Vegetarianism

[Cuniculus]

Heh, and then there's this:

http://www.theroot.com/views/you-ll-never-eat-chicken-mcnuggets-again

Meh, not impressed. Designed to disgust huh? Who the hell is this supposed to be against anyway? They said that you'd never even look at an ear of corn the same way again. What the hell is this supposed to accomplish? Make no one eat anything?

Hey, actually, great idea. We can skinny up some of us Americans. Fatties.

 

[Rolling Thunder]

You eat fish. Ergo, you are not a vegeterian. Quad Error Demonstrandum.

You just don't eat other types of meat. Eating fish precludes vegeterianism.

Isn't it "Quod Erat Demonstrandum"?

Damn you sir. Now I have to look through every last one of Oscar Wilde's works until I find this quote.

 

[khawkes1]

The biggest issue for me was the lack of B12 in my diet.
It's the one thing I'm forced to supplement to keep myself at healthy levels.

 

[Cuniculus]

It's not the most positive picture of us, no. If you have the time, look for a copy of Animal Liberation by Peter Singer, preferably the more recent second edition. I don't agree with everything the man says philosophicly, but he does an accurate depiction of factory farming.

I'm not totally against eating meat - I'm not a vegetarian - but I don't like the way the animals are treated.

Thanks, but no thanks. I'm not really interested in learning about how my food is made. I know disgusting things happen, but hell. Even if the animals were treated perfectly, the farmer could just take a piss in your orange juice before he sends it out anyway.

On the subject of animal treatment, yeah, I can agree that they shouldn't be treated badly, but obviously it isn't changing. Even trying our best we still can't 100% stop animal cruelty. Even harvesting grain kills thousands of animals a day.

 

[ThrobbingEgo]

It's not the most positive picture of us, no. If you have the time, look for a copy of Animal Liberation by Peter Singer, preferably the more recent second edition. I don't agree with everything the man says philosophicly, but he does an accurate depiction of factory farming.

I'm not totally against eating meat - I'm not a vegetarian - but I don't like the way the animals are treated.

Thanks, but no thanks. I'm not really interested in learning about how my food is made. I know disgusting things happen, but hell. Even if the animals were treated perfectly, the farmer could just take a piss in your orange juice before he sends it out anyway.

On the subject of animal treatment, yeah, I can agree that they shouldn't be treated badly, but obviously it isn't changing. Even trying our best we still can't 100% stop animal cruelty. Even harvesting grain kills thousands of animals a day.

Maddox fan, I take it?

One could argue there's a big difference between making an animal suffer for it's entire short life, or instantly crushing it with a grain combine inadvertantly. You're not tearing off their beaks, keeping them in the dark, letting their feet fuse to the mesh of their shared, cramped cage. It's kind of a big difference.

 

[ThrobbingEgo]

You eat fish. Ergo, you are not a vegeterian. Quad Error Demonstrandum.

You just don't eat other types of meat. Eating fish precludes vegeterianism.

Isn't it "Quod Erat Demonstrandum"?

Damn you sir. Now I have to look through every last one of Oscar Wilde's works until I find this quote.

It's a Latin phrase meaning 'the things which was to be demonstrated being proven' roughly--Wilde may have been punning on it by changing 'quod' to 'quad'.

I'd disagree with it anyway, because hypocrisy only says bad things about you - not the argument. For fans of Latin, Ad Hominem Tu Quoque.

 

[Cuniculus]

It's not the most positive picture of us, no. If you have the time, look for a copy of Animal Liberation by Peter Singer, preferably the more recent second edition. I don't agree with everything the man says philosophicly, but he does an accurate depiction of factory farming.

I'm not totally against eating meat - I'm not a vegetarian - but I don't like the way the animals are treated.

Thanks, but no thanks. I'm not really interested in learning about how my food is made. I know disgusting things happen, but hell. Even if the animals were treated perfectly, the farmer could just take a piss in your orange juice before he sends it out anyway.

On the subject of animal treatment, yeah, I can agree that they shouldn't be treated badly, but obviously it isn't changing. Even trying our best we still can't 100% stop animal cruelty. Even harvesting grain kills thousands of animals a day.

Maddox fan, I take it?

One could argue there's a big difference between making an animal suffer for it's entire short life, or instantly crushing it with a grain combine inadvertantly. You're not tearing off their beaks, keeping them in the dark, letting their feet fuse to the mesh of their shared, cramped cage. It's kind of a big difference.

I won't deny that I am indeed a fan, but I hope you'll believe me when I say that I knew the stats before reading that particular post.

In the words of other people I hate, "A life is a life."

 

[ElephantGuts]

Would you feel better if you started hunting and only ate meat you killed? If your problem really is the way the animals are raised, I highly suggest this option to solve both your problems.

 

[ThrobbingEgo]

It's not the most positive picture of us, no. If you have the time, look for a copy of Animal Liberation by Peter Singer, preferably the more recent second edition. I don't agree with everything the man says philosophicly, but he does an accurate depiction of factory farming.

I'm not totally against eating meat - I'm not a vegetarian - but I don't like the way the animals are treated.

Thanks, but no thanks. I'm not really interested in learning about how my food is made. I know disgusting things happen, but hell. Even if the animals were treated perfectly, the farmer could just take a piss in your orange juice before he sends it out anyway.

On the subject of animal treatment, yeah, I can agree that they shouldn't be treated badly, but obviously it isn't changing. Even trying our best we still can't 100% stop animal cruelty. Even harvesting grain kills thousands of animals a day.

Maddox fan, I take it?

One could argue there's a big difference between making an animal suffer for it's entire short life, or instantly crushing it with a grain combine inadvertantly. You're not tearing off their beaks, keeping them in the dark, letting their feet fuse to the mesh of their shared, cramped cage. It's kind of a big difference.

I won't deny that I am indeed a fan, but I hope you'll believe me when I say that I knew the stats before reading that particular post.

In the words of other people I hate, "A life is a life."

But it's really besides the point isn't it? Just because other bad things happen, it doesn't make it any less wrong.

It doesn't make sense to allow ten people to die, if you could prevent it, if you can't save one regardless.

 

[Cuniculus]

In the words of other people I hate, "A life is a life."

But it's really besides the point isn't it? Just because other bad things happen, it doesn't make it any less wrong.

I just said I didn't agree with it. I just said I'm not going to stop eating meat because of it. Or.. you know, do anything about it as a matter of fact. Maybe the chickens could start a union.

 

[Rolling Thunder]

You eat fish. Ergo, you are not a vegeterian. Quad Error Demonstrandum.

You just don't eat other types of meat. Eating fish precludes vegeterianism.

Isn't it "Quod Erat Demonstrandum"?

Damn you sir. Now I have to look through every last one of Oscar Wilde's works until I find this quote.

It's a Latin phrase meaning 'the things which was to be demonstrated being proven' roughly--Wilde may have been punning on it by changing 'quod' to 'quad'.

I'd disagree with it anyway, because hypocrisy only says bad things about you - not the argument. For fans of Latin, Ad Hominem Tu Quoque.

Hypocrisy is the foundation of all successful civilisations, and is an essential element for a society to function in a correct manner. Much like discrimination and bloodshed, if used in excess, it becomes unpalateable, but without society would become unworkable anarchy.

 

[ThrobbingEgo]

In the words of other people I hate, "A life is a life."

But it's really besides the point isn't it? Just because other bad things happen, it doesn't make it any less wrong.

I just said I didn't agree with it. I just said I'm not going to stop eating meat because of it. Or.. you know, do anything about it as a matter of fact. Maybe the chickens could start a union.

Chickens don't have political power or deep pockets like the farming industry. Or, you know, the ability to speak.

I don't really get why you're trying to justify your inaction to me. I don't want to push you to do anything, but I'll respond readily to any arguments you make that I disagree with. Respectfully, of course.

 

[Cuniculus]

Make people aware that, like the article said: "Eating is both a political and an economic act, and the filmmakers are making a strong moral argument: What we choose to eat has vast, global impact, from the state of our health to the way that undocumented workers are exploited."

If you're okay with the impact, then you're okay with the impact--that's an issue of morality. If you choose to fight for workers' rights rather than eat less beef or corn or whatever, that's an issue of politics. However, to deny the impact is to deny the facts of reality: if an argument is based off of assumptions about food productions that are not true, well, then whatever your personal opinions, it's not a good argument.

Now we're getting into exploitation of workers? Sheesh. I'm terrible for eating meat.

Or just another member of society apparently.

Obviously personal opinions about food preparation are really not the actual point here now? Even if I did have personal opinions, as you and Mr. Ego have informed me, THIS is how things actually are. So if I'm not assuming, I just don't care, what does that mean?

 

[Cuniculus]

In the words of other people I hate, "A life is a life."

But it's really besides the point isn't it? Just because other bad things happen, it doesn't make it any less wrong.

I just said I didn't agree with it. I just said I'm not going to stop eating meat because of it. Or.. you know, do anything about it as a matter of fact. Maybe the chickens could start a union.

Chickens don't have political power or deep pockets like the farming industry. Or, you know, the ability to speak.

I don't really get why you're trying to justify your inaction to me. I don't want to push you to do anything, but I'll respond readily to any arguments you make that I disagree with. Respectfully, of course.

Of course.

In all reality, I've been told these things and more over and over again by my vegetarian girlfriend. Might be why I'm a bit argumentative. You're right though, you're mainly presenting facts, I'm mainly being a dick. Sorry.

 

[ThrobbingEgo]

Hypocrisy is the foundation of all successful civilisations, and is an essential element for a society to function in a correct manner. Much like discrimination and bloodshed, if used in excess, it becomes unpalateable, but without society would become unworkable anarchy.

Uh, okay?

I was more referring to the fact that if someone acts in contrary to what they're proposing, that hypocrisy doesn't neccesarially make their claim invalid.

This fallacy is committed when it is concluded that a person's claim is false because 1) it is inconsistent with something else a person has said or 2) what a person says is inconsistent with her actions. This type of "argument" has the following form:

Person A makes claim X.
Person B asserts that A's actions or past claims are inconsistent with the truth of claim X.
Therefore X is false

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ad-hominem-tu-quoque.html

 

[ThrobbingEgo]

Of course.

In all reality, I've been told these things and more over and over again by my vegetarian girlfriend. Might be why I'm a bit argumentative. You're right though, you're mainly presenting facts, I'm mainly being a dick. Sorry.

Don't sweat it man. I'm an avid reader of Maddox myself. I used to be much more of a dick to my vegetarian friends. My vegetarian friends who had deep seated issues about eating animals.

 

[ThrobbingEgo]

*Snip*

I took "demonstrate by doing" to mean demonstrate an ideal, not a claim made about yourself. I get what you're saying. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

 

[Cuniculus]

Of course.

In all reality, I've been told these things and more over and over again by my vegetarian girlfriend. Might be why I'm a bit argumentative. You're right though, you're mainly presenting facts, I'm mainly being a dick. Sorry.

Don't sweat it man. I'm an avid reader of Maddox myself. I used to be much more of a dick to my vegetarian friends. My vegetarian friends who had deep seated issues about eating animals.

I won't say all, but most of them have a high and mighty attitude, which just pisses me off. "Look at me! I'm so much better than you because I defy nature!"

Whatever, I'm done now. Nice talking to you.

 

[Quantana]

you know i understand my sister is a vegetarian, i cant do it. i like meat to much. but keep it going its a good thing your doing.

 

[Abedeus]

If humans were to eat only vegetables, I think our ancestors would just stay in one place and grow crops instead of moving around and hunting for animals. I mean, an animal might attack, hurt you! Most of the plants people grow for harvest can't hurt you, unless you shove them up your nose.

Humans are omnivores! You can't make a lion eat only grass and vegetables or turn a cow into a blood-thirsty monster. Just like animals' bodies need what they need, we need both vegetables and meat.

Also, last time I've checked - fish meat is still meat. Just because you say you are a grass-eater, doesn't make you one.