Valve to Indie Devs: Don't Use Publishers to Bypass Greenlight

[madster11]

I said this earlier on Twitter, but this is fucking disgusting and Greenlight is a complete mess. Greenlight should be there to get games on steam who don't get any other sort of backing. As soon as some publisher sees that game and wants to pick it up, they should be allowed to elevate it straight out of the Greenlight process.

Valve has completely dropped the ball with Greenlight, and this is one of the few ways they could've fixed it, but they fucked it up.

Good job.

This.

Real dick move, right here. I was already at the point where i didn't want to buy anymore steam games (the DRM, non-standard game files and forced updates piss me off) and the only thing that was keeping me on steam was their support of indies and not acting like dicks.

So now they've gone ahead and acted like dicks to and indie.

 

[Mr. Omega]

If this were ANY other publisher, people would be condemning them for pulling off such a BS move.

But since it's Valve, all the bullshit lines of defense publishers usually pull out are actually being brought out by the gamers, and are even insulting the developer, calling them "lazy" or "cheaters" (really? so when the greenlight campaign didn't work, they were just supposed to roll over and do nothing? so finding an alternative method which dozens of other developers use is "cheating"? fucking really?).

I like Valve, but Greenlight isn't working.

 

[teebeeohh]

I get why valve did this but ky god greenlight is broken, at this point I am not sure if they shouldn't just shut the whole thing down instead of having it run till replacement greenlight comes around

What would you replace it with? Someone has to slog through the montain of games and valve figured it might as well be the potential market. See, Greenlight is a way for Valve to sort out the competent games from the crap games. IF you can get X number of up votes well then there are at least X people that see what you have as a good product. See how that works?

The biggest complaint *I* have is that dear god there are a lot of crap games going up there. And I'm not just talking about graphics I mean the games are just shite. To dat I've voted on no less than 1000 greenlights...sat to say I've only up-voted about 200.

As is they are free to let the greenlight tiome out and then do whatever they want or ... go to a different digital distributor lok Greenman or Gog.

someone from valve (i think it was gabe) said in an interview that they are working on another system to get indies onto steam but because that won't be done for years they implemented greenlight.

 

[klaynexas3]

Valve has every right to do this. It is their program, and despite how utterly shit it is, legally speaking, it is their right to be able to act like total assholes. Just like EA with their always on SimCity. And everyone loves that!

All sarcasm aside, whether or not Valve has the technical right of it, that doesn't make it any less a dick move. Greenlight is broken, and if you ask me it's somewhat worse than before hand. Someone has to go through all the indie games to see which ones are worth going on steam, so do we trust the system where a professional goes through them all, or the one that leaves it up to the whims of a small community that actually visits the Greenlight page, and even then games get completely buried under it all and probably never seen. At least the professional way all games get a fair and equal shot at being seen and recognized. Instead, we get this system where you cast the die and see how it goes.

And now, when the creators of a game have the chance to make it, their being forced to jump through the arbitrary hoops of random chance to being able to get their game on a decent platform. Steam itself is a good service, probably the best in terms of distribution by digital means for the PC. But Greenlight is just so broken.

 

[Formica Archonis]

Valve is actually a company and not a thousand Jesus clones with C++ knowledge? I AM SHOCKED!

Come on, guys. Steam is the Microsoft of indie publishers and they're gonna defend that until the day they shut down. If they can contractually strongarm a small publisher like Adult Swim into not taking a cut of stuff, they're going to.

What are AS gonna do? Go Desura only?

 

[Mr.Squishy]

What the absolute fuck, Valve? When did you become EA?

 

[Vrach]

I'm sorry, what? I thought Greenlight was an alternative to having a publisher? Now that they have a publisher, Valve won't release their game on Steam? The fuck? How is that different from, say, BFBC2 being published by EA and sold on Steam? Are they really saying "no, you're indie, fuck you, you can't have a publisher"?

I just don't get what Valve is doing here. Might be missing something...

 

[Vrach]

Doesn't that defeat the point of Greenlight?

Indeed, but Greenlight seems so broken it seems moot. It also seems like a dick move to stop people from trying to get a better shake.

They already agreed to the terms of Valve's contract when they entered greenlight. Greenlight is essentially publishing by contest, Valve has a stake in the game's success now by contract. If you contract yourself to another publisher you're only splitting your share of the profits from the contract with valve.

Forgoing the contest violates the financial agreement Valve has with the creators. The contest is a means of gauging public support and interest in the game. Basically it's a means of lowing the risk on investments Valve makes in these indie games. If Valve released the contract they would be throwing away a potentially lucrative contract that they by all right should have a stake in by giving the creators a chance to publish their game.

The real moral of the story is if these creators wanted the option to freely choose such things they shouldn't have agreed to the terms of greenlight. Valve might be the only reason these creators were seen by Adult Swim to begin with, so really Valve is fulfilling their end of the bargain.

Just because a shinier deal comes along doesn't mean it voids your previous contract, that's business and it requires a great deal of forethought to succeed in such an independent venture.

Ok, that sounds reasonable, but did these guys sign a contract with Valve that gives Valve the exclusive rights to publish any sequels? If so, yeah, nothing interesting in this story, but if they didn't, they.. well don't have any rights to a sequel, these guys can have whoever they want publish it.

 

[Olas]

Hopefully this incident gets more people to start seeing Valve for being less than the perfect game industry loving teddy bear. It's a business just like any other, and it holds a near monopoly in the PC digital download space. Despite the huge chunks of profit Valve takes per unit sold, indie developers in particular have no choice but to prostrate themselves at the altar of Valve/Steam because if they don't they'll sell maybe 10% of the copies they would otherwise.

Why does everyone call Valve a monopoly? Did the definition of a monopoly radically change all of a sudden?

Desura, Origin, Uplay, Amazon, Games for Windows Live, Gamestop, gamefly, Green Man Gaming, Good Old Games, Getgames, Gamersgate, Bestbuy downloads, Direct2Play, Capcom Store, Rockstar Warehouse, the list goes on.

Being vastly more successful and popular than your competition is NOT the same thing as having no competition. There are plenty of others who'd happily usurp Valve's thrown should they falter.

 

[StriderShinryu]

Hopefully this incident gets more people to start seeing Valve for being less than the perfect game industry loving teddy bear. It's a business just like any other, and it holds a near monopoly in the PC digital download space. Despite the huge chunks of profit Valve takes per unit sold, indie developers in particular have no choice but to prostrate themselves at the altar of Valve/Steam because if they don't they'll sell maybe 10% of the copies they would otherwise.

Why does everyone call Valve a monopoly? Did the definition of a monopoly radically change all of a sudden?

Desura, Origin, Uplay, Amazon, Games for Windows Live, Gamestop, gamefly, Green Man Gaming, Good Old Games, Getgames, Gamersgate, Bestbuy downloads, Direct2Play, Capcom Store, Rockstar Warehouse, the list goes on.

Being vastly more successful and popular than your competition is NOT the same thing as having no competition. There are plenty of others who'd happily usurp Valve's thrown should they falter.

Hence why I specified near monopoly. And the proof is in the pudding as far as the numbers go. Unless you're talking a once in a generation success story like Minecraft, the chances that a game is going to reach a large number of sales if they aren't on Steam is miniscule. Regardless of how many other options there are out there, simply being on Steam and in front of that sort of user base is almost a requirement if you want to be successful, especially if you're at the indie development level.

 

[Gatx]

I can see the issue here: Greenlight is basically it's own Indie-style contract system with Valve. The contract gets 'signed' when the votes and reviews actually give it the 'greelight'. The problem I can see Valve having is that this other competing publisher (Adult Swim Games Inc.) tried signing with someone who's already signed, just to try to go with the same system (Steam). I totally understand why they said "no go" like they did.

Exactly. Valve's principles on this are very reasonable; what's the point of the greenlight system if you can just cheat your way to the finish line (because you have a publisher to front the risky cash instead of steam)? Besides, if they have a publisher now, they aren't indie anymore. Indie means independent of a publisher, as far as I am aware. Not saying that OH GAWD THEY IS EBIL NAO, what I mean is that they don't need to pray to get picked up by someone anymore: they JUST GOT picked up. Sighs of relief all-round.

With this publisher though, if they don't like what steams doing to them, they could just self publish on Adult Swim or their own site, or go with greenman or gog. It's not like steam is some digital overlord that is somehow able to permanently block their sales the world over.

Valve is right in preventing a bad precedent from being set.

It's not like Greenlight is the only way to get onto steam. I saw it as a way to help indie devs to get their game onto there. If the game's already done and they have an interested publisher, and they want to try getting the game on normally, that's not "cheating," it's pulling out of the race entirely. Them getting on to Steam doesn't mean they "won" Greenlight, in fact it means now other games without the means of getting a publisher have a greater chance, but now they have to compete with this juggernaut and all the new press it's getting.

 

[AzrealMaximillion]

So...basically, Valve isn't letting them cheat. Sucks for them, sort of, but it seems O.K. to me. If the game couldn't garner enough support to be published via Greenlight, why should they be allowed to ignore that and have it be published via an actual publisher?

Since this isn't a game I really care about, I kind of view this as a good thing...though I can see how it'd be easy to take the opposite view if I did...

I'd agree if Greenlight wasn't such a god awful system. When games that were Greenlit and completed LAST YEAR are still waiting on Valve to put the damn games in the store especially.

 

[Spitfire]

What I want to know is whether or not any of this is covered in Greenlight's terms. It's kind of hard to tell who's in the wrong without knowing that first.

 

[AzrealMaximillion]

I don't get it. Why would a downloadable game publisher ever take on something that cannot make it past greenlight on its own? That's just bad business.

I just hope this game doesn't not get greenlit because of some new stigma against using a publisher.

Because Greenlight is a broken as hell system that doesn't do what its supposed to do for the games it Greenlights. Most games on the "Greenlit" tab are done and finished. Valve is dragging its feet with releasing them. That's why I have a problem with them not letting these devs bypass Greenlight.

That's like not letting someone use the toll roads with a company transponder because you feel they should use the clogged highway with potholes that you refuse to fix.

 

[AzrealMaximillion]

Surely you're not indie if you have a publisher?

Nice try but no. Starbound. Being published by and indie publisher. The same one that made Wanderlust. You buy Wanderlust, a portion of the proceeds goes to publishing Starbound.

 

[jericu]

Hopefully this incident gets more people to start seeing Valve for being less than the perfect game industry loving teddy bear. It's a business just like any other, and it holds a near monopoly in the PC digital download space. Despite the huge chunks of profit Valve takes per unit sold, indie developers in particular have no choice but to prostrate themselves at the altar of Valve/Steam because if they don't they'll sell maybe 10% of the copies they would otherwise.

Why does everyone call Valve a monopoly? Did the definition of a monopoly radically change all of a sudden?

Desura, Origin, Uplay, Amazon, Games for Windows Live, Gamestop, gamefly, Green Man Gaming, Good Old Games, Getgames, Gamersgate, Bestbuy downloads, Direct2Play, Capcom Store, Rockstar Warehouse, the list goes on.

Being vastly more successful and popular than your competition is NOT the same thing as having no competition. There are plenty of others who'd happily usurp Valve's thrown should they falter.

The problem isn't that Valve has the monopoly, it's that they have a near monopoly. Meaning, it doesn't matter if Paranautical Activity comes out on each of those other platforms, they won't get nearly as much money or sales as they would if they released on Steam. Valve is blocking Paranautical Activity because Code Avarice thought they had to go through Greenlight, and since they made the mistake of putting their game on Greenlight, I suppose they do now.

It's a very silly decision from a company I typically like quite a bit, and I don't think it bodes well if Valve continues to make decisions like this in the future.