Update: Fez Dev Tells Media Member To Kill Himself

[Vigormortis]

But both of them do only come out from the woodwork when they want attention. Beer was calling them out for just that.

Even if that be the case, it doesn't change the fact that Mr. Beer is a douche bag. The lowest, scum-sucking tosser of the gaming journalist breed.

Besides, there're different ways to "call someone out" on something.

There's the well-tempered, mature, level-headed, and sharp-minded way. Then there's the ill-tempered, immature, confrontational, and dim-witted way.

A decent journalist; one who isn't a twat; would use the former method. Mr. Beer seems to relish in using the latter.

So like I said in my previous post: Marcus Beer can fuck right off.

Besides, I find this communities knee-jerk response to the whole affair far more depressing and aggravating than the clearly biased article or the affair itself.

It's not so much a lack of humor as the reference being just obscure enough that people who aren't avid followers of the show wouldn't get it; I should know, I missed it myself.

And given the way the guy has reacted to other subjects in the past, it's not beyond reasonable to assume he meant something like that seriously.

I can't see even Phil Fish saying that and actually meaning it.

And yes, the quote is obscure enough to fly over most heads. That much has been made clear with the overreaction of much of the community to this whole debacle.

However, I think most of us have been too quick to side with Marcus Beer simply because of our already-present dislike of Phil Fish.

Like I said to the poster above, Mr. Beers comments were as childish and confrontational as Mr. Fishs; if not more so.

In fact, even though I've very little (if any) respect for Phil Fish, I actually find myself siding with him on this one. His response was a bit too torrid, admittedly, but I honestly think Mr. Beer deserved it.

I mean, we're quick to lambast game designers and industry people for rude comments and actions, especially when the critics point them out to us. Yet, we rarely if ever hold the critics responsible for their own comments or actions.

Unless, of course, that critic is making fun of something we like. Then it's 'war'.

 

[poiuppx]

Fish's attitude and lack of social graces were my main reason for holding off on purchasing Fez, in spite of the praise it had gotten. This outburst has changed my views very little, and only in the downward direction.

 

[Skeleon]

I see he keeps getting in trouble with people from a wide variety of places. I may be wrong here, but to my knowledge McMillen isn't on the best of terms, either, so it's not just an issue with "the evil media". Maybe Fish is just a dick?

 

[RaikuFA]

But both of them do only come out from the woodwork when they want attention. Beer was calling them out for just that.

Even if that be the case, it doesn't change the fact that Mr. Beer is a douche bag. The lowest, scum-sucking tosser of the gaming journalist breed.

Besides, there're different ways to "call someone out" on something.

There's the well-tempered, mature, level-headed, and sharp-minded way. Then there's the ill-tempered, immature, confrontational, and dim-witted way.

A decent journalist; one who isn't a twat; would use the former method. Mr. Beer seems to relish in using the latter.

So like I said in my previous post: Marcus Beer can fuck right off.

Besides, I find this communities knee-jerk response to the whole affair far more depressing and aggravating than the clearly biased article or the affair itself.

It's not so much a lack of humor as the reference being just obscure enough that people who aren't avid followers of the show wouldn't get it; I should know, I missed it myself.

And given the way the guy has reacted to other subjects in the past, it's not beyond reasonable to assume he meant something like that seriously.

I can't see even Phil Fish saying that and actually meaning it.

And yes, the quote is obscure enough to fly over most heads. That much has been made clear with the overreaction of much of the community to this whole debacle.

However, I think most of us have been too quick to side with Marcus Beer simply because of our already-present dislike of Phil Fish.

Like I said to the poster above, Mr. Beers comments were as childish and confrontational as Mr. Fishs; if not more so.

In fact, even though I've very little (if any) respect for Phil Fish, I actually find myself siding with him on this one. His response was a bit too torrid, admittedly, but I honestly think Mr. Beer deserved it.

I mean, we're quick to lambast game designers and industry people for rude comments and actions, especially when the critics point them out to us. Yet, we rarely if ever hold the critics responsible for their own comments or actions.

Unless, of course, that critic is making fun of something we like. Then it's 'war'.

Oh definetly hes also an ass, it just seems like people keep going "Beers the worst, he's picking on a developer who's done nothing wrong." It's like the bully beating up the guy who won't stop talking down to everyone and thinking he's better than everyone. Yeah you still hate the bully, but that kid really needed his ass kicked.

 

[klaynexas3]

Well at least he knows when to get out of something if it's not good for himself. Even so, maybe he could try a different approach, like being an anonymous indie developer. Then, when he gets pissed off at people on the internet, he can say it as himself, in which case, no one will listen, nor care, and thus not hurl any more shit at him for that. At any rate, he's definitely got some problems he needs to work on himself. And if he truly has a love of games, then after he gets his own problems sorted out, my bet is he'll come back. Or maybe he's a giant attention whore and just wanted to become internet famous, so he decided the best way to do it was to make a game.

 

[Rad Party God]

What a whiny little *****.
Good riddance I say, his shitty game was a poor attempt at being artsy fartsy anyways.

 

[Alhazred]

Interesting bit of obscure Phil Fish trivia for you.

Fez was nominated for best Indie Game in some award ceremony or another, along with with The Binding of Isaac. I'm not entirely sure of the details (I'm remembering this from the Tvtropes article on Isaac), but I think Fish voted against Isaac. Edmund McMillen wasn't happy about his game being insulted, but thankfully is mature enough not to take to Twitter to start a flame war. Instead, he gave one of the characters in Isaac a little Fez as a nod to Fish.

But here's the rub; that character is called Judas. So you see, even fellow indie developers can't stand Fish.

 

[Riobux]

Well I meant to say it is easy to spot it and manage it... it is less easy to act on those managements. I mean I've been seeing psychologists nonstop for the past 5 years, taking the same anti-depressant medication... it is a long, arduous process. But the first step is noticing and getting yourself in - and that bit is only as hard as you believe it to be. That's what I meant to say.

I want to say, I'm really sorry I've dragged this out. I'm not so much upset or offended by your views... I'm more fascinated. I guess I've taught myself to think this way because it's what's kept my neck out of a noose; I believe that suicide is a selfish act because that helps me to not do it. It's what my parents told me. I really can't leave them alone if I can help it, y'know?

As for Phil Fish though... you say that nothing of value would be lost if he killed himself. This is where I kind of assumed you lacked empathy - there's a strain in there of "I don't mind if he kills himself, because I don't care about him." And my response, well, he's human - someone, somewhere cares about him. His life gives value to someone. Hell, he's a creative - I know I loved FEZ along with quite a few other people... is that not a value?

It's the idea that "nothing of value is lost [to me]" that kind of made me consider you might be a bit on the nihilistic side, lacking a bit of compassion, or the ability to put value on people's lives beyond what they can offer (or have offered) to you. That's why I leapt at you; you've proven this is merely a difference of opinion, though, not something more insidious as I had incorrectly assumed.

It's totally fine. It's an interesting discussion pretty much, and I'm glad it was just a discussion and not a full blown argument. With regards to it helping you during your dark moments, that's really fair enough. I've had a few moments, and usually the fear of the unknown has been enough to make me chicken out. It's now a case where I see being alive akin to purgatory, but I'll live. Would I seek help? Eh, no. I see the pessimism and cynicism as helpful in an academic field that is pretty much all about criticising society and humanity. Not to mention, as weird as it sounds, I get the feeling I'd lose my true self by being told there is a correct way to be and a wrong way to be. There's also the fact it'd end up on a medical record and hurt job prospects. There's a few other reasons but it gets more tedious, such as the paranoia of the difference between depression and the normal human experience.

Is it value to me that others enjoyed Fez? Not particularly. I don't mind what others enjoy or don't enjoy. It doesn't really affect me too greatly. However, I don't doubt that to others the fact that Fez has fascinated so many people is of great value to them, but to me it's not something that interests me greatly. After all, I'm sure some games I love would inspire a look of confusion or possibly even ire in others such as Kane & Lynch: Dead Men. It helps to not get too invested in other's opinions.

I will admit though I do lack compassion in comparison to most people I think. It's hard to pin down very particular examples, but I tend to be the type of person who would look the other way than help someone.

 

[LordMonty]

Well this could be more stupid and offensive but everyone would have get more emotionally involved. No loss to gaming, Fez was 'ok' so we'll live without another.

 

[Rossmallo]

Wow. I'm usually never happy to see a game get shut down (You should have SEEN how I reacted when Radical and by proxy a potential Prototype 3 got canned), but...I have absoloutly no sympathy for this dude. He acted like a complete twonk and paid the price for it, showing how utterly immature he is in the process and sullying the name of his game forever.

And before anyone wheels out the "The amount of abuse he got made him do this" argument, go take a look at the Runescape forums. Seriously, after you finish reading this, go and read them. What I am about to say is not hyperbole at all: the community is about five times worse than 4chan, all centered on a single target. I legitimately think that if I was in the devs' position my entire stomach would be one big ulser if I had to endure that sort of vitriol, but Jagex keeps a level of professionalism, level-headedness and politeness that a saint running a multimillion company would.

So saying that he was justified in his actions before he was complained at is a copout.

 

[Adfest]

We've all said cruel things to others whether they deserve it or not. Anyone who claims they haven't are lying. Telling someone who is antagonizing you to kill themselves doesn't make you "not human". Immature and reactive maybe, but it doesn't make you the scourge of humanity.

It's obvious that Fish has social issues and a temper. Anyone who trolls him is no better than him at his worst. Yeah, great job! You got a negative reaction out of him and he made an ass of himself yet again. I could easily make someone with anger issues wig out if I try hard enough. Does that make them the shithead, or me?

If he doesn't like making Fez II and wants to call it quits, that's his choice regardless of the circumstances. There's no reason for an indi developer to make a game they don't really want to make. If he hated it that much it's probably for the best anyway. It's not that this guy is a politician or a cop who should be held to a higher standard than the rest of us. Cut the guy a break.

 

[Lovely Mixture]

I think there needs to be a corprate bi-law or something, that prevents employees from having Twitter accounts. Cause nothing good ever seems to come from it.

Might as well annihilate Twitter outright.

That or a "you have this much common sense to register account with us" thing (it's funny cause most celebrities who use twitter don't seem to have that much).

 

[Bluestorm83]

This puts me in a rare situation. I don't even give enough of a shit about any of this, because neither of these people matter at all to me since one is someone I've never met and the other is someone I've never met, and yet not saying anything might give people the impression that I don't know about this.

But I do know about this. I don't care how rich or successful one is, I don't care if the other offs himself, I don't even have any confirmation that either of them exist. Non story.

 

[shrekfan246]

However, I think most of us have been too quick to side with Marcus Beer simply because of our already-present dislike of Phil Fish.

I'm not on either side, myself.

Beer was an ass.

Fish has done things to deserve it--Aside from the low blows Beer took, he had a point that Jon Blow and Phil Fish are extremely prominent members of indie gaming, and as such should be prepared for the media asking them questions about indie development and the treatment indie developers get. If they're going to talk up their own games as the coming of Christ in gaming form, they should be willing to answer questions not about themselves or their games, or they should be prepared to take criticism for how they spurn the media.

Fish overreacted (in my opinion) to Beer's use of the words "tosspot" and "hipster", and announcing that he's cancelling development of the game just screams of childishness to me. But some people take the internet hate machine more seriously than others, and so at the same time I feel bad that the vitriol has managed to push a likely talented developer out of the field entirely by constantly hounding him, whether he's made stupid or arrogant comments in the past or not.

 

[EHKOS]

I can see a meme of Fish just staring angrily at Bryan Cranston.

While I can see fighting back is fair, it wasn't a huge insult, and while you could call him a parasite or a twat, telling someone to kill themselves is a bit over the line.

I didn't like Fez myself but my heart goes out to the people looking forwards to it.

 

[ben---neb]

Ok, so he got angry, lost it and said exaggerated angry things. This is a bad thing. But we've all said things we regret. It would be nice if we all cut him some slack. I doubt he actually wants the person in question to kill themselves.

Also:

We've all said cruel things to others whether they deserve it or not. Anyone who claims they haven't are lying. Telling someone who is antagonizing you to kill themselves doesn't make you "not human". Immature and reactive maybe, but it doesn't make you the scourge of humanity.

It's obvious that Fish has social issues and a temper. Anyone who trolls him is no better than him at his worst. Yeah, great job! You got a negative reaction out of him and he made an ass of himself yet again. I could easily make someone with anger issues wig out if I try hard enough. Does that make them the shithead, or me?

If he doesn't like making Fez II and wants to call it quits, that's his choice regardless of the circumstances. There's no reason for an indi developer to make a game they don't really want to make. If he hated it that much it's probably for the best anyway. It's not that this guy is a politician or a cop who should be held to a higher standard than the rest of us. Cut the guy a break.

Thank you sir for being reasonable.

 

[Paradoxrifts]

I just got a report back from my doctor, and it looks like I'm completely free of sympathy for either of these two assholes.

Only a cretin dishes out more than they can take.

 

[orangeapples]

I know how to fix the game industry. Lets remove everyone in the industry who are childish and idiots. Then when nobody is around to be making games anymore there will be no more bad games.

I love the people in these comments >_>

 

[thebobmaster_v1legacy]

I commented earlier, but having some time to calm down, and see things work out, here's what I have to say.

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with people siding with Fish. After all, what Beers said was a bit over the line. Maybe the Futurama reference was unnecessary, and should have been left out, especially one as obscure as that one is.

That aside, if any AAA developer were to say something like this in response to a critic like Beers, how many people would be supporting the developer? Probably not the same number supporting Fish? Why is that? Is it because he should be given a free pass because he only makes games for fun, not for a living? Fact is, he is making money on Fez. As soon as that became a source of income for him, he became a video game developer, and should be held to the same professional standards as one.

 

[Ticklefist]

He made half a million dollars this month. He ain't leaving games. He should see someone about his impulse control issues tho.