Virtual Hotties

[CaitSeith]

Interchange the models, and you have the way of thinking of the AAA game industry for choosing the main character (except Tomb Raider).

Unless it's a Japanese game (see Final Fantasy).

At least they're willing to put women/girls as the protagonist in Japan without pandering too much to either gender. Now, if they could only find a way to give them a bit of personality (I'm looking at you, Lightning!)

Oh, yeah. I forgot about them. It's just that the Northamerican AAA game market seems so dominated by western AAA studios that it's easy to lose track of the others.

 

[An Ceannaire]

Two things:

Why do we have to design characters that visually appeal to a specific gender anyway? Plenty of popular gaming characters were not designed in this way. Movies are best when they don't pander - the same can (usually) be said of games.

That's true but this did start as a discussion on the need for more male eye-candy, so we (or I at least) are mainly referring to characters designed to be attractive to some demographic. I don't mind pandering too much, I just think that there should be pandering for more than one or two demographics.

With the retarded way the AAA industry is structured, many developers can only "afford" to pander to one demographic. And logic would dictate that they pander to the most lucrative one.

However, I even think that the way they pander to males is all wrong. Some developers seem to have lost sight of what the male demographic actually wants (although to be fair, the young male gamers are not renowned for knowing what they want - and I say that as one myself), especially when it comes to the subject of eye candy. Sure, big breasts alone will net you some sales from the more sexually deprived of the demographic, but that hook alone isn't enough. Now, combine a sexy body with an interesting character, and then you'll have the attention of a large percentage of Male gamers. The best example I've come across of this is Mass Effect. Which female character is often cited by Mass Effect fans as their favourite? Exotic and intelligent Liara has her legions of fans, as does the genetically perfect and caustic Miranda. But it's Tali who commands an unusual amount of adoration - despite the fact that you can see more skin on a woman in the most strict of Arab countries. Sure, her outfit is tight in all the right places, but she has a fairly average body-type. Tali has won most her fans due to her personality.

 

[CaitSeith]

Guys, according to his Twitter, Grey isn't doing a comic on the ZQ conspiracy because he believes it's more important to focus on the events in Ferguson right now *Cough Gaza Defense Cough*.

It's very egocentric of you to complain about Grey's focus; while the PSN was under hacker's attack, blocking access to tens of thousands of gamers. *sarcasm alert*

 

[raankh]

Two things:

Why do we have to design characters that visually appeal to a specific gender anyway? Plenty of popular gaming characters were not designed in this way. Movies are best when they don't pander - the same can (usually) be said of games.

That's true but this did start as a discussion on the need for more male eye-candy, so we (or I at least) are mainly referring to characters designed to be attractive to some demographic. I don't mind pandering too much, I just think that there should be pandering for more than one or two demographics.

With the retarded way the AAA industry is structured, many developers can only "afford" to pander to one demographic. And logic would dictate that they pander to the most lucrative one.

However, I even think that the way they pander to males is all wrong. Some developers seem to have lost sight of what the male demographic actually wants (although to be fair, the young male gamers are not renowned for knowing what they want - and I say that as one myself), especially when it comes to the subject of eye candy. Sure, big breasts alone will net you some sales from the more sexually deprived of the demographic, but that hook alone isn't enough. Now, combine a sexy body with an interesting character, and then you'll have the attention of a large percentage of Male gamers. The best example I've come across of this is Mass Effect. Which female character is often cited by Mass Effect fans as their favourite? Exotic and intelligent Liara has her legions of fans, as does the genetically perfect and caustic Miranda. But it's Tali who commands an unusual amount of adoration - despite the fact that you can see more skin on a woman in the most strict of Arab countries. Sure, her outfit is tight in all the right places, but she has a fairly average body-type. Tali has won most her fans due to her personality.

Also, her LEGS BEND THE WRONG WAY!!!

Sorry, had to get that out there. Still my favourite ME character, although I'd prefer her a bit more Huckleberry Finn boyish and "aw, shucks" from a character perspective.

 

[Darth_Payn]

I feel like the industry needs more Larry's. I think there's a place for both Cortana's and Larry's.

I don't think most people would have enough space for Larry. D:

First off, Larry is to blue-collar to appeal to the warrior-woman-on-the-go who could use something to class up the kinds of situations she usually winds up in. Something like Gerald.
Secondly, do you mean space in their hard drive? Because that male hologram is packing a bazooka down there! I can't calculate how much memory space it takes to render THAT!

 

[Gorrath]

Two things:

Why do we have to design characters that visually appeal to a specific gender anyway? Plenty of popular gaming characters were not designed in this way. Movies are best when they don't pander - the same can (usually) be said of games.

That's true but this did start as a discussion on the need for more male eye-candy, so we (or I at least) are mainly referring to characters designed to be attractive to some demographic. I don't mind pandering too much, I just think that there should be pandering for more than one or two demographics.

With the retarded way the AAA industry is structured, many developers can only "afford" to pander to one demographic. And logic would dictate that they pander to the most lucrative one.

However, I even think that the way they pander to males is all wrong. Some developers seem to have lost sight of what the male demographic actually wants (although to be fair, the young male gamers are not renowned for knowing what they want - and I say that as one myself), especially when it comes to the subject of eye candy. Sure, big breasts alone will net you some sales from the more sexually deprived of the demographic, but that hook alone isn't enough. Now, combine a sexy body with an interesting character, and then you'll have the attention of a large percentage of Male gamers. The best example I've come across of this is Mass Effect. Which female character is often cited by Mass Effect fans as their favourite? Exotic and intelligent Liara has her legions of fans, as does the genetically perfect and caustic Miranda. But it's Tali who commands an unusual amount of adoration - despite the fact that you can see more skin on a woman in the most strict of Arab countries. Sure, her outfit is tight in all the right places, but she has a fairly average body-type. Tali has won most her fans due to her personality.

I'd say that's because the male demographic isn't a hegemony. This is what I'm on about in these kinds of threads. Male gamers want all sorts of different things because us being male is only a tiny portion of what informs our tastes (and not even a particularly important part either!)

What constitutes a sexy body for one male might not do much for another. Some may find Jiggle Physics Volley Ball titillating while others will find it creepy, or boring or bizarre or any number of other things. Tali's got a lot going for her, especially because she's exotic (like Liara) but also has a strong air of mystery about her due to the helmet; it allows the player to insert their own fantasy about what she really looks like under that suit.

Personally, I wanted Samara. She was older, more experienced and also unobtainable; quite the intoxicating mix for my tastes. The fact that she had big breasts was of little importance compared to her other traits. I don't think it's a case of males not knowing what they want so much as the "male" part of the equation being of little concern.

 

[Shanahanapp]

snip

*edit whoops.

I think I get what you're saying. I'm not really saying I think the designers were being specifically exclusive. I just think it's more likely they'd design to what appeals to guys mostly due to that being the demographic and then whatever crossover that has into appealing to other demographics is likely not what they were focusing on. I think most male character designs don't try to NOT appeal to females I just think it's likely that the designers put less thought into that aspect of the design.

See, here's the problem you and many others have when arguing about the "male power fantasy." The "male power fantasy" is NOT just about being big and strong. Part of the fantasy is that many guys grow up thinking that the big, muscular men are what women think are attracted. They think that because a lot of women DO find that attractive. That's why many male protagonists are created to look like this. Power can be seen as sexy to people. The fantasy for a lot of guys is about being the perfect specimen. Strong and desirable. I don't know why this is so hard for people to understand.

I'm not saying all women find characters designed that way unattractive, I'm just saying I feel like most characters are designed with the male demographic in mind. It's rare to find a character designed specifically to appeal to women, not rare to find one specifically designed to appeal to men.

 

[eberhart]

Guys, according to his Twitter, Grey isn't doing a comic on the ZQ conspiracy because he believes it's more important to focus on the events in Ferguson right now *Cough Gaza Defense Cough*.

It's very egocentric of you to complain about Grey's focus; while the PSN was under hacker's attack, blocking access to tens of thousands of gamers. *sarcasm alert*

When are we going to end up with Gaza Defense of Gaza Defense ?

 

[An Ceannaire]

What constitutes a sexy body for one male might not do much for another. Some may find Jiggle Physics Volley Ball titillating while others will find it creepy, or boring or bizarre or any number of other things. Tali's got a lot going for her, especially because she's exotic (like Liara) but also has a strong air of mystery about her due to the helmet; it allows the player to insert their own fantasy about what she really looks like under that suit.

Damn good point! Present a good personality, and leave the visual details up to the player. I guess that explains the element within the ME fanbase who never wanted Tali to be unmasked.

I was a Liara guy since ME1. I found her intelligence juxtaposed with her inability to understand Humans endearing. Also, space magic!

 

[MrMan999]

My take on Cortana is that she actually modeled herself around actresses/models of said time period, to achieve better feedback from mostly male soldiers
Guys, lets be honest, to whom would you respond better?
CABAL
or
Cortana
I know I'd pick Cortana every single time.

The only thing you accomplished right here is make me sad that there will be no more Command and Conquer games. I hope you are happy.

 

[Asclepion]

Seeing this, I am left with one question:

Why would you ever go with Halo 4 Master Chief over Halo 2?

 

[Erttheking]

Wasn't that Adam's job in Metroid Fusion.

You mean General Cockblock? Like he's going to authorize any sort of female or male fanservice, let alone drop his pants for the ladies!

In Fusion he wasn't much of a "cockblock", he was actually a decent character, but I guess I'd say something entirely different if the GBA's cartdridges had enough space for voice acting :/

No kidding. It's kind of sad that I liked Adam a hell of a lot better when he was a glowing purple flashlight that communicated entirely through text and was working to undermine Samus' work through half the game. Mainly because he was SUPPOSED to be seen as a jackass then and Samus actually acted like a Human being, getting pissed off at him when he gets in the way of her stopping the X instead of desperately hoping that daddy will love her.

OT: I chuckled, but this comic made me a little sad.

One, because of the increase in how sexualized Cortana got from game to game to the point where it was just shameless pandering. Coupled with how she went from a fun snarky hacker to a emotionally fragile flower, they just kinda butchered her.

Two, because of how we haven't gotten a new Metroid game since 2007. I don't care if there were two releases between then and now, because one was just a re-release of the Prime Trilogy and the other was just shit.

 

[CaitSeith]

Guys, according to his Twitter, Grey isn't doing a comic on the ZQ conspiracy because he believes it's more important to focus on the events in Ferguson right now *Cough Gaza Defense Cough*.

It's very egocentric of you to complain about Grey's focus; while the PSN was under hacker's attack, blocking access to tens of thousands of gamers. *sarcasm alert*

When are we going to end up with Gaza Defense of Gaza Defense ?

In reality I was half-serious. At this time I can't avoid putting on my conspiracy theorist hat and think that the ZQ thing is a distraction, so gamers don't retaliate when the hackers make a direct attack.

 

[Undomesticated Equine]

I dont get it? What's the joke?

 

[Piorn]

Does Larry also tell Samus not to wear her protective gear while walking in lava?

Also, isn't it ironic that THE XBox-exclusive Franchise has a sidekick consisting of BluRays? *rimshot*

 

[paketep]

Indeed, nothing else going on this week. And nothing to do with the Escapist at all.

 

[TKretts3]

I don't think even Critical Miss is dumb/brave enough to go stick their head in that shark tank. It seems to be a topic that will be officially ignored while everyone in the real world talks about it endlessly.

Real world? I've only ever seen this 'issue' discussed on the internet, and only on specific sites on the internet. I don't know about you, but when I watch the news they're usually too busy talking about Gaza, ISIS, the Ukraine, and some contrived presidential scandal to be talking about some contrived internet scandal.

 

[blackrave]

snip

The only thing you accomplished right here is make me sad that there will be no more Command and Conquer games. I hope you are happy.

I don't think I can be happy, since THAT game came out :'(
But stay strong buddy, we both will eventually get through this mess
Just keep living, one day at the time.

 

[DrOswald]

snip

*edit whoops.

I think I get what you're saying. I'm not really saying I think the designers were being specifically exclusive. I just think it's more likely they'd design to what appeals to guys mostly due to that being the demographic and then whatever crossover that has into appealing to other demographics is likely not what they were focusing on. I think most male character designs don't try to NOT appeal to females I just think it's likely that the designers put less thought into that aspect of the design.

See, here's the problem you and many others have when arguing about the "male power fantasy." The "male power fantasy" is NOT just about being big and strong. Part of the fantasy is that many guys grow up thinking that the big, muscular men are what women think are attracted. They think that because a lot of women DO find that attractive. That's why many male protagonists are created to look like this. Power can be seen as sexy to people. The fantasy for a lot of guys is about being the perfect specimen. Strong and desirable. I don't know why this is so hard for people to understand.

I'm not saying all women find characters designed that way unattractive, I'm just saying I feel like most characters are designed with the male demographic in mind. It's rare to find a character designed specifically to appeal to women, not rare to find one specifically designed to appeal to men.

Probably true, but a lot of characters that people say are designed for men are really not. There is huge overlap between what men want in a male protagonist and what women want in a male protagonist. Using a non video game example, Thor.

Thor as a character appeals to women on a physical level. He is eye candy for the ladies (on top of all the other things his character is.) But if he was a video game character the automatic assumption would be that he was designed as a male power fantasy. He has all the normal male power fantasy elements, after all. Muscular, tall, attractive, the body of a god. All of these things that are meant to appeal to women are the same points used to demonstrate that male video game characters are male power fantasies designed for men.

The automatic assumption is that a male character is designed for the male gamer and that female characters are designed for the male gamer. It is a serious case of confirmation bias, one that poisons the discourse of gender equality in gaming by applying a greatly unequal standard to characters of different genders. No useful discussion can be had because any potential counter examples are immediately dismissed, often without serious consideration.

It is a logic loop. Everyone knows that video game characters designed for male gamers, so those attractive women and buff men must be made for male gamers, sexy women and power fantasies. And how does everyone know games are designed for male gamers? Just look at all the sexy women and male power fantasies! How can they not be designed for men?

It is a double standard most often backed up by a logic loop.

Now, I am not necessarily saying you are wrong. The double standard may be justified in this case. But it is a double standard, and you want to be careful when applying a double standard. Even the best intended double standard can poison a civil debate and make it turn nasty, and this is one that is already charged with emotion and mud slinging on both sides. And it gets frustrating when such an obvious double standard is so often used.