UPDATE: Penny Arcade Smacks Down Shady PR Dude

[Bostur]

I tend to agree with Gabe here. This guy isn't sorry for what he did. He's sorry that he got caught. He's sorry that he angered one of the most powerful people in the industry that doesn't actually work within the industry. He's sorry that he is in trouble, not that he did anything wrong. And I tend to agree with Gabe about that. Feeling sorry that you are in trouble is not the same as being sorry for your actions. Gabe states that he doesn't like bullies, which is what he feels this guy is, and acknowledges that he might be one in this case, too. But at least he's a bully of bullies. Or a vampire that feeds on assholes. Whatever you like better.

I disagree. Gabe has simply gotten the means to become a bully himself and chose that path. Thats usually how people become bullies, most likely also the ones that picked on Gabe.

At this point it seems more like personal revenge for his childhood.

I'm siding with Sicxess as well, it's a legal matter. Not a matter for an internet mob.

 

[TownTattle]

The internet at it's worst. Once again the internet lynch mob has gone too far and is now embarrassing itself.

 

[Sixcess]

image snip

it would appear gabe is enjoying this turn of events.

And this is the moment when PA lost any tenuous claim they might have had to the moral high ground.

I don't know what's happening here. Whether it's PA working this story for traffic and lulz, or whether Krahulik is working out some childhood trauma on an available target. Either way, this guy was never a threat to them, and this... this is just fuelling the rage of the mob.

Admitting that you might be being a bully doesn't make it right, and if that second email was written sincerely then Penny Arcade should be flat out fucking ashamed of themselves for perpetuating this.

 

[JenSeven]

For the people defending this guy, here's something to think about.

He represented a company that made a product designed for people and children with disabilities.
What if he treated those people with the same kind of attitude that he treated Dave with?
What if he said the same sort of things to people, children and parents of those children that he said to Dave?
What if Dave was a person that suffered from a disability like that? That he needed that controller in order to game?

Would you defend that sort of person?

 

[Rainforce]

I assume (and thus risking making an ASS out of U and ME) that you would term justice as an eye for an eye. I do not agree - death is far too easy an escape, that hard time to be forced to understand what they have done is far greater. But I'm moving off point.

well, it would mean that the pain you caused is the pain you need to suffer as well (for me).
Considering this, nobody should ever be killed.

It is also worth remembering that in most cases vigilante justice is decided simply by the perpetrator who is the boldest of the anonymous mob mentality (like explained here) rather than centuries of amassed laws, statutes and conventions.
I know which I'd rather be judged by.

Furthermore vigilantes are more often than not completely misinformed and lacking in perspective. It is an unacceptable form of behaviour from anyone, least of all from a fan base who revel in their intellect.

sadly, I must agree to this, although I think it's technically not evil/bad/wrong to try to rectify what one sees as wrong in the world. Also, or so it seems in most of the cases, if the person/mob/whatever learns why they are actually in the wrong, they try to do something about that (like all the positive reviews on the amazon site for the controller now, for example)
so I think this is overall better than a system that relies on individuals judging people with their limited knowledge. There's just not enough time/information available to achieve "justice" in either ways, and I think I prefer the one where all people have to say something in it, instead of one individual. Because one individual(or a small group) can make bad choices because he/she/they has a bad day. The same just isn't the case for a crowd with many different opinions.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

For the people defending this guy, here's something to think about.

He represented a company that made a product designed for people and children with disabilities.
What if he treated those people with the same kind of attitude that he treated Dave with?
What if he said the same sort of things to people, children and parents of those children that he said to Dave?
What if Dave was a person that suffered from a disability like that? That he needed that controller in order to game?

Would you defend that sort of person?

Not that I'm defending the guy, but 'what ifs' are not the same as 'has done'.

Let's try and keep this in perspective people.

Supposition won't get us anywhere.

 

[Jdb]

For the people defending this guy, here's something to think about.

He represented a company that made a product designed for people and children with disabilities.
What if he treated those people with the same kind of attitude that he treated Dave with?
What if he said the same sort of things to people, children and parents of those children that he said to Dave?
What if Dave was a person that suffered from a disability like that? That he needed that controller in order to game?

Would you defend that sort of person?

No one is defending him. Everyone believes he deserves punishment. But a number of people know what the Internet mob is doing is disproportionate to the crime. I can't think of a time when a mob didn't take things too far.

 

[JenSeven]

For the people defending this guy, here's something to think about.

He represented a company that made a product designed for people and children with disabilities.
What if he treated those people with the same kind of attitude that he treated Dave with?
What if he said the same sort of things to people, children and parents of those children that he said to Dave?
What if Dave was a person that suffered from a disability like that? That he needed that controller in order to game?

Would you defend that sort of person?

Not that I'm defending the guy, but 'what ifs' are not the same as 'has done'.

Let's try and keep this in perspective people.

Supposition won't get us anywhere.

Well, we have two cases of him acting the same way towards two different people who asked him a question regarding the product (Nate and Dave) THEN we have testimonials from industry folk who talk about what a thug he is...

I would say it is highly likely he already acted this way toward numerous others.

Those people are maybe too intimidated by this thug to come forward. Who knowns how many others there are that have been verbally brutalized into silence by this guy.
Dave and Nate are two very brave guys to come forward with their dealings with Paul, since he has their personal information and creditcard numbers among other things. Others may not have been that brave.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

For the people defending this guy, here's something to think about.

He represented a company that made a product designed for people and children with disabilities.
What if he treated those people with the same kind of attitude that he treated Dave with?
What if he said the same sort of things to people, children and parents of those children that he said to Dave?
What if Dave was a person that suffered from a disability like that? That he needed that controller in order to game?

Would you defend that sort of person?

Not that I'm defending the guy, but 'what ifs' are not the same as 'has done'.

Let's try and keep this in perspective people.

Supposition won't get us anywhere.

Well, we have two cases of him acting the same way towards two different people who asked him a question regarding the product (Nate and Dave) THEN we have testimonials from industry folk who talk about what a thug he is...

I would say it is highly likely he already acted this way toward numerous others.

You're probably right, but being an arse towards the disabled does not make someone any more/less of an arse unless said disability is the target of mockery.

If I call someone a ****, I'm not suddenly a worse person if that someone happens to be in a wheelchair.

 

[GoddyofAus]

So the fuckwit messed with a Pitbull (Penny Arcade) that he thought was a Pomeranian, and now he's a jobless loser with a roid shrunken penis.

What a stupid fuck.

 

[Flying Dagger]

1. This Christoforo is an idiot, who liked to pretend he was powerful, was given a tiny bit of power and it went to his head. He is no real criminal and does not deserve half the crap going his way, to believe otherwise is to greatly exaggerate the situation in a way to justify whatever beliefs you hold.

2. The mob mentality is getting way out of control. (watch the derren brown episode if you get a chance, it's really really good). The post on penny arcade was enough to ruin his career. Exposing past convictions, or personal issues is purely vindictive and his use of piracy and copyright theft are matters of corporate law, not internet hate campaigns

3. this nerd rage is fueled by the idea that having been bullied they cannot be the bully This is also evident in Gabe's response to the apology. As much as dealing with bullies is important, wishing to see them suffer is not the correct reaction, all it does is change who is the bully and who is being bullied.

4. Vigilante justice is not smart and often acts without full knowledge of the situation. Look at the Amazon bombs. As much as people think they are being clever and productive, no one here knows the full story. The place where a full story would be examined is in a court, where all legal disputes should be settled.

5. Put aside your feelings towards this man and look at how vindictive the behaviour of everyone trying to destroy him is. It shows badly on our community, it shows badly on humanity itself.
Yes, it is nice that as a community we look after our own, but this is not what is going on here. This is a systemic and deliberate destruction of this man's life.
Know that should you bring him to the point where he ends his life, you, and everyone egging the mob on shall be responsible. (Go and watch the Derren Brown episode. Now.)

I hope that just a few people read this and have a serious think about what is going on here.
I hope they put aside the idea that because this man is "bad" doing anything "bad" to him is right. That may be how morality works in games, but it's not how morality works in real life.

 

[Saltyk]

I tend to agree with Gabe here. This guy isn't sorry for what he did. He's sorry that he got caught. He's sorry that he angered one of the most powerful people in the industry that doesn't actually work within the industry. He's sorry that he is in trouble, not that he did anything wrong. And I tend to agree with Gabe about that. Feeling sorry that you are in trouble is not the same as being sorry for your actions. Gabe states that he doesn't like bullies, which is what he feels this guy is, and acknowledges that he might be one in this case, too. But at least he's a bully of bullies. Or a vampire that feeds on assholes. Whatever you like better.

I disagree. Gabe has simply gotten the means to become a bully himself and chose that path. Thats usually how people become bullies, most likely also the ones that picked on Gabe.

At this point it seems more like personal revenge for his childhood.

I'm siding with Sicxess as well, it's a legal matter. Not a matter for an internet mob.

I can see where you're coming from, but I respectfully disagree. Gabe might be a bully in this case, but he's a bully of bullies. At no point in the email exchange did he get ugly or mean spirited. He simply stated that he wouldn't allow the guy to have a booth next year and clarified his position. It was Paul who crossed the line, long before Gabe got involved. You might argue that Dave is no innocent, but compared to Paul's actions, he wasn't bad.

And Paul maintained an insulting and demeaning attitude with Gabe. The most he did during the email exchange was clarify who he was and state that he would not permit Paul's company a booth at the next PAX or probably any PAX.

In the end, Gabe posted all the emails. But he removed all personal information when he did. If Paul had any semblance of decency or sense, things would not have come to this. Instead, he insulted customers, insulted the head of a convention, co-founder of a major web comic/charity and who knows what else.

Should Gabe have done it? Maybe not. But I don't feel sorry for Paul. He made his bed. Now, he can lie in it. If Gabe had tried to contact other news sources, the emails would still be published. No matter what, I feel like Gabe should have responded publicly on this. Be that publishing the emails himself or contacting other sources to get them to do so. Like it or not, doing nothing was worse than publishing the emails. He would have ignored the plea of a fellow gamer and reader of his comic. One who was being treated unfairly by a person who not only should have known better, but has an obligation to behave better.

If you ask me, having these emails published is punishment enough. I don't think anyone should do anything to Paul Christoforo personally, and I wish no harm to his family. But being able to read these emails and know what a jerk he is, satisfies me. If he loses his job over it, that is his own fault. And considering his demeanor in these emails, he deserves to. You know this is no isolated incident. Others just weren't smart enough to contact a major internet celebrity.

Like Gabe said, and I agreed. Paul is not sorry for his actions. At no point in those email exchanges does he say anything that would give you that impression.

This is the closest he came to an apology:

From: Ocean Marketing
To: Mike Krahulik
Dec 26, 2011 at 9:46 PM

Mike I'm not trying to fight with you I'm really not , you should give me the benefit of the doubt before judging over one person's bitching . Did I feed into his emails a little bit too much yeah ok . But it's one person dude for real. No disrespect intended for you , My name is good in this industry and I know a lot of people. I'll be at CES are you going ?

See, even in this he is still demeaning Dave. Calling his emails bitching and saying he fed into it a little too much. And there's the slightest hint of a threat here, too. "My name is good in this industry and I know a lot of people"? I can't read that as anything but an implied threat.

Gabe's reply of "Please remove me from this mailing list" is welcomed with this little love poem:

From: Ocean Marketing
To: Mike Krahulik
Dec 26, 2011 at 9:57 PM

Your spamming me you're not on a mailing list you idiot ! You sent me an email remember . Make sure you stir up a lot of controversy about us the more the better we needed some drama gets good blood flow going about the new product launch . Your sites amateur at best my son could put together a better site than yours and you run PAX ?? Wow , Ill put my marketing team on a smear campaign of you and your site and your emails , I have about 125 dedicated people to run PR , Blogs , Articles , Videos you have no clue who I am . Thanks again

Straight back to insults. Calling Gabe an idiot and calling the Penny Arcade site amateurish. Asking him to stir up a controversy (seriously he asked for this). And from an implied threat to an actual threat of a smear campaign. Why should I feel bad for this guy? Not only is he a jerk, he is getting exactly what he asked for right here!

 

[DaveHowe]

What makes me sad is the poor guys who made this controller are going to be really effected by this. And by what I've read it's actually a fantastic piece of equipment.

There's no need for the low rating on the product on Amazon and places, just because of this one arsehole.

I am in two minds about that.

On the plus side, yes, it looks to be a innovative and beneficial adapter to allow disabled kids fuller use of the PS3 game system. The original inventor did well, and no doubt his improved model will be even better.

-however-

The base company n-control has been consistently bad at meeting delivery targets; one prior marketing company (The HAND Media) claims to have dropped them as a client due to the poor PR impact of said missed targets (plus issues with Paul), over 8 months ago, and clearly they haven't taken that as a wake up call.

N-Control has only now decided that Ocean Market[t]ing are a liability outweighing their value; given the multiple reports online of customer complaints being mishandled and n-control having to step in and soothe the waters, this is not just a case of a bad judgement call blowing up in their faces, but of an ongoing and obvious risk ignored and good money thrown after bad (actually, its possible that the money was spent "up front" and n-c were just trying to get what they had paid for, like so many others in this saga, but even so)

N-Control appears to have accepted cash for product it couldn't supply; this is obviously a legal issue and merchant vendor issue that anyone affected might want to raise with their CC company, but also something it is fair to point out on amazon (where people should know reasonably that they could have their money pulled immediately but not expect to see product for some time, perhaps never if this turns out to be ponzi-funded and running in the red) - I would be concerned about that given they seem to be offering discounts for yet more advance orders, when they can't meet delivery deadlines on the products they have already taken hard cash for.

-So- potentially good product, but the best device advertised is still only vapourware until you get one in your hands.

 

[Brad Shepard]

I have got to say, despite everything that's happened, this is my favourite story this year. This fucker got what's coming to him and Mike managed to scare the fuck out of me while I agree with him completely. Seriously, I just love this far too much than I should.

Calumon: Is this a happy ending? I can't tell. :S

Wow, jack cursing, that is very rare, smack him calumon!

 

[varulfic]

I find this Christoforo guy very fascinating. His behavior goes well beyond normal costumer service incompetence... this guy must have some kind of condition. I would love to know more - what's his story? What's his problem? I hope they make some kind of documentary of him.

 

[Lieju]

?You have the power Mike Please make it stop?

That just makes me laugh.
He has no idea how Internet works, evidently.

The really ironic part though, is that Dave is on other sites telling people to go easy on Paul.

Wonder how it feels for the douche to have the person he wronged sticking up for him.

Speaking from experience, such a thing tends to aggravate bullies even more.

I find this Christoforo guy very fascinating. His behavior goes well beyond normal costumer service incompetence... this guy must have some kind of condition. I would love to know more - what's his story? What's his problem? I hope they make some kind of documentary of him.

http://kotaku.com/5871400/cut-paul-oceanmarketting-christoforo-a-breakhe-probably-just-has-roid-rage
If that's correct, he uses steroids and I wouldn't rule out some other substance abuse as well.
Or maybe he's just a douche.

 

[Bostur]

I can see where you're coming from, but I respectfully disagree. Gabe might be a bully in this case, but he's a bully of bullies. At no point in the email exchange did he get ugly or mean spirited. He simply stated that he wouldn't allow the guy to have a booth next year and clarified his position. It was Paul who crossed the line, long before Gabe got involved. You might argue that Dave is no innocent, but compared to Paul's actions, he wasn't bad.

And Paul maintained an insulting and demeaning attitude with Gabe. The most he did during the email exchange was clarify who he was and state that he would not permit Paul's company a booth at the next PAX or probably any PAX.

In the end, Gabe posted all the emails. But he removed all personal information when he did. If Paul had any semblance of decency or sense, things would not have come to this. Instead, he insulted customers, insulted the head of a convention, co-founder of a major web comic/charity and who knows what else.

Should Gabe have done it? Maybe not. But I don't feel sorry for Paul. He made his bed. Now, he can lie in it. If Gabe had tried to contact other news sources, the emails would still be published. No matter what, I feel like Gabe should have responded publicly on this. Be that publishing the emails himself or contacting other sources to get them to do so. Like it or not, doing nothing was worse than publishing the emails. He would have ignored the plea of a fellow gamer and reader of his comic. One who was being treated unfairly by a person who not only should have known better, but has an obligation to behave better.

If you ask me, having these emails published is punishment enough. I don't think anyone should do anything to Paul Christoforo personally, and I wish no harm to his family. But being able to read these emails and know what a jerk he is, satisfies me. If he loses his job over it, that is his own fault. And considering his demeanor in these emails, he deserves to. You know this is no isolated incident. Others just weren't smart enough to contact a major internet celebrity.

Like Gabe said, and I agreed. Paul is not sorry for his actions. At no point in those email exchanges does he say anything that would give you that impression.

Paul is clearly a hothead who is quick to resort to insults. But lets keep the perspective, this all started as a customer case about two controllers. Now it has escalated to something that could in theory turn out to get ugly for all parties. When someone succeeds to incite the crowd it's hard to turn back.

I understand why Gabe did it, and I somewhat symphatize with the reasons. But I don't sympathize with the methods. In this case I blame Kotaku and The Escapist just as much for uncritically being tools for personal revenge in a case that probably should have stayed in a closed circle.

 

[KeyMaster45]

Wow by the sound of it this guy just went off his rocker. Though I'll admit it's entertaining to watch a fool fling shit at random not really aware of the people he's targeting, or of the consequences that will come of it.