Update: Fan "Fixes" Mass Effect 3 Ending With A 539-Page Rewrite
- Thread starter Josh Engen
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You don't understand that "seeing some problems" does not have to lead to a negative verdict on balance.the hidden eagle said:
I have some basic knowledge of storytelling too and I see some of the writing problems too (I'm seeing much more of them in Mass Effect 2, which no one seems to talk about, but that's another story). But it is just not all that I care about. I care about the deeper themes, the deeper questions too, and those really make all the difference for me.
Does that make my understanding deeper as someone else's who just cares about superficial storytelling problems? If I followed your logic, I might feel inclined to make such a claim.
Appealing to authority, I see. I could retort with Film Critic Hulk defending ME3's ending, and that he clearly understands more about storytelling than many others, but that would be equally cheap.
Does Film Critic Hulk have a degree in literature and teaches a literary class at a unniversity?If not then his opinion does'nt take precedence over someone who does study the subject for a living.[/quote]the hidden eagle said:
First, me having a degree in economics never prevented anyone from arguing my statements, so there's that.
Second, no one knows who Hulk really is, but he's obviously educated in the subject, and he studies it for a living too, as movie critic.
But all of that is a bit beside my point, because what you're doing is pretty much a https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/appeal-to-authority
...
Um... what exactly was the point of this? I mean, it's neat and all, but... when I saw the thread, and the download link, I was like "oh! A Mod! Neat! That might be worth replaying ME3 on my PC for!"
And then it was a pdf, with the information for a mod that doesn't appear to actually exist.
I guess I'm failing to understand the point? Yes, it would be cool if all this additional dialogue (and other stuff) was in the game. However, I guess I'm not seeing the point of reading about all these cool features that this guy would like to put in the game, but hasn't actually done so.
Can anyone give me a hint here? Cause, seriously, I'm feel like I'm missing something here.
Note: I'm currently on page 110.
Um... what exactly was the point of this? I mean, it's neat and all, but... when I saw the thread, and the download link, I was like "oh! A Mod! Neat! That might be worth replaying ME3 on my PC for!"
And then it was a pdf, with the information for a mod that doesn't appear to actually exist.
I guess I'm failing to understand the point? Yes, it would be cool if all this additional dialogue (and other stuff) was in the game. However, I guess I'm not seeing the point of reading about all these cool features that this guy would like to put in the game, but hasn't actually done so.
Can anyone give me a hint here? Cause, seriously, I'm feel like I'm missing something here.
Note: I'm currently on page 110.
So... it's elaborate fanfiction? Don't get me wrong, that's cool, but it's not really news: there are literally hundreds (thousands?) of fan-written endings floating around the internet, this one just happens to be a bit more... comprehensive... than some of the others.
More newsworthy would be the MEHEM (Mass Effect Happy Ending Mod) [http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/368/index/14795358/1], that has been available for ages. An actual mod for the game that changes the ending, giving a fairly simple resolution that, as the name suggests, gives a happy ending without any of the Starbaby, ABC nonsense the game gave us.
It's far inferior to what the ME ending should have been like, but it's so much more satisfying than the actual ending from a storytelling point of view it's ridiculous, and one hell of an effort on the behalf of the person who made it.
More newsworthy would be the MEHEM (Mass Effect Happy Ending Mod) [http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/368/index/14795358/1], that has been available for ages. An actual mod for the game that changes the ending, giving a fairly simple resolution that, as the name suggests, gives a happy ending without any of the Starbaby, ABC nonsense the game gave us.
It's far inferior to what the ME ending should have been like, but it's so much more satisfying than the actual ending from a storytelling point of view it's ridiculous, and one hell of an effort on the behalf of the person who made it.
Wow!
That was a long read, but I gotta say I loved it. Sure some of it was a bit superfluous; the extra class and some of the extra missions for characters who really didn't need it (although some, like Kal Reager, did). but as a whole work? great. His Rachni bit was pretty much exactly what I thought Bioware should have done as soon as I went through the Rachni mission as written.
Gotta say though that his Shepard Survived - Control Ending would have been the most grim ending to any story ever. In all time. Not that I mind grim stories but that would have been painful.
The only change of my own that I would add to his changes would have been to remove Kai Leng & James Vega from the game entirely, but then that's me.
That was a long read, but I gotta say I loved it. Sure some of it was a bit superfluous; the extra class and some of the extra missions for characters who really didn't need it (although some, like Kal Reager, did). but as a whole work? great. His Rachni bit was pretty much exactly what I thought Bioware should have done as soon as I went through the Rachni mission as written.
Gotta say though that his Shepard Survived - Control Ending would have been the most grim ending to any story ever. In all time. Not that I mind grim stories but that would have been painful.
The only change of my own that I would add to his changes would have been to remove Kai Leng & James Vega from the game entirely, but then that's me.
And you think my life is happier in threads like these being told every time Mass Effect comes up that it's all shit and has no redeeming qualities whatsoever - i.e. implying that I'm liking shit?the hidden eagle said:
I've been discussing this in the past, I did provide specific reasons, sometimes the discussions were interesting, but often futile. I could explain, and I wasn't the only one, not by far. But it didn't matter if I write pages about what I like, adressing some criticisms explaining how I disagree on them and why, and acknowledging what I didn't like myself (of which there was plenty), many people had already made up their minds long ago and weren't open the least to other points of views. Not agreeing with me, mind, just understanding that yea you can see some things a different way too, you can weight different matters differently, and therefore come to a different overall conclusions. And, no, these people rarely were professors of literature, of that I'm sure.
That was especially true when I tried to talk about not the surface, the storytelling mechanics, specific characters, plot holes ore the like, but the deeper themes and meanings. I could elaborate on that for pages, yet still get responses as sophisticated as 'herp derp no no meaning whatsoever'.
So don't come me with mature.
On a more general note, it seems to be pretty en vogue to make a sport out of finding plot holes, story inconsistencies and the like in movies these days, combined with a sentiment of superiority: I'm so smart to see all these holes, everyone who enjoys a movie anyway must be doing so because he's too dumb to see them too.
But they're not. If you're enthralled enough by a story, you can forgive many a flaw in this department. And a movie is not necessarily bad for it. You could make a similar argument for the Mass Effect ending: Many people were simply enthralled by Mass Effect, and the flaws were not enough to break the spell (completely). But they're not ignorant for it, they're not dumb for it, and it doesn't mean they have no idea about storytelling.
And since I already went on a little tangent with movies here, you know, let me just mention Avatar, which I watched again recently. I still like it, it still touched me, but that doesn't mean that I didn't want to rip my hair out several times about some characters and story elements. Yes, that is possible. Now would I mind anyone not liking Avatar? Of course not. But do I mind anyone belittling me because I like it anyway? Yes I would.
I played with this mod once, and it wasn't bad. But at the end of the day I missed learning the truth about the reapers and pondering about the morality of the final decision and what it all means a great deal, so deinstalled it again afterwards.Bebus said:
For some people the deeper themes make a ridiculous difference, and those will whince at any demand of just removing all of that. Well, at least this fanfic author didn't do that.
Yeah the ending sucked, get over it. Fuck its pathetic how people go on about it. Me, i bought ME1 and 2 again before 3 was released to get ready for 3. So yeah, the ending sucked loads for me spending all that money. Sucky ending, but its still just a game, people are acting like their kids have been killed. If the ending is the most disappointing thing in your life then you have major issues.
Yes get over it forget about and buy more crap because you got over it and forgot and bout crap that's worse than the crap you bought before. Its a slippery slope if you do not complain then things will always get worse.SonOfVoorhees said:
I did. Bought first game and DLC. ME2 and DLC. I remember when the net was arguing in the ME vs Too Human trilogy arguments. It was a disappointment, i agree, but then i have had that with books and movies. A bad ending sucks. I agree. But after all these months people are that affected? Like personally effected? Your life is destroyed? Its a game, play something else, people are just over dramatic. For me, the ending sucked, but the gameplay getting there was good. An games are about gameplay. Especially, like me, when i started gaming the best you got was a screen saying "Well done, you won" and that was it.the hidden eagle said:
I loved the journey to the end. The end sucked, but does that mean the journey with the 3 games sucked? I played games where all you got was a screen that said "well done you completed the game" thats it. Im sure your as disappointment as i was with the ending, but whatever, its a game. Same as watching a crappy DVD or listening to a shitty CD. It sucks, why spend you life bitching about it again and again as if its wounded you permanently. Its pathetic. Move on.ZippyDSMlee said:
Aw man come on, this is a bit much.
I hated the ME3 ending as much as the next person. Not "scream and shout and act as if Bioware killed my puppy" levels of hate, but I was genuinely disappointed and upset with it. I cried at the ending, and not in the way the developers might have been hoping. I have my own "head canon" ending, and the Extended Cut added enough to make it bearable for me, though I still prefer to pretend the official ending didn't happen. I'll be extremely wary of Bioware's marketing in future.
But spending a year and a bit writing a 500+ page fanfic? Really? I mean, it's up to him how he spends his time of course, but I can't help but wonder what else this guy could have spent all this time and effort on...
I hated the ME3 ending as much as the next person. Not "scream and shout and act as if Bioware killed my puppy" levels of hate, but I was genuinely disappointed and upset with it. I cried at the ending, and not in the way the developers might have been hoping. I have my own "head canon" ending, and the Extended Cut added enough to make it bearable for me, though I still prefer to pretend the official ending didn't happen. I'll be extremely wary of Bioware's marketing in future.
But spending a year and a bit writing a 500+ page fanfic? Really? I mean, it's up to him how he spends his time of course, but I can't help but wonder what else this guy could have spent all this time and effort on...
Yes it sucked. Get over it, move on and play other games. Im not saying it didnt sucked, but the fact it effected you so much that over a year later it still effected you. Sorry, but thats just weird and you have issues. Its over, its done, move on. Lets wait till ME4 then ***** about that.the hidden eagle said: