Volition Dev Vs. Pre-Owned Games

[Vivi22]

IF this was done, I wouldn't buy that console.
IF all current game consoles had anti-used game software, I would sit out that generation and hope the next one corrected said mistake.

I'd be right there with you.

What I think some developers don't seem to realize is that doing away with used sales could actually hurt their business if they continue with the current pricing models they use on consoles. As it is, games rarely fall more than $20 below their original price until after the first year or so of release. Sure some less popular titles will drop a bit faster, but $40 is still a pretty common sticker price at the end of year 1, and that's with pricing competition from used games. What happens when they get to decide when they drop the price?

Perhaps even more importantly to their bottom line, most gamers aren't like me. I'll buy a game and hold onto it until the day I die. I don't usually trade in a game unless there's absolutely nothing enjoyable about it. But because of that, I have to either buy used on occasion or buy fewer games, because I spend a lot of money on this hobby and I never get any of it back. But a lot of people who are going out and buying games like COD or Madden every year the day they release are only willing/able to do so because they went in and traded stuff they don't play anymore for store credit. What happens to new sales if people can't do that anymore? I think developers like Volition would actually stand to be the hardest hit if your average gamer now has to buy fewer games because they can't trade anything.

Services like Steam get around this by having frequent sales and deals, even for newer titles so they can tap into those customers who don't want to spend $60 on a game even sooner. But that's not as easy to pull off in a retail setting, in no small part because you have so many people grabbing for a piece of the pie and you're less able to coordinate. And if companies like Gamestop were to find their bread and butter sales disappear, how long do developers and publishers really expect to be able to reap the benefits before they start pressuring them into contracts which favour the retailer even more?

But perhaps most importantly, this kind of speculation isn't new. It was a rumour that was going around about the PS3 almost 10 years ago and it turned out to be a load of crap then, just as it will now. Because all it would take is one company not limiting used titles to absolutely kill the ones that do. None of these manufacturers are Valve, and they are not entering a market with zero competition. If they decide to cut used titles, they may as well bow out now.

 

[Dogstile]

but that could be solved by Microsoft implementing its own rental service. Gamers who want to lend games to their friends could conceivably be accommodated by a system similar to Amazon's book lending policy, which transfers the license for a set period of time.

Come on, Grey. We all know that both of those would either never happen, or be outrageously priced services.

Those are solutions Durall himself offered. Personally, judging by Games For Windows Live, I don't think Microsoft could organize a pissup in a brewery.

That's going in my list of things to say to make myself seem funny. Bravo sir.

OT: Welp, as much as I love saints, I won't be buying it if they keep being, well, dicks about the issue. Some of us can't afford everything new anymore. I used to be able to, but well, times change.

 

[suitepee7]

the mans an arse. its a terrible idea because the games will still be a silly amount. i'll stick to pc and my ps3 until i'm convinced of reasons why i should actually get a new console...

 

[vviki]

"And while we're fantasizing, I would like a flying cat that dispenses harps"YZ. So for our next developer fantasy: New Xbox 720 will have an integrated and improved Kintect, that will do a retina scan and submit it to a server to be verified, before you can play the game.

 

[Jaythulhu]

I'm sorry, but what games have volition released that are worth paying full price for? I've played some Saints 3 at my mate's place, and I got incredibly bored after half an hour. Doing the exact same thing over and over and over? I'd sooner play WoW. At least there I can chat to other people. Nothing they've released is worth the over $100AU (100$AU is roughly 106$US and 62GBP) we're charged.

Pre-owned is the only way to get any value for money here, unless you're a pc gamer exclusively, in which case you can either wait 6 - 12 months for the bollocks price to drop or pirate the damn thing.

 

[Baresark]

LoL, that is right, it won't kill gamers to not be able to play used or rented games. But it will piss them off. I guess the guy doesn't like to make money. No worries, you keep up that attitude and no one will want to buy your games. Darn shame this guy had to go and blow his mouth off. Now he has to be put on the list. I mean, I hardly play console games at all, but there has been times where buying used meant the difference between being able to afford something and not being able to afford something. I can't respect a view that doesn't respect right of ownership or consumer rights.

 

[Akimoto]

Durall - "Maybe something as simple as educating them could help solve the problem..."

Why Durall? Why do you hate us so much as to implicitly call us uneducated?

 

[Bluntman1138]

You know, here in America it would be SUPER EASY for developers and console makers to get it on the used games sales.

All they have to do is get together, and create ACTUAL COMPETITION with Gamestop and the likes. If all the big money devs, publishers, and console makers did this, they could take down gamestop, and start getting their money both ways. Not to mention cutting out the middle man, and increasing profits as well.

Of course, they would rather whine, *****, and moan about it, than actually DO anything WORTH WHILE about it.

I personally hope EVERY next gen console has this feature when they launch. I think it would be the funniest thing to open the internet 2 weeks after launch, and the console companies and devs are wondering why NO ONE is buying their shit anymore.

Want people to pay $60.00 for a new game?? HOW BOUT MAKING A GAME WORTH $60.00. IMO only about 2-3 games a year come out that i see is WORTH $60.00 new.

 

[PBMcNair]

By the way (and this is less relevant but still needs to be said) some people complain that most games cost $60 now. Games are extremely expensive to make, even moreso now that the technology is improving so fast. I can't say I enjoy paying more, but everything has its price, and if you want it, you'll have to be willing to pay for it.

That's a design decision, good games can and will appeal to people even without multi-millions invested in state of the art rendering tech. It's a risk the developer/publisher make when creating their game that they hope will sell the best. The developer has failed if the player is done with their $60 game in the span of a week and returns it.

This. I don't need graphics to be cutting edge to enjoy a game, I still play deus ex regularly. Without a texture update. In my mind, its like food. Yes, its can be nice to have something pretty, but as long as it tastes good, I'm happy.

Graphics only NEED to be advanced enough to support the playstyle e.g. MGS3 was set in a jungle and focused on camoflage, so its graphics were as advanced as were needed. Likewise, tetris uses blocks, so its graphics are as advanced as needed.

 

[aegix drakan_v1legacy]

"People often don't understand the cost that goes into creating these huge experiences that we put on the shelves for only $60."

...Seriously? Since when has 60 bucks become pocket change?

$60 is a LOT.

Game companies REALLY need to start using smaller budgets again. It's crazy how they feel they can't make enough profit off of selling $60 games.

But yeah, this whole idea sucks. With game pricing the way it is, Used Games are a necessary part of the system. It allows people to trade in their finished games for money they can use to buy the NEXT game.

If game pricing stays the way it is, and this kind of system is implemented, then people will be VERY reluctant to buy any game that is a risk for them. Ergo, cool unique games like Okami would tank even WORSE than they already do! Which is going to lead to the industry becoming even MORE safe and stale. Not a good thing.

 

[aegix drakan_v1legacy]

This. I don't need graphics to be cutting edge to enjoy a game, I still play deus ex regularly. Without a texture update. In my mind, its like food. Yes, its can be nice to have something pretty, but as long as it tastes good, I'm happy.

Graphics only NEED to be advanced enough to support the playstyle e.g. MGS3 was set in a jungle and focused on camoflage, so its graphics were as advanced as were needed. Likewise, tetris uses blocks, so its graphics are as advanced as needed.

^ I'm with this guy.

Honestly, if graphics hadn't evolved past the gamecube level, I'd still be happy. As long as the graphics looks somewhat nice, and the gameplay/story/etc is solid, I'll have a great time with the game.

Hell, I still think Bloody Roar: Primal fury is a gorgeous game, and that's distinctly last gen.

 

[Akimoto]

$60 is a LOT.

Game companies REALLY need to start using smaller budgets again. It's crazy how they feel they can't make enough profit off of selling $60 games.

Agreed. My first COD was $30. I sort of blame the advertisements and the current economy/inflation.

 

[Al-Bundy-da-G]

So what happens when the Nextbox or NextStation breaks? Do we lose all our games? Do we have to send the console away for weeks so they can transfer the games? What if the warranty has run out?

I really do not see any way that this will not just end up with piracy skyrocketing.

I've already been fitted with a peg leg and hook out of anticipation.

Just got a new pc and I've got my friend to come by and help me update it. If the next playstation has this shit on it I'm either buying a Wii U or become a pc only guy.

 

[Domehammer]

I say we boycott Volition until they go under. Make them a example to other developers that gamers also borrow friends games and bring them over when they hang out. They must suffer!

OT: I would quit being a console gamer if this happened or learn how to mod a console. The fact developers are thinking this is fine is awful. I think I will buy Volition games only used though unless they try to say there sorry for expressing there view on used games.

 

[Bluntman1138]

Maybe, just maybe you console gamers would not have to pay 60$ for your new games if you would not support business models like GameStop,

Or maybe the game companies could make a game without buying Super Bowl adverts for it. Or prime time advertising slots. Perhaps we need LESS A-list celebrity voices. Perhaps we dont need Jonah Hill to be paid lots of money to make a advert for a third rate FPS that is a copy of the previous years third rate FPS. Maybe we dont need game companies to pay Soft drink companies to include codes on Mountain Dew.

You see, you can blame it all on one company or business model. And i can point it to many other different reasons.

Gamestop is not to blame. The Devs are to blame. Make a game worth $60.00, and i will buy it. I mean REALLY, how many people here thinks Fable 3 was worth $60.00? Red Faction??

Take out the used market, then the game companies have a MONOPOLY. They wont need to lower prices for new game sales, because they would have ZERO competition.

I remember back in the Mid 80's, 2 years after the Nintendo Launched, Super Mario Bros. was still full price. Without competition, there is no need to lower prices on older inventory.

 

[surg3n]

So to summarise...

''Gamers, bend over''

It's ok though, if that affects a service that you use, Microsoft will make their own version, so you'll just switch to that. Damn, it's almost like we haven't been buying pre-owned games since the industry bloody started - all of a sudden videogames are costing millions to develop, and we should be grateful that they only charge $60 for the privilege of playing it for 6 fucking hours, before rendering the disc useless. I tend to complete games then give them to my nephews or younger brother, can this self-intitled douchebag please explain this to them for me? While he's at it, maybe my 6-yo nephew will explain the concept of ownership to him.

Frankly, the entire games industry needs to learn one thing - WE keep you dicks afloat by buying games and hardware. Make that a pain for us and we'll just go an pirate your games. You guys think that your scratchcard codes are somehow uncrackable? - that nobody can write a keygen for your games, and bypass your whole dream scenario. Here's something for this developers craw... Microsoft and Sony and Nintendo have to sell the new consoles first, and how do they expect to do that while your sword of Damocles is dangling there. We are the consumers, and it's up to us if we support new consoles and new ownership models - frankly I'm happy with the umpteen consoles I already have, it's no skin off my nose. Videogame sales makes or breaks a console - messing with the whole formula is not going to end well for them, lets see if they actually enforce this.

 

[WanderingFool]

Durall admits that such a system would have its faults. Game rental companies, for example, would be rendered moot, but that could be solved by Microsoft implementing its own rental service.

Oh FUCK NO!!! Microsoft already screwed up their Games for Windows Live... Last thing we need is a fucked up rental system from them...

 

[Nashidar]

Tell you what, Jameson, the instant a AAA title gets released in Australia with a RRP of "only $60", come talk to me.

Until that day, stop talking shit.

This is so true. In Australia the RRP of a game would be closer to $90 - $100.

Ridiculous.

The Pre-owned version of the same game usually brings the price down to $70 - $80.

Still stupid.

The industry to needs to focus more on reforming international laws (stupid crap like not being able to see something on the Internet because I'm in Australia and not in the US) and changing other things (if Microsoft want to do this - allow storage on external HDDs/ NAS devices AND provide at least 1TB of hdd space on a drive that can handle NTFS/EXT3/4 ...)

Regulate prices so they are all indexed to one currency. In Australia - the AUD is above parity with USD. Yet - a game costs more here than in the US. How does that even make any sense? If its $50 USD then it should $50 AUD or less.

Those above few points are just the tip of the iceberg of what needs be reformed before even thinking about locking out the ability to play pre-owned games.

 

[Aggieknight]

Another game company volunteers to not get my money.

Seriously guys, cars are really expensive to build. If Toyota had to compete with pre-owned car sales, they would go out of business. Am I right?

How does Toyota actually compete with "used" car sales? They monetize the service stream. In fact...the smart ones give it away for free for a little while (BMW, Audi, Cadillac), then you are "hooked".

CoD Elite is a perfect example of it. The Gears of War "subscription" is a good example of it. Monetize the stream over time. Perhaps throw in 3 months of CoD Elite for free for new buyers, but used buyers have to pay for it period. Planned DLC is another example of how to accomplish this.

Unfortunately, this requires publishers to create games that people will want to play 6 months from now rather than a 6 - 10 hour experience with no replayability. That is the heart of their problem.

 

[Notthatbright]

I've never paid more than $5 for a Violition game. And I never will. Saints Row 3? Bargain bin material. Summoner? Ha. Not even worth picking up.

But that's secondary. There are unintended consequences to this. What happens when there are no more new copies of a game? All those used copies are simply collections of paper and plastic. And the always relevant hardware failure, or theft.

And then the authentication servers go down. It happened on Xbox, it'll happen on Xbox 360, and eventually whatever the next one will be called will shut down it servers.

I have games for the Xbox that require an online Xbox live pass for a system that no longer has Xbox live. (Phantasy Star Online 1 & 2, MechAsssault, etc) These games are useless.