[Update 2] How/why are console gamers satisfied with 30 fps?

[michael87cn]

Because it doesn't change how fun the game is for me.

I think that if you're playing that are so very hard, that you need to be able to react faster than the human eye can see, you are playing games that don't exist. Also, if you are so very bad at games that being able to react that fast (I realize the contradiction of being bad but still having fast reflexes...) is your crutch, well, I feel bad for you!

I have been playing games since they were blobby pixels. I had fun playing games that were black and white. I had fun playing games that had 1 simple mechanic, a moving ball bouncing from one side of the screen to the other. Why would I need games to be 60 fps? As far as fps goes, as long as there are no moments of freezing or stuttering, I enjoy the experience...

Seriously, do people not realize this comes down to snobbiness? Fanciness? Being wealthy and having wealthy taste. Yes, Poppers can enjoy video games too...

Ummm, and because it seems relevant atm, I can play games at 60 fps, and most of my games run much higher than that.

 

[elvor0]

Because I quite simply don't care. Graphics come in dead last when it comes to making a game enjoyable. FPS fall into that category for me. I don't care what the FPS are on a game so long as its fun to play.

What, and virtually doubling your potential reaction time doesn't do that?
For games that rely on fast reflexes, like twitch shooters, DMC style brawlers, fighting games, and high speed racing games, a higher framerate is virtually mandatory.

I imagine that attempting to play Metal Gear Rising at only 30 FPS would be a lot more frustrating than it would be at a smooth 60.

*Shrugs* Revengance played just fine on my 360. Don't really see what the problem is.

That's because it was running at 60 FPS on consoles as well as PC. Imagine playing it with half of the frames cut out.
Or if you have a PS4, grab the remaster of The Last of Us, play for a while without changing anything, then go into the options and lock the framerate to 30 fps. But if you can't do that either, play a level of MGR and the DmC reboot back to back and see how your reaction time changes and see if you can tell which one seems smoother.

I think the fact you had to spell it out for me that it was 60 fps and not 30 fps should tell you how little impact that fps has on me.

Only because you didn't know. You'd certainly notice if you were handed a copy that played at 30 now, it would play worse. Which isn't really a matter of debate, it /would/ play worse. Not that it matters if you don't care, just sayin'

Standard frame-rate for movies is 24 because a 30% factor of safety was pretty standard for hardware at the time.

Actually it was the balance between image quality/convincing playback speed, plus 24 was easily divisible for editing, and rolls of film were expensive, so 24 was chosen.

Besides, comparing films or even bring them up when we're talking about games is useless. Games require input and are constantly rendering, a film...is just a film, it's already exposed and set up, it will always play at a consistant speed, games are completely variable.

Is there a difference between 30 and 60 FPS?

Actually, no.
[...snip for space]

Long story short, anyone that tells you there's some visual quality improvement from a simple framerate doubling of something over 24 fps to begin with is one of those kinds of people that think that gold-plating the connectors of stereo cables improves quality... that is to say, someone without the first clue how any of the involved factors works.

(Edit: it's a concern for PC gamers because it's an easy benchmark for how well your graphics hardware is performing... again, it's an indicator for something else, not important in itself. Sure, it'll prove that PC hardware is typically better than console if you want to make that comparison, but... well, no one ever argued that consoles had better hardware than PC so that's kind of a useless point to make.)

Bolded the bit I wanted to point out.

You can argue till you're blue in the face that there objectively isn't an improvement from 24 to 60, but you'd be wrong. Just becuse /you/ don't notice it, doesn't mean you can tell people that there isn't a difference. My eyes don't allow me to see 3D with the red and blue lenses, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

I know for a fact 60 looks smoother than 30. I know that because my laptop is pretty crummy, and runs games at about 30 a good 90% of the time. Sometimes I have spikes, at 60 its much, much smoother. It also has an improved input time, Metal Gear Risng plays at 30 on my laptop, it plays at 60 on my xbox. Guess which one plays and looks smoother?

They also filmed The Hobbit at 48, which skeeved people out because they're so used to tv being at 24 frames.[1] These people have /no/ idea about FPS and the like and they noticed. Even stuff like Hearthstone runs at 30 for me, and I always notice when it spikes to 60 because it skeeves me out because I'm so used to things running at 30. Same with playing WoW on my laptop vs on my girlfriends monolithic mega rig.

Go here, and tell me there isn't a difference between 24 and 60. https://frames-per-second.appspot.com/

[1]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/film/film-news/9225905/The-Hobbit-previews-to-mixed-reactions.html

 

[Aesir23]

It's clear most people aren't used to 60FPS. Once they have played games at that frame-rate, they will notice.

So mostly it's just ignorance.

Ignorance? As has been stated many times in this thread there are people that just don't care. Is it really so inconceivable that FPS just might not be on their list of priorities?

It's because they most likely havn't exposed themselves to too many 60 FPS games. It's like the difference between 480p and 1080p. You wouldn't care if that's all you knew, but give you a month and 480p will hurt your eyes.

And whats wrong with being ignorant? I'm ignorant of stuff? As are you and Erth? lol.

I think part of it was just the way it was worded and I will admit fault for taking it such a way. All too often "ignorant" is used and taken in such a way as to mean "complete and total idiot".

 

[direkiller]

I bought an n64 and I'm currently having more fun with that than I have with any modern game for a while.
God knows what fps those games run at.
Who cares as long as the game's fun?
Elitists nowadays....
*Edit: "Elitists" wasn't aimed at anyone in this thread for the record.

oddly, most ran at 25 or 30FPS depending on where you live
Some games ran as low as (20/16.66) -golden eye multiplayer, Majora's Mask
Some ran at 60


Anything made after/around the PS1 are locked into something that divides evenly into 60 or 50 for PAL, due to the Refresh rate of TVs.
Which may be why they shoot for 30FPS, it's easier to fudge 5 frames of animation then 10 frames and keep the same timing while looking fluid.


Captra: Bond, James bond

I just had to mention goldeneye

 

[SUPA FRANKY]

It's clear most people aren't used to 60FPS. Once they have played games at that frame-rate, they will notice.

So mostly it's just ignorance.

Ignorance? As has been stated many times in this thread there are people that just don't care. Is it really so inconceivable that FPS just might not be on their list of priorities?

It's because they most likely havn't exposed themselves to too many 60 FPS games. It's like the difference between 480p and 1080p. You wouldn't care if that's all you knew, but give you a month and 480p will hurt your eyes.

And whats wrong with being ignorant? I'm ignorant of stuff? As are you and Erth? lol.

I think part of it was just the way it was worded and I will admit fault for taking it such a way. All too often "ignorant" is used and taken in such a way as to mean "complete and total idiot".

Everyones ignorant of something. I don't know Spanish or high degrees of math. Which means I'm ignorant.

But I digress. Sorry i I hurt anyones feelings.

 

[Erttheking]

It's clear most people aren't used to 60FPS. Once they have played games at that frame-rate, they will notice.

So mostly it's just ignorance.

Pardon me? I'm ignorant about fps? I know the difference very well. I just. Don't. Care.

No what it is is that you just haven't played enough games at 60fps or above, therefore you haven't lost the ability to tolerate 30fps yet, it's such a terrible shame.

Call me crazy, but I think I'll live with 30 fps. I've been doing it my whole gaming life.

That's fine. But once every game you play is 60 FPS and above, then you WILL care.

If you really wanna prove my point, spend about a month playing games you know for a fact our 60FPS ( Perferably with a mouse and keyboard).

I never realized how much 60FPS spoiled me when I go back to play games such a Resident Evil 4 and the Ty the Tasmanian Tiger series.

Don't tell me what i will and will not think.

And I've been playing League of Legends for months now. It runs at 60 fps on my computer. I only know this because it says so in the corner. 30 fps games on my 360 and old PS2 do not bother me despite the hours of gameplay I've poured into it. I. Do. Not. Care. About. Frames. Per. Second.

I don't care if you don't care. lol. It's just I'm 100% sure if you only played games with 60 FPS, then you would care.

But you don't care. So whatever.

I would want something if every single game I played had it? Not exactly a ground breaking statement. That's like saying I'd want guns in all of my games if I only ever played games with guns.

Yes. I don't care. So don't call me ignorant.

Wow. Talk about False Equivalence.

Fine. Let's just say in the dark.

The dark huh? So 60 FPS is the way of the light?

And don't imply that I'm being ignorant here. I don't appreciate my intelligence being insulted.

 

[DaWaffledude]

If you always played at 90 FPS, I'm sure 60 would become unbearable. Why bother speeding up the metaphorical treadmill?

 

[RedDeadFred]

Because I quite simply don't care. Graphics come in dead last when it comes to making a game enjoyable. FPS fall into that category for me. I don't care what the FPS are on a game so long as its fun to play.

Yup. Graphics not only come last fore me, but FPS is probably the thing I care about least when it comes to them.

So ya, literally the last thing I care about when playing a game.

Oh for fuck sake...

Framerate is not a graphics issue, it's inherently a gameplay issue.

Why does no-one seem to get that?

You're right, whenever I compare the two, it's more of a visual experience so that's why I lumped them together. You're absolutely right though.

Even still, I couldn't care less about whether my FPS is 30 or 60, just as long as it's consistent. While the difference is quite obvious going back and forth, I don't find that it diminishes the quality of the game at all. It doesn't matter for multiplayer on consoles since everyone is using the same FPS. The only time 60 FPS matters is in competitive multiplayer games on PC since you don't want to have slightly slower reactions than the other players. For single player games, at least for me, it doesn't matter in the slightest whether it's 30 or 60 FPS.

 

[Blt3200]

I play games for Gameplay. If console gamers wanted graphics that blow your find so hard you speak a foreign language, id buy a pc.
Consoles also offer reliable games that work when you buy them, any game you get with an xbox thats for an xbox will work on the xbox, no surprises.
Even though I have a friend who spent over $500 to make everything run on ultra settings, the whole fps difference i've never really noticed.

I mean if its your cup of tea to have everything 60fps+ thats cool, but its not like console gamers are some sort of lower class or impoverished.

 

[Something Amyss]

It's because they most likely havn't exposed themselves to too many 60 FPS games. It's like the difference between 480p and 1080p. You wouldn't care if that's all you knew, but give you a month and 480p will hurt your eyes.

Honestly? I upgrade to BD when it's convenient, but most of my library is still DVD.

Tell me again how it will hurt your eyes....

 

[Something Amyss]

Everyones ignorant of something. I don't know Spanish or high degrees of math. Which means I'm ignorant.

The difference is you're taking indifference and insisting it must be because of ignorance. Saying someone is ignorant is one thing, saying "well, you disagree, so it must be ignorance" is on the dismissive highway, headed straight into Conspiracy Route 5.

 

[elvor0]

It's because they most likely havn't exposed themselves to too many 60 FPS games. It's like the difference between 480p and 1080p. You wouldn't care if that's all you knew, but give you a month and 480p will hurt your eyes.

Honestly? I upgrade to BD when it's convenient, but most of my library is still DVD.

Tell me again how it will hurt your eyes....

For some stuff it's like putting someones glasses on when you're not supposed to wear glasses, but worse. Seriously, play an xbox 360 game in non HD, then play it in HD. Washed out colours, very blurry viewing, mini maps are unreadable, so is text, pin point accuracy is out the window. I have to really strain my eyes to see what I'm doing if I have to play a game on a non HD TV, which leads to eyes hurting.

 

[Ryan Minns]

Although I am a PC gamer mainly these days the only issue I have with consoles is framerate death. Not the standard stutter many games have but the game that even if it's only in one part of it can die in the ass and reach levels of 15 and even lower is when I get pissed off.

 

[Smooth Operator]

Sweet. Why don't I notice the difference between playing on my PC at 3 feet and playing on my TV at 10 feet then?

Seriously.

I mentioned that in the final part of my post, people who don't want or care to notice the difference between red and blue just won't. For those who do care to notice however it becomes impossible to not see it.

 

[Beliyal]

Try this then.
http://30vs60.com/formula1.php
Or this
http://www.30vs60fps.com/
Or this
http://boallen.com/fps-compare.html

It should be easy to see how framerate effects gameplay with these sources.

I've seen these before and at first, I thought I won't be able to tell the difference, but upon checking it out, the difference became very clear. Because I get motion sickness at 60 fps. Especially at the second link. I watched the 30 fps spinning for a good minute without problems and to adjust. No more than 5 seconds after switching to 60 fps, I had to turn it off. Of course, 60 fps is smoother, no doubt, but I don't see the extreme benefit seeing as 30 fps is also smooth. And seeing as I get the motion sickness at 60.

I don't play on consoles and 30 fps on the PC (well, laptop) is fine to me. No choppiness, no pauses. It goes smoothly and I have zero problems with playing games on 30 fps. Perhaps after a while I could get used to 60, but the motion sickness can really get to me. Sometimes I also get it when there are blur filters and those motion filters. I turn that shit off immediately if the option is available and I can only beg the developers to put that option in. I remember the blur when turning the camera could not be turned off in the new Tomb Raider and I would get the sickness after two-three hours of continuous playing (which usually isn't the problem in games that don't have that).

 

[ThreeName]

I remember reading a Nintendo Gamer mag back when the Gamecube had just been released, and they were shitting on Need For Sped: Hot Pursuit 2 for only having 30fps.

So yes, I find this situation where the "next gen" is limited to 30fps hilarious as well.

I also love all of the "But it doesn't matter!" who apparently don't see the humour in companies pushing to be "the best" and claiming they are constantly taking massive leaps forward when they can't even increase the fucking frame rate.

 

[RedDeadFred]

Sweet. Why don't I notice the difference between playing on my PC at 3 feet and playing on my TV at 10 feet then?

Seriously.

I mentioned that in the final part of my post, people who don't want or care to notice the difference between red and blue just won't. For those who do care to notice however it becomes impossible to not see it.

Honestly, I don't notice the difference unless being shown two examples of the same game, one after the other. For example, I didn't realize that League of Legends ran at 60 FPS until I read it in this very thread. I play League quite a bit as well as many other PC games, yet I still frequently go back to my console for games that I couldn't get on PC. After playing a game of League, I may go and play some console game and I wouldn't notice the difference at all. Maybe it's because I am so used to both FPS that going from one to the other isn't a big deal to me, but I could see how the change would be quite jarring if you were used to only one of them.

SARCASM ALERT!
It's also possible that I am just superior to you and am therefore able to subconsciously adjust my eyes for any demand that video games bring to them. Mortals are so sad.
SARCASM OVER!

 

[hazabaza1]

I honestly can't understand how people don't see the difference.
Like... is it a force of habit thing, can they legitimately not see it or do they just not know the difference? I grew up playing 30fps games on console but the moment I saw one at 60fps I knew there was something different to them.
It also kinda ticks me off when people just willingly admit to not caring when they could clearly be getting a better experience. Like, Assassin's Creed Unity, saying they're going to stick to 30fps when AC3+4 next gen (they both had next-gen right?) ran at 60 fine, from what I remember. There's not some big graphical update that's going to stop them, and I highly doubt Assassin's Creed is going to have some really complicated AI that confounds things.

 

[sneakypenguin]

I think its just not being exposed to better. 4 years ago when I got a 800 dollar gaming PC 2 days later I couldn't play my 360 all the texture pop in lack of effects, low rez low framerate was just so drastically jarring.

Now I'll play 30fps on my old rig if its single player and the graphics are maxed out, but I'm gonna spend 300 bucks and buy a new card that hammers console specs again and get back to 60 fps no matter what.

 

[Thoughtful_Salt]

I'm just used to it. Until I get a gaming PC with some serious hardware behind it, that's the way it shall stay. If the game feels and controls great, and the framerate doesn't tank below 20 then I don't hold it against the game too much if it's only 30fps.