Violent women.

[5mj7R7yf4Dwr3gdZyyu9PeGNwYjlNrjzuh3iTXQG]

Violence is not a word one casually throws around in this neighborhood, but that's because I know more than one person with post traumatic stress disorder. I know more than one veteran who's seen actual action and didn't come back quite right in the head.

Myself, I'm as gentle as they come, which is a good thing, given I'm a six-foot, ~230-pound ape. My flat-mate, who has had her fiery years, is the one to be concerned about, because she can gut somebody, should her livelihood (or that of those she loves) depend on it. She has put people into the hospital, and I've even had concerns during our off years that I could be her next victim. Fortunately, she had more control than that.

I hold both respect and pity for those who carry within them such degrees of badassery. In this community, that includes both men and women.

My respect for them is in regards to their will to do what is necessary when the time comes. Should our republic fall, it is likely that they are the people on which I will depend to survive through the long night. (They certainly are the ones who become responders when someone's life is in danger.) They, in turn, will depend on me to restore the infrastructure on which civilization depends; we each have our talents.

And my pity comes because the internal monster doesn't willingly stay in its designated compartment inside one's head. The wrong triggers can switch a pure, loving, human being back into a front-line killing machine, one that often is unsure who is friend and who is enemy. More than once in my life, I've had to talk such creatures down; remind them who they are and their present-day circumstances. I've had to reach that internal humanity afraid for his life to let his guard down. I've had to stare down guns and knives, and I am thankful I have survived those incidents unscathed.

Regarding those who consent to playing with fighting, and do so under safe conditions, I have no objections. I cannot do it myself, and I've disappointed more than a couple of girlfriends who wanted me to rape them (even with consent, it's just not in me). But if that's your kink, I wish you all the best in finding a safe and satisfying partner with which to explore those fantasies.

But when it comes to real violence, there's no space here to fuck around. If your temper leads you to harm yourself, others or property, you're a danger. And when you're a danger, you get help and learn to secure it, or you end up in the custody of the authorities. (You get to choose whether it's the guys in white, or the guys in blue.) As harsh as that might sound, it's better that than you triggering someone else who then empties a clip into you without a second thought.

Fortunately, these days, we don't have that many incidents within the community. I know a few people who might want to gun down a senator or two, though.

Incidentally, Statistically, domestic violence is not specific to either sex. Neither men nor women start it more often, or necessarily do more damage than the other. Not all anti-violence groups acknowledge male victims. Not all shelters accept men, and a lot of men don't go to the hospital when they should, because of embarrassment issues. It's one of those double standards we've yet to work out. But generally, until there's a zombie outbreak, real-world violence doesn't fly.

238U.

 

[Hoplon]

I've been using these forums for a while, but have changed my SN to break away from the people who don't share the same values. Start afresh, if you will.

I'm going to be straight with you guys. I'm not a calm, well-behaved lady. I can be quite fiery, quite aggressive, and you know what? I'm happy with that and who I am.

What I've found is, though, that people are not happy when women show even one ounce of strength or conviction in who they are. Even less so when they're aggressive rather than a pacifist. It's like men, in particular (if we're talking romantically) are looking for a relationship in which they are mothered. I'm not that sort of person, and don't want to be with someone who needs mothering. I've tried it once, it ended in disaster and I deviated so far from who I was, I just wasnt happy and neither was he. The relationship became monotone because I was so stifled by having to portray the 'expected' version of me.

So I come to you. What do YOU think about women with a more violent and hot-headed nature than the norm? Do you prefer women to be subtle? Mother you? Why do you prefer this? I'm supposing a lot of you play video games with particually 'strong' minded (and bodied) women, so when it comes to real life.. why do you want me down on my knees? (Hey, careful, I dont mean in that sense).

I'm not saying that I would go shank someone in the street or be completely irrational. I have a head on my shoulders. But I like violence (as play in a relationship, or as a happy relationship dynamic). I get a rise from it. And I'm fine with who I am.

Is it really so scary to men? I'm not looking for advice here, even though I do despair at the lack of relationship prospects for me. I can handle myself. I want insight into why so many men seem to need and expect passive women.

You sound fun to me.

Also, you need to worry less about it.

 

[Grouchy Imp_v1legacy]

I think you're pretty spot on. I can accept others for who they are, but if I don't click then I can't force it. I'm not the type to want to keep superficial friendships, and I cannot jump at the chance of forming romantic relationships with someone if I don't believe I can get the kind of equality, trust, love, companionship and play that I care for.

I just can't find anyone. I'm going pretty good on my own since I accepted that I can't force anything, but sometimes I do wonder whether there is anyone out there that would want to be in my bubble.

I do cuddle, though.

Well there you go, you see? If you accept people for who they are then you don't have to worry about being alone, at least for long. Look, I'm not great at the whole 'relationship advice' gig, but it seems to me that the sooner you kick back and just enjoy being you, the sooner you'll start hanging out with like minded people. And the sooner you do that, the sooner you'll start clicking with people. And arguing. And fighting. And, occasionally, even cuddling.

 

[IrisEver]

Don't get too hung up on my example, I only ment that in both your case and the hypothetical guy's case, the person doesnt need to change their personality, if that makes any sense.

I was just thinking though, how have your past boyfriends reacted to your playfighting and teasing. If they gave you any feed back after the relationship ended that could also be useful in refining your approach to relationships.

It's been a mix. I've had men trying to tone me down. If this happens, I usually try to sort out the root conflict -- ask them if there's anything I am doing that is making them miserable. I care about being a good parter. A lot of the time, it turns out we're just not compatible.

I do not want to be cruel in a relationship, or be allowed to be cruel. I do not want a man who simply sits at my feet and cowering. I do not expect that and would not want to be in a relationship where my actions lead to someone reacting in such a way. I have never been in a relationship where my actions have lead to a man reacting in such a way. When things seem incompatible, the relationship is ended. I would never initiate a playfight with someone against their wishes, at all. That's not what I want. If there is genuinely something I seem to be doing wrong not connected to my want of a certain closeness, I work on myself just like any other person would.

But this is part of my nature I don't want to change, as I have tried and I am thoroughly miserable when I do, and I if I want a relationship that will work, I'll need to find a man who is compatible with that.

A man who isn't delicate in this way, and doesn't expect me to be delicate.

i was following what you were saying when you said an aggressive female, but violence to the point of physical abuse would be a def no go for me, hense the want for clarity

I would never abuse someone. I am not an abuser, and wouldnt want to be. I wouldnt want a man to let me abuse them, and would hate to see anyone being abused by anyone else.

Switching roles, I would know the difference between a man abusing me and a man having some good natured, human fun with me. The respect and trust is built in the relationship as a whole, allowing for that closeness of interaction and the quick pace of heart beats that follow.

Two human beings with a connection, both with their own minds and their own strengths. Both accepting, both willing to play, both getting a rise out of violence. Again, good naturedly. But also a man who wont be bothered if, in a disagreement, I grab him and root him to the floor -- mostly because it will end in a kiss. A man who would smile at that sort of interaction, rather than think it means I want to do serious damage to him (and I would not attempt to do serious damage to a man in a 'playfight' such as this). A man who wouldnt assume that this behaviour means I dont respect him. Perhaps a man who would chuckle at it. A man who would fight back (not wanting to seriously damage me either). We'd then tease each other over who won. I really am just talking about interaction, here. The question is "Why assume?", "Why do you not want women who behave like this, when good natured 'conflict' is what most mammals do for enjoyment?".

Root conflict in a relationship, the sort of conflict that could destroy the happiness of the relationship, should be sorted by talking and not by throwing plates. I'm not talking about throwing plates. A disagreement on which milk we should be buying? We'll disagree, I'll get wound up, he may get exasperated. We stand and look at each other. We'll scuffle, I'll get him on the floor and he'll laugh at how my face is crunched up. I may hit him on the arm for that comment, still wound up, and he'll laugh and say how my strike feels like a kitten batting with it's paw. Then he'll remind me the shop is closing soon, and we really must get some milk. We go and get some milk. No one gets hurt, no one is scared, and then we eat some cereal (with the milk I wanted to buy, because I won the scuffle. We'd buy his milk if he won).

Yes, it's a bit more than play fighting. It is aggressive. But it is in no way aimed to abuse. I would never "root someone to the floor" if they were not happy with this sort of interaction, and did not enjoy it with me.

Maybe it's a strange sort of closeness an interaction to want. I'm realising that more now.

 

[Killertje]

I think with "violent" she means playfully wrestling/fighting each other, not kicking each others teeth in. I personally wouldn't call that violent, because it's not your intention to hurt the other beyond comfort level. Like when you do martial arts and practice on eachother it's not really violence (usually), even though you are kicking and punching.

Honestly I would love to have a girlfriend who likes that (as long as she isn't a lot stronger than me ofcourse ). I'm pretty sure there are more people like me out there, and maybe even a few you might like, so just keep looking and hopefully you will meet one soon.

 

[IrisEver]

I think with "violent" she means playfully wrestling/fighting each other, not kicking each others teeth in. I personally wouldn't call that violent, because it's not your intention to hurt the other beyond comfort level. Like when you do martial arts and practice on eachother it's not really violence (usually), even though you are kicking and punching.

Honestly I would love to have a girlfriend who likes that (as long as she isn't a lot stronger than me ofcourse ). I'm pretty sure there are more people like me out there, and maybe even a few you might like, so just keep looking and hopefully you will meet one soon.

Yes, that's the idea. I call it violence though as it does involve hurt beyond comfort level. Inflicting pain, yes, but not kicking each others teeth in or doing anything to endanger safety. Not going beyond a mans personal comfort level when it comes to physically interacting in such a way. But a mans personal comfort level seems to be lowered when it comes to a relationship with a woman, because we're meant to be "passive" and to "mother" them, and apparently it's not desirable when we don't act such.

It's not just the physical interaction.

It's about the nature behind this sort of interaction and this dynamic. The aggresiveness, the hot temper. Men don't like it. They don't seem to like the challenge. Apparently, in my experience, I really need to sit on my arse and shut up when a man speaks to be considered suitable for a relationship. I cannot do that.

And I was just wondering why.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

root conflict

I grab him and root him to the floor

Root conflict

I would never "root someone to the floor"

This is hilarious if you're Aussie where 'root' is equivalent to 'shag'

 

[IrisEver]

root conflict

I grab him and root him to the floor

Root conflict

I would never "root someone to the floor"

This is hilarious if you're Aussie where 'root' is equivalent to 'shag'

That works too.

 

[Insideout Ink Demon]

Don't get too hung up on my example, I only ment that in both your case and the hypothetical guy's case, the person doesnt need to change their personality, if that makes any sense.

I was just thinking though, how have your past boyfriends reacted to your playfighting and teasing. If they gave you any feed back after the relationship ended that could also be useful in refining your approach to relationships.

It's been a mix. I've had men trying to tone me down. If this happens, I usually try to sort out the root conflict -- ask them if there's anything I am doing that is making them miserable. I care about being a good parter. A lot of the time, it turns out we're just not compatible.

I do not want to be cruel in a relationship, or be allowed to be cruel. I do not want a man who simply sits at my feet and cowering. I do not expect that and would not want to be in a relationship where my actions lead to someone reacting in such a way. I have never been in a relationship where my actions have lead to a man reacting in such a way. When things seem incompatible, the relationship is ended. I would never initiate a playfight with someone against their wishes, at all. That's not what I want. If there is genuinely something I seem to be doing wrong not connected to my want of a certain closeness, I work on myself just like any other person would.

But this is part of my nature I don't want to change, as I have tried and I am thoroughly miserable when I do, and I if I want a relationship that will work, I'll need to find a man who is compatible with that.

A man who isn't delicate in this way, and doesn't expect me to be delicate.

i was following what you were saying when you said an aggressive female, but violence to the point of physical abuse would be a def no go for me, hense the want for clarity

I would never abuse someone. I am not an abuser, and wouldnt want to be. I wouldnt want a man to let me abuse them, and would hate to see anyone being abused by anyone else.

Switching roles, I would know the difference between a man abusing me and a man having some good natured, human fun with me. The respect and trust is built in the relationship as a whole, allowing for that closeness of interaction and the quick pace of heart beats that follow.

Two human beings with a connection, both with their own minds and their own strengths. Both accepting, both willing to play, both getting a rise out of violence. Again, good naturedly. But also a man who wont be bothered if, in a disagreement, I grab him and root him to the floor -- mostly because it will end in a kiss. A man who would smile at that sort of interaction, rather than think it means I want to do serious damage to him (and I would not attempt to do serious damage to a man in a 'playfight' such as this). A man who wouldnt assume that this behaviour means I dont respect him. Perhaps a man who would chuckle at it. A man who would fight back (not wanting to seriously damage me either). We'd then tease each other over who won. I really am just talking about interaction, here. The question is "Why assume?", "Why do you not want women who behave like this, when good natured 'conflict' is what most mammals do for enjoyment?".

Root conflict in a relationship, the sort of conflict that could destroy the happiness of the relationship, should be sorted by talking and not by throwing plates. I'm not talking about throwing plates. A disagreement on which milk we should be buying? We'll disagree, I'll get wound up, he may get exasperated. We stand and look at each other. We'll scuffle, I'll get him on the floor and he'll laugh at how my face is crunched up. I may hit him on the arm for that comment, still wound up, and he'll laugh and say how my strike feels like a kitten batting with it's paw. Then he'll remind me the shop is closing soon, and we really must get some milk. We go and get some milk. No one gets hurt, no one is scared, and then we eat some cereal (with the milk I wanted to buy, because I won the scuffle. We'd buy his milk if he won).

Yes, it's a bit more than play fighting. It is aggressive. But it is in no way aimed to abuse. I would never "root someone to the floor" if they were not happy with this sort of interaction, and did not enjoy it with me.

Maybe it's a strange sort of closeness an interaction to want. I'm realising that more now.

sounds pretty damn good to me.
i've had relationships like this.
unfortunately the women i was with couldnt accept what equal really meant, sometimes ya win, sometimes ya lose. in the end it meant issues getting blown out of all proportion.

which is the reason i've been put off aggressive women.
which is a shame because i miss strong opinions and someone who likes to initiate in the bedroom

 

[tharglet]

Yer, I understand where you're coming from, cos I'm the playfighting female sort.

There are men who don't mind playfighting or whatnot with women, but they tend to be the minority.

My partner has a habit of trying to throw me off the bed... he usually starts it and I usually finish it lol .

 

[IrisEver]

sounds pretty damn good to me.
i've had relationships like this.
unfortunately the women i was with couldnt accept what equal really meant, sometimes ya win, sometimes ya lose. in the end it meant issues getting blown out of all proportion.

which is the reason i've been put off aggressive women.
which is a shame because i miss strong opinions and someone who likes to initiate in the bedroom

Don't get me wrong. If he won the scuffle for the milk, I'd be driven to get my own back. The difference is, he would expect it of me, and be disappointed in me if I didn't attempt revenge.

All staying within the connection and trust of the relationship, of course. That's how I roll, soldier.

 

[Killertje]

Yes, that's the idea. I call it violence though as it does involve hurt beyond comfort level. Inflicting pain, yes, but not kicking each others teeth in or doing anything to endanger safety. Not going beyond a mans personal comfort level when it comes to physically interacting in such a way. But a mans personal comfort level seems to be lowered when it comes to a relationship with a woman, because we're meant to be "passive" and to "mother" them, and apparently it's not desirable when we don't act such.

It's not just the physical interaction.

It's about the nature behind this sort of interaction and this dynamic. The aggresiveness, the hot temper. Men don't like it. They don't seem to like the challenge. Apparently, in my experience, I really need to sit on my arse and shut up when a man speaks to be considered suitable for a relationship. I cannot do that.

And I was just wondering why.

With comfort level I mean what you can handle without getting afraid or angry about it. Some people (like your exes) have a very low comfort level apparently, while others can trust that you won't hurt them too much and just take it "like a man".
I can imagine that some people want to just relax when they get home and aren't interested in "fighting" with their girlfriend. I certainly wouldn't want to do that every day, especially when I'm tired. And some people never ever want to do that with their gf. But for me, once in a while it would be awesome to just playfully kick some ass and get some excercise at the same time (and hopefully even more afterward ).

 

[deckai]

I like my women with a bit of fire in them (not literal). I like to tease( with words or by poking) people I care for and teasing isn't half as fun if the person you tease isn't able to counter in someway or being able to endure my harmless teasing.

Nothing is really fun, without a bit of conflict in it to spice it up, even if it's only superficial.

 

[Ferrious]

The kind of thing you're describing to me sounds like teenage boys playing after too much WWE. The kind of thing I used to do with my mates on a sleepover, usually where someone ended up getting hurt but were normally OK next morning. I grew out of that once puberty let me out of its malicious grip.

I don't think it's that men don't want to be challenged, its that often we look to our partners for support and we don't want to be fighting all the time. I enjoy being challenged in my relationship - nothing is worse than the example from one of the posters above where you realise that your partner's opinions are just your opinions reflected. But I don't want to be constantly challenged every minute, over every decision - if we don't 'click' on at least some level, it's going to get grating fast. Also, arguing in public is one of those big "no" moments for me. I've had a girl like that. I hated it. Seriously, if you can't contain yourself enough to be civil in public, I'm not interested. It's got nothing to do with being female, if one of my male friends started loudly arguing in public over some stupid decision, I'd just walk away.

But this is massive "all men think X" when in fact we don't. We are who we are, not some collective. There's certainly men who appreciate a hot-tempered, angry, play-fighting woman, you just need to find them. They most likely don't hang out on the Escapist discussing symbolism in Zelda though.

 

[Insideout Ink Demon]

sounds pretty damn good to me.
i've had relationships like this.
unfortunately the women i was with couldnt accept what equal really meant, sometimes ya win, sometimes ya lose. in the end it meant issues getting blown out of all proportion.

which is the reason i've been put off aggressive women.
which is a shame because i miss strong opinions and someone who likes to initiate in the bedroom

Don't get me wrong. If he won the scuffle for the milk, I'd be driven to get my own back. The difference is, he would expect it of me, and be disappointed in me if I didn't attempt revenge.

All staying within the connection and trust of the relationship, of course. That's how I roll, soldier.

my opinion on depends if there was a difference between getting one over on someone by winning something equivalent, or creating a big blazing fight over it, just for revenge

 

[x EvilErmine x]

...Two human beings with a connection, both with their own minds and their own strengths. Both accepting, both willing to play, both getting a rise out of violence. Again, good naturedly. But also a man who wont be bothered if, in a disagreement, I grab him and root him to the floor -- mostly because it will end in a kiss. A man who would smile at that sort of interaction, rather than think it means I want to do serious damage to him (and I would not attempt to do serious damage to a man in a 'playfight' such as this). A man who wouldnt assume that this behaviour means I dont respect him. Perhaps a man who would chuckle at it. A man who would fight back (not wanting to seriously damage me either). We'd then tease each other over who won. I really am just talking about interaction, here. The question is "Why assume?", "Why do you not want women who behave like this, when good natured 'conflict' is what most mammals do for enjoyment?".

Root conflict in a relationship, the sort of conflict that could destroy the happiness of the relationship, should be sorted by talking and not by throwing plates. I'm not talking about throwing plates. A disagreement on which milk we should be buying? We'll disagree, I'll get wound up, he may get exasperated. We stand and look at each other. We'll scuffle, I'll get him on the floor and he'll laugh at how my face is crunched up. I may hit him on the arm for that comment, still wound up, and he'll laugh and say how my strike feels like a kitten batting with it's paw. Then he'll remind me the shop is closing soon, and we really must get some milk. We go and get some milk. No one gets hurt, no one is scared, and then we eat some cereal (with the milk I wanted to buy, because I won the scuffle. We'd buy his milk if he won).
...

Ahhh now i get it! When you say violent you mean passionate.

I must admit i thought that you were a bit odd when i started reading this thread but i get what you are trying to say now (i hope).
I would be willing to bet that you're personalty wise a lot like my one of my ex's. She was a hell of a lady, i remember one time when i was at her place and i was helping her to tidy up
her bedroom and she straight up walloped me in the face with a pillow out of the blue and started giggling, so i shoved her and back and she tripped over and landed on the bed (which i knew would happen, wouldn't have done it if she wasn't gonna land on something soft) needles to say good times ensued...

Umm yeah so anyway i wouldn't worry about finding a partner who will accept you for whom you are, it'll happen in when you least expect it. These things always do. Just enjoy your life and try top have as much fun as possible along the way in the mean time.

 

[Heathrow]

Root conflict in a relationship, the sort of conflict that could destroy the happiness of the relationship, should be sorted by talking and not by throwing plates. I'm not talking about throwing plates. A disagreement on which milk we should be buying? We'll disagree, I'll get wound up, he may get exasperated. We stand and look at each other. We'll scuffle, I'll get him on the floor and he'll laugh at how my face is crunched up. I may hit him on the arm for that comment, still wound up, and he'll laugh and say how my strike feels like a kitten batting with it's paw. Then he'll remind me the shop is closing soon, and we really must get some milk. We go and get some milk. No one gets hurt, no one is scared, and then we eat some cereal (with the milk I wanted to buy, because I won the scuffle. We'd buy his milk if he won).

*tch* How could you ever get into a fight over milk? Obviously the only milk worth buying is whole milk and anything else is watered down hogwash.

 

[IrisEver]

...
I don't think it's that men don't want to be challenged, its that often we look to our partners for support and we don't want to be fighting all the time...

But this is massive "all men think X" when in fact we don't. We are who we are, not some collective. There's certainly men who appreciate a hot-tempered, angry, play-fighting woman, you just need to find them. They most likely don't hang out on the Escapist discussing symbolism in Zelda though.

I could be supportive and reassuring if a situation calls for it, but I don't want a man who needs incredible amounts of reassurance from me. His goldfish dies and he's genuinely cut up about it and requests support? Sure, I'm there. But at the same time, he should be able to support himself during the every day. I shouldn't have to play the supportive role day after day. Again, I don't want to "mother" anyone. I'd love him, but that does not mean I should act like his mother. I tried that, and it was just awful. It was exhausting. It was like holding a tiny little dragonfly in my hands, and one wrong move and he'd flip and cause drama. No. I dont want that. I'm a partner. We're together, but both stand on our own feet.

Unless it's a situation like the goldfish, I'm not going to wrap in cotton wool anymore. I would expect the same. I want to know I'm loved and appreciated, but not fawned over. I'd let him know he was loved, and I'm also affectionate, and of course would like return affection back in a romantic relationship. I'd also expect support in hard situations, of course.

Perhaps it does reek of "all men think x", but I didnt mean it in such a way, just as I'm sure you didnt mean to imply that a man cannot be like this while also enjoying video games. I was just looking for insight, of which I got a lot.

 

[staika]

It doesn't bother me as long as I stay unabused. My dad likes to joke with me and tell me that I should go for the softer spoken girls because I look like it would be easy to abuse me. This is what he tells me:
"Now son, when your at college make sure to go for the softer spoken girls."
"Why dad?"
"Because you look like you'll be easy to abuse and I'd hate for you to come home and your the ***** of your girlfriend."
"-_-, Thanks dad."

 

[SckizoBoy]

snip

...

...

What you're describing there is that you have a propensity for playful banter and the physicality that comes with it. Not violence or aggression, per se, just assertiveness with a healthy dose of charisma (which I'm surprised is a word I haven't seen on the thread thus far).

Anyway, I'm not all that bothered about a woman's personality, be it fun, dour or easy-going or whatever, because when things are going well, you accept each other's flaws and ride with it because you love this person. So strong women don't scare me, but they don't inherently draw my eye, either. I have girl friends aplenty who are independent, don't take shit from anyone, least of all their other halves, and joke with the best of the guys over a pint, but I have girl friends who more fit the 'stereotypical image' of a woman as well (to a greater or lesser degree, though to be fair, lesser for the most part).

However, these days I find it impossible to be genuinely attracted to a woman when things are OK, only when things have turned their life on its head. How they deal with upheaval, despair and sorrow determines my attraction. There is a fine line to be trodden between needing me to see them through/it having too great an effect on them and trying to shrug it off/denying or disregard its effects.

And depressingly, this thread has finally made me realise a sad truth: when you're happy, I'm the worst boyfriend you can have; but when you're sad, I'm the best boyfriend you can have.

I welcome any and all derision...