UPDATE: PS3 Hacker GeoHot Claims He's on Vacation

[theultimateend]

I really have a hard time believing people when they say "consumer rights" when most of the hacked PS3's will most likely be used to pirate

Ignoring the fact that anecdotal evidence is a shitty way to live your life I do have a question:

Is this what defines when an action is just or not? If 51% or more of the activities that come from a previous action are just, does that mean the previous action was just?

What if only 49% of the people using his cracks were pirating?

Finally since this all happened how have Sony's sales been doing? I would presume since companies like Nintendo blame 100% of their sales loss on Piracy and that in the UK that is causing them a 50% reduction in sales that the PS3 being cracked must have lead to a similar loss.

I find it improbable with all this rampant Piracy that PS3 game makers will even exist by years end.

I personally run by the policy that if a game isn't worth my money ( a physical manifestation of time lost to a job), it isn't worth my time (the raw currency of my time off). But that doesn't stop me from finding these vitriolic and largely empty rages against piracy obnoxious.

You aren't raging mind you, but your one liner is very popular.

Makes me wonder, considering how many criminals use cars in their operations why we haven't started suing automakers.

 

[structurally_insane]

...

This battle was already won, GeoHot. It was already won, because the idea of leasing somebody a console or a game is absurd.

But you fucked it up. You fucked it up by running away and tampering with evidence even though the truth would have set you (and all of us) free without a doubt. You have set fair use back by doing this. You are making us look like cowards and criminals.

Come back. Fight your battles. Listen to your attorneys.

Come back and we will support you. Keep running, and you'll only hurt us all.

we will support you? Don't you dare imply that I'd ever support someone not only encourages computer game piracy, but outright enables it. YOU will support him, maybe, but certainly not me. i don't want to see a future in which companies like Sony or Microsoft don't make computer games or consoles because they won't make money from it, I actually enjoy gaming. Support what Geohot did and you'll be supporting a gameless future.

 

[Leafy-Cod]

i cant quite get my head around the argument :S it seems to me that its quite reasonable for Sony to do this. They are protecting their investment. If someone made a key that could open any car door but said it was so people could just have one key for all their cars, damn right the car companys would stop it, coz their cars would get stolen sure as hell! i find it very hard to see what Sony did wrong. Geohotz did nothing wrong either, it was a challenge for him yeah, but he released it on the internet, mistake. People take up manufacturers challenges to hack their chips all the time, but do they release the way to do it? no, coz its a fucking silly idea.

 

[mirasiel]

>implying that Geohot didn't book and pay for the vacation back in November
>implying that airlines and vacation companies will refund your money in any case short of the apocalypse

FFS people, look at the timeline here.

So I assume the restaurants, drinks and taxis were paid for in November as well? He is spending money that he should be using to pay for his defense bill, instead of having his supporters pay for them.

THAT GREEDY SONOFABITCH, WHY I BET HE IS BUYING FOOD DAY TO DAY AND PAYING HIS OWN HOUSEHOLD BILLS AND TRANSPORT COSTS!

CLEARLY HE SHOULD BE PUTTING EVERY PENNY HE HAS TO THE CASE, LIVING IN A CARDBOARD BOX AND EATING DEAD RATS!

Or you know accepting donations from his supporters to fight a good test case against a megacorp so that he doesnt die as a malnourished hobo before the case is over and Sony win by default.

I believe that he paid for this holiday well in advance, probably saved a little spending money that would equate to about 2 hours and piss break with a lawyer, I doubt that 10k will actually cover the totality of his legal fees by the way.

 

[sulld1]

Wow silly silly move... i was kinda rooting for the guy, i feel like an arse now... o well

 

[michael87cn]

[/quote] My family barely gets by but I myself had a job (yup i still live with my family) and saved some money from that. It cost me about 350 euro's so because I went on vacation with my friends.(I was 17) at that i age i must be wealthy enough to pay for a lawsuit that is going to cost at least $10000? Please think at how much both will cost. And wether being able to pay for a vacation means yours able to pay for a lawsuit.[/quote]

Like I said, it's more a matter of principle than cost to begin with. If you behave like a criminal you'll be seen as one.

And your analogy is bad. You living with your parents allows you a lot of financial leeway those that live on our own don't have. You also went with your friends I see so I'm sure you split the bills somehow. Additionally, I never said he should have to outright pay a whopping 10,00000000 lawyer bill, but to GET A LOAN for his OWN EXPENSES.

It's not like he's supporting a just cause here. No one really NEEDS to go about tampering with their PS3.

I support people messing with whats THEIRS when they buy it, but NOT when that same product taps into online services. There's too much temptation for cheating and piracy on their end.

Please think about the fact that if you're in debt you shouldn't be continuing to spend. <- Financial logic.

Please think about the fact that if you need to beg others for help you should have your priorities sorted. <- Moral/Ethical Logic.

Please think about the fact that the kid was being foolish to begin with. <- Common sense.

Please think about who you're supporting and why you feel such a strong need to be so supportive of it. <- More common sense.

I see little reason here. Just blind corporate hatred and fools with more money than sense.

Edit: I fail at quoting.

 

[Blazingdragoon04]

People can share info on how to crack cable boxes and cable company DVR consoles, and it's perfectly legal in that case (So long as you don't steal cable service and they own the box).

Exactly, and thats whats happening now. People have the box(PS3) and now they are stealing the cable service(games). All thanks to that info.

He was teaching other people how to commit crimes and engage in illegal activities.

If that isn't against the law then I don't know what is anymore...

You do not punish someone for the capability of a crime. It's like saying that teaching someone hand-to-hand combat is a criminal offense because you could potentially teach someone how to seriously injure or kill someone else.

That is not the same in any way. Teaching someone hand to hand combat can be used for self-defense, further teaching others, and potentially to seek to harm others, and not all of these are illegal. Teaching someone how to crack a Playstation has no legal ways of doing it, you are either using it to pirate software, or get around the EULA, both of which are against the rules here. Further more, the people he's teaching are not the same as a broad population, so again your argument is invalid. He posted his code breaking technique and codes on a site specifically geared towards hacking and breaking, and while not all hackers are going to do something illegal with this knowledge, a good portion will, and you are not getting a general population with this, you are getting a population who are interested in hacking and jailbreaking, some of which are inherently illegal.

In order for your metaphor to even be the same thing in this situation, your person teaching hand to hand combat would have to be teaching only people who were definitely planning on using such skills immediately, this really taking out self-defense, and would actively use their skills if no opportunities presented themselves, therefore aggressive people. Thus, you are now teaching hand-to-hand combat knowingly to a population that you know will go out and be aggressive with them, and training people to assault others is DEFINITELY a crime, just like training others PIRATE is a crime.

He wasn't ignorant, he knew what these people were going to use the information to do. He is not innocent, he is not Robin Hood, he is not a good person. He is going to go to jail for a long, long time, and I'm going to just sit back and laugh when he gets extradited from South America for being a complete idiot.

 

[standokan]

Geohot just might´ve ruined his case.

 

[Popido]

Geohot just might´ve ruined his case.

This site might've just taken a part of ruining the case...

 

[gundamrx101]

Expect freedom isn't the issue at all. He pulled it into this argument and like 'revolutionists' everyone ate it up. The truth behind this case is to see if he broke the User Agreement AND then distributed software no one except Sony has a claim to.

Did you purchase the firmware? Does Sony charge us update fees when they introduce a new firmware update? No. Why? Because we didn't purchase the firmware. Yes we have the hardware, even Sony would admit to that. We don't own the software. That's the real issue that's at the center of it. That's why this whole 'freedom' thing is out of proportion. He stole a piece of code and distributed it.

Except that he didn't steal Sony's firmware. Nobody is claiming that he copied the official firmware and sold it under a different name. What he did was to create his own firmware. Which is an entirely separate thing. It's the difference between selling bootleg copies of OSX (clearly illegal) and selling a linux distro that can run on Apple computers (clearly legal).

And I think I speak for many others when I say that idea of "we don't own the software", especially when applied to locked down hardware where the software and hardware are firmly integrated, is more than a little disturbing. For example, I know many people who install custom firmware for their cheap linksys routers to give them more functionality. Or people who install Apache on an old desktop computer with a raid controller to use as a home media server. If those are legal, then why can't I alter my own, legally bought and paid for PS3, to browse the web or install different video codecs or play computer games from my tv? That is freedom. And that's always been at the heart of this.

He didn't steal the firmware, I get that. It's the fact he took a piece of it and distributed it. Which according to the User Agreement is a big no no. That's the issue. The security root key dsitribution, if he didn't send it out none of this would be happening. I'm pretty sure a lot of companies know people install and upload on their electronics. They're fine with it, as long as people don't take their property and distribute it. He took the root key and made it public, that's why. Apple didn't come after him, hell when he claimed he hacked the PS3 Sony didn't do anything. It wasn't until he said "o btw gais hre da r00t ky lulz" that Sony took him to court.

 

[Chibz]

I've done something that... seemingly nobody here has done. I looked over the PSN EULA and will now post what it says in plain english.

Creating a PSN account allows you access to services. These conditions govern the use of the PSN whether you connect through your PS3, or your computer or any other device.

When you create your account you must agree to these conditions. This is done by clicking the "accept" button at the bottom. If you're younger than 18 you must have your parent read these conditions and click accept.

That's all I really need to say. The EULA ONLY covers the PSN. It doesn't prevent you from modding your console as long as you stay offline.

 

[Blazingdragoon04]

People can share info on how to crack cable boxes and cable company DVR consoles, and it's perfectly legal in that case (So long as you don't steal cable service and they own the box).

Exactly, and thats whats happening now. People have the box(PS3) and now they are stealing the cable service(games). All thanks to that info.

He was teaching other people how to commit crimes and engage in illegal activities.

If that isn't against the law then I don't know what is anymore...

You do not punish someone for the capability of a crime. It's like saying that teaching someone hand-to-hand combat is a criminal offense because you could potentially teach someone how to seriously injure or kill someone else.

That is not the same in any way. Teaching someone hand to hand combat can be used for self-defense, further teaching others, and potentially to seek to harm others, and not all of these are illegal. Teaching someone how to crack a Playstation has no legal ways of doing it, you are either using it to pirate software, or get around the EULA, both of which are against the rules here. Further more, the people he's teaching are not the same as a broad population, so again your argument is invalid. He posted his code breaking technique and codes on a site specifically geared towards hacking and breaking, and while not all hackers are going to do something illegal with this knowledge, a good portion will, and you are not getting a general population with this, you are getting a population who are interested in hacking and jailbreaking, some of which are inherently illegal.

In order for your metaphor to even be the same thing in this situation, your person teaching hand to hand combat would have to be teaching only people who were definitely planning on using such skills immediately, this really taking out self-defense, and would actively use their skills if no opportunities presented themselves, therefore aggressive people. Thus, you are now teaching hand-to-hand combat knowingly to a population that you know will go out and be aggressive with them, and training people to assault others is DEFINITELY a crime, just like training others PIRATE is a crime.

He wasn't ignorant, he knew what these people were going to use the information to do. He is not innocent, he is not Robin Hood, he is not a good person. He is going to go to jail for a long, long time, and I'm going to just sit back and laugh when he gets extradited from South America for being a complete idiot.

ignorance for the win, their is no chance of him going to jail im sorry to ruin your sick masturbatory anti hacker fantasy. Im not going to explain it to you since not worth my time but look up civil lawsuit on Wikipedia sometime.

Gee, someone is a bit mad now aren't they?

Yes, I sure am ignorant for believing that someone could go to jail for violating the terms of service of a multi-nation corporation, making them potentially lose millions of dollars in revenue, and violating the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, which is a federal law. All of this is, again, on the Wikipedia page that you so helpfully guided me too that I already knew about. But hey, thinking that breaking federal laws nets you no jail time is pro, right?

Oh, and the tried and true argument of "I am 100% right and have proof but I don't want to tell you what the proof is" is just lingo for "I'm full of shit and I'm just bluffing". So please, why don't you take the time to explain your side rather than just doing random flaming against someone that doesn't have 100% of the knowledge of the legal system, hackers, and the lives of Sony and Mr. Hotz. Oh wait, that's everyone, you must sure hate a lot of people...

Honestly, if you can't take the time to at least make a well worded argument rather than just blasting hate speech, just go home troll. Go home troll, and stay there...

 

[Arehexes]

I really have a hard time believing people when they say "consumer rights" when most of the hacked PS3's will most likely be used to pirate

If I had a PS3 it would probably be hacked because I prefer not having the disc in the drive all the time. I would keep my games safe and the PS3 laser would last longer. I would only play my own backed up games from the external hard drive. If people want to pirate games then game developers should go after those pirates. This crusade of Sony's is getting ridiculous. They're just trying to control your own purchase.

Don't piss off steam then if you use their service because you might lose all the games you bought. Why not get pissy at that also, I mean we did pay for the games right?

 

[Arehexes]

I really have a hard time believing people when they say "consumer rights" when most of the hacked PS3's will most likely be used to pirate

Im so tired of people getting internet connections when most of them will only be used to pirate, you see I can say ignorant things too.

Now come on, you now darn well most people (not all) will end up pirating games instead of using home brew. I'm not being "ignorant" I'm just saying that will most likely be the case, I mean look at the Dreamcast it had piracy issues casue you can just burn a game and go but most people remember it for that and not for the interesting homebrew that game out (beats of rage is cool)

 

[Arehexes]

I really have a hard time believing people when they say "consumer rights" when most of the hacked PS3's will most likely be used to pirate

You don't need custom firmware to pirate games on PS3. There are plenty of avenues to that already. The purpose of hacking the PS3 right now is to do things like running linux, or installing homebrew, or running an emulator like DOSBox, or having a decent browser.

See I know your not the smartest one in the bunch because the PS3 could use linux before this whole mess. Sony did a knee jerk reaction to Geohot saying how he used Linux to by-pass some checks, and in response removed it. So see saying "it's used to run linux" is moot because that was what lead to this whole thing. Geohot hacked using linux, he bragged, sony removed it, caused a shit storm which I agree sony was in the wrong about, and now this whole mess started.