Valve Ends Steam's Controversial Paid Mod Program

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

- Paul Tassi over at Forbes did a very good article in which he suggested an "audition process" whereby you need to submit several free mods which are downloaded by significant numbers of people and/or are highly rated before you can submit paid mods.

now I did agree with most of your points, but this one in particular struck me..

what the hell is up with forbes this past year or so? it seems like they are pumping out some decent gaming articles, and they usually hit at it with consumer friendliness in mind rather than corporate interests. Idk, it's a bit surprising to me, but I do like it (and the idea of auditioning actually would help keep the spammers away and from people making multiple identities, so I do like that alot.)

OT:

valve = tron in this instant
bethesda = clu


cheesiness aside, I am happy this is at least being discussed, and hopefully a much better system comes out of it where advanced modders can do *community DLC* on a professional level.

 

[flying_whimsy]

Fuck you for trying in the first place though.

Pretty much my sentiment as well. It was an ugly cash grab and shame on them for trying it in the first place. I can't help but feel like we'll see this return for the next bethesda game, which will still hurt the modding community and retain the inherent issues they ran into this time.

I never expected to get that mad at valve, but then again I never expected them to do this. The community has spoken, and it only took four days to force a turnaround.

captcha, stop asking me about life insurance and then giving me food code words ('banana stand' for this one). It's making me hungry and a little paranoid.

 

[Darknacht]

Lots of thing that use to be hobbies are now paying jobs, so something currently being a hobby is not a reason that it can't become a paid job.
Valve learned a valuable lesson this week:
Make it a launch 'feature.'
Their statement made it clear from their point of view this failed because Skyrim has been out for too long. This will become a thing that Steam users will have to accept.

...rambling nonsense that has little to do with what I actually said...

As to your other suggestion:

Oh im pretty sure that they will try again to introduce this "feature" with further games, however i differ when it comes to the community simply "having to accept"

Modders will simply abandon games who force this kind of crap down their holes and the longlevity of bethesda games WILL take a nosedive right into the fucking ground.

PC game development use to be the domain of hobbyists but now its an industry, same goes for internet videos. Fuck right now letting other people watch you play video games is a job for some people. Just because something is currently a hobby does not mean it can't become a paying job.

If companies make money directly off mods they will be encouraged to make even better modding tools for the community to use. And you think that modders will reject more mod support and the option to get paid for their work if they want the money? What a joke, based on the number of popular and quality mods that decided to start charging for them as soon as Steam let them it looks like many of the better modders are for not against this kind of system.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

same goes for internet videos. Fuck right now letting other people watch you play video games is a job for some people. Just because something is currently a hobby does not mean it can't become a paying job.

not trying to step between your conversation, but I do want to point out:


apples and oranges...youtube(or any other service like it) doesn't require you to pay anything, the most you do is watch an ad, therefore the cost isn't on the consumer like these paid mods were. Hell the sites that I've downloaded mods from that had lots of ads were better than this system that valve tried to implement.

 

[Darknacht]

same goes for internet videos. Fuck right now letting other people watch you play video games is a job for some people. Just because something is currently a hobby does not mean it can't become a paying job.

not trying to step between your conversation, but I do want to point out:


apples and oranges...youtube(or any other service like it) doesn't require you to pay anything, the most you do is watch an ad, therefore the cost isn't on the consumer like these paid mods were. Hell the sites that I've downloaded mods from that had lots of ads were better than this system that valve tried to implement.

The model of monetization has nothing to do with whether or something can or should be monetized, if instead of having to pay for the mods it justed showed a video before the game for each mod you where using would that make it better? Youtube, blip and other video site are mostly replicating the way TV is monetized, through ads and there are premium youtube like sites, such as Vessel, that do charge you to see videos, trying to replicate a more cable TV like monetization model and even youtube has been looking to add an 'optional' subscription model for some time now. Internet video went from a hobby to a job by emulation the way TV videos are monetized, they are trying to take modding from a hobby to a job by emulating how other software is monetized. Its not uncommon for things that were once hobbies to become jobs.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

same goes for internet videos. Fuck right now letting other people watch you play video games is a job for some people. Just because something is currently a hobby does not mean it can't become a paying job.

not trying to step between your conversation, but I do want to point out:


apples and oranges...youtube(or any other service like it) doesn't require you to pay anything, the most you do is watch an ad, therefore the cost isn't on the consumer like these paid mods were. Hell the sites that I've downloaded mods from that had lots of ads were better than this system that valve tried to implement.

The model of monetization has nothing to do with whether or something can or should be monetized, if instead of having to pay for the mods it justed showed a video before the game for each mod you where using would that make it better? Youtube, blip and other video site are mostly replicating the way TV is monetized, through ads and there are premium youtube like sites, such as Vessel, that do charge you for videos, trying to replicate a more cable TV like monetization model and even youtube has been looking to add an 'optional' subscription model for some time now. Internet video went from a hobby to a job by emulation the way TV videos as monetized, they are trying to take modding from a hobby to a job by emulating how other software is monetized. Its not uncommon for things that were once hobbies to become jobs.

I have no idea where that rant came from based on what I said, but if I had to piece anything out of it, then yes, showing a video/ad before I downloaded a mod would be much better than what valve had. (even then, 75% going between valve and the developer wouldn't sit right with me, but the money would be generated elsewhere for the modder, so I'd be happy they are at least getting paid.)

 

[Travis Fischer]

see valve you always wanna start with "just the tip" when you're about to starting dicking people over.

Congratulations. You won today's Internet!

 

[IamLEAM1983]

I've always equated modders to street buskers. Montreal's subway system is full of those. Hanging around and enjoying their sweet sounds costs nothing at all, just like perusing a selection of quality mods should, in theory, cost nothing at all.

However, it's usually a show of good taste to toss something in the proverbial tip jar, if a particular busker blows you away. The college kid who's haphazardly plunking at his guitar won't get much out of me, but the consummate and unrecognized bluesman who's filling the station with pure soul will get one of my toonies for sure, if not a fiver if I've been exposed to pure awesome.

A tip jar system would work best for the modding scene, as Valve and Bethesda need to realize that modders aren't there to iterate on unofficial DLC. If I want to support a modder, I want to support the MODDER'S work, and not the companies whose only contributions are limited to providing the tools and server space. I already gave my share to Bethsoft and Valve by paying for my copy of Skyrim and the official DLCs, and that's as far as my obligation to them extends.

It only delayed implementation. Everyone yelled, "No paid mods" but Value heard "No paid mods in Skyrim."

Then we'll have to yell again when the time comes. And I've no doubt that we will. The only thing that's worse than not managing to spur change is not acting.

 

[Redlin5_v1legacy]

Must have been an absolute avalanche of criticism and anger in the inbox of Valve. No wonder it got pulled so fast.

 

[pearcinator]

Phew, there IS a god!

And his name is Gaben!

Pretty su're their names are Twitter and Social Media.
Besides Gaben has already made it clear there won't be a Second Coming.

There might be a second coming but a third coming? Not a chance!

 

[Llarys]

Here's the thing that always made the idea of ACTUALLY PAYING (as opposed to tipping/donating/etc) modders for their work always seem like a bad idea to me.

From the release of Morrowind, back with the first TES Dev Kit, the deal was simple: Players can create whatever mods they want, just don't charge money for it, because then there would be legal bullshit with Bethesda and nobody wanted to have to deal with it. And everything was cool.

So fastforward to now - so Bethesda has "given modders the right" to mod the game. Cool. But they're ignoring one EXTREMELY important facet of this whole issue: OTHER copyright holders.


Let's be honest: There are a LOT of...I don't want to say "rip offs" so let's go with "inspired by other creative works" mods. You want a Star Wars Lightsabre mod? You got loads of Lightsabres. You want to walk around in Sauron's armor? You got Sauron's armor. You want to use a Stargate to travel to Hoth and fight giant robots that I'm assuming are from a third fictional universe; we got multi-dimensional mods for your tastes too (And yes, this was an Oblivion mod).

My point is: These mods are now a paid product thanks to the steam workshop. So who's paying the copyright on all of these things? Who's paying Bluehole Studio for usage of Tera's armor? Who's paying LotR's owners for usage of Sauron's armor and The One Ring? And JESUS CHRIST, who wants to contend with the almighty MAW of Disney and try to ask permission to use their Star Wars intellectual properties?

~~~

As free mods, we got the benefit of the doubt that was the legal grey area of fair use. Free software that was made to be shared and distributed. And if someone wanted to donate some money? Dubious as it is, it still fell under that grey area. But as an actual paid product on an online storefront? Jesus Crust. Everyone and their grandmother will want their cut for usage of their intellectual property.

 

[shrekfan246]

All sides of this leave me feeling uncomfortable, to tell the truth.

On the one hand, Valve's announcement really just sounds like them saying they want to monetize mods on their platform but not be held accountable for anything that happens to go wrong. It sounded like they want to turn modders into contracted DLC creators, but without actually giving them any sort of contract. One thing that particularly rubbed me the wrong way was the comment that Valve wanted to do this so that modders could work on mods full-time. I'll admit that I don't have any sort of schooling in economics, but as far as I'm aware these modders would still be working out of their own pockets until their mods are released, at which point they would have to hope they could make their money back. From what I understand, that's not typically the way developers work.

Also, as anyone who has been paying attention to the storefront, Greenlight, or Early Access likely knows, curation isn't exactly a strong suit for Valve at this point in time, and while it might be unfair to preemptively attribute the same to a modification marketplace, I don't think it's outside the realm of reason to suggest that that would become a massive shitshow in short order as well.

On another hand, I don't blame modders for wanting to monetize their work. Personally, I think mods worth actually paying for are pretty few and far between, but I'm not really one to decide what people are willing to pay for. I don't like the idea of mods becoming locked behind a paywall, but that's more out of frugality and selfishness than anything else; I rarely pay for actual DLC released by the developers of a game, I find it hard to believe I'd be willing to part with my money for something that has a higher-than-average chance of breaking everything. I'm a bit worried about the potential for slippery slopes, as well, but that's mostly paranoia and speculation.

In a sprouted mutant third hand, I'm really annoyed by people who are responding to this by essentially saying, "good job, whiners, NOW MODDERS WILL NEVER GET ANY MONEY EVER I HOPE YOU'RE HAPPY!" Not only because they're ignoring the legitimate concerns some people had (which they occasionally even share), but also because it's needlessly antagonistic and just really unhelpful.

But of course, in the fourth hand that's dangling uselessly from the back of the head, there are a lot of people who really are just saying, "good, I'll never pay for mods ever, suck it!" And that just makes me feel disappointed. Not even surprised anymore, but still disappointed.

So, yeah. Uncomfortable, annoyed, and frustrated all around right here. Hopefully Valve will be able to come up with a better way of tackling this. I'd like exceptional modders to be sponsored directly by developers or something.

 

[chadachada123]

Reminds me of the old "stick a frog in boiling water..." wives' tale. Good that they did the right thing, but now we must remain vigilante, lest they bring the temperature slowly up to a boil while we aren't paying attention.

Edit: Also, it seems that most people don't know that plenty of modders had paypal links, etc for donations. You already COULD donate to many modders, but Valve wasn't getting a cut of any of it.

 

[exxxed]

What a bonehead move from Valve of all companies... What the fuck were they thinking, and no that freaking statement reeks of PR?!

By the way, there's already a system in place to support modders, at least on the Nexus site, so please Valve back off with this paid mods bullshite.





P.S. The system I was talking about is called ''Donations'', I know right?

Who woulda' thought...

 

[RedDeadFred]

They should do a donation system like other sites have. That way, you can give the creator money if you think the mod is good. I've donated to a variety of content creators in the past and will continue to show my support for them in the future. I also think that people might be more likely to donate through Steam since their credit cards are already set up.

 

[CpT_x_Killsteal]

WOOOOO! So god damn happy about this. Shitty that they did in in the first place, ESPECIALLY in the way they did it, but I forgive 'em about half now. A Smart company listens to it's customers (or doesn't try to screw them in the first place but I digress), and this one did.
If someone can find Bethesda's statement and the hasty update that I've been hearing out, I'd love a link to it.

Not over yet though. Brace to fight this on future games.

 

[O maestre]

I am glad they did this, but I hope that we do find some way to compensate mod authors in a more fair way.

 

[Adam Jensen_v1legacy]

We should have reacted this way when first DLC and microtransactions showed up. This is the evidence that we have the power. We just need the will.

 

[Scars Unseen]

"stepping into an established, years old modding community in Skyrim was probably not the right place to start iterating."

This man is a master of understatement.

Well Gabe did say that Valve was a data driven company. I guess a 100k plus signed petition qualifies.

 

[Barbas]

Ohhh, that face. That face with that news. Jesus Christ!

OT: Good, very good. Quite satisfactory indeed. Zesty fresh.