Find me a guy who doesn't want to look like the guys in Free! (not literally of course - they are anime characters after all) and I'll show you a liar.Shanahanapp said:
Virtual Hotties
- Thread starter The Wooster
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One of the issues I've always had with the argument that male characters aren't designed for females to be attracted to, but for males as a power fantasy, is that it presumes to know what females find attractive about males. Some females find guys like Kratos attractive, some find slime anime style guys like in Free! to be attractive. The idea that male power fantasy guys are somehow explicitly not attractive to females presumes too much. (Not that you seem to be arguing that exactly, but I've seen that argued before.)Shanahanapp said:
My wife is even into the slimmer guys with long hair and big eyes and finds the dudes from Free! to be boring as hell from a visual standpoint. That mixed with how many romance novel covers share extraordinarily similar characteristics to "male power fantasy" shots from games makes me think that the divide is not so great as some claim.
To clarify, I've played some of both. Master Chief is often silent during gameplay, but he still speaks a little during cutscenes. I still remember the scene in the first stage of Halo 2, where he's going "to give the covenant back their bomb". Outside of Other M, Samus is mute. Other M was the first game with a talking Samus (mostly monologuing). Nintendo really seems to have a thing for mute characters.An Ceannaire said:
Anyway, as you mentioned, I think having a companion would give her some more character like Cortana did for Master Chief, without compromising her image as a tough loner. In fact, giving Larry an expressive, outgoing persona might serve to reinforce Samus's established character, since she'd be the stoic one by comparison.
Think I might be a liar then. I guess you might say that I wouldn't terribly mind looking like the guys from Free!, but in all honesty I'd rather look like an MMA fighter. Cut and fit, not too skinny and not looking like a body builder.An Ceannaire said:
Pfft, the only reason I wouldn't want a Larry A.I. is the whole overly bulky Fabio thing he's got going on, give me a Chris Pratt or Robert Downey Jr. nude lookalike or somethiiiuuueehh I mean what?
Man Cortana sure did uh... change, over the years.
I like to think MC's mind influenced her looks while she was in there.
His dirty, dirty mind.
Man Cortana sure did uh... change, over the years.
I like to think MC's mind influenced her looks while she was in there.
His dirty, dirty mind.
I get that some women are attracted to that type of design but I'd still say the characters aren't being specifically designed to appeal to women like that. I think it's mainly down to the demographic, males being thought of as the "main demographic" of course (which is another issue). The characters in Free were specifically designed to be attractive to mainly females. That doesn't mean all females find them attractive. By the same token I think most generic male characters aren't designed to be attractive to females, they're designed for the whole power fantasy thing, but that doesn't mean that no females find them attractive.Gorrath said:
That's what I have a hard time with though. "Most generic male characters" are designed to fit whatever tropes a piece relies on. I think it may be fair to say, "The designers picked this character design because it plays to demographic X." I think it is unfair to say, "This character is made to appeal to male power fantasies and NOT female sexual fantasies." There is overlap between "male power fantasy" and "female sexual fantasy," and that overlap isn't trivial if romance novel covers are primarily intended to sell romance novels to women.Shanahanapp said:
I would say, "The characters in Free! are specifically designed to be attractive to people who find that style attractive." That would include women, gay and bi men and even straight guys who like looking at skinny anime dudes. There is a huge demand for that style of male character design among the female audience, but I would never say that the designs were chosen to appeal to women at the exclusion of men.
I am picking on the semantics here because one set of language seems to imply intentional or tangential exclusion. The other set of language admits a bias toward a primary demographic, but does not claim intentional or tangential exclusion on the part of the designers. I don't think calling out the designs as being exclusionary is warranted based on the designs alone. Not sure if I'm communicating what I am thinking effectively though. I may also just be pedantic here, not sure.
I know you're joking, but time for a Halo lore interjection!Grimh said:
Part of the Spartan II augmentation process during puberty involved the suppression of certain normal pubescent developments. Among other things, this resulted in a very low sex drive and an inability to have children (in the case of the female spartans at least. I'm not sure if the male spartans were sterile or not). Also, smart AI can't change their appearance. They choose their physical form during their creation/manifestation and can't change it during their 7 year lifespan.
*edit whoops.Gorrath said:
I think I get what you're saying. I'm not really saying I think the designers were being specifically exclusive. I just think it's more likely they'd design to what appeals to guys mostly due to that being the demographic and then whatever crossover that has into appealing to other demographics is likely not what they were focusing on. I think most male character designs don't try to NOT appeal to females I just think it's likely that the designers put less thought into that aspect of the design.
Two things:Shanahanapp said:
Why do we have to design characters that visually appeal to a specific gender anyway? Plenty of popular gaming characters were not designed in this way. Movies are best when they don't pander - the same can (usually) be said of games.
Also, the male demographic is the "main demographic" for AAA titles - if we're talking purely in terms of numbers. There's no disputing that.
Unless it's a Japanese game (see Final Fantasy).CaitSeith said:
At least they're willing to put women/girls as the protagonist in Japan without pandering too much to either gender. Now, if they could only find a way to give them a bit of personality (I'm looking at you, Lightning!)
Good God, not this again.
Well, first of all I have to say what I've said in other occasions: the male equivalent of the female chest (in the matter of "sexual attraction") is not the penis. It's... the chest. Or more like the musculature in general. A well-toned body (not something too overkill, like say, Kratos, or Marcus Fenix)(also, ass-cheeks are included here too) is as attractive to women (or at the very least gay men) as a decent pair of tits is to men.
Secondly, unless you are a fetishist, an oversized penis is not attractive. Period. And even then, I'm sure outside of porn everyone would find it pretty disgusting. Just think about this: would you find mons the size of steaks attractive?
Well, first of all I have to say what I've said in other occasions: the male equivalent of the female chest (in the matter of "sexual attraction") is not the penis. It's... the chest. Or more like the musculature in general. A well-toned body (not something too overkill, like say, Kratos, or Marcus Fenix)(also, ass-cheeks are included here too) is as attractive to women (or at the very least gay men) as a decent pair of tits is to men.
Secondly, unless you are a fetishist, an oversized penis is not attractive. Period. And even then, I'm sure outside of porn everyone would find it pretty disgusting. Just think about this: would you find mons the size of steaks attractive?
That's true but this did start as a discussion on the need for more male eye-candy, so we (or I at least) are mainly referring to characters designed to be attractive to some demographic. I don't mind pandering too much, I just think that there should be pandering for more than one or two demographics.An Ceannaire said:
That's pretty much exactly what I mean. When people say "This character is designed to appeal to men, NOT women," it implies an exclusionary stance by the designer and also purports to know what females like and don't like. That's why I don't like it when people use that verbiage, the implications of that phrasing are problematic. There's a huge difference between, "This game is meant to appeal to this demographic" and "This game is meant to exclude that demographic." Not that a game couldn't be both, but the second is an accusation that needs more evidence than someone looking at Kratos and going, "Nope, not for women."Shanahanapp said:
In short, I think you and I are in agreement.