of the support, supplies and direction they received came directly from Britain rather than their own government. When Greece was liberated and the government in exile reinstated as the official government, it had to restore its monopoly on the use of force, and those groups became a problem because now they either had to be incorporated into the military or disarmed, and they didn't necessarily like those options.
The situation in Ukraine, at the moment, is very different because while there are a lot of armed people with varying political motives, they're already incorporated into the military. They aren't operating autonomously and doing their own thing, they're getting orders from a centralized high command, their weapons and supplies are coming from military logistics.
While it's hypothetically possible elements of the armed forces could stage a mutiny or even attempt a military coup against the civilian government, doing so would place them in a very awkward position. They'd be fighting against the same government they'd previously been fighting to protect. They'd be guilty of treason, and they'd lose access to the support and resources they'd previously enjoyed as a military unit. It's one thing to be fighting to establish a new government in a situation where the existing government has collapsed. It's another to betray the government you've been fighting for.
Basically, whatever threat the far right poses in Ukraine, the absolute worst way to deal with it would be to allow the existing government to fall, because then you've recreated the situation in Greece where you have all these politicized militias operating autonomously, rather than the current situation where some members of the armed forces might potentially have questionable political sympathies.
The west has never really fought against a technologically comparable adversary so I wonder if complex combined operation would really work in a situation with heavy communication jamming and that changes minutes to minutes.A Sobering Analysis Of Ukraine's Counteroffensive From The Front
A military analyst just returned from touring the Ukraine front and has offered his blunt take on how the counteroffensive is really going.www.thedrive.com
Ukraine also has the problem that it's had to increase the size of it military drastically recently (for obvious reasons), it's not had time to train new recruits in everything, and large scale exercises have been out of the question, if for no other reason than you have to train in everything else first.The west has never really fought against a technologically comparable adversary so I wonder if complex combined operation would really work in a situation with heavy communication jamming and that changes minutes to minutes.
I think it's alluded to but large scale combined arms combat is actually pretty hard and it's not surprising at all Ukraine is having problems with it. Especially in the face of defense in depth and without an air force to offset the artillery advantage Russia has.Ukraine also has the problem that it's had to increase the size of it military drastically recently (for obvious reasons), it's not had time to train new recruits in everything, and large scale exercises have been out of the question, if for no other reason than you have to train in everything else first.
They simply lack the material and trained personal to do it effectively on a large enough scale to thump Russia into the mud.I think it's alluded to but large scale combined arms combat is actually pretty hard and it's not surprising at all Ukraine is having problems with it. Especially in the face of defense in depth and without an air force to offset the artillery advantage Russia has.
no.You outright said you believe this stuff is so much more prevalent on one side because it pops up in your feed more often. It's like some phoenixmgs shit.
That's not how you did it within that sentence. You did it by implying that Azov is the only Nazi problem in Ukraine.I've literally never denied the fascist nature of Azov.
You only ever post evidence that pertains to Rusich, though. There is no need to accept any of your claims that go beyond that because they simply haven't the foundation. If you want to use that kind of logic, then all AFU is Nazi because Azov is.Whereas you're constantly deflecting from Wagner's atrocities and dismissing or excusing their overt fascist trappings.
You haven't provided a "truckload from the official account". You've provided a comparatively measley number of photos, often compiled in tweets by untrustworthy third parties.i compared a truckload of individual and unique instances being posted by the official Armed Forces of Ukraine twitter account with your google search that returns several sources that all have the same several pictures and claims about Rusich. Which you keep conflating with all of Wagner because Rusich isn't anywhere near as large as you wish it were.
That's not implied there, this is a lie-- though it's relevant to examine the claims about Azov specifically since they have been central to the Russian government propaganda about Ukraine's Nazi problem. Meanwhile, you're denying Nazism is an issue in Wagner outside of Rusich, despite direct evidence having already been provided to you. You're doing exactly what you're accusing others of doing.That's not how you did it within that sentence. You did it by implying that Azov is the only Nazi problem in Ukraine.
This is also a lie. The last time I listed instances, several of them came from outside Rusich.You only ever post evidence that pertains to Rusich, though. There is no need to accept any of your claims that go beyond that because they simply haven't the foundation. If you want to use that kind of logic, then all AFU is Nazi because Azov is.
That is if you don't already classify the russian state as a fascist regime, given its treatment of minorities, its ethno-nationalism, its treatment of political opposition, its militarism, its control of medias, its glorification of virility, its glorification of violence, its structuring reference to a golden age, its personality cult around the head of state, its regime of fear, its national-sectarian victimhood rhetorics, etc.Yeah, it ain't hard to find instances of the Russian government (or their insurgent proxies) entertaining fascist militias outside of Rusich and/or Wagner.
just because I haven't posted it doesn't mean it's not there. reality is not dependent on being posted on this forum.You haven't provided a "truckload from the official account".
Ah, so when you said "I compared X with Y", you were talking about something you did without showing your working, and we should just trust in that.just because I haven't posted it doesn't mean it's not there. reality is not dependent on being posted on this forum.