Videogames vs. The Movies

[Bobic]

Which is better written;

The Godfather or Kane and Lynch 2: Dog days?

I have not seen nor played either.[/quote]

You're clearly evading the point there. You can't take the worst written film you can think of and compare it to one of the better written games out there. Don't be such a fool. Perhaps a better comparison to make would be The Dark Knight vs Arkham Asylum. In which case, at least in my opinion, The Dark Knight wins easily.

P.S. You broke your quote, which in turn broke my quote. Bravo. Now we both look like fools.

 

[008Zulu_v1legacy]

And wow, comparing the original trilogy to The Lameness Unleashed? Bad example for your case. That game was godawful next to the OT, because the Trilogy is actually very rewatchable an you aspire to the characters while Starkiller is....Kratos in Star Wars. And Kratos doesnt fit in Star Wars.

TFU doesnt have Ewoks.

I can't comment to Kratos, I dont have a PS3.

Your right, movies and games are different, and taste is subjective. But given the rather lazy storytelling approach several new and soon to be released movies, so aptly pointed out by Movie Bob himself, I will be sticking to games for the foreseeable future.

 

[DownloaderOfTheMonth]

Remember that Indiana Jones is a ripoff from the old adventure films from the 40s and 50s.

And Star Wars was a combination of Samurai and Western film plots (which actually inspired each other in themselves)

Nothing is original - everyone's inspired, even if it's from an offhand remark from their great-uncle or a stray leaf that lands in a pond next to them and makes them think about something.

 

[008Zulu_v1legacy]

Which is better written;

A Bug's Life or Modern Warfare 2?

Point is, all movies and games have shit and gold. And cherry picking the shit to try and compare it to the gold is just stupid and pointless.

90% of everything is shit, doesn't matter if its movies, games, books, or anything else. And both industries have such a stiffy for remakes/sequels right now its ridiculous.

I blame both society and the industry. The industry because they wont take a chance on anything new because it might hurt their profits, and society because they keep buying the same rehashed crap over and over again.

 

[008Zulu_v1legacy]

Here's a better comparison: Star Wars (the original trilogy) or Mass Effect. How about Lord of the Rings vs Dragon Age? Or Inception vs Deus Ex.

Now for examples of the BAD: Heavy Rain vs any other Seven ripoff. Gears of War vs The Expendables.

I can't really say that games are any BETTER in terms of writing than Hollywood is, mostly because games weren't founded on conveying a story unlike film. They're pretty much equal in terms of writing.

RPGs (both western and J) are built upon good story writting/telling, it's their core component. Conversely, FPS's require little to no story. Perhaps game writing may not be better (in terms of quality, there is some truly Narm dialogue out there), but game writting has to be adaptive since people play different ways and every playthrough wont be the same (unelss they play it the same on purpose, or the game is remarkably restrictive) so game writting has to be written in a non-linear form that movies cant do. In this context games are better at writting.

 

[008Zulu_v1legacy]

You're clearly evading the point there. You can't take the worst written film you can think of and compare it to one of the better written games out there. Don't be such a fool. Perhaps a better comparison to make would be The Dark Knight vs Arkham Asylum. In which case, at least in my opinion, The Dark Knight wins easily.

Since the Godfather has won several academy awards it can be reasoned that it is superior, where as K&L2 has received untold levels of scorn and hate.

As for the Batman comparison, its apples and oranges. The only thing they have in common is the source material, its like they are two different products. Mark Hamill's Joker vs Heath Ledger's Joker, most would pick Ledger out of respect that he literally gave his life to the part. If he were alive, the contest would be less biased, DK's Joker really made the movie.

 

[008Zulu_v1legacy]

Thanks. I understand your perspective now. I agree that games can do things that movies can't because of their interactive nature. I also agree with others that nether medium is better, just different. If you get more entertainment out of your games then movies more power to you.
(smiley face)

Both have advantages that the other doesnt have. I think that everytime one medium does something new or innovative it'll just reset this topic over and over again.

 

[Aiddon_v1legacy]

Here's a better comparison: Star Wars (the original trilogy) or Mass Effect. How about Lord of the Rings vs Dragon Age? Or Inception vs Deus Ex.

Now for examples of the BAD: Heavy Rain vs any other Seven ripoff. Gears of War vs The Expendables.

I can't really say that games are any BETTER in terms of writing than Hollywood is, mostly because games weren't founded on conveying a story unlike film. They're pretty much equal in terms of writing.

RPGs (both western and J) are built upon good story writting/telling, it's their core component. Conversely, FPS's require little to no story. Perhaps game writing may not be better (in terms of quality, there is some truly Narm dialogue out there), but game writting has to be adaptive since people play different ways and every playthrough wont be the same (unelss they play it the same on purpose, or the game is remarkably restrictive) so game writting has to be written in a non-linear form that movies cant do. In this context games are better at writting.

That's like saying that film writing is superior to comics, novels, and plays because it has to be written differently due to the way it conveys information. And no, game writing is NOT written non-linearly, at best it's branching (Dragon Age, Deus Ex, Mass Effect, Baldur's Gate). A lot of games have linear story-telling such as Half-Life 2, Beyond Good and Evil, most JRPGs, the Halo series, Assassin's Creed, the Mario RPGs, and Bioshock. In fact, one could argue that game writing is WORSE due to it usually not taking advantage of its visual and interactive nature. In

 

[MrGalactus]

Biggest Hit in Hollywood history? Lets see, Avatar, 2.5 Billion return, Gone With the Wind, 6 Billion dollar return. Might be a bit off there Bob.

If you count for inflation, you are right. If you don't, Moviebob is right.

 

[Canid117]

What were the words you used Bob? "Mall Crawling, little akiyabara wannabe piss ants who, when they're not setting up base camp in the fucking manga aisle at Barnes and Noble just love nothing more than to explain to you how there's nothing anyone can do in the art or entertainment world that wasn't already done a million times better in some nine hundred episode anime that even japan didn't give a shit about. It's the arrogance that gets me you know?" Whats that Bob? Are you insinuating that all western games are garbage compared to their eastern counterparts?

Read "not even Japan gives a shit about." He is still insulating the same thing about the entertainment purchasing habits of the most successful and prosperous nation on earth, founded on the best principles any nation could be founded on. The Japanese do it so much better. The Japanese who make their kids work 80 hour weeks for school, leaving them to have most of their childhood in their adult years. That is, if their jobs do not make them work 80 hour weeks. The Japanese who still have a fondness for the "emperor" from the 30?s/40?s. The Japanese that have and had a far worse (demographic division/xenophobia) problem than the ?white male? issue here.

As brilliant as Bob is, that insulation makes me ill.

I'm... not exactly sure what you are trying to say but okay!

 

[Donald L]

Something else that Hollywood and most American game makers have in common: Their most reliable consumers hate anime with a passion!

I think thats abit old fashioned these days guy, its got alot more mainstream lately which is why dispite my next statment I generally see it as mostly a good thing... mostly.

Look what they do to series aimed at teens, series that hold some form of story after all the violence and swearing get mutilated out of it are milked to ash (e.g. Naruto, Gundam, etc) while those that cant get shuffed into barly exsistant adult swim time slots (Bleach, Gurren Lagan, etc). I mean I really dont like One Piece but what 4Kids did to it was... bad... and I wouldnt even be aware of Outlaw Star if I hadnt used Toonami as an exuse to stay awake after my mum at 14 to watch dirty movies.

In regards to the Americans, I did generalise a bit too much. Sadly, if you start an anime related thread on this site the haters pour in.

In regards to anime being milked to death, I know what you are going through. I avoid Naruto, Bleach and One Piece as they are too long and I do not have the money and commitment to follow them. I generally try to watch shorter series, but Gundam is fine as each series that has come out since 1995 is self contained (apart from SEED having a sequel series).

Living in New Zealand, a PAL territory, I am in largely the same boat as you in regards to anime selection. I hope you are able to find good anime to watch.

 

[draythefingerless]

And wow, comparing the original trilogy to The Lameness Unleashed? Bad example for your case. That game was godawful next to the OT, because the Trilogy is actually very rewatchable an you aspire to the characters while Starkiller is....Kratos in Star Wars. And Kratos doesnt fit in Star Wars.

TFU doesnt have Ewoks.

I can't comment to Kratos, I dont have a PS3.

Your right, movies and games are different, and taste is subjective. But given the rather lazy storytelling approach several new and soon to be released movies, so aptly pointed out by Movie Bob himself, I will be sticking to games for the foreseeable future.

So youre saying that most games that come out are not filled with 'lazyness' and 'shittiness'? You choose to hold onto games only thats fine, but i dont really see WHY you have to do that...do you have to choose between games and movies? Are they that much time consuming in your life that you cant afford time or money in managing even a little bit of both in your life? And movies are crappy? Sure, because bad movies are WAYYYY more publicized than bad games, but i can assure you, for ever Black Ops Multiplayer, Mass Effect 2 narrative, or Amnesia Dark Descent immersion, you will have 20 shitty versions of those experiences out there.

So in terms of crappy percentage, the numbers are about the same, and even if they werent, nothing is stopping you from enjoying a good movie.

Kratos is a mindless, unsympathetic, poorly written character whos only positive element is his supposed 'badassness', because he is fun to play with. Galen Marek is exactly that. Mindless, poorly written, with only its gameplay mechanics to hold onto. Thus, you cannot say that StarKiller is a good comparison to the Original Trilogy. And i did not mind the Ewoks. They were 20 minutes of movie in a multiple hour bonanza of fun and immersive storytelling. Because the movies gave me two Death Star explosions, one of the best stories ever made, the best story twist ever made, and tons of fun amongst other things. Starkiller? Barely 10hours of annoying fun, no replay value, since the gameplay is highly repetitive, so not even the badassness is good here. Thats my view at least. Unless someone wants to step up and defend Starkillers deep and meaningful character development? Not relevant to the topic.

 

[PunkRex]

Something else that Hollywood and most American game makers have in common: Their most reliable consumers hate anime with a passion!

I think thats abit old fashioned these days guy, its got alot more mainstream lately which is why dispite my next statment I generally see it as mostly a good thing... mostly.

Look what they do to series aimed at teens, series that hold some form of story after all the violence and swearing get mutilated out of it are milked to ash (e.g. Naruto, Gundam, etc) while those that cant get shuffed into barly exsistant adult swim time slots (Bleach, Gurren Lagan, etc). I mean I really dont like One Piece but what 4Kids did to it was... bad... and I wouldnt even be aware of Outlaw Star if I hadnt used Toonami as an exuse to stay awake after my mum at 14 to watch dirty movies.

In regards to the Americans, I did generalise a bit too much. Sadly, if you start an anime related thread on this site the haters pour in.

In regards to anime being milked to death, I know what you are going through. I avoid Naruto, Bleach and One Piece as they are too long and I do not have the money and commitment to follow them. I generally try to watch shorter series, but Gundam is fine as each series that has come out since 1995 is self contained (apart from SEED having a sequel series).

Living in New Zealand, a PAL territory, I am in largely the same boat as you in regards to anime selection. I hope you are able to find good anime to watch.

Wow, what a nice comment and the same to you sir. Ill admit the big three are daunting. Naruto's still going strong but Bleach has been flailing all over the place for the last 80 chapters and as I said I dont like One Piece. Im more in to Manga as thats what I want to do but I know of a few short series that I loved.

Outlaw Star, Samurai Champloo, Gundam Wing (never got round to watching the older series, I hear there not as... feminine), Tengen Toppen Gurren Lagen (till the time skip... sad times), Soul Eater (sooooooo close... messed up right on the finishing line), Cowboy Bebop (never saw the whole thing) and I recently started cheacking out the new season stuff like this Winter I watched Panty, Stocking with Garterbelt and My Little Sister cant be this Cute. I mostly just visit places like Watchanimenow.com and if I love it enough I go buy it.

Good luck on your anime questing guy and just GAR!!! your way past haters.

 

[iamultraman]

I'm pretty sure that Joseph Campbell has already hypothesized, and proven, that all storylines (or at least those of good mediums) are based on a certain formula--thus it isn't difficult to argue that everything has ripped off their plot from Theseus and the Minotaur--but OK let's play along.

I just wanted to say that anything has meaning as long as you give it meaning. You can't denote anything as "good writing" or "bad writing" because you do not speak for the entirety of mankind. If you're a critic then go ahead and do so but you have to justify it, even if it's just a bare analysis of the bad component. For example A Tale of Two Cities had the worst ending because Dickens had a mood curve that shot up unexpectedly; it was uncanny, it was like watching the stock market crash at Wall Street, and I will absolutely keep bringing this up because it is one of the greatest tragedies in my life.

Anyway comparing video games to movies in terms of plot is meaningless because you can pretty much absorb anything from either of them. I can discuss the nature-machine relationship in Metal Gear Sold 4--though I won't--as much I can discuss Fullmetal Jacket's portrayal of the US military as maniacally obsessed with perfection. I can compare the mythology of the Legend of Zelda franchise in direct parallel to that of other cultures--which I actually would do--in comparison to Lucas's application of stories into the Star Wars franchise. Essentially my point is that you can look at a turd as if it is the culmination of biological processes or as if it is a turd, get me?

 

[Tom Phoenix]

The reason for the ill state of any entertainment business is simple, it is just that it is often a fact that those involved in the business refuse to acknowledge. And that reason is poor content. If any entertainment business is doing poor financially, the only explanation is that it isn't producing quality content for the masses.

It is no different in this case. Hollywood is not doing well beacuse it has not been producing much quality content over the past couple of years. If they did, people would be flocking to cinemas, beacuse they would be willing to do that in order to watch a good movie. As it is, they have more reasons to go somewhere else or just stay at home.

 

[Warachia]

Biggest Hit in Hollywood history? Lets see, Avatar, 2.5 Billion return, Gone With the Wind, 6 Billion dollar return. Might be a bit off there Bob.

If you count for inflation, you are right. If you don't, Moviebob is right.

And that in itself is a cheating argument because you can't compare 2 things from different times without factoring in things like inflation, remember, even though it cost less to see it people had less money, so it still evens out.

 

[008Zulu_v1legacy]

So youre saying that most games that come out are not filled with 'lazyness' and 'shittiness'? You choose to hold onto games only thats fine, but i dont really see WHY you have to do that...do you have to choose between games and movies? Are they that much time consuming in your life that you cant afford time or money in managing even a little bit of both in your life? And movies are crappy? Sure, because bad movies are WAYYYY more publicized than bad games, but i can assure you, for ever Black Ops Multiplayer, Mass Effect 2 narrative, or Amnesia Dark Descent immersion, you will have 20 shitty versions of those experiences out there.

So in terms of crappy percentage, the numbers are about the same, and even if they werent, nothing is stopping you from enjoying a good movie.

Kratos is a mindless, unsympathetic, poorly written character whos only positive element is his supposed 'badassness', because he is fun to play with. Galen Marek is exactly that. Mindless, poorly written, with only its gameplay mechanics to hold onto. Thus, you cannot say that StarKiller is a good comparison to the Original Trilogy. And i did not mind the Ewoks. They were 20 minutes of movie in a multiple hour bonanza of fun and immersive storytelling. Because the movies gave me two Death Star explosions, one of the best stories ever made, the best story twist ever made, and tons of fun amongst other things. Starkiller? Barely 10hours of annoying fun, no replay value, since the gameplay is highly repetitive, so not even the badassness is good here. Thats my view at least. Unless someone wants to step up and defend Starkillers deep and meaningful character development? Not relevant to the topic.

1) Never said there wern't shitty games that have/are/will-be released. The difference between a shitty game and a shitty movie is, you can get your money back on a game (or trade in).

2) Need to find a good movie before I can enjoy it. For example, Green Lantern and Green Hornet appear to be nothing more than, for lack of a better term, palette swaps of existing movies.

3) TFU didnt have Ewoks, TFU2 did (yeah, with you there that it was bad). I agree that Starkiller is somewhat mindless, but that being a product of a sheltered and extremely violent upbringing. Special effects dont make a movie (good ones anyway), it's a good story told well that does. Star Wars was mostly ripped from pre-existing material, so it doesnt really count as being a good story, but it was told well.

 

[008Zulu_v1legacy]

That's like saying that film writing is superior to comics, novels, and plays because it has to be written differently due to the way it conveys information. And no, game writing is NOT written non-linearly, at best it's branching (Dragon Age, Deus Ex, Mass Effect, Baldur's Gate). A lot of games have linear story-telling such as Half-Life 2, Beyond Good and Evil, most JRPGs, the Halo series, Assassin's Creed, the Mario RPGs, and Bioshock. In fact, one could argue that game writing is WORSE due to it usually not taking advantage of its visual and interactive nature. In

There are games that use non-linear mechaincs, where if events are played in a certain order they will affect how other events turn out. Mass Effect 1 & 2 are examples where non-linear storytelling is/can-be used. Linear isn't lazy per se, it just means less work for what is ultimately the same thing. Most game makers have to take into account that not everyone will play the game the same, unless it is specifically built that way.

Some games don't take advantage of the fact that they are an interactive media, others do.

 

[MasterSplinter]

"Oooh boy! A hot new downloadable indie game! I wonder if it's a Super Mario Bros. reworking built around a single unique new mechanic and an offbeat art-style!?"

I'm writing that down somewhere.

 

[GrizzlerBorno]

Quit Scapegoating Hollywood
We still can't get games that include current events without retarded censorship (MW2 is the exception because it was about Cold War fantasy) OR have a decent sex scene! *looks sideways at Mass Effect*
Sympathy: <COLOR= RED>DENIED
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_L-6xp13j0yc/S8CYy_nnMpI/AAAAAAAABS4/Pzjw9QZctms/s400/Simpsons_Homer_crying.gif
Cry harder little men.

Very Well said sir.

OT: You know what the problem with both industries is right? The problem is that they are still "industries". Believe it or not, There was a time when there was a "painting industry" rich landowners would get Craftsmen (that's right, not "artist"; "Craftsmen" is what they were called) to paint portraits and Murals for them and their charges, and then take the credit. It was an Industry. and it was bullshit. Same for Books at one point. Now we have two Artforms that are tied down by their respective "industries".

It will change one day. One day, anyone smart enough will be able to make a good videogame (and worship Markus Persson as though he were a God) and then we won't need an "industry" (read: hegemonic Publishing companies). Same for films although that'll probably happen much sooner.

Ofcourse then Holo-Bob will be bitching about how the "Holographic industry vs. the Virtual Reality industry" or some shit. Cyclic shit is Cyclic.