Venezuela

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Agema

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Well to be fair, Manduro is neither popular nor legitimate, so deposing him isn't exactly the worse thing.
Well, sure, not many people are sad to see Maduro go. But history suggests this sort of intervention rarely works out well. Maduro's democratic legitimacy was shaky at best, but anyone the USA installs will be even less legitimate. Chances are there will be a lot of instability and conflict.

This could work out better for Venezuela if they let them rebuild their country without too much interference (I'm assuming they'll ask for oil and stuff).
"Without too much intereference"?

Bloody hell, man. Where do you think militarily deposing a foreign leader stands on the interference scale? Do you think a state that does that is just going to stand back and let nature take its course?[/QUOTE]
 

crimson5pheonix

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Well normally this is when a right wing dictator would be installed, but we're in a brand new (old) age with Trump, so which US politician do you think is going to be made governor of the new principality of Venezuela?
 

Hades

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That drunk Hegseth saying ''America is back'' is funny since the US has been in drastic decline since the moment Trump returned back to power. Then again perhaps that useless drunk has been hitting the bottle before the press conference.
 
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Bedinsis

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Assuming the US doesn't let Maduro go, Venezuela will announce an interim president, right?

One who presumably already was aligned with Maduro's politics.
 

Satinavian

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Oof! The savages in Russia have responded that it’s an act of aggression and that Venezuela should be free to decide their own future.

Technically true but said by a spychotic regime whose core ideology is that countries shouldn’t be free to decide their own future, and who launched s genocidal war just to prevent them from doing so.

Zero self awareness
The thing is that this whole mess gives legitimacy to Russia and Putin. It is now difficult to criticize Russias Ukraine invasion and not criticize the US invading Venezuela to grab its oil.

But the European governments can't have harsh words on Venezuela or Trump will get another damaging tantrum.
 

Chimpzy

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Vultures already circling, eh? I suspect they were informed in advance.

Apparently the vast majority of Venezuelan-Americans are cheering Maduro's removal. Which, you know, fair, Maduro's a shithead.

They'll love it even more when another authoritarian is installed, nothing changes for the people, and the country is stripped for parts. And if they don't like that, a visit from ICE followed by a stint in a Venezuelan prison that sends prisoners to work oil refineries will set them straight. That would be grand.
 

Agema

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Assuming the US doesn't let Maduro go, Venezuela will announce an interim president, right?

One who presumably already was aligned with Maduro's politics.
Sure, but it's not that simple.

A lot of things can happen in chaos. Fundamentally, "Maduroism" is done. Sure, Maduro will have stuffed the corridors of power with his allies, but bear in mind that many people in power have flexible loyalties when personal benefit is concerned. One of them could see an opportunity to seize power by overthrowing the Maduro faction (even better opportunity if they run the army, and can remove the government at gunpoint). Or the Maduro faction might simply collapse without Maduro - it's not exactly popular. The Maduro faction might also accept that the ways of Maduro are done, and put forward a moderate candidate who they think will work with the USA.

The USA is definitely going to be involved, and will want a subservient minion to take charge who will cater to US interests, up to and including installing their preferred candidate with coercion. So I figure what will happen is a period of uncertainty where people see where the power lies. Hopefully there won't be too much violence.
 

Gergar12

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I saw a footage of the helicopter/ AH-6 firing rockets a Fort near Carcas that Maduro was in. My first question is where are the Manpads, and if the US can just bribe Venezuelan generals to turn off the air defenses or some of them why don't we do it in Ukraine. Just start bribing Russian officers to surrender in mass to turn off Buk, Pantsir, S-400s, S350s. S300s, etc.

Edit: Found it


Edit2: We used F-22s!

 
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Agema

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They'll love it even more when another authoritarian is installed, nothing changes for the people, and the country is stripped for parts. And if they don't like that, a visit from ICE followed by a stint in a Venezuelan prison that sends prisoners to work oil refineries will set them straight. That would be grand.
It's the same old cycle.

The right (/ US-backed) strip the wealth of the country into their own pockets until it enrages the poor enough to oust them in popular socialist rebellion, then the forces of the right and big money quash the socialists and reinstitute exploitation, and then the poor rise up again and...

I think the Latin American elites are descended from mostly aristocratic Iberians, who lived in their vast haciendas and plantations whilst indigenous and mixed-race peasants/slaves did the work keeping them rich and comfortable. Sure, they got independence from Spain / Portugal, but they kept much of that mindset even throug the generations. There's even a racial component: the elites all look like they could be fresh out of Andalusia when the poor often look at least partially native American. They've bred amongst themselves, not deigning to mix with their inferiors. These guys are not serious about education, health, and human development. They couldn't care less about the peasants, they just know they should be running the place and making all the money. If that means helping US imperialists asset strip their homeland, well, that works too as long as they get their cut.
 
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BrawlMan

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Gergar12

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Okay since everyone thinks this is a bad idea I will be the one to defend it. The Venezuela people despise Maduro, it's very likely a Harris or Biden Admirtration would have done the same thing, they may take longer, they may be more persuasive, consulted allies, etc. But Maduro was that much of a danger to his own country, and the security of the Americas so much so that if the democrats wouln't have done this had they been president there would be resignations with many parts of the government including FBI, DOD, and other agencies for many senior officials. WIthout Venezuela being a competent producer of rare earths, and fossil fuels the world economy would have even more supply chain problems.

Maduro had Wagner, Iranian IRGC, Chinese Air defense technicians in the western hemsphere. There's a difference between this, and Chile plus Columbia's president saying US bad, they weren't incompetent, and weren't creating a narco-state, cartel and gang heavily, plus incompetent at meeting the basic needs of their whole country state like Maduro. Hell even Hugo Chávez was better than Maduro by a mile.

If the US wanted to overthrow leftist leaders why doesn't it overthrow Lula, Mexico's president, Columbia's president, or even any social democracies in Europe. ANd the Venezuela people can't deal with Maduro despite multiple protests because he, and Iran's Mullahs have a near-monpoly on power, and violence.
 

Dirty Hipsters

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Okay since everyone thinks this is a bad idea I will be the one to defend it. The Venezuela people despise Maduro,
And how is that the US's problem to solve?

it's very likely a Harris or Biden Admirtration would have done the same thing, they may take longer, they may be more persuasive, consulted allies, etc. But Maduro was that much of a danger to his own country, and the security of the Americas so much so that if the democrats wouln't have done this had they been president there would be resignations with many parts of the government including FBI, DOD, and other agencies for many senior officials.
1. Citation needed.
2. If people were going to resign from the government over the US not starting a new regime change war maybe it would have been GOOD for them to resign.

WIthout Venezuela being a competent producer of rare earths, and fossil fuels the world economy would have even more supply chain problems.
Ok so is this about Venezuela being an existential threat to the US, or just about us wanting to steal their resources?

Maduro had Wagner, Iranian IRGC, Chinese Air defense technicians in the western hemsphere. There's a difference between this, and Chile plus Columbia's president saying US bad, they weren't incompetent, and weren't creating a narco-state, cartel and gang heavily, plus incompetent at meeting the basic needs of their whole country state like Maduro. Hell even Hugo Chávez was better than Maduro by a mile.
Are you implying that Venezuela was planning to attack the US? Because if so, you're delusional.

If the US wanted to overthrow leftist leaders why doesn't it overthrow Lula, Mexico's president, Columbia's president, or even any social democracies in Europe. ANd the Venezuela people can't deal with Maduro despite multiple protests because he, and Iran's Mullahs have a near-monpoly on power, and violence.
Trump has already hinted that actions against Mexico, Cuba, and Colombia are next.


 
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Gergar12

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And how is that the US's problem to solve?



1. Citation needed.
2. If people were going to resign from the government over the US not starting a new regime change war maybe it would have been GOOD for them to resign.



Ok so is this about Venezuela being an existential threat to the US, or just about us wanting to steal their resources?



Are you implying that Venezuela was planning to attack the US? Because if so, you're delusional.



Trump has already hinted that actions again Mexico, Cuba, and Colombia are next.


The reason it's our problem is the same reason we give foreign aid, if you let problems spiral they get worse, and eventually effect you given Venazula, and the US are on the same hemisphere, I know everyone who is liberal myself included generally wants compassion for refugees, but similar to abortions generally every refugee is a tragedy.

"'1. Citation needed.'
'2. If people were going to resign from the government over the US not starting a new regime change war maybe it would have been GOOD for them to resign.'"


"If people were going to resign from the government over the US not starting a new regime change war maybe it would have been GOOD for them to resign"

No, it would have let to a lost of expertise, and also people who boss people around is not how democracies generally function in policy at the federal level, and that goes double for the democrats, even people the republcian party have pushed back on Trump, and his staffers have taken his phone in 2016.

"Ok so is this about Venezuela being an existential threat to the US, or just about us wanting to steal their resources?"

Both, they could be staging grounds for future drone attacks with shaheds drones, and their foreign interlopers could pose problems for American DEA trying to contain the fentanyl problem. Also the US has bases in the region as well

"Are you implying that Venezuela was planning to attack the US? Because if so, you're delusional."

They are too weak to do it themselves, but Russia, and China could. Thye already have or had forces in the area recently.



Trump has already hinted that actions again Mexico, Cuba, and Colombia are next.

Cuba I agree with, the dictatorship of the Castros, and the repeated attacks on US diplomatic personal in the area warrants it.


Trump won't be in office for long as TPUSA's founder, and many conservatives have already announced for JD Vance whether he wins is another story.

More Evidence:


1767494101496.png
 
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tstorm823

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Okay since everyone thinks this is a bad idea I will be the one to defend it.
Honestly, people are being pretty mellow on this one. I'm not really reading any of these posts as all that upset about it.