Veganism...why?
- Thread starter Secret world leader (shhh)
- Start date
That tooWoodsey said:
Don't like meat?
Fine, whatever, just don't think you're better than me because of it.
I'm sorry, what? How is somone exploding and telling me to fuck off for asking the question and simply stating that i currently disagree with veganism a double standard? Are you defending the guy? If so, at what point did i say "veganism is objectively stupid and meat-eating is the only acceptable diet"?Jammy2003 said:
Please, enlighten me.
Yeah, I hate vegans!!!
How dare they stand up for those who have no voice?
How dare they value thousands of innocent lives over their mere taste buds?
How dare they strive to make the world a better, more cruelty-free place for all?
How dare they challenge my blind, ignorant habits with logical thinking?
How dare they live a lifestyle of compassion and love?
Seriously guys, what a loads of idiots!!1!
How dare they stand up for those who have no voice?
How dare they value thousands of innocent lives over their mere taste buds?
How dare they strive to make the world a better, more cruelty-free place for all?
How dare they challenge my blind, ignorant habits with logical thinking?
How dare they live a lifestyle of compassion and love?
Seriously guys, what a loads of idiots!!1!
Well to begin with, if you actually read the full contents of my post you would understand what I was saying. I wasn't calling you out on a double standard, just the double standard of those within the forum, the attitude of the collective as a whole.Secret world leader (shhh) said:
People are aggressive to vegans a lot of the time, and so a question in a forum such as this, can often be seen as sarcastic or attempting to dig at them, so they get defensive back. The post of the guy who DID say that seems to have been eaten by the internet worms, so I can't seem to find it right now, but you can't deny that largely the tone of this thread has been on the offensive, meaning people come to it on the densive, as something they believe in is being attacked.
But yeah, I'm not going to bother arguing with you if you don't even read my post to get my view from that, if you do read it then I'll talk.
I can't quite put it better than that.Daystar Clarion said:
Vegans also have this horrible tendency (not always and if you don't you can have your obligatory hand-shake, but it's a trend) to bring up the fact that they're a Vegan unprompted. The only time it is appropriate to discuss it is if you are being served food by somebody else. Otherwise, sit down, put your 'better than everyone else' card away and be quiet.
It's a little irksome, I had the misfortune of going on a rigorous (meaning few supplies and lots of hiking) school camping trip in my teens with 2 vegetarians/1 Vegan, and one of the assignments was to clean, gut and cook a fish. They gave me so much grief I almost wanted to substitute one of them for the poor fish.
...I ate it very exaggeratedly in front of them.
This post is deplorable. I have nothing more constructive for you.Jessy_Fran said:
Go away and think more about your views, you're clearly not world weary enough.
While I admire vegans? discipline of their diet, I just think it?s far too much hard work for something that?s so impractical and futile in the end (unless they?re vegan for health/medical reasons). But if they want to do it, then that?s fine. It?s not harming anyone.
I?m an omnivore, and I personally tend to flip-flop on the ?morality? (entirely artificial and man-made social construct, but whatever) of killing animals for food, even if it?s done in the most humane way possible. I mean, there are many vegetarians today that do survive comfortably having a meat-free diet (and many of whom, including my friend, just flat-out don?t like the taste of it, whether or not their vegetarianism is at least in part based on ethical reasons), and maybe there?s not any real need to kill animals in the modern age. But, for someone like me, it?d be such a stress to try and go out to the supermarket, and stock up for a week or a month without any meat in any form.
Also, many humans don?t see the slaughter, so it doesn?t affect them. They don?t care where the Meatball Marinara on their plate came from, but it?s cheap and tasty, who cares? And we humans have grown far too accustomed to a certain, unrestricted (because, you?ve got to admit it, vegetarianism does basically restrict you from a wide market of food that you could eat) standard of living to just drop the carving knife cold turkey (pun intended) and start digging into a bowl of tofu. It sucks, and I couldn?t probably look a cow in the eyes and kill it before eating the beef that it came from, but all this is shielded from us to the point that you may as well just forget that our cost-effective bacon sandwich used to be a pig. It?s somewhat hypocritical that I?m fervently against animal testing and don?t kill flies even if they?re annoying me, yet I?m fine with eating free range eggs, but aren?t all humans self-destructive and self-serving hypocrites that live by a pretty skewed and arbitrary set of morals?
I?m an omnivore, and I personally tend to flip-flop on the ?morality? (entirely artificial and man-made social construct, but whatever) of killing animals for food, even if it?s done in the most humane way possible. I mean, there are many vegetarians today that do survive comfortably having a meat-free diet (and many of whom, including my friend, just flat-out don?t like the taste of it, whether or not their vegetarianism is at least in part based on ethical reasons), and maybe there?s not any real need to kill animals in the modern age. But, for someone like me, it?d be such a stress to try and go out to the supermarket, and stock up for a week or a month without any meat in any form.
Also, many humans don?t see the slaughter, so it doesn?t affect them. They don?t care where the Meatball Marinara on their plate came from, but it?s cheap and tasty, who cares? And we humans have grown far too accustomed to a certain, unrestricted (because, you?ve got to admit it, vegetarianism does basically restrict you from a wide market of food that you could eat) standard of living to just drop the carving knife cold turkey (pun intended) and start digging into a bowl of tofu. It sucks, and I couldn?t probably look a cow in the eyes and kill it before eating the beef that it came from, but all this is shielded from us to the point that you may as well just forget that our cost-effective bacon sandwich used to be a pig. It?s somewhat hypocritical that I?m fervently against animal testing and don?t kill flies even if they?re annoying me, yet I?m fine with eating free range eggs, but aren?t all humans self-destructive and self-serving hypocrites that live by a pretty skewed and arbitrary set of morals?
Honestly? Ugh, this thread is filled with carnists who are unable to see past their bacon sandwich. I think the point of my post went flying past you right there.
My boyfriend is not vegan. Neither is my best friend who I live with, nor my family. I don't know any vegans in real life. Do I hate all of those people? No. Do I disagree with their actions, yes I do. But not as much as I hate the fact that meat-eaters can get all up in my face, ignoring facts, calling it a 'personal choice', telling me about how damn tasty burgers are and so on and so forth while I have to sit there taking it because my opinion is unpopular.
No. I'm not a pacifist and I'm quite happy to give as good as I get.
My boyfriend is not vegan. Neither is my best friend who I live with, nor my family. I don't know any vegans in real life. Do I hate all of those people? No. Do I disagree with their actions, yes I do. But not as much as I hate the fact that meat-eaters can get all up in my face, ignoring facts, calling it a 'personal choice', telling me about how damn tasty burgers are and so on and so forth while I have to sit there taking it because my opinion is unpopular.
No. I'm not a pacifist and I'm quite happy to give as good as I get.
Please tell me why you consider this to be 'deplorable'? An uncomfortable truth maybe, but not deplorable surely.Charli said:
It's also always worth noting that you get more food by mass from farming animals than grain per unit area. I.e. you get more food off a field of cows than a field of the same size full of wheat, by mass, kg/m^2 (i dont know how to superscript sorry).Daystar Clarion said:
Also, I can't imagine animals like sheep would be doing particularly well for themselves at this point in time if we didn't keep them for food. They're pretty dumb things and they tend to die if they run too far.
Wow I haven't seen so much hypocracy, denile and feeble excuses to justify ones actions in a single thread.
So I'll just reply to some as brief as possible.
OP, I am vegan, can't speak for every one but I do it to cause as little unnecacery suffering as possible, and it is unnecasery because no one has to eat meat, I haven't for years and I'm in great shape.
It's hipocracy to say "I think we're animals and we have a place on the food chain that must be adhered to, it's our duty as humans to keep the lower species in check." = animals and humans are equal but their are also "lower species", that's a paradox.
It's arrogant to think humans are in some way superior, the most common argument is humans are more intelegent 'look at all the amazing things we've done' when in actuality it has been a hand full of exceptional humans that have elevated those around them by shear accident, the vast majority of humans are dull creatures (before any ones says, yes! I include my self in that statistic).
There's also some massive hiypocrasy going on it this thread, if your argument is that its natural to eat meat then why do you get other people to kill it for you, why don't you hunt it down ad kill It your self, that would be far more natural then buying it from a shop. I honestly have no problem with eating meat as long as people killed it themselves,
because by this logic I would have the right to be heavy weight champion of the world if I payed someone else to fight for me.
Most people don't have the land required to grow there own food.
There is animal death in the production of milk, the cow must get pregnant, give birth, and then the farmer kills the calf so that the mother wont resist when the farmer takes the milk, I have no idea where this notion that cows constantly produce milk comes from.
So I did have this enormous Pice of text ready but then I stupidly clicked the next page (seriously why can't the text just stay there)Secret world leader (shhh) said:
So I'll just reply to some as brief as possible.
OP, I am vegan, can't speak for every one but I do it to cause as little unnecacery suffering as possible, and it is unnecasery because no one has to eat meat, I haven't for years and I'm in great shape.
It's hipocracy to say "I think we're animals and we have a place on the food chain that must be adhered to, it's our duty as humans to keep the lower species in check." = animals and humans are equal but their are also "lower species", that's a paradox.
It's arrogant to think humans are in some way superior, the most common argument is humans are more intelegent 'look at all the amazing things we've done' when in actuality it has been a hand full of exceptional humans that have elevated those around them by shear accident, the vast majority of humans are dull creatures (before any ones says, yes! I include my self in that statistic).
There's also some massive hiypocrasy going on it this thread, if your argument is that its natural to eat meat then why do you get other people to kill it for you, why don't you hunt it down ad kill It your self, that would be far more natural then buying it from a shop. I honestly have no problem with eating meat as long as people killed it themselves,
because by this logic I would have the right to be heavy weight champion of the world if I payed someone else to fight for me.
No, a hypocrit says "don't smoke" and then smokes, someone saying 'I don't want to harm animals' and then actively trying to cause as little harm as possible isn't hypocracy, that's called trying to be a decent person.Daystar Clarion said:
Most people don't have the land required to grow there own food.
There is animal death in the production of milk, the cow must get pregnant, give birth, and then the farmer kills the calf so that the mother wont resist when the farmer takes the milk, I have no idea where this notion that cows constantly produce milk comes from.
But you haven't given a reason as to why they differ, Farming and slavery are about the exploitation of another creature, the only reason people find the latter more objectionable is because the creature in question is human.Eamar said:
Well when we're just examining Veganism then it's mostly pertaining to Dairy and Eggs. While I have no problem with eggs, they are for the most part an aborted fetus... sort of, and considering how some religious idealist crack pots feel about human abortion they might just need to rethink how other animals are treated (I don't give two shits however).
Dairy I have a big problem with, it's not good for you at all really (unless it's human). Every nutritional value found in a glass of milk can be better found in just about any vegetable. Animals are not supposed to drink other species milk, because alongside with Calcium and vitamins a mothers milk is absolutely loaded with species specific hormones and White Blood Cells, and if your drinking another species White Blood Cells then you are just having a big old glass of Pus!
I'm not a Vegan by any means, but I do try to eat properly when I can (but we all have our vices). Let's put bull shit morality aside, we are Apex predators and it's a very big universe, and if we aren't going to eat these animals we would certainly have to consider getting rid of the ones that don't benefit us. We can't get bogged down with nonsense about mistreating lower animals... when we can treat our fellow man with respect and dignity then it may be time to consider the Chickens and Cows.
It's important to note that there is nothing remotely as bad for you in red meat as is in a KitKat bar! Simple sugars are literally tearing society apart, but that is all part of a much larger debate regarding farm subsidies which is a big part of the Economically Fucked world we are creating!
Dairy I have a big problem with, it's not good for you at all really (unless it's human). Every nutritional value found in a glass of milk can be better found in just about any vegetable. Animals are not supposed to drink other species milk, because alongside with Calcium and vitamins a mothers milk is absolutely loaded with species specific hormones and White Blood Cells, and if your drinking another species White Blood Cells then you are just having a big old glass of Pus!
I'm not a Vegan by any means, but I do try to eat properly when I can (but we all have our vices). Let's put bull shit morality aside, we are Apex predators and it's a very big universe, and if we aren't going to eat these animals we would certainly have to consider getting rid of the ones that don't benefit us. We can't get bogged down with nonsense about mistreating lower animals... when we can treat our fellow man with respect and dignity then it may be time to consider the Chickens and Cows.
It's important to note that there is nothing remotely as bad for you in red meat as is in a KitKat bar! Simple sugars are literally tearing society apart, but that is all part of a much larger debate regarding farm subsidies which is a big part of the Economically Fucked world we are creating!
Why? Because people are illogical. It doesn't make any sense, and if you follow veganism to it's logical conclusion, it doesn't result in peace and happiness for all of the little animals, but extinction.
I'm sorry but that just doesn't work. Grazing animals are a secondary tier source of food, and by simple biology CAN'T be more efficient than growing crops. What do they eat? Whatever is growing in the field (grass we'll say). The cow can not get more energy from eating the plants than the plants have in the first place. The cow then uses energy before we eat them, and they aren't so much more efficient of stripping the nutrients from the plants that its better to use them as a middle man.SkarKrow said:
Besides, mass is not the issue, its volume of food per unit area that matters, and the concentrations of the nutrients inside such food.
The only way a field of cows could be more efficient than a field of crops is if you are feeding the cows crops from another field, which then means that they aren't just using up opne field, they are using up multiple ones.
Why? she's making a valid point, and I completely get the frustration, just look at this forum, the general consensus is that vegans are arrogant, snobby, hypocrites.FelixG said: